Okay, Okay, Okay, I know that we have been really discussing waste disposal in another thread.
Here are the three basic head set-ups that have been discussed in the thread:
1. Porta Potty.
2. Wag Bags and a bucket.
3. Marine Head
There are a few more options out there. One of them is a composting toilet.
Another hybrid idea is a MSD Porta Potty. This is a system where it is a porta potty but it can be set up for deck pump-out. Has anyone tried one of these here.
The last interesting set-up that I have seen is from the Seaward boats. They have a holding tank that you can remove and dump. This is a neat idea and it is a different version of a porta potty.
Small boats have limited room. What would be the idea set-up for your boat? Why do you think this? What other methods have you tried?
Here are my answers:
Currently I use a Porta Potty. I am on a Compac 23.
Other systems that I have tried would only be a marine head. I had one on my last boat and I like the set-up. My concerns with this on a Compac 23 is the loss of space due to a holding tank, adding 2 through hulls and a macerator, adding a deck fitting, and adding a vent. It would be expensive and a lot of work.
I would consider a Porta Potty with MSD. I am not sure if you can put a 5 gallon version of a MSD in a Compac 23 due to the height of the toilet. I am not sure how much room you would have in the area where the toilet is. You would have to add a deck pumpout and a vent. You could also add a macerator into this system, which would be nice if you get out of that range window where you can dump but that would require another through hull too.
I know that wag bags are really popular with a lot of sailors here. I just can't get into carrying around your poop in a bucket, even if it is sealed bags. I guess if it works for you, it works.
I was very clear about my preference for wag bags and the lightweight toilet made for them. See that post for review if need be. My reasons were clearly stated and based on significant experience with all three systems you mention. This is for a 23 with a cruising profile of two people going out for 1 to 5 days max.
I just can't get into carrying around your poop in a bucket, even if it is sealed bags.
Guess I have to ask if you are basing this on personal experience, that is you have used them before on a small sailboat or is it in your mind. I say again they win by so many landslides I can't count them.
Sealed bags, gelled up, in a sealed bucket no mess or odors at all. There was always a little odor with the PortaPotty with that waste sloshing around when you open to flush. On the bigger boats I've had I had a standard marine head with a holding tank. If I ever move back up to a larger boat and do longer cruises I will consider a composting head.
I'm done with the poop debate.:)
Brackish, it reminds me of my daily ritual with my dog! LOL.
Another thing is that I am so use to a marine head with a holding tank and I really liked that situation. Pumpouts are easy to come by where I sail.
Have you ever spilled the bucket? It would put a whole new twist on kicking the bucket.
I agree on your 1=5 day limit for a two person cruise on a Compac 23. When I single hand I maybe able to extend it further but my wife probably wouldn't do more than a night on the boat. I know that other people have done a lot more time on the boat but it definitely closes in as the cruise goes on.
I have never used wag bags. Maybe I am missing something here, but I just can't get over the whole bagging it idea.
Composting heads are another thing I don't really get. They claim that they don't really smell other than an "earthy" smell but you still have some pretty nasty maintenance when you clean out the peat moss or other item used in the composting toilet.
Honestly, there is not right answer in marine sanitation. Each has its drawback and each really doesn't have any huge advantage over the next. All require some form of maintenance and the maintenance is not fun.
Have you ever spilled the bucket? It would put a whole new twist on kicking the bucket.
Don't think you understand the concept of Wag bags. There is nothing to spill. Think a bucket of double sealed zip lock bags of solidified material. Even if you did, nothing would come out.
Now I did spill the holding tank on my Porta Potty one time while dumping it in a small land side toilet. The most disgusting experience I can remember in my sailing career.
Wait a minute, the last post was supposed to be the last. Well for sure this time.:)
I have not spilled the holding tank but I can imagine how bad that could be. I had a friend overfill his holding tank and the hose came off of it while he was sailing in heavy weather. It went into the bilge. I felt bad for him!
With space for storage and living aboard a small boat quite limited and at a premium, it does not make good sense to dedicate space for a toilet facility and holding tank (including porta potty) for very short periods of use in a given day.
I have been a fan of bucket (with custom home made seat) and Wag Bags for quite some time, BECAUSE THEY MAKE ABUNDANT GOOD SENSE on a small pocket cruiser.
On our 35' Sailboat and 36' Trawler my wife and I enjoyed our dedicated "bathroom" and enclosed shower with hot and cold running water. But that was back in our "big boat" cruising days and trips to the Bahamas. Small boats require a different mindset.
Remember, I'm the guy that removed the Porta Potty from its designed dedicated space on my Sun Cat and converted that space to a step-two drawer storage module. I'm quite pleased with the trade-off and gain of organized storage space on my small pocket cruiser.
capt_nemo
I had to replace my porta-potty a few years ago.I was able to fit the Dometic MSD with the 5gal holding tank in my cp23.There was an issue with the height.The cushion/cover needs to be modified.Since that cushion has been a shelf in my garage since I've owned the boat I haven't got to it yet,but it's doable.I have set up as a porta-potty now but can change over for any extended trips.My reason for that is if I wander into Canadian(Ontario)waters porta-pottys are illegal.I've been told it's a $1,200 fine but don't know how true that is.The drinking in public fine is $225 but don't ask how I know that. DougN
My old oday 23 had a good sized porto potti with a coupling on the tank for a deck pump out and on for a vent. You could carry the bottom out by detaching the hoses. The vent hose went outboard and even without a deck pumpout would be a nice addition to a regular portopott. Odor was a minimum. I am using wags on the 16 at present. But realistically can get to shore to address the daily download without that much trouble. We do this while bareboating too, not that big of a deal to run the dink in for for rolls, fresh bread, coffee and "whatever". I don't mind taking care of it backpacker style if the area is more remote.
Cleanwaste Go Anywhere Toilet with Wag Bags on my boat, CP 19 II.
www.cleanwaste.com
Fits nicely behind the companionway step. No sloshing.
V.
I use a 5 gallon port a potty from West Marine - not sure of the brand. I had to increase the height of the notch for the pull out valve but otherwise it fits fine in my 23. I spent the boat dollars to set up a deck pump out with vent. Best thing I ve done
The idea of hauling a full tank out of the boat sounds like a nasty accident ready to happen. The pump out works great - our marina has pumps out fittings every other slip. Since it is a do it yourself do do project I take the time to run 10 gallons of clean water through the system at each pump out.
We do not sleep in the vee berth - I have built a vanity with sink there and use the rest of the space for storage.
Here s the video if you want to see it - its actually about cutting an access panel but it shows the vanity well. http://youtu.be/qbeefxn05G4
As I used to be a professional Magician (no kidding!) I used the stuff that makes a wag bag work, Sodium Polyacrylate (SP), in one of my tricks (disappearing water).
I buy the same stuff to make my own Admiral's Wee Bags from kitchen trash bags (doubled) and ten grams of SP. Total cost ~ $0.50/bag & each bag will hold more than two quarts of fluid plus large amounts of solids.
I get the SP from Here: http://www.flinnsci.com/store/Scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=21703 (http://www.flinnsci.com/store/Scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=21703)
(http://www.flinnsci.com/store/catalogProductThumbnails/W0012catT.jpg)
Hope this helps, TG
I have used a porta potty and wag bags on a 16, and a marine head on my 23. There are obvious tradeoffs with each. With each system, at some point, you've got some disgusting work to do. On my 23 the original aluminum holding tank corroded through, filling the lockers with some (luckily just) pee and head-chemical laced water. New holding tank, hoses, rebuild the head while I'm at it. Disgusting work, but only gets done every 3-10 years or so (unless you get a clog). With the porta potty, you've got to dump it out and hose it down. Plus it will be sloshing around and smells like head chemicals. With wag bags there is no sloshing, no chemical smell, they likely do cost more per use (depends on how many times you use the head/porta potty and what the cost of a pump out is I guess). Also, there is something a little weird about pooping in a bucket of powder.
None of the options are great, but if you can't pump it over the side, I think a porta potty with pump out is probably the best compromise if you have the space, especially if women will be joining you. No hoses to get plugged, no valves, air gap fittings, inlet hoses or sea cocks. Given the space restrictions on a 16, I'm sticking with wag bags for solids and a jug with a good lid for liquids.
I don't know what all the fuss is about! On my CP16 there is plenty of room for a flush toilet, shower, sink, full bath, hot & cold running water, mirror, power vent, etc. No, I can't tell you what I'm smoking!
Marty K.
P.S. Almost forgot the most important accessory: a bidet!
Backing up to the first post in this thread: Doesn't a composting toilet use electricity for the fan? I briefly looked into this but if I remember right, the cost was the first red flag. The second is would my solar panel be enough to power the fan? I dunno.
I use a portapotti but it's kinda small. I like the idea of the pumpout option with the PP and that may be my next move. I'll be watching this thread until it takes a dump! :)
Bob23
Truth be told, a bag of kitty litter is the cheapest route. use the clumping kind, and you can use a screening scoop.
Meeoow.
TG. I'm done gonna watch my Pats blow out the Chargers.
I have a marine head with 11 gallon holding tank. I ordered the boat (CP23) from Com-pac that way. I modified the plumbing a bit. There used to be a Y valve with direct head to overboard option. That was very seldom useful (not much time spent 3 miles off shore, but some). I added a manual waste pump and rearranged the hoses to always pump the head into the tank but have the option to either visit the pump out or manually pump the tank overboard (when 3 miles out or more).
I have a photo of that somewhere ... (http://localweb.occnc.com/photos/2006/20060726-waste-pump/small-photo03.jpg) ... the pump handle is not as easy to use where it is, but that is the best mounting I could figure out.
Since then I haven't used the local pumpout at all. If I go out well beyond 3 miles I add salt water to the tank by way of the head and then pump the tank out. It doesn't take long. At the end of the season I put a large outside garbage can under the thru hull and pump out, then add water and put out again. I then hold my nose and bury the waste in the woods part of the yard. Hint: dig the hole in advance and get rid of the stench quickly.
Sailing and sleeping aboard for a bit under a week requires a visit to the pumpout (or in some places a call on the VHS and a visit from the pumpout boat). Some seasons where I've just done short day sails and didn't use the head much the tank lasts the whole season with no odor problem.
I don't think bringing a full porta-potty on a launch boat would be appreciated by the launch operator or others on the launch boat. On my home mooring, rowing in with a porta-potty seems like another unattractive solution. I often get on the launch boat with an empty cooler for groceries and its enough carrying that in empty and back with the groceries. I can't imaging a week or two on a boat with wag bags. Then again, not many CP sailors spend a week or two on their boat.
The marine head works for me.
Curtis
Lots of good info. It seems to me that much depends on the size of your boat and how you mostly use it. If you're sailing a 23 offshore, it makes sense to have a full-blown marine toilet. If you're an inland or coastal sailer, then I would think that a porta-potty would fill the bill. Smaller yachts, 19 & the 16 in particular, would probably be best served with wag-bags. Not that I'm looking forward to using the "head" (wag-bag) on my 16, but if nature insists, I could talk with more authority on the subject!
Marty K.
I am staying with the Porta-Potti. For a couple of days they are fine. I have never had an odor problem(use plenty of the blue stuff) and disposal is easy(empty into a toilet).
Lady Elk and myself spent four days over Labor Day weekend sailing our 19/2, never getting off the boat except to go swimming. We lived on the hook each night. We used a small porti-potti that the previous owner left with the boat and it worked fine with a less than five gallon capacity (I am not sure what it's total is as I haven't bothered to measure it yet). A good argument for the wag bags is made by B. Frank Franklin in his article in the latest Small Craft Advisor when he successfully used them for self-defense.
Elk River
Wow! This thread has really made it to the toilet! Interesting though, about wag-bags being used for self-defense. When I was in the Army, we were encouraged to use whatever was at hand (no pun!), with or without wag-bag, to defend ones-self. Sure beats being stuck by a bayonet.
Hesitatingly signed,
MKBLK