i need some input here (mainly from mattman). im figuring that to have an even race that we should start the 16s about 30 minutes before the larger faster boats. this may help the fleet to arrive at coles creek near the same time. it would also provide better photo ops when the boats come together. what are your thoughts (official race starter guy mike)?
But then the bigger boats won't have the pleasure of wallowing in an enormous victory over our little sisters! That's no fun!
Kidding. I was thinking let the 16's motor to catch up, but only as far as the boat ahead of them, and you must be inline or downwind of the boat in front of you if you use the motor. No leapfrogging or placing yourself in a more advantageous position than the guy in front of you. Perhaps must not exceed 5 boat lengths behind boat in front of you with motor. So all will have to outsail to pass yet we won't be miles apart.
Motoring not allowed for anything larger than 16 ft, well, unless the wind totally dies and the race called off.
Truthfully I am trying to avoid feeding mosquitos and tempering the crew's anxious spirits for the very long half an hour wait at the starting line. If someone else wants to start the smaller boats off at 9:30 or 9:45 and I'll start the others at 10:00 or 10:15, that will work.
Most races that want to have all the boats of different speeds finish at the same time use PHRF to adjust the start time. You have to know the length of the course in order to do that. You adjust the start time based on so many seconds per mile that is equal to the difference in the PHRF for each boat. The math is pretty easy. And in the CLR race case, the course can't be a one leg to weather because the actual miles traveled will be longer than the rhumb line. It needs to be a reach or a run.
I used to participate in a fun race that was about ten miles long from Gulfport to Biloxi, MS. There were usually about 60 boats doing the race. You were given your specific start time and the committee boat was just there to make sure you didn't cross early. The great thing about that kind of racing is there is a lot of traffic and overtaking in the last mile or so and that is when the water cannons were deployed.:)
Hey, it's the CLR, you can use the honor system for the start. Those big boat sailors can sit in the marina and have another cup of coffee waiting for their assigned time.
Wish I could be there.
Brackish has the way. Just completed a race like this yesterday, we could get the coordinates of the course off of gmaps or active captain, plug into gps then get the distance and assign starting times. Do you really think all the 16's would conspire to start early???? I don't think we have to monitor that closely:) btw it would be about 4-5 miles to coles creek which is the finish line right? that would only mean about an 10 minute headstart from the 23's, unless it is a windward leg... I think the phrf's are all based on how fast you are to a snipe?? I have to ask my skipper about that. Anyway......
i dont think that anyone is all that serious about the race (which starts in front of the dam and ends at the entrance to coles creek. the whole is to have the boats sailing together for a period of time to insure good photo opportunities and that we get to the coles creek raft up point near the same time. i really dont mind waiting the 25 minutes or so to let the 16s start early and the bugs wont be an issue in front of the dam. it gives the bigger boats a chance to "catch" the smaller ones. unless matt wants to do the math that is. i think we have 4 16s, one suncat, one eclipse, 4 19s. greenes oday and our catalina. and heaven forbid texas dougs sunbird
Whatever we do, lets be sure to keep it fun. The main goal being pictures and such since that day is the day that most are present. We do call it a race, and sure we all kid about it all afterward, but I suppose it is truly a organized sail off event.
Atleast that is what I hope all of you think while I carefully and meticulously build my new sails and study heartily the pinching methods and sail trim techniques as I sit in the dark lit only by a book light while my wife sleeps silently next to me........
Back to work for me on this mainsail!!! The race is so soon!!!! Not much time left to perfect the techniques!!!!!
Mac
ooooorrrrrr.....
we could all leave at the same time.
the greenes will no doubt be the 1st to enter coles creek so they will carry all the libations and have them ready to hand out as each boat arrives.
salty will be a close 2nd and will be there to take photo finishes.
kickinbug with his catalina will arrive 3rd and can start setting up lunch.
as for the rest of us, well that's where it gets interesting.
john will be somewhere other than coles creek thinking "man i left them all in my wake"!
mcgyver will start out fast, but will detour to help another sailor with a technical problem.
crazycarl will have to return to the marina to replace a deck chair he snagged off a dock with his bowsprit.
and the others will still be at the dam wondering when the 2nd horn will sound.
now that's a CLR race!
I was just bemoaning that I could not come to CLR this year due to multiple family obligations - and then I realized that CLR is the week AFTER my family's big events. I think I can make it for Saturday - just need to do a final check with everyone here.
will, you better make it if for no other reason than we can marvel at your new bowsprit. and you and kay ( i hope thats right) better make it for the dinner saturday night.
oh by the way, i did purchase a "nice" first place trophy befitting the event. now this will be a traveling trophy where this years winner takes it home and has his name engraved on it and then brings it back next year. like the stanley cup or the americas cup. it is way cool. a tasteful? addition to the decor of any sailors den
well i guess i should waste no time in planning clr 2115. next years event will be a monday through friday affair. this ensures that the lake will be all ours (and maybe we can get in a night sail). as everyone knows the saturday awards dinner will be a Jimmy Buffet theme (women just have to have "theme" parties). and thanks to my "trophy guy", you know who you are, we have some god awful trophies for 2115. im sure everyone has a closet, laundry room or out of the way basement bathroom that needs some added "class". yes and 2115 will be the first year for the "traveling trophy" for 1st place in the big clr cup race. It will be the winners responsiblity to have the trophy engraved with the year and either his name or the boats name. there is ample room for many (hopefully) years. this year sarah and i strayed away from com-pac, selling our 16 and buying a catalina capri 18. this opens up the rendezvous to trailerable boats other than com-pacs. i hope this wont keep future com-pac sailors away. clr does stand for carlyle lake rendezvous after all. anyway again thanks so much for those who attended and we hope to see you back next year. i have to go out in the garage and put some gear in the boat for tomorrow we sail. fairwinds steve and sarah (com-pacers at heart and god willin eclipse owners in the future)
We'll Kick, if our great-great-great grandkids are sailors they will certainly attend. I'm pretty sure B and I won't be sailing when we are 157 years old.
Mike and Grandma B
This is good. I've already figured out a way to use my cane as a spare tiller. And in anticipation for the CLR 2115, I'm bringing all my past AARP mags to read. Might also need my tricycle to ride to the campsite; don't know if I'll be able to balance on a two wheeler when I'm 162!
Bob23
2115 you say?
awesome, maybe by then they'll produce an outboard that runs on water and i'll have no problems!
i'll be 155 and maybe, just maybe, retired.
i should have all my joints replaced by then,
cc
ah, the infamous typo. well, i knew i could count on my sailing friends to point out one of the many errors of my ways. yes i did mean 2015. funny how age creeps up on a guy. thanks fellas. oh by the way, i am willing to pick up anyone who flies into st louis.
That is what good friends are for! Do you think they will still be making Bob's Pabst Blue Ribbon in 100 years?
It does make you wonder what a sailboat would look like in another century. Telescoping masts without any stays would be nice. Hydrogen powered auxiliaries. Lawn chairs mounted on the bow pulpit. Oh wait, Carl already has that.
Enjoy your fall sailing everyone.
Mike
Quote from: kickingbug1 on September 12, 2014, 10:10:38 AM
funny how age creeps up on a guy.
well, it's been creeping up on you for years, but some how you stay ahead.
cc
Kick:
I might just take you up on your offer. But I'd miss that 14 hour drive. Although it's a long way off, I figure if the Greene's could bring that disguise O'Pac 25, I could tow my little old CP 23 from NJ. What's a few more gas stops?
Age has been creeping up on me for quite some time. Just lately it got tired of waiting and ran on ahead!
Bob23
i think most of the previous clr attendees know that we plan on having it during the week sometime in july of next year. the lake is so quiet and nearly deserted during the week with only the occasional fisherman or sailor. jetskis are virtually non-existant. i figure that saturday or sunday would be a travel day for most clr sailors and that the meet and greet would be on tues or weds. this makes might also make launching and retrieval easier as well. i think the marina building would also be pretty much empty. the "big Race" would probably be on thursday. i know that it is a long way off but im thinking the last week of july. thanks again for all who attended this year and we hope you can come back next year----bring friends (not restricted to com-pac boats) and dress like jimmy buffet for the big awards (god awful trophies) dinner.-------also suggestions welcome
Wow!
Talk about planning ahead! I certainly plan on being there and may even tow the mighty Koinoina out there. Of course, the plans are all tentative- July 2015 is a long way off. The only thing that could throw a wrench in my plans is a schedule conflict with the Blackburn Challenge.
If anyone is reading this and did not attend, you owe it to yourself to be there.
Bob23
The 2015 CLR sounds good. Planning ahead for the middle of summer means people can plan vacations around it. If I may be so bold as to ask: how do you folks cover the cost of trophies? I realize that they are probably not exactly sterling silver 'yachting' trophies (but, then again, perhaps they are), but money is still being spent. I am not afraid to pony up some $, but am just curious (nothin' up ma sleeve...) as the HOTCR (don't ask, it's still a teaser) will be more than likely happening earlier than your CLR and I am just hoping to get some ideas.
Thanks,
Elk River
Brad:
As a recipient of one of the aforementioned trophies, I can attest that no expense was spared in the creation of them. I've insured mine for $5 million and that's conservative, I can assure you.
And, Brad, if we both show up with our boats, it'll be kind of a fresh water rematch, eh?
Bob23
Insurance, Bob??? I thought that some of your 'Lantic City boys would be all the insurance you would consider...
Rematch? 8 h.p. vs. 5 h.p. (not to mention all the food we carry); not much of a rematch, is it? Oh wait, didn't we win on interstellar corrected time? Perhaps I will build one of those dorys for a real rematch. AND, I am bringing my own potato chips. None of my jet-propelled brownies for you, plus, your rocket-fuel coffee will be monitored and watered down prior to the rowing race. Perhaps, also, I can blackmail you with those kazoo photos... Every little bit of an advantage on my end will be helpful.
lets just put it this way-----do you remember the old bowling trophies that your dad used to display around the house (circa late 50s early 60s)? well that is the "quality " you can expect. there will be a "travelling trophy" for first place in the big clr cup race. the winner is expected to have his name (or boat name) inscribed with the year. he then has to return the following year with said trophy (kind of like the america's cup-----only a little less so. as to planning early--i do know that some sailors have to put in for vacation in advance also this gives those who have already attended in the past to throw in some suggestions----dont worry this is not an event with lots of structure (and that wont change). so everyone, you have lots of time to think about coming. i wont post the actual dates until after christmas but im figuring the end of july. this will be a monday through friday (or whenever people have to hit the road) event. and bob is you do actually bring your 23, there will be a special award for you
Ha Ha!! Now THAT tells you all you need to know about CLR... The winner has to pay to have his name engraved on the travelling trophy! I wouldn't miss it!
Brad:
We could convoy the trip together- unless you drive as slow as you sail! :) And I do insure through my cover business located in Atlantic City- The Guido Sarducci Agency where their motto is "We've got you covered- literally!" As the rest of you can see, Mr. Elk and I are involved in a real rivalry on a few different fronts.
Steve: This is great. I don't see much of a problem towing the 23 out. Heck, this year it took me 22 hours- how much slower can it be with a 4000 pound load behind. True, the Tundra's aging a bit, but so am I! Along with the 23, I'll be bringing ample supplies of PBR, Tequila and Cape Cod potato chips!
Bob23
This folks, The banter and shenanigans, is top notch CLR at its finest!
I really hope others can schedule to join us all, it is seriously a good time and I think with the time frame Steve gives us, really helps to keep it open for catching it in the schedules ahead of time. My wife and I set this as our primary vacation, and plan anything else we do around it.
Where is Greene? I think Bob23 likes to have Rivalries at any events he attends, and I have to wonder, with Greene and Elk, how big a epic rivalry explosion we will incur!
Mac
I doubt that an aging, foreign, imitation pick-up truck, not to mention the almost over the hill driver, will be much of a match for a 6.6 L turbo-diesel. Perhaps we should swap boats & trailers for the convoy out there, or better yet, I'll bring my tow chain... I see that you are apparently STARTING OUT with an ample supply of liquid & chips. What remains to be seen is just how much actually makes it out to the Land of Lincoln. It would be better to send the liquid with the two non-drinking 'Elks', but then again, I don't want to be turned in for transporting liquor across state lines. My, my, will this never end?
The CLR sounds like a "must do" type of event. At this point, count us in. Thanks for the info about the solid silver trophies. I shan't mention the HOTCR again for a while; it will show up in the Spring (another "must do" event).
Elk River
Well, at least your TRUCK is faster than mine. :) I wonder if I should plan a different route considering that I'm towing a famous racing yacht.
Bob23
Either that, or plan on leaving immediately following the soon-to-be-famous HOTCR to make sure you get there in time...
Elk (non-argumentative) River
Looking forward to HOTCR...whatever it is, I'm sure it will be fun. Any tentative dates yet?
Bob23
ill have to check state statutes but i think in the land of larceny a rather helfty alcohol import tax must be paid (oh wait a minute you said PBR ---you can disregard).-------that doesnt qualify as something to be consumed by humans.------now jack daniels honey is fine
I can't argue with that. JD Honey on the dock at night after a fine day of sailing. My stomach still hurts from laughing at Carls stories!
Bob23
(I'll import the PBR from NJ)
bob, glad i could make you smile.
by the way, i'm compiling a book of our sailing exploits on our starwind 19, "sailing sur la mer, the misadventures of a knucklehead".
i'll have an autograph copy waiting for you during the book tour when it comes through new jersey.
cc
Wow! Cool...can't wait for the tour. I'll supply all the PBR necessary. Will this famous tour stop by South Jersey? Of course, you'll be subject to the book tour tax. If we don't have one, we will soon!
Bob23
Quote from: MacGyver on October 28, 2014, 07:51:21 PM
This folks, The banter and shenanigans, is top notch CLR at its finest!
Where is Greene? I think Bob23 likes to have Rivalries at any events he attends, and I have to wonder, with Greene and Elk, how big a epic rivalry explosion we will incur!
Mac
You may have noticed that Bob and I have been really nice and complimentary to each other recently. I have to say that we finally met in person at CLR 2014 and -
egads!- I actually liked the guy. I know, I know, he comes across all rough, tough and curmudgeonly, but in person he is almost a normal guy. As long as he keeps bringing me that Newfy's Screech Rum I might even refer to him as (boy this is hard to say) a friend.
(http://i613.photobucket.com/albums/tt211/greene2108/CLR%202014/IMG_20140802_120254_796.jpg)
Mike
i concur with mike.
bob is "instantly likable".
i'm not sure if it's his personality, or i feel sorry for him because he drinks PBR.
cc
Well, when one is looking for comic relief, look no further than the recent posts here at the site. I'm laughing my butt off as I read this!
Ok. I know you guys are secretly after my pink shirt, ain'tcha.
Mike: Maybe some therapy can help. Seems like your choice of friends is questionable. :) And I've got a brand new bottle of Newfy's with your name on it.
CC: "Instantly likeable?" The Admiral might take exception to that. But that's because she really knows me! And thanks for taking pity on my because of my choice of beers. I'm sure there's help for me out there somewhere...even if I have to drive to Illinois!
What's it gonna take to get you guys out East here someday? Bribery? Threats? Lies? Here in NJ, we offer all three!
In all seriousness, I was truly honored to meet you all out at CLR. It was the high point of my summer. Thanks for making this Joisey boy feel welcome.
HEY: Curmudgeonly...whatdaya mean by that!
Bob23...almost normal- nicest thing anyones said about me in a while.
it has come to my attention that some clr sailors were not happy with this past summers clr. any fault rests squarely with me. the "race" is not a serious event. the trophies were just for laughs. i know that there was some confusion with the raft up location. i dont know how that happened but next year i plan to print out information and maps for all participants . as to the dates for next year. my thinking about having the clr monday thru friday was to minimize boat traffic on the lake and to basically give us more freedom at the marina. i have found out in the past that you cant please everyone but i will post some date choices in the near future. anyone who has attended and has some input ---please contact me either here or e mail me at fordtruck52@yahoo. i can change anything but the weather.
Steve and Sarah go way above and beyond to make this a fun, interesting and wonderful event. The idea is to loosely organize some events to promote interactions among a bunch of great sailing folks. The "Race" is not intended to be a sanctioned or even a fair event. It is simply a way for attendees to compare their boats, trash talk, test their skills a little and most importantly have a great day sailing. If you are looking for this to become a serious race then you are going to be disappointed.
The dates are always going to be difficult to select. There is no way to meet everyone's schedule, so live with it. We hope everyone can make it every year, but we know this isn't possible.
We have attended most of the CLR's and have come away with great new friends, memories and stories. Based on all the laughter and merriment we witnessed this year we believe the vast majority of the attendees truly enjoyed themselves. We always look forward to the next CLR with great anticipation.
Personally we thank our good friends Steve and Sarah for all their efforts in promoting and hosting this FREE event.
Mike and Brenda
Steve:
Reading your post- I thought it was a joke! How in the world could anyone not have had a good, no great time at CLR 2014? It's inconceivable for me to believe that. My side is still hurting from laughing at the dock party. And I thank you for all the work you put into the event. I'm sure I have no idea how much effort is involved but I thank you sincerely! As a good friend of mine once told me: "Don't take life too seriously- you may not make it out alive!" Might want to make that a CLR mantra.
Whenever it is, it is at the top of my list to attend- even if I have to hitchhike out there. A 14 hour drive was nothing compared to the friends made, the laughs shared, the meals eaten together and the drinks imbibed. My only regret- was that I didn't pick up the tab for breakfast Sunday morning.
Again, thank you Steve and Sarah ( and everyone) who makes this a memorable event. Why anyone would not attend is beyond me!
Bottoms up!
Bob23
you know what? we have decided to have the clr on the dates previously posted (the 27th through the 31st of july monday through friday. for those who want to come before we will be available to help rig and launch and as always to have an impromtu dock party. we have found out in the past that not everyone will be able to attend on the dates specified but i know that during the week the lake is almost deserted as is the marina facility. this gives us more freedom both on the lake and off. the resteraunts , motels and campsites are also less crowded. im sorry if these dates dont suit everyone but all i can say is so be it. as to the event schedule, i am open to any and all suggestions that will increase the fun factor. although the race didnt go as smoothly as planned i still think it was fun. next year i think maybe Matt, if he attends might want to handle the race (he has gobs of race experience) but everyone should keep in mind the whole "race" thing is just for fun. i just want us all to finish the course as close together as possible and thus provide many great photo ops. the miscommunication about the raft up point was my fault, next year i will print up the "rules" and the agreed upon raft up and time frame. i did think that the location we ended up at was a great one. it wasnt my intention to make the clr a "overly structured" event rather a laid back deal. please, i repeat PLEASE send me any suggestions the you have. either here or at fordtruck52@yahoo thanks
Good choice Kickingbug1. I am a new Compac owner so I have never attended clr, but I will be there this year. The choice to have clr during the week when the lake is less crowded makes sense, and I hope everyone can adjust their plans to attend. Setting a firm date as soon as possible is the best plan. Thanks for all the effort you and your wife put into making this event happen. As for the race:
Man invented the slowest form of transportation - the sailboat - then decided to race them. - Philosopher Unknown
-Chris
thanks to all and hope to see you at this years event. my iron is hot so look out "bugs"
I am so happy the dates are set and not changing. I haven't had the opportunity to attend before as we take a week off around the 4th to be on our power yacht on Lake Michigan (please, no jokes that I go "both ways") and the CLR seemed to to closely follow or it landed on a week when I had commitments at the office. This year is perfect so (God willing) the Admiral and I are looking forward to hauling our HC down and meeting all of you that attend! Additionally, I concur that having the event during the week when the traffic is down and the marina is more "our own" is really quite brilliant! Thanks to those that take the personal time and effort to plan this event!
P.S. My wife Linda and I will be at the Strictly Sail (etc) Chicago show on Friday the 16th (again, less crowded) so we hope to run into some of you there.
The race was just for fun!? Crap.... I think the race is a time to sail somewhat competitively - if not it wouldn't be referred to as the "Race". There is certainly an air of competitiveness even if only in the sense oh humor as shown by crazycarl's ''race rig outboard'', or the La Man's start, or the water cannons, or the "I got off the line despite already drinking 3 PBR's! But it really does serve as great punctuation to a week long event. Seriously though, for those interested, we could talk about and demonstrate what works for each of us, sail side by side making adjustments, and even hop from boat to boat to get a feel for what is happening and to improve as skippers. I love sailing different boats and playing around to find what works for each. On the other side a "how you cruise event" would be really cool. Many of the CLR guys spend a lot of time on the hook, it would be great to hear and see what works for each skipper during extended time aboard their vessel. Techniques for perfect morning coffee, trip planning, navigation, boat handling, storage...you get the idea. Reading about it on the net is no substitute to seeing something in person, especially the end of day libation. Just some thoughts. Btw I appreciate all the effort Steve and Sarah put into the event, I had a great time, meeting great people, doing the greatest thing-sailing boats. See you on the water!
let's not change the date. i'll be submitting my 1st vacation choice next week, and once submitted, i cannot change it.
CC
I agree. For what it's worth.
B 23
I'm believe anyone how didn't have a good time at the CLR can only blame them selves, sorry but that's the way I see it. The race was just for FUN so maybe there should be no trophies if there is a problem with that part of it. It will take a national disaster or my wife to keep me away this year.
ROGER
For Ginger and I, it is the highlight of our year, and our primary vacation to be honest.
I know of a few instances of confusion as to the raft up swimming hole, and also the super long start time of the race, other than that, the only other bad part was when it all ended and I had to go back to work. The first 2 I listed is simple tweaks, but the last part, well, I have many years of work left so I am just kinda screwed there.......
The only thing that would keep us away from CLR is if this other guy buys the marina (long story) and hopefully that stays unlikely.
Mattman has mentioned a beer meeting sometime, so if that materializes let me know, I will do my best to make it. Between my new recovery efforts from my lightning, turning wood items, and work, I have kept busy enough to not work on my boat yet. :) Oh and Ginger has stuff for me to do, like finish a house project that has been in the works for like a year and is half finished..... oh well! You have to have a beer break with buddies ever so often guys! So let me know!
Mac -n- Ginger
I don't think you should eliminate the trophys. Mine is worth several hundred times what it cost and I've had to relocate it to a secret climate controlled vault. I've insured it through Lloyds of London...couldn't find a local insurer that could handle an item of such worth!
Mac: You can tell this other guy, that if he messes with the CLR 2015, I'll have my uncles pay him a visit. They'll make him an offer he can't refuse!
Bob23
The varnish was still wet on my trophy when I got home. It's stuck to the shelf where I set it. The one good thing about this is I don't have to worry about insurance, it is stuck to that shelf real good and no one will ever be able to move it.
ROGER
not to worry fellas, the trophies have already been obtained (and yes they will have plaques on them this year). all we need do it figure out what they will be for. to all who attended this past summer, i promise that the clr 2015 "cup" race will be sorted out and as always will be about fun . so please lets not be too serious ----ok. i will admit that i was having too much fun to even notice the problems. hindsight being 20 20, mistakes were made and will not be repeated. i have been told that the "clr news" kind of clogs up the site to i will pull back the reins a bit.
You are not clogging the web site!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!The info and posts are of great interest.............................nies
Wow, you guys got varnished trophies! Very nice!
The 2013 trophies seem dull in comparison, yet still thankful to receive it and proud to display it (thanks again kicknbug!). Looks nice sitting on the CPYOA burgee next to a CLR2010 stein.
(http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z290/yamaholic_mcarp/Island%20Time/BDF718CD-7249-4343-B596-1D50895D52DF_zpsgim0dcfe.jpg)
It's tough to read, but yes that says First Place in the CLR 2013 race. You can't beat a CP23 with a CP19 without trying at least a little. Not that this is a
serious race, because it's not, but it is interesting to see performance differences between these boats and put the boats through their paces against one another.
I don't know...I try to win but not going to cry about coming in last...sort of a "Casual yet competitive" attitude. It would tell me something about my skills or the way my boat is setup compared to other similar boats which is something most never get to experience.
As for the race I wasn't there last year but a simple PHRF race should theoretically get most to the finish on time and would be the fairest (and easy) way to run it.
Steve if you want me to Chair the race and make sure everything is planned I would be happy so. Just say the word.
While I don't officially race, you know the old saying: "If there are 2 or more sailboats on the water, there's a race".
I use a simple but proven technique which originated, so I'm told, here in NJ: Cheat! Lie! Cut off your opponents! And especially, pre-race bribery. Can't wait!
Bob23
check if these phrf numbers are correct cp16--335, suncat--318, catalina capri 18---288, cp19--280, oday25---225. i dont have numbers on the eclipse although i think its about the same as the catalina. also dont have number on the cp23 or horizon cat. matt probably has all that. mike you hit it on the head with your "race" definition. it cant help but be a little competitive. but it must be friendly.
Sounds like a lot of fun. Where will it be this year 2015. I'm new to Compac forum but love this cp16ll which is my second Compac. Thanks. James
made my 1st vacation pick today.
july 19th through august 3rd.
i'm hoping to sail the north channel with the trailer sailors association july 20th through the 24, then head home, pick up the mrs. and drive to CLR.
CC
james, same place carlyle lake in southern illinois (east of st louis)----carl, always know i can count on you. wish i could sail the north channel
i have been giving last years clr race a certain amount of thought and i may have an idea that might fix the problems that came up. obviously, the cp16s should not have had such a large head start. i think matt can help with the start times. second--the course. I'm thinking that is i don't race, i can leave the marina early and head north to a point east of the sailing association. when i get there i can anchor and my boat can become the windward mark. jason can still handle the "le mans" start and begin the countdown after i tell him I'm at anchor. the racers can race north, round my boat (great photo op by the way) and head southeast to the finish. last years raft up spot near south shore swimming area. i will provide maps of the course as well as the agreed on radio frequency and a list of the boats and cell phone numbers. this should prevent the confusion that occurred last year (again-my fault). i could also make a "windward marker" and anchor close by. although i don't think anyone would run into my anchored boat it might work better. let me know how this sounds (especially past clr sailors). again the race is just for laughs even though the "trophies" are priceless.
I like this idea, Kick. I don't know if I'll race my 23 or the Guideboat. Is there a handicap rating for rowing craft? :)
Bob23
make a deal on that 16 that jason has (or at least rent it) and show us all of that sailing expertise. i need all the schooling i can get.
Like the race ideas, kick. The PHRF start will make this pretty fair. You could potentially drop a fender in the water the afternoon before or the morning of with an anchor to mark the point, then you can participate in the race too. Your call, just tossing it out as an idea. Sounds like you have the start times, course and maps handled.
Thx as always for organizing this great event! Of course the race is only a small part of the fun at CLR, but seems to draw the most interest.
well, i think i have come up with a good race plan for this summers clr. had a few beers and some good food with carl and matt at the winery yesterday and we concluded that we would set up a square racecourse using two markers set east of the sailing association which would have to be rounded to port to the finish at last years raft up spot (the shallows near the southshore swimming area. sarah and i will not compete but will leave early that morning to set the markers. then we will anchor up nearby and take pics of the boats rounding the marks. matt will set start times for each boat and either mike c. or jason will handle the start. this should keep the fleet together and make for some great pictures (water canons will be permitted during the race). again, each boat will be given an information sheet including radio frequencies, cell phone numbers and maps. this should take eliminate any confusion. come on spring!!!
This is sounding highly organized. I like the water cannon idea. Is there a PHRF rating for an Adirondack Guideboat?
Bob23
Absolutely Bob, but since you are facing backwards you need to do the course starting at the finish line. Also, we will allow foot operated water cannons (for the first time) since you will be rowing at the same time.
Your ever helpful friend,
Mike
Mike:
You're too good to me! Rowing seems to come natural. Some say it works well with my backward personality. !Mean they what know don't I.
If I start at the finish line, will there be beer for me at the starting line, which will be my finish line? My, this is getting confusing.
32boB
Quote from: kickingbug1 on January 03, 2015, 04:40:34 PM
check if these phrf numbers are correct cp16--335, suncat--318, catalina capri 18---288, cp19--280, oday25---225. i dont have numbers on the eclipse although i think its about the same as the catalina. also dont have number on the cp23 or horizon cat. matt probably has all that. mike you hit it on the head with your "race" definition. it cant help but be a little competitive. but it must be friendly.
I missed this first time around. As I recall, before most of the Compacs were removed from the USSA PHRF listing the average rating for the 23 was 255. That would apply to all 23's that have not been modified in some way that would require a custom measurement and rating. For instance that rating would not apply to Bob23. His boat should rate about a 155, losing approximately 100 handicap points for certain factors. We all know, that if Bob is in the race, Guido, Rocco, Sal and Tony will be staged along the way in power boats, impeding the progress of the other sailors.
if bob has bobby from the supranos as a crew im for it. although i dont think he could carry enough "lunch" for the day
I hear you, Brackish. He comes across as this lovable fun-loving guy, but he keeps dropping hints about all the "connections" he has throughout the greater NJ area.
Don't forget Mikey, Jimmie, Bobby, Robby, Vinnie, and Joey. Why do they keep calling themselves little boys names anyway??
ElkRiver told me in confidence that Bob, and I need to reveal it now for transparency purposes and full disclosure, thinks but can't confirm he's concealing twin Kawasaki jet-ski engines within the keel. You ever noticed he's never launched his boat with his truck-avoiding paparazzi, and only uses a sling lift? And just won't give up that ol' two-stroke outboard? Loves the smell he says.
Hiding something. No one has seen the bottom of Koinonia but Bob and a guy that he gives beer to in exchange for launching his boat, and keeping quiet about Koinonias little secret.
Of course cheating is welcomed and encouraged at the CLR race. But no motors as allowed Bob...you got that??
As far as the CLR race PRHF corrections..we don't need no stinkin' corrections!!! :)
Salty:
I don't know how you found out about my secret. Perhaps I should give my marina guys (Vince and Vinnie) better beer than PBR! And I assumed that cheating was a requirement...not just allowed.
As far as my Kawasaki Keel, this is not true at all. I have installed, however, a Compac approved reverse osmosis wing keel power assist unit in the keel. I stress "Compac Approved" because after I installed it, no one objected!
Bob...let the madness continue
Here is the page I usually reference.
http://www.phrfne.org/page/handicapping/base_handicaps
mike (salty 19) had a good idea. since the race it kind of the climax of the clr he thought it would be better to have it on wed or thursday. with just sailing and raft ups in between. i do want everyone to be able to "compete for the clr cup". everyone let me know what you think. sarah and i are the committee boat so it doesnt matter to us.
hope this change isnt a big deal for anyone---if so let me know.
Kick, I think anything is ok. Just having the lake to ourselves and goofing off is fun enough... with some changes to my schedule this year I will in cruising mode most of the summer. Let me know if you want crew for the 18, I have appropriate beverages...M
What's this CLR Cup I'm hearing about? And, anything that the general populous at large agrees on, is fine with me. This is a fun event the emphasis being on fun!
Bob23
matt, i had rich crew for me on sunday and it was fantastic . we sailed from 1030 am to about 7pm and had dinner at the winery. sunday is my day to sail solo as sarah is praying for my immortal soul. company is always welcome give me a call and we will set something up or ill call you. i have your #.
It only takes Sarah one day? Not bad. I'd have thought at least a week! :)
shes a vestry member. guess she has some pull with the lord. im hoping at least
WOW!
Looks as if the race is becoming a serious competition!
If that's the case, i'm coming prepared this year.
Those who participated last year can attest that except for unforseen curcumstances, missadventures
would have easily crossed the finish line 1st.
Let's recap.
I was having trouble with the outboard from day 1.
That in it's self has become a CLR tradition since our 1st launch when steve displayed his monkey skills by hanging off the bow rail while i backed out of the ramp area.
Then steve lent me a weedwacker with a prop attached.
I had cut the "outboard" off while readying the boat for the start. My 1st mate needed a cool refreshment, and i being the obedient husband, went below to fetch a cold beverage. While below, we drifted a bit too close to the damn when steve noticed and immediately sounded the horn, indicating all engines off and raise sails.
With a start 1,000 to 3,000 yards behind the fleet, we quickly made up the distance with olympic handling of our sweet 19.
However, as fate would have it, just as we were in position to steal the wind and leave the fleet in our wake, we spotted a boat carrying no less than 400 young children in distress. (possibly refugees from vandalia) Well, i'm no expert, but i do believe there is a law of the sea that one does not ignore another boat in peril.
The boat was indeed in trouble. duct taping 2 clear highball glasses to my face, i slipped into the crawfish
infested waters and repaired the boat's hull with chewing gum and the skin of a flathead catfish i caught with my teeth just for the job at hand.
After seeing to the crew and passengers health and needs of water, i dispatched a smoke flare and a proper rescue ship intercepted said ship in peril.
So, athough we did finish the race, we arrived just in time for the others to reboard and make for port.
That's the way i recall the events of that fatefull day at CLR 2014.
But, this year will be different!
Both the nissan and the tohatsu had their impellers replaced, and new carberators are on order, to be installed by an authorized dealer.
And, I started the '66 chrysler 3hp long shaft o/b today with the 2 pull!
So i'll be bringing not 1!
not 2!
But 3 outboards at this years CLR!
CC
I'm also bringing really, really long oars, just to be prepared.
the "cruise and carry" 2.7 hp weedeater will be available for rental this year.
Worked on this today after I got the trailer lights working, it is always the ground isn't it...anyway here they are
"The Big Race 2015" -(announcer voice with reverb for effect)...
Length of course 4.8 nm
Start 38°37'24.38"N, 89°21'4.24"W
Mark 1 38°38'25.55"N, 89°20'3.34"W
Mark 2 38°37'39.45"N, 89°18'30.95"W
Finish 38°36'57.81"N, 89°20'10.22"W
Marks are rounded to starboard.
La Mans start with engine off and not making way.
At sound of horn make sail as you see fit, swig of PBR optional except for Bob and John.
Phrf's
Compac 16 326
Suncat 17 320
Compac 19 279
Compac 23 249
or start 16s 10:30 0:00 first start
start 2 suns 10:30:29 0:29 after first start
start 3 19s 10:33:46 3:46 after first start
start 4 23s 10:36:10 6:10 after first start
Ok, now go have fun out there!!!
Please review-hopefully there are no screw-ups, but I just spent 5 days logging 118 miles on the 16 so I am still a little punchy...
We plan on "racing" our Horizon Cat but can't find a true PHRF rating. It is based on the Herreshoff America and I did find a New England rating of 360. A Herreshoff 22 carries a 351 and a Herman 20 a 312. We are really just looking forward to finally being able to attend a CLR and meeting several past attendees and any other newcomers.
Bob & Linda Tudor
im guessing that an hc should be faster than a suncat and a 16-------only the mattman knows for sure. matt alan's branch is closed and everyone is using the high water ramps and csa moved the cats---its partially flooded. thanks for the race info it will work. although i think we might use the outboards until the first warning signal. and you will have to show me the marker locations on a map. whats a longitude? which way is up?
i will hand john written instructions on when to raise sails. hes a bugger. it will be fine everyone will get a map and race instructions. i will just make sure john reads his.
Kick I will give you my gps and then you can find where to put the marks as you would a fishing spot. I looked at the HC, 360 can't be close, 2500 lbs and 206 sq ft sail, I could see 260 if there was a typo but that seems a little fast given the 279 on the 19 at 2000 lbs and 200 sq ft sail. So I would think 300ish this is a tough one given I have never sailed a cat boat. Kick I made the rounds of the ramps on the bike yesterday, CSA looks like a mess. Hopefully things will settle down soon. I am off this week if you get bored.
Any phrf's for an Adirondack Guideboat under sail?
:)
matt, ill give you a call it the water goes down by sunday.
maybe we can sail the coarse and i can mark the spots with waypoints on my gps.
kick, that would be fine. I was thinking of putting in tomorrow if there is wind, did the water come up more???
matt, was that you i saw today?
it came up a lot more but they were letting out a lot at the dam. im sure they dont want to flood anymore farmland downstream than they have to.
sorry i got off topic with the "flood reports". to clarify the "big race" rules. we decided that racers could use their motors to keep in groups prior to the start and also to keep their boats into the wind when bending on sails. everyone please remember that this "race" is just for fun so lets try not to hit one another especially the catalina anchored near the windward mark. see everyone in a month.
matt, what's the phrf for an eclipse----im thinking about 288.
Would think it would be faster than the 19, but with no other info I would rate her at a 19. Man this is really subjective with no data and just eyeballing specs. However during the week we should put them side by side with known phrfs, that would give us a feel. btw this is why I hate to phrf race (for the most part) too many variables and someone always feels shorted on their number!
all we can do is get close.
the clr race course has now been established. the start line will be at the shallow water markers just west of the damn spillway (with the high water draft is not a problem). Sailors will race Northeast to the first mark, turn right and head Southeast to the 2nd mark, make a right turn around it and head Southwest to the finish line (our raft up spot for the week). Every boat will be provided with a map of the course. In order to have all boats finish the race pretty close together we will be using PHRF ratings to assign start times. I called Jerry Hutchins and he was unable to give me any PHRF numbers however i did find a few " CP16--326, Suncat--320, CP 19--279, CP23--249. I figure a Picnic Cat would be slightly faster than a Suncat given it is not a displacement hull. the Horizon Cat with its 20' length and larger sail should be a bit faster than a Suncat. Given this information the start will go as follows: the CP16 will be the slowest boat and will start first. all other start times are based on that of the CP 16. the Suncats will start next ,30 seconds after the 16s. Next is the Picnic Cat at 40 seconds after the 16. Then the Horizon Cat at 45 seconds after the 16. Next would be the CP 19s at 3 minutes and 40 seconds after the 16s and last would be the 23 at 6 minutes behind the 16s. Since we have no idea how this will play out, i think we should have a practice race on tuesday. On both days Sarah and I will set the markers and anchor nearby to take pictures and render assistance if needed. If it appears some of the start times are out of line we can make adjustments before the race on thursday. This will not be a crowded course so i do not foresee any mishaps but i would caution everyone to be aware of each other's boats. Again, the "race" is just for laughs. p.s. beware of water canon fire
first---suncats, 2nd horizon cat (plus 30 sec), 3rd-19s, eclipse and richs catalina 22 (3 minutes after the suncats), last cp23 (3 minutes after the 19s). practice race on tuesday to see if this works out. big race on thursday.
Think you're missing a couple of boats..16's and picnic cats.
I would think Horizon cats would be real close to 19's considering sail area, weight and waterline. HC's have a little more sail area sq/ft and longer waterline length but more weight. Certainly much quicker than 15 seconds/mile after a Suncat.
Maybe a starting grid like this would be useful for practice:
Picnic Cat
CP16
Suncat
Eclipse
Horizon Cat
CP19
C22
CP23
With Eclipse/Horizon Cat/CP19 with the same start time. Just thinking out loud...
the only number i could find that is close to the horizon cat is 320 for a herrshoff cat. the picnic cat is way faster than the cp16 which is 360. the picnic cat is not a displacement hull. i have sailed next to one in my catalina and they are pretty fast. i have 249 for the 23 and 279 for the 19. with 282 for a catalina 22 wing keel (what rich will be sailing). i have raced against luke and im a bit faster in my catalina 18 which is 288. this is why i wanted to have a practice race on tuesday and see how things shake out. if the fleet is too spread out at the finish we can tweak the start times accordingly.
i called com-pac and talked to gerry. surprisingly he didnt know any phrf numbers. you would think he would have been able to help. i was disappointed that i couldnt find phrf #s for the suncat, horizon cat and the eclipse.
Wow I guess I didn't realize the PC's are as fast as they are.
This should be interesting, great fun to compare them all.
Better than this epic race is of course the course the great people that come to CLR. Can't wait to see everyone, yet sad that Carl and Joan will not be attendance.
Steve, we all owe you a slug of grog for setting all this up!
thought popped into my head today. what does everyone think of having a second race at the clr. basically a warm up race with a prize for first place. the clr cup would still be awarded for the "big" race. thoughts?
As long as it's as much fun as the previous races, I'm all for it!!!!!! And I think the idea of a night sail is good, too.