I am trying to determine the limits of my COM PAC 23. How far can she safely heel when close hauled ?
As long as your wife is just screaming and hitting you, you can keep on going. When she curls up into the fetal position and starts sobbing, you have reached the limit and should stop.
Technically there is no limit, you can heel as far as you feel comfortable. Go out on a day with strong wind, put on your life jacket (and tether if you have one), put he drop boards in to keep water out of the cabin, put up too much sail, and try to capsize the boat, you won't be able to. In terms of the optimal angle of heel to maximize VMG, there is still some debate. With the stubby keel, my personal preference is to sail fairly flat if I'm trying to make progress upwind. If I'm just out to have fun, then I like to let her heel over until the rail hits the water.
IME the 23 goes to wind best relatively flat. Due to the short keel you need to keep her fairly flat to make the keel work the most efficiently. Around 5-10 degrees of heel is where I usually end up with everything feeling balanced. That is with a new main and foiled rudder.
In gusts and such the 23 will stiffen up at about 20 degrees. Heeling beyond that can be fun but your velocity made good will suffer. Too much drag on the rudder fighting the weather helm (esp. with the flat blade rudder) and you will be sliding to lee. Keep pushing it and eventually you will get to the point where the rudder will stall and the boat is going to head up.
Shawn
Quote from: Wes on June 25, 2014, 07:59:22 AM
As long as your wife is just screaming and hitting you, you can keep on going. When she curls up into the fetal position and starts sobbing, you have reached the limit and should stop.
LOL, that's the measure I use.:)
shes like a 16. she will go over pretty far near 30 degrees but i dont think anything short of a storm or a broaching wave will knock her down. i have never heard of one being knocked down anyway
I had my CP23 out a couple Saturdays ago on Lake Michigan. The wind and waves picked up expectantly and I was heeling 15 to 25 for the better part of 4 hours, with an occasional push towards the 30 on the inclinometer. The compac handled it fine... I was a bit nervous being as I had never taken those angles before in her and, I was soloing about 4 miles or so offshore. The CP 23 sailed very well. I did close up the hatches (and don't forget the portholes) just in case, but she never came close.
If interested, I wrote a LONGGGG post about this.
http://cpyoa.geekworkshosting.com/forum/index.php?topic=7586.0 (http://cpyoa.geekworkshosting.com/forum/index.php?topic=7586.0)
Tom
I have had the depth finder (out of the water - read out went blank) not sure what the degree of heel was - but I was puckered up - made me feel alive!
short keels got no reason to hee ee eeel (to the music of Short People). Bestspeed to wind on my 19 is 8-10 degrees of heel, but we have a flatter bottom.
I know many try to sail as flat as possible but we find the HideAway likes about 20-25 degrees. its stable and sure - maybe we have just grown accustomed to it. Here s an example
http://youtu.be/xjRpcUv376U
Thanks to all for your very helpful replies. I especially like, and will use, the "wife rule" (As long as your wife is just screaming and hitting you,...)
Quote from: Dick on June 25, 2014, 07:30:40 AM
I am trying to determine the limits of my COM PAC 23. How far can she safely heel when close hauled ?
Safely? Until water comes over the coaming. Not withstanding aforementioned wifey effects.
I've very briefly tried the water over the coaming thing and I don't recommend it as a general point of sail.
Realisticly you'll go a whole lot faster with less sail and a lot less heel. Well before the rail is in the water is fastest but not sure what the best angle is. Definitely more than 10 on the CP23. Might be in the 20 range. I used to think that more heel than that was faster (in the 25 range) but have since found that less sail was faster. No inclinometer so I'm guessing at angles. May also depend on wind speed and how your boat is set up - mainly jib or genoa size since a partially rolled headsail can have poor shape when rolled too far.
Curtis
I am going to try to put an inclinometer on my 23. It sails much differently than my old Slipper 17, which was light and flat bottomed. I just haven't been all that happy with the way I sail. Probably became a bit wimpy sailing in lakes, etc.
I have a jib, and a jenny. The jenny seems to foul against the bow pulpit, so I am thinking of putting a 1 foot or so line on the bottom of it to see if that clears it. Of course, that raises the forces at play.
I see most people use a 130-150 jenny; mine is about 130, so I can see how used to that I can get. The jib is about a 90%, cut way high though, so not sure it really is enough for balance.
Great video above of hideaway; really enjoyed that. It has been cold and rainy a lot here in NC, so I am looking forward to a chance to sail this weekend, when at least for a few hours each day, it should be 50+ degrees!
Here is the gauge that i have on my CP27. Had the same on my old CP16. Sticks on with the provided double sided tape, I have it on the aft lip of the companionway hatch.
http://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B00042K694/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o08_s02?ie=UTF8&psc=1 (http://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B00042K694/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o08_s02?ie=UTF8&psc=1)
Rick
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41A9EHOU5dL._SX425_.jpg)
That would work great! I think I have one laying around in one of my toolboxes. If I don't find it, I'll get something like the stickon one you posted. Thanks!
Save a hurricane she ain't gonna go over! As to the Admiral, ya gotta be realistic! LOL