Well, the time will be soon for the dreaded bottom paint maintenance.
For whatever reason, maybe it's the mess of paint all over, the fumes or the jacking up the boat off the trailer precariously swinging on 2x4's, I really loathe this job. I would rather break up concrete ballast with a sledgehammer and concrete breaker than paint the bottom.
My search for a hull levitation and painting genie has come up empty handed, and the Admiral ain't doing it; this really puts my in a pickle.
So being a friend that he is, Bob23 will waive his usual and customary $5,000 new member fee and instead, the next new member who agrees to the fee waiver, as well as demonstrating proficiency in bottom paint, shall get to work immediately on Island Time's derriere. Thanks for being so generous Bob. And you too new member, whoever you are.
Don't worry new member, whoever you are, the epoxy barrier coat is fine..only paint is needed. Three coats please. I already have the brushes and paint, but you'll need a mask and coverall, and of course a couple of cases of beer for me to drink while watching the work being done. Good beer, not the mass produced swill.
Seems like a REALLY good deal for you..whoever you are..you'll save thousands!
(http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z290/yamaholic_mcarp/Island%20Time/DSC01507.jpg)
buddy if you lived close by i would do the job for you. cost ---bottle of jacks tennessee honey
Salty:
I only hope that new members will realize what a deal they're getting. They should be lining up at your door by the hundreds. I'm glad to help...just doing my part to make the sailing world a better place.
Bob23
Great (or in this case, according to the Admiral, weak) minds think alike. I was pondering with dread this project, scheduled for next month and considering ways to avoid it. It did occur to me that Bob had offered to waive the new member charge for certain skilled labor exploits. So I get the next new member after Salty's job is done. I also have the paint, rollers, brushes, jacks, and other accessories. I'm not picky about the beer, Victory Golden Monkey would do fine.
(http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af200/brackish_photos/paintingArion002.jpg)
Brackish,
I realize this is posting on an older thread, but there have been an awful lot of new members lately that have yet to pay their $5000 site membership fee to Bob23.
He seems to be slacking off, what with 1265 members that's close to $6.3M right there. Probably basking in the Cayman sun sipping pain killers as we speak, not worrying too much about the fees or the promises, well, assurances anyway that he would waive fees for new members to do work on seasoned guys boats. Interests and dividends alone more than cover his imported beer (PBR of course), Pussers Rum and Cabana Girl fees I suspect so he simply doesn't care about us anymore.
Clearly you are impacted too being next in line for assistance. Frankly, you should demand satisfaction! I emailed Bob about it already suggesting he has bailed on the promise, but couldn't understand his reply. It sorta read like a cross of dialects between Jack Sparrow, W.C. Fields and the gangster in Bugs Bunny (you see??), as well as a hint of Juan Valdez from Folgers coffee, so I really couldn't tell if he agreed or not. Probably drunk on rum again.
Bob23, if you are out there...we are on to you, bro. Better get these new members over to Brackishs' place immediately!
The only other decision to be made is calls dibbs after Brackish?
:) :) :) :)
What? I can't hear you...the music is so loud here on the beach. "Carmalitta- another Dark and Stormy for all my friends- on the house!"
I'm sorry, what were you saying again? Don't think for a minute that I've forgotten my friends. Just like the IRS, I may seem to have forgotten, but I'll always show up to collect!
Brack: Just had my first Golden Monkey last week. Yummm. I'll bring 'em out to CLR for those non PBR guys. Do you mean that the new members have not shown up yet? That's the last straw. I hope I don't need to send out my uncles Danny, Vito and Guido to, ahem, straighten things out a bit.
And Salty, just for your information, I'm not basking in the Caymans: I bought 'em with the proceeds from the initiation fees. Feel free to fly on down and just check into any hotel you like- tell 'em to put it on my tab. Have a great time on me! Just trying to spread the wealth around.
Bob23
Despite responding to an old post it is quite timely. You see, I dread the project so much I postponed. Arion sits in the water with three year old bottom paint and an ever growing length of scuz on the bottom. And not one new member has shown up to correct the situation.
Bob, I think it is the picture of the Wise Guys in the Walker Bay. I think the jig is up. What we need now is not a vacation in the tropics but a complete image makeover to put the fear back into the initiates.:)
Somehow I knew this was the right time to bring this topic back up! Timely, indeed.
So I just approved a new member named: "Big Dreams". I feel it's only appropriate to insist on a Big Dream Trip to Mississippi, don't you think? :)
I mean, he's going to be saving quite a few bucks in the deal, so...
Bob, thank you for your generosity to the new member and Brackish for the fee-labor swap. Really nice of you, and you are making the world a better place, one paint job at a time. And wow, really we can come down anytime and just act like we own the place because we're such good buddies!?!?! The Admiral and I can't thank you enough.
Do you own the stingrays too?
This is the last known photo of the Walker Bay, yet no Wise Guys. Hmmm..
(http://i1378.photobucket.com/albums/ah86/mrtnkern/BBB-2012/100_0240_zps6478f2ff.jpg)
You guys are killing me! What better way to start the day than laughing out loud? That is indeed a rare photo- I've never seen it before. Did you obtain this from the NSA? thought so. This is very pre Blackburn Challenge.
Notice the stunning physique and the incision on my left shoulder where the doc went in and made a bad rotator cuff right! Thank you Dr. Pepe!
Whatever happened to "What happens on the CPYOA stays on the CPYOA"?
Bob23
That's Bob, always dippin' his painter in the water!
TG
When you guys do your bottom, could you take photographs of how you jack the boat up on the trailer? I need to see how to do this because I will do mine this spring.
How do you get the bottom of the keel?
I wish I had a few jackstands to help me. It would be nice to put the jackstands on the side and then drop the bunk. Then do the same for the other side. Problem is that it still doesn't give me access to the bottom of the keel.
There is always the thought of having it hauled but that is expensive. Maybe a short haul to paint the bunks and the bottom of the keel and then set her back down on the trailer when the paint is pretty much dry.
Well, too late for pics me, I painted in the spring.
The operation isn't that hard really but takes a little foresight.
I use two scissor jacks with a scrap piece of ply under them for stability and two pieces of 2x4's on top-as long as the hull is wide- between jack and hull. I used a router to remove some of the 2x4 so the bottom piece "sits" in the metal area on top of the jack to stabilize them. Two boards seem to work for me to give the right height as the scissor jacks only raise so far. You could use a floor jack, and I have used one before, but it's super heavy and tough to get positioned--also since it's hydraulic it has a tendency to creep down a little bit if under pressure for a while (which will be the case here).
With the jacks ready to raise--meaning centered under the keel between the rollers and leveled, and the "guide" bunks next the rollers removed (and bow line loosened), I loosely tie a line from side cleat to the trailer on each side. Then I begin to jack up each one a little at a time...an inch forward, then move aft and raise an inch. I do this until the boat has raised up 5 or so inches...enough for the paint roller. I use a portable drill to speed it up...the rod that is used to crank the jack fits into the chuck. I just operate the drill the operate the jack. Then I tied the lines tight to stabilize the boat once in the air and remove the hull bunk boards, and lower the bunk stanchions. Then slightly tighten the bow line..not too much, don't let it rock off the jacks, just enough to stabilize the boat.
If the jack is straining to lift the boat, check tightness of your bow and side lines..do not force the jack. You might hear a little creaking from the fiberglass that is normal.
Also be sure your jack has a rating equal to 100% of your boat weight or more (with two jacks, that gives a nice safety cushion).
Now it's ready to clean, prep and paint. Go ahead and paint the underside of the entire keel except right under the jacks of course.
You will not be able to paint under the jacks at this point, but that's OK for now. Once you are done with all surfaces you can paint-all the coats are on and the paint is dry, just lower it back on the rollers, replace the hull bunks, remove lines, tighten bow line and paint of the area where the jacks used to be. I had pre-cleaned this area before jacking it up so I didn't have to break out the hose to clean it as the paint will still be wet in other areas. Just wiped it with solvent and a rag, then painted the two under-jack areas. Then once you are done painting, reinstall the glide bunks next to the rollers. This extends the project time as you are waiting for paint to dry several times, but works fine.
I left my CP19 up in the air using this method for several days while painting--no problems just keep the lines tight once raised off the rollers.
You could also do it reverse...paint the boat while on the rollers then jack up to paint under the rollers, but I kinda like to raise it up to paint the whole thing. Less neck and back strain. I can clean it better too.
If you don't have rollers but instead a solid board, these instructions won't work. There was another thread about it somewhere?
I used a slight variations on the method Salty 19 described above. I removed my keel guides and prepped and painted everything I could get too, including the bottom of the keel between the rollers. I then put two jacks under the keel, fore and aft with a 2 x 10 piece cut to fit between the rollers and roller supports and lifted the boat. I used two trailer leveling scissor jacks of the appropriate capacity lifted it up about four inches and prepped and painted under the bunks and the part of the keel that had been in contact with the rollers. If you are perfectly level it will go straight up, if not it may rest on one bunk (that was my case, my drive way has a fairly good cross drainage slant) so you guy it to the trailer one side at a time and do it that way.
If Bob23 doesn't send an indentured servant initiate my way, I'll probably do it this Spring, will take pictures.
Well, I sorta cheat when bottom painting, which should come as no surprise. First off, I use a latex based paint- Interlux Aqua which dries pretty darned quick. Then, when the boat is hanging in the travelift, I'll paint the keel bottom and the areas where the trailer pads touch. Really easy and it only costs me a case of beer.
Bob23
Hey guys (and Admirals), what are you using for bottom paint for trailoring? My experience has been with large Catalinas (34 & 36') so used VC17. Would like some recommendations for my Horizon Cat. I keep it in a slip (fresh/dirty water of Illinois River) but do trailor as well. Recommendations would be appreciated!
I was sitting there and thinking of boat stuff (I do this way too much) and it dawned on me....Why not block the boat at the trailer level. I would love to have 4 jackstands to do this and then put something under the keel where you can access it. Once that is done, let the air out of the tires on the trailer. BOOM! boat is off of the trailer enough to paint. When you are done put air back in the tires.
Anyone think that this will work?
Where would the weight be supported? By the bottom of the boat? Not too sure about that...I'd call Rich or Gerry at Compac about that. Not saying it wouldn't work; But by nature, I tend to analyze and troubleshoot ideas before they are implemented trying to find weak points in the plan. Easier than having to explain why you have holes in the bottom of your boat or why you need to have it picked up off the driveway while it's lying on it's side.
Salty's idea is good. But the 19's are a thousand pounds lighter and have a flatter bottom. Therein lies the advantage of the 19 over a 23.
A while back, I was devising (in my mind, at least) a method of building a temporary "lift" of 6x6's, braced for and aft as well as laterally. A system of webbing would be run on block and tackles to simulate the way a travel lift works. It all looked really good on paper (it's amazing how light that boat is on paper) and I'd just lift the boat off the trailer, do the prep and paint, and just lower her down.
Then the other day, while driving by a small local marina, what didst I see? The same thing, but made of steel. Think travel lift that does not travel. So I think it would work, but it'd be a bit of an engineering feat, you'd have to assemble/disassemble/store the thing. Easier for me to buy the case of beer for the marina guys for the use of the travel lift.
Let me know what you come up with,
Bob23
Bob....You would need to disperse the weight between 4 jackstands or something similar and then something to brace the bottom of the keel.
The travel lift wouldn't be a bad thing if you just had to do a short haul to get the bunks and the bottom of the keel. It would probably be the easiest thing.
Hrm.......I wonder what the price of a short haul is these days.
I used this method when I owned a Catalina 22 swing keel. I released the keel winch so the keel would stay cradled with it's weight remaining on the trailer. Using twinned pairs of 2x6s on edge shaped and padded to the hull fore and aft supported by stacked 12" concrete blocks at each side close to the trailer, I then let the air out of the tires after blocking them to keep them from rolling. Done deal.
Here is what I do for painting my hull with my boat on its trailer. (My trailer has adjustable bunks.) First I remove the trailer keel guides.
I work 1/2 of the hull at a time. To paint the starboard side, I first secure the boat to the trailer on the port side. I tie lines from the winch and cleat on the starboard side of the cockpit, over the cockpit and down to the trailer on the port side. I tie a line from my bow cleat to the trailer's port side. These lines will prevent the boat from tipping toward starboard when I get to the next step..
I then lower the bunk on the starboard side. This is done by loosening the bunk adjustment bolts. This gives me plenty of room to sand and paint the hull.
Lifting the bunk back into place takes a bit more effort. I need to use a bottle jack to raise the bunk to the correct position. I know I've got it right when I have the bunk tight against and conforming to the shape of the hull.
As for painting the bottom of the keel, I first block up the back end of the trailer. You can see the blocks I use under the center of the trailer at the bar light. I then adjust tension on my bow tie down strap. I want it loose enough so that the bow is able to lift a bit as I jack up the boat, but not too loose that the boat will slide backward on the trailer. I then just use my bottle jack to lift the front end of the keel off the trailer rollers. It is easy enough to get enough space to scrape off any growth and repaint. I then position the jack at the back of the keel to take care of business there.
Hopefully the photos come through. If not I'll try again.
Marc
Marc,
That is the exact method I used to restore the bottom of my 19. After repairing multiple blisters I applied three coats (because I had enough paint for three) of epoxy barrier paint then two coats of hard copper bottom paint. My boat lives in fresh water year round.
I do have to say my arms fell off several times requiring a couple of days reattachment 12oz curls therapy.
TG
I feel terrible......I use the marina free winter yard storage if they get to paint! Not even sure what kinda paint, other than ablative and it works for a season well. Thinking bout skiing! It's winter. :)
Interesting and simple, Marc. I may try it next year but the method I use works as well. On the note of bottom paint, upon hauling out the boat last Sunday, what did appear? Not one barnacle, that's what. the 2 coats of Interlux Aqua really worked great. In years past, I'd have some growth but this year...only slime. I thought the boat felt faster this summer and this could be part of the explanation. Or it could be my superior captaining skills! Nah...it's the paint.
Marc, did you build that custom stern rail?
Bob23
Hi Bob,
I use Pettit Hydrocoat. Usually I'll have about a dozen scattered barnacles on the hull. My bigger problem are the barnacles that set up shop on the aluminum of my rudder. I have a Rudder Craft rudder with a plastic blade hung on an aluminum shank. I keep my rudder in the water since I'm in a busy mooring field and I don't want to risk a passing or drifting boat bumping into it. I paint the foil but not the aluminum shank since I do not want to create a corrosion problem with the aluminum reacting with the copper in the bottom paint. That little bit of unprotected aluminum gets a lot of barnacles. Periodically during the season I'll reach over the transom and try to scrape them off with a putty knife. Works somewhat but by the end of the season it's a real mess.
As far as the stern rail goes, I believe it came that way from the factory. The stern seats really need to be deeper to be comfortable, but they are still very fun. I'll sit on the windward seat with a foot on the tiller. The best advantage though is it is easy to board the boat from the ladder. No need to step over the rail to get into the cockpit.
Quote from: Mas on December 05, 2016, 09:56:56 PM
I feel terrible......I use the marina free winter yard storage if they get to paint! Not even sure what kinda paint, other than ablative and it works for a season well. Thinking bout skiing! It's winter. :)
Well disclosure time, the above method is used cuz the boat that gets painted can't be placed on a trailer, and we haul every year. I didn't want to pay storage fees and the free storage if they paint was too hard to pass up (painting anything is not one of my favorite tasks, would rather dig a ditch!). Our little Compac 16 however lives on her trailer and we dry sail her so her bottom is as shiny and paint free as the day she was born 30 years ago. For those who do paint, I have seen somewhere an accessory for the trailers that essentially is a jack system that can be used to lift the boat off of the bunk boards. Am afraid i know little else about that system other than i saw one once, somewhere. Maybe Google it.
The brownell system to lift boats off trailers would likely work with a little adjusting for a sailboat hull, but it is expensive nearly $1000.00
https://www.jamestowndistributors.com/userportal/show_product.do?pid=59042&familyName=JD+Boat+Lift+System
Marc: I used to use Hydrocoat and it performed well until one year when it didn't. Then I heard through the grapevine that Pettit had changed the formula. When I asked the Pettit guy at the Maine Boatbuilders Show about this, he never gave me a straight answer but rather squirmed a bit.
Since switching to Aqua, I've had no problems and this year my boat was in for a longer time than usual.
Bob23
Bob,
After reading your post I started looking into Aqua to see whether it can be applied directly over Hydrocoat, ease of application, etc.. Didn't pursue that for long though once I remembered I bought a gallon of Hydrocoat this past spring. I have enough left in the can to last me through the 2019 season. Anything I read now I'm bound to forget by the time I need the info. :)
Marc
I can tell that cabin fever as set in and we have at least 3+months of hibernation remaining!
This may be something to mull over for someone to research this winter; I read where the chemical C8 by DuPont actually is no longer being produced, as I understood it from reading a fresh article in our local paper." C8 " is basically Teflon as we know it. Question; since that is a main ingredient of VC-17, ( is it not?) how much longer will it VC-17 be produced ? It is my understanding also that VC would have to be stripped before any other " anti-fouling" paint be applied. That would be fun!
Only did that once, had 30 years worth of ablative paint on an Ericson removed by bead blast. According to West, shelf live for VC is three years... Well, I already have ablative on my CP-19, but it looks like the water based products will be, or perhaps are, the future.