Monday on the way back to New Bern from Oriental, I was motoring with a reefed main when the motor quit just past Minnesott. Sailed back to the Galley Marina with reefed main. I tried to start the engine and it would start but only run for several seconds. The fuel pump was not running at its usual rate. In trouble shooting at the dock, removing the fuel line at the pump I could blow air back into the tank. However the pump would not push any fuel through the pump outlet.
Solution replace the fuel pump.
The fuel system was arranged: fuel tank, fuel pump, 3 micron Racor filter, secondary 2 or 3 micron filter on the engine.
Bought a Facet fuel pump late yesterday like the one that was installed. The mechanic that sold me the new pump showed me that the bottom of the pump can be removed uncovering a screen on the intake side of the pump. It was pretty cruddy on the old pump. He also thought that the Racor filter should be between the tank and the pump.
Thankfully called Keith Scott this morning to get his he insight into the problem.
He agreed that the system should be: fuel tank, 30 micron Racor filter, fuel pump, secondary 2 or 3 micron filter on the engine. He also recalled that there was a screen 'inside' the pick up pipe in the fuel tank.
Re plumbed the fuel system, as both Keith and the mechanic recommended, and switched out the 3 micron Racor filter for a 30 micron. However, no matter what I tried, to include a mouthful of diesel, I could not get fuel through the pump. As a last resort I pulled the intake assembly out of the tank. Sure enough the entire pipe was plugged with sludge. I could blow bubbles in the tank through the screen and sludge, but fuel would absolutely not flow through the screen. Removed the screen, cleaned up the pipe, installed the Racor filter pre-filled, and bled the system at the block.
The engine ran for 15 minutes. End of problem. (so far)
Keith Scott, said that Hutchins discontinued installing the screen in the intake pipe. Without his description I would never have guessed that there was s screen at the top of the intake pipe just before the 'L' fitting. I removed the screen in the intake pipe. The screen on the bottom of the Facet fuel pump should be on the yearly preventative maintenance list. Keith did not think that this was the stock fuel pump.
Hope this note helps someone out.
regards charlie
Facet fuel pump
[URL=http://s1373.photobucket.com/user/deisher6/media/100_3361_zps7f1330e6.jpg.html](http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag383/deisher6/100_3361_zps7f1330e6.jpg) (http://s1373.photobucket.com/user/deisher6/media/100_3360_zps15cc70e9.jpg.html)
(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag383/deisher6/100_3360_zps15cc70e9.jpg) (http://s1373.photobucket.com/user/deisher6/media/100_3360_zps15cc70e9.jpg.html)
The screen from the tank intake pipe
http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag383/deisher6/100_3360_zps15cc70e9.jpg
Charlie,
Thanks for the heads up on the fuel screens. I will look at both of mine this weekend and make sure they are clean.
Good Sailing,
Bob
I ran into this on a boat a few years back....... And completely agree with moving that racor filter.
It is amazing what builders do, and the different ways they do them. Minus that tube filter and the racor being prior to the pump will catch all the crap. Then during yearly maintenance, you replace that filter, and all is clear, all the time.
Glad it all worked out.
Mac
Charlie:
Excellent information. Changing to the 30 micron Racor will help fuel flow immensely and, as I understand, may prevent the early demise of the fuel pump. Also, all that crud in the intake screen may be symptomatic of an algae problem in the tank. Maybe you have fuel "polishing" in mind already but, if not, it would be worth checking the deep corners of the tank for more crud. If there's more in there, the problem will arise again one day. (And yes, you detect the proverbial voice of experience.)
Thanks for your comments.
When I purchased the boat this summer I drained the tank and filled up with fresh fuel with standard additives. I think that the crud in the fuel tank intake pipe has been collecting since 1986.
I moved the boat to my marina slip this morning. Everything worked well....until at idle tied up in the home slip the engine died...a quick check showed that the fuel pump was not working. I now have something to do tomorrow.
Older boats are interesting.
regards charlie
Charlie - very helpful and cautionary post. Thanks! My Racor is installed between tank and pump, which appears to be the factory configuration. Wonder if a PO modified yours? I was already planning to pull the fuel tank and give it a big time cleaning while the boat is in the yard. Now I'm even more determined.
That Keith Scott is a remarkable resource.
Wes
I see your inspector was on the job.
More on fuel systems.
Ran the motor about 20 minutes as we moved to our regular slip, have to have power to get through the drawbridge. Tied up in the slip and the motor stopped. The pump stopped running. Checked voltage and had 12.7 v at the pump. While tracing the hot wire, jiggled something and the pump came on line. Not trusting jiggling as a permanent solution, I replaced several spade connections and a section of suspect wiring. I suspect that although there was enough voltage at the pump there was not enough amperage...possibly a bad connection or partly broken wire.
Sunday headed to Oriental. Decided to motor sail since the wind was dead ahead and I wanted to test the engine for at least an hour. Engine quit after about 45 minutes. Pump was still running. Re-primed engine and it started but did not run very long.
It was a downwind run back to the marina that I used the previous week, so headed back to New Bern. While I was enjoying the gentle breeze and contemplating the engine situation I was not paying attention to markers. Ran gently aground. Could not jibe and sail off so dropped sails and tried to pole off with the whisker pole. That didn't work either. Having plenty of time and great weather and the grounding not getting any worse, turned attention to the fuel system.
Tried to bleed the air from the fuel line. It would not purge at the engine filter tap, even with the bolt entirely removed. Took off the racor filter, it was filled with fuel the consistency and color of black snot. Changed that filter and the primary fuel filter, bled the system. Engine started and I powered off the bottom.
Thought that the engine would probably run for 15-30 minutes with just the fuel in the filter. So shut off the engine sailed to bridge and motored through to our regular slip. This saved a extra marina fees, I was happy to tie up.
Monday, pumped the fuel out of the tank. It was very dark in color, could not tell the consistency after it ran though a pump hooked up to a drill. (The out put hose did come off during the fuel transfer, but that is another story). There there was sludge left on the bottom of the tank and the sides appeared to be slimy also. Having enough of fuel problems at that time, and smelling very much like diesel, decided to pull the tank and get it cleaned. Tank removal is pretty easy, four screws. A long phillips extension for a small power screwdriver is helpful. There is plenty of room for 6ft 2in, 108Kg of me to work. Much easier than working on the stuffing box.
A mechanic at a local marina/salvage yard said that the correct way to clean the tank would be to cut a port in the top, clean it by hand then tap and screw a plate to cover the hole. Cost would be close to a new tank. We talked about plastic tanks. I was thinking about having to re plumb the connections unless the new tank was a match to the old. The mechanic then said "if it was his tank" he would empty it, then rinse it with full strength muratic acid.
(In an environmentally responsible way.) I rinsed out the tank three times, sloshing the acid and letting it sit on each of five sides equal time. Used about a quart of acid each time and filled the tank to overflowing with water for several minutes to rinse the tank out each time. The acid heated up the tank, so I was careful not to let is sit in any place for very long. I dried the tank by sticking a heat gun in the fuel gauge opening and letting it run until the tank was hot to touch. As much of the tank that I could see with a small flashlight was very clean.
Re-installed the tank this morning. It snowed about two inches while I was doing this, so I have not filled it up. It looks as if there might e a good weather window Friday through Sunday.
Thinking about it I may pressure check the tank before I fill it. I noted that it was mfg. in 1985 and tested to 3 lb..
I think electrical problems may be my next challenge. A buddy mentioned that me smelling of diesel is better than 'other' smells that I or out dog emanate from time to time.
I will post any more unusual fuel stuff if it happens.
regards charlie
Hey, Charlie! This all sounds so familiar. With an S-2 8.0 years ago, I pulled the tank and put in a new one. With the CP27, this happened one July morning on the way up to Maine. I was in Huntington Harbor, Long Island. The bowl of the Racor had lots of black sludge so I pulled the filter (it's the spin off type) and it was black! I'd picked up some bad fuel somewhere between Virginia and LI. With a new primary (Racor), and after changing the secondary filter, then bleeding the lines, she fired and ran fine. But...each morning before getting underway, I'd drain the bowl to make sure it was clean. Usually, here's what I got:
http://s1125.photobucket.com/user/CPYOA/media/IMG_0308.jpg.html?state=replace
Sometimes, the first pull would include a big yellow-orange glop of water floating on the pink. Drain it into a canister, wipe out the cup, do it 2 or 3 more times and the fuel would clear up. The Racor was changed every couple of weeks, too, just to be sure. Since then, checking the fuel this way has become part of the pre-start routine before we get underway.
I plan to call "KleenFuel" this spring to clear whatever junk remains in the tank. Your approach is much more thorough. I would think you'd be fine from here on but I still recommend everybody make a regular check of the Racor.
The black viscous material that was in your tank is actually an algae that grows in diesel fuel. Most often in fuel in warm climates that has some water in it from rain or condensation. When it grows in your tank it goes through the fuel lines and clogs all screens and filters. It will live in your fuel lines and re-contaminate your fuel tank even after your thorough cleaning. You need to add an algae killer to your fuel tank to take care of what is in the rest of the fuel system. It is a good idea to add this as a preventative maintenance item even if you don't currently have the symptoms. I purchase mine at truck stops. You can google algae in diesel fuel to reseach this further.
Roger, all of Bob's info. BioBor is the algicide I've been using for years; available at marine stores. Never had a problem 'til taking on bad fuel somewhere on that trip up the coast.
A bit late to the dance, but what size fuel tank are we talking about?
Now that it's clean, leave it empty until you need more than three gallons of fuel (read extended cruise).
Install an additional "day tank" in the three gallon size, and keep it full. Good excuse to buy a tractor to burn the excess fuel every season. Or that dually pickup you've always wanted. I bet the CP27 would motor full steam for six to eight hours, if not sixteen to 18 hours, on three gallons.
In my experience (>25 years), I've used lots of filters, and never any biocide. I go out of my way to buy fuel from the best outlets (go load behind a tug that just took on 10000 gallons, or jerry can from a truck stop. Skip the marina that sells 50 gallons a week out of a 8000 gallon tank, their fuel is by nature old crap), and keep the tank as absolutely full as possible. Full of fuel leaves no room for air thus reduced oxidation and less "breathing" condensation which equals water.
My Islander 36, Yanmar 3HMF (30HP), burns 1 quart an hour at cruise. My CP 25's, Westerbeke 12CTwo's, are rated at 3 quarts per hour. Westerbeke and I never quite saw eye to eye on that; they publish fuel circulation in lieu of fuel consumption. BTU's are BTU's, HP are HP, a dang 12 HP two cylinder surely doesn't out burn a three cylinder 30HP. But I never developed accurate fuel burn on the 25's. Let's just agree it's low.
I'm working on a 54' Jeanneau right now, who's owner has always worked the bottom of his 100 gallon tank. We just can't see eye to eye on it; it is his boat and his money, so sometimes I go with the flow. He did get the huge dual Racor a couple years ago (so we can switch filters by rotating a valve, bringing a clean filter online immediately). Oh, back to the point at hand; the Aluminum tank that rarely has more than 10 gallons sprung a pinhole leak even only 8 years old. So having changed all the fuel lines before convincing ourselves it was a tank leak (and saturating soundproofing insulation in the process; damn French use something equivalent to carpet padding which just sucks up the diesel); we've pulled the tank and welded a plate to the bottom of it. And pressure tested. And it goes back in tomorrow.
And he's realized to save this tank for the Bahamas, and install an 18 gallon tank in the lazarette for local use. It'll run the genset for a full 24 hours if he needed it, and probably provide over 24 hours of propulsion if required. And if it stays full (see above about no air).
Thanks for the thoughts and comments.
I use an algae inhibitor, a stabilizer, and fill from gas stations. I think that I did not pump the tank all the way dry when I first bought it. I was on the hard for 4.5 years with a half tank of fuel.
I have heard both to keep the tank full, or less than 1/2 full.
It is a 10 gallon tank.
regards charlie
I am still not out of the woods entirely with fuel problems. With the tank, racor filter, fuel pump, engine filter arrangement, both the fuel pump and racor filter mounted on the starboard side of the engine compartment (on the outside of the head wall). I was unable to get all the air out of the line at the injectors. I pumped the fuel directly from the pump into a clear container and it was very foamy. I concluded that the Facet pump is not a very good sucker and or the Racor filter is leaking some air. So remounted the pump where I found it, low on the head wall in the cockpit locker which put the pump between the tank and the racor filter. This arrangement has worked so far......EXCEPT...when I was motor sailing with a reefed main last Monday. With only 3-4 gallons of fuel the pick up was not submerged on a starboard tack....
If you are going to motor sail, do so with a full tank.
Going to test the system tomorrow with a full tank of diesel.
It it works out I am going to buy a new racor filter and install it back by the tank. It will be between the tank and the pump, which makes sense to me. I will keep the pump low on the aft head wall in the cockpit locker. I want to keep the plywood that separates the cockpit locker from the engine free of stuff. It is very handy to be able to remove a few screws and remove it to work on the shaft or engine. Will also put all same size fuel lines in.
Hopefully no more problems.
regards charlie
regards char