I've read several instances of the cockpit drains being below water allowing the cockpit to flood - rubber plugs were suggested. Is this a common problem or is it due to just too much weight in the cockpit? And how much is too much?
In preparation for my inaugural launch next summer, and just that reason why, I bought a supply of rubber and wooden corks/plugs from here: http://www.widgetco.com/corks. Inexpensive and they fit great.
It's a weight thing. With my 1980 CP16, with a 40 pound motor and my weight (190#) alone, it was usually OK. If my wife joined me (140#), we would get a little water coming up, particularly when motoring and the stern squats. Add a 3rd person and the water would come in while sailing too. Or at least that is what I remember.
you must carry a heck of a crew weight. i have only occasionally has some water come back through the scrubbers but never a flood. never plugged mine never will.
My new to me CP16 is pretty empty of extraneous gear. I did an hour "putt putt" cruise of the creek for my parents over holidays. They were sitting forward in the cockpit. I was sitting in aft corner working the 2.5 hp 4-cycle outboard. I noticed the occasional spurt of water out of the drains when one of us rocked the boat to get a better view of something. Nothing like a flood though.
In calm seas, water should only come up when the drains fall below the water line. This is most likely only going to happen when the aft end is weighted down. Even then, the water level will only rise to the water line in the weighted down aft section. To flood the entire cockpit (but only up to the water line) would require the entire hull to be weighted down below the water line.
The other way to get the entire cockpit below the water line, besides too much weight, is for a temporary rise in water level, for example, large following swells. I've yet to experience that in my limited CP16 sailing experience. I can see how that could be annoying. However, personally, I feel that in such a situation, that is exactly the time that I would want an unexpected breaking wave from over the stern to drain quickly. That raises the cockpit water level above the water line and subtracts from overall buoyancy.
If I find it becomes an issue later on, I'd rather add some sort of decking on the cockpit floor to keep my feet dry but allow the water to drain. I seem to recall the CP19 I owned in a previous life had rubber flaps across the drain outputs to help prevent back flow of water. I have to admit I haven't looked at the CP16 drains in detail.
Motor plus an overweight old man sometimes equals water coming in backwards. Buy the corks, stay forward in the cockpit, and don't back up too fast.
My 78' with motor and me allows a small amount of water in cockpit while motoring,and while motoring got bath tub plugs from the hardware store and when I got a cockpit grate my feet stayed dry, so no need for plugs..........finally got two plastic valves,also from hardware store, and put them in the pipes, would never use in heavy weather, also at one point put flappers on end of drains pipes which were totally useless....................cockpit grate the best answer.......nies
Hi
From a safety perspective, I would leave the scuppers unplugged and free to drain water from the cockpit. Water could come from waves and you would want it to drain fast, also it would be unfortunate to forget the plugs in during a rain and to have the cockpit fill up with water. I do not have a footwell grate but I think that leaving the scuppers unplugged and laying down a footwell grate is the best solution. I have had 4 adults plus some gear and the water isn't a big problem but you will get a little bubbling up into the footwell from time to time, especially with a following sea. -Jason
Don't plug them up. Keep them clean. Let them free flow.
Safety first. Don't flood and flounder.
skip.
Quote from: Gerry on December 30, 2013, 12:51:31 PM
Motor plus an overweight old man sometimes equals water coming in backwards. Buy the corks, stay forward in the cockpit, and don't back up too fast.
HEY - I resemble that remark
250#s and a heavy cooler
what are ya gonna do!
I'll tell you what your'e gonna do: Get to drinkin' the beer in that cooler so it's lighter! Maybe a tiller extension so you can sit further forward.
Bob23
Quote from: Bob23 on December 30, 2013, 06:35:45 PM
I'll tell you what your'e gonna do: Get to drinkin' the beer in that cooler so it's lighter! Maybe a tiller extension so you can sit further forward.
Bob23
Yes, you're right (actually pushing 260, but the annual New Years Diet will get it down 10 or so!). Tiller extension sounds good.
If the drain tubes are below the waterline there is just too much weight in the stern of the little boat.
When the stern squats so the drain tubes are below the waterline the boat will sail like a pig.
I firmly believe that uneven weight distribution and overloading the boat until the stern squats is the primary reason our little boats have a reputation for lack of speed and poor windward performance.
If you don't absolutely need something, leave it on shore.
If you do need an item, like a motor, get the lightest one you can.
Move the weight forward, like the battery, so the boat will sail on her lines without the dreaded stern squat.
If you do that your boat will sail 100% better and your cockpit floor will be dry most of the time.
Corks: Use them if you like. (They don't weigh much but if your boat is sailing on her intended lines, they won't have much to do.) Just don't leave them in.
I think a lot of guys have installed rubber flappers on the transom over the scupper holes. They prevent, to some degree, water ingress into the scuppers but will allow water to escape. Flappers probably isn't the correct name, but you get the idea. I think I saw 'em on a photo of Skips boat.
Bob23
Elsewhere on the forum, I describe my adventure with a broken cockpit drain. In my situation, one of the pipes leading from the cockpit to the stern had broken free. Not a good thing. With the scuppers below the surface, the water will back up into the bilge/cabin. My problem arose because I had some "accessories" resting on top of the scupper tubes (since resolved). I had failed to take into consideration the beating those tubes would get while the boat was being trailered. The quick fix was to simply insert the transom "cork" into the drain. Under normal conditions, I would leave the drains open so any water coming over the coaming will drain out. If you have a following sea, just plug 'em up. With the wood grate I have on the cockpit floor, my feet don't even get wet with the little bit of water that comes in when the stern sinks lower than the drains. When the boat is "parked" on the hard, I leave the drains open to allow any rainwater to drain out.
Marty K.
1981 CP16 Pegasus
Quote from: Bob23 on December 31, 2013, 08:31:33 AM
I think a lot of guys have installed rubber flappers on the transom over the scupper holes. They prevent, to some degree, water ingress into the scuppers but will allow water to escape. Flappers probably isn't the correct name, but you get the idea. I think I saw 'em on a photo of Skips boat.
Bob23
Got em on my boat, they need replacing (old, cracked). Had em on previous boats and they haven't worked well.
I will need to get some exterior transom plugs in case the tubes leak, wonder if the flappers will allow plugging as well.
I have replaced the flappers twice over the years, next time I will remove rubber and not waste any more money on something that really does not work on the CP16......nies
Quote from: MKBLK on December 31, 2013, 05:04:15 PM
I describe my adventure with a broken cockpit drain.
The quick fix was to simply insert the transom "cork" into the drain.
Good point. Just like I have wooden bungs tied to each seacock on my big boat, I should also have corks ready to go for drain emergencies. Will do.
Hi, my boat is a Legacy, so pretty much the same as a 16, and it comes from the factory fitted with "flappers" and I don't get much water back up the cockpit drains. This is with a 90 kilogram sailor, 25kilogram outboard plus fuel etc.
On my boat the cockpit floor is always wet because of the water which comes up the centreboard control line. So, is a wet cockpit floor a problem? Well, on those dream sailing days, drifting down wind, yacht vertical, glass of chardonnay in one hand and a ham and cheese baguette in the other, steering by casually leaning on the tiller, I can imagine that a wet cockpit floor may be a problem.
However, beating hard to windward in twenty knots, boat crashing into the sharp three or four foot waves that my favourite sailing lakes throw up, spray everywhere, boat heeling till the toe rails are submerged, frequent solid water crashing over the bow, me soaked to the skin, in these conditions the cockpit floor is wet as is everything else. But in this sailing scenario (which has been the majority of my sailing recently) a wet cockpit floor doesn't enter my list of concerns. The drains work well to remove most of the water quickly, that is the prime concern.
So, I suggest you try the flappers as fitted to the Legacy by ComPac, they are probably available from the company.
Don't know about the 16, but the Legacy has a partial bulkhead about eighteen inches forward of the transom, the top this is well above the waterline, so if the drain pipes broke, as has been mentioned here, the maximum amount of water flooding in would be limited to a couple of gallons. Not enough to worry about, repair when you next get ashore, no need for emergency plugs to block the drains.
Cheers,
Cockpit drains??? What are these strange things that you speak of? Mine seem to be missing on my Eclipse.....
;D ;D
(http://i1058.photobucket.com/albums/t403/eagleye54/P1150702_zpsd8bac7fe.jpg) (http://s1058.photobucket.com/user/eagleye54/media/P1150702_zpsd8bac7fe.jpg.html)
-Allen
Eagleye,
Lovely picture of your Eclipse. That certainly is a large cockpit drain, can't imagine carrying a cork or plug big enough to block that!
Cheers.
Quote from: Pete H on January 02, 2014, 05:18:20 PM
Eagleye,
Lovely picture of your Eclipse. That certainly is a large cockpit drain, can't imagine carrying a cork or plug big enough to block that!
Cheers.
Thanks, Pete.
It sure makes it handy to rinse out the cockpit after lunch.
-Allen
I use these and they work great. Flexible, well constructed, easy to get in and out and easy to see. I have a 1976 CP 16.
(http://i901.photobucket.com/albums/ac215/Sterling100/image_zpsdc85fdf7.jpg)
Where did you find these plugs?
I purchased mine locally at Bill Jackson's, but you can also get them online. I own some kayaks so I originally purchased some to plug the scuppers in two Hurricane boats. They are sized by color, meaning the red plugs are the largest and the green are smallest. My kayaks take red, my CP 16 take yellow. I had tried some other ideas first and even went over to Hutcins in Clearwater because their parts list showed scuppers. Turns out they were plugs like the ones used on motor boats. The sink or tub drain plugs work, but changes in pressure can make them pop out. These scupper plugs are perfect! Again, well made, which you will notice if you get them. If I take a wave in the cockpit, I will still easily see them and pop them out by the attached cord in an instant. I have no safety concerns.
Amazon has them. Search under "Ocean Kayak Scupper Stoppers"
Which of the four sizes of yellow do you use for CP16?...............nies
There is only one size yellow. I know they show a size chart, but they will send you the color that goes with the size you select. Again, I bought mine at Bill Jackson's, but I believe you would be ordering the "small" size to receive yellow. You could send a message to the seller to make sure, but I'm 99% certain that red is large, blue is medium, yellow is small and green is extra small.
Nies,
check the Amazon reviews on the scupper stoppers, the following comment with plug sizes might help?
j
This review is from: Ocean Kayak Scupper Stoppers - 2 Pack (Misc.)
With no reference to sizing, good luck finding the right size... on other, non-amazon, sites I found chart that told you which one fit which ocean Kayaks but left no actual sizing information if one wanted to buy these products for other kayaks. The fist scupper plugs i bought of a different kind were way to small so I got the large in these. They were way to big so I keep buying the next smallest size and I guess the third time was the charm cause the "small" fit but with a good portion of the plug sticking up so I went a head and got the x-small to see if they fit more flush. Long story short I enjoy them now, I just wish the manufacture would be more straight forward in the sizing information. So no one has to play this game again, here are the sizes I found them to be. Each one has a slight tapper to the bottom.
Large- 2"-1 3/4"
Medium - 1 3/4" - 1 1/2"
Small - 1 1/2" - 1 1/4"
http://www.oceankayak.com/uploadedFiles/Website_Library_Assets/Files/Product_Support/Scupper%20Size%20Chart%202012%20%282%29.pdf (http://www.oceankayak.com/uploadedFiles/Website_Library_Assets/Files/Product_Support/Scupper%20Size%20Chart%202012%20%282%29.pdf)
Also, the bottom of this PDF confirms that yellow is "small".
Thanks for the info.................nies
Thank you very much! I ordered 4 "yellow" from Amazon today - be here Monday. I especially liked the idea of being able to pull the out from the cockpit if needed.
I shared this post with my wife this morning and she said that someone at Hutchins told her they used different pipe sizes over the years. I measured mine this morning and it's approximately an inch and a quarter. There is some margin for error with these plugs because of the tapered design, but if you have a larger pipe you might need to go up a size on the scupper plug. The yellow plugs fit snug and all the way to the top of the plug in my boat.
I noticed an old post that mentioned that there is a bulkhead under the aft end of the seats. The theory was that if the cockpit drain pipes broke only a few gallons of water would enter the hull as the bulkhead will limit the amount that can enter the boat.
I don't know if other Compac-16's are different but my bulkheads are only about 4 inches high and the drain pipes are higher than that so it would seem to me that if these drain pipes are accidentally broken that the hull could fill up with water.
While I am a new owner with no Compac experience yet, this seems to make sense to me. Therefore, I have obtained drain plugs for the cockpit drain holes and also plugs for the stern drain holes in case the drain tubes come apart.. In my case the cockpit drain holes are 1" and the stern drain holes are 1 1/4" so I need to carry two different size sets of plugs. I know this is the old belt and suspenders concept, but drain plugs,are pretty cheap. I got mine at the Bass Pro Shop
I agree weight is the major issue. Also "don't leave them in"...I learned this the hard way when I showed up at my boat from a shuttle only to fine my boat was a bathtub.
I am a hopeful future Compac 16 owner who has a weight question. I am a large man (340 lbs) who has concerns about being too large for this size boat. I understand moving my weight off the stern and closer to the cockpit will help, but will it be enough if I sail with a 200 lb passenger. I have seen Compac16s on land but have never been in one on water to see what my weight does to the handling characteristics of the CP16. Any plus size sailors out there in CP16s?
Your size should have no real effect on how a CP 16 sails except if you use it for moveable ballast. I think that if you sit yourself up on the combings it would take a pretty poor sail set, and a pretty good gust to lift the windward side too much. If you have all the weight in the stern of a flat transom boat, you will end up dragging some water around with you because of the backwash that the vertical transom sets up. That can be a noticeable drag on any boat. If you are sailing for pleasure and not in competition, it should hardly matter. To counter that drag I usually hug the bulkhead of the cabin which keeps the stern up and mostly keeps my cockpit drains out of the water.
I once crossed the straits of Mackinaw in my much smaller Weekender with a guy your size as crew and boy did he come in handy. I put him to the windward side and hugging the cabin and experienced a smooth upright ride the whole way. It was rough enough that I had green water over the bow a couple times, but that was just awesome. I'd sail with him anytime in either of my small boats.
Don't underestimate the power of moveable ballast.
Al
Thank you Duckie, I feel better, but I will try and still lose weight. I am looking for pleasure cruising only and on a small Minnesota lake. I appreciate your insights.
Nezz
I know what you mean. I am a pretty big guy myself. I find it comes in handy when I single hand either of my 16 footers. Yesterday I got the wife to go along with me for the first time this year and even though my weekender is half the weight of the Com-Pac, the extra weight made a huge difference in the way she sailed. For the first time I can remember I was able to sail close hauled on the leeward side of that boat. Way cool!
I think that Small Craft Advisor said it best: The Com-Pac 16 punches above her weight.
Al