i am thinking of moving up to a cp 19 from my 16. i have sailed my 16 for about 6 years now and am a 100 percent trailer sailor. our lake is just 25 minutes away and as anyone knows a 16 is a breeze (pun intended) to set up, launch and retrieve and it easily fits in my garage. however, being 6'5" i would like a little more room and it would be nice to take my daughters family when they visit as well as a few friends. my concerns are obvious----trailering and set up. my v6 powered s-10 is the only tow vehicle i have. its effortless with the 16 but at 1000lbs more a 19 might be pushing the issue. granted i wouldnt be towing it very far. im 61 and not getting any younger so the setup on the 19 seems a little daunting. a friend uses his jib halyard and a block forward to help raise his so that might be an option. i did do some measuring and it appears that the 19 would fit in my garage which is a must (im not messing with a boat cover). i guess what im after is first hand advice from someone who has owned a 16, moved up to a 19 and still sails off the trailer. there are a number of other larger (18 to 20 footers) out there that are lighter than 2000lbs but they are not com-pacs. anyway thanks for any input. that three foot itis is a bugger
Have you considered the Suncat and its siblings (Sunday Cat and Sun Cat Daysailer)?
The setup off the trailer is as simple as it gets with the Mastendr, and a cat rig can be a lot of fun. Fitting in a garage might be a challenge depending on your door height (it appeared to be an inch too tall on the trailer for mine when I checked it out a few years ago), but you get a big cockpit and super-easy rigging. Since they're a lot newer than the 19, cost could also put it out of contention.
Just a thought...
Hey Kick:
check this out:
http://jerseyshore.craigslist.org/search/boo?=boo&query=suncat&zoomToPosting=&minAsk=&maxAsk=
B23
Kick,
While I started with a 19 and then bought a 16 (and then sold the 16 shortly there after) I think I can give you some advice.
There is a big difference, the 16 is much easier to rig. The mast is much lighter and easier to raise. Although I still muscle the 19's mast up I could do it with one hand on the 16. I am 33 years old and while still easy, I could see it being a chore for some of the wiser fellows. Also the extra shroud on each side can also be a pain. Tends to get caught on the eyebrows (just double check before you raise) and the back stay has gotten wrapped around the tiller a time or two. I don't disconnect these each time like I do for the front stay, but they still get in the way. When the mast is down, the stern rail helps hold the mast up, but you also have to step over the spreaders when going forward.
I don't know if you can get into your 16 w/out a ladder when it is on the trailer (or water for that matter) but you will need one on the 19. Loading and unloading, and getting things in and out of the boat are more work too. can you or your wife lift a cooler overhead? And once you get home after a long day sail, and realize you left something in the boat, would you be willing to climb back in and under the mast and extra cables to get it? Here is a picture of my wife next to our boat on the trailer. She is 5'5"
(http://i1011.photobucket.com/albums/af237/billybbingham/P8070037-1_zps585b4f4f.jpg) (http://s1011.photobucket.com/user/billybbingham/media/P8070037-1_zps585b4f4f.jpg.html)
And another with me on it to give you some scale. I'm 5'10"
(http://i1011.photobucket.com/albums/af237/billybbingham/Anclote/400734_636760619685652_651938125_n_zps13fb5ad2.jpg) (http://s1011.photobucket.com/user/billybbingham/media/Anclote/400734_636760619685652_651938125_n_zps13fb5ad2.jpg.html)
AND the cockpit isn't that much smaller on the 16 (it may even be a tad bit longer if I recall), but the seats are wider in the 19. As a day sailor I really don't think they are all that similar. And would almost discourage you from going to the 19.
BUT.....
I would put the performance of the 19 way ahead of the 16. It points higher, faster, and much more room (inside the cabin & on deck. Much more stable and would allow you to sail on days you may otherwise not.
Where you really notice the extra room is in the cabin and all the storage. Also, the lockers in the cockpit are larger. You can have some people forward sitting on the deck (i like this b/c it helps the trim of the boat), some sitting on top of the cabin at the base of the mast and a few below in the cabin and still have the helmsman at the tiller w/ a few others. There is a TON of room on this boat!!!
In the picture below there are 6 people on the boat, a 90lbs Doberman lying down in the cockpit, and 3 days worth of camping gear for 6 people.
(http://i1011.photobucket.com/albums/af237/billybbingham/Anclote/481011_636762613018786_1165378064_n_zps3ca19a42.jpg) (http://s1011.photobucket.com/user/billybbingham/media/Anclote/481011_636762613018786_1165378064_n_zps3ca19a42.jpg.html)
I have yet to have a problem launching the 19 (especially w/ the tongue extension) and retrieving has been ALMOST as easy. The only real problems I ever really have have been due to the boat getting sideways on the trailer due to some cross currents at the ramp. I guess I might be able to muscle a 16 into place while the 19 I had to back up and go at it again. All in all, launching and retrieving have been a non issue for me.
I trailer my 19 every time I sail it and while I often look at other boats, I am pretty satisfied knowing she is the perfect boat for me now, later on? who knows?. I feel like the 19 is as big as I would want to go and still be able to trailer. Sometimes I sail for a day, sometimes 3. I would hate to rig a 23 just to sail for one day, and hate to sleep on a 16 for 3!
my suggestion is that if you only just want to day sail, and trailer every time, I would look into either a Suncat or stay w/ your 16.
If you don't mind a little more work on the front and back end, than go for it! Who knows, once you see how much room there is down below, you may end up becoming a weekender!
On of my favorite things to do is to spend the night on the hook!
Final verdict???? Get a 19 and do some weekends in new places!
Well, I had a 16, went sailing with Billy in his 19, and traded up to a 19. ;D
I would agree that overall the 16 is easier to trailer, rig and launch. The 16 is an awesome boat but it's limited. My wife and I spent four nights out on her in the Keys. It was great, but a bit claustrophobic at times.
The 19 is harder to rig for sure. It takes me longer and it's more physically demanding (I don't use a mast tender). Unlike Billy, I am getting to be an old man (50) and I use the jib halyard trick most of the time. Since there is a backstay, you have to make 100% sure that it's loose enough to attach the forestay - a mistake I have made a couple times. I also have a roller furler on mine so that complicates the setup a bit as it has to be horsed into place. I find that care taken when storing the boat is the #1 way to speed up the setup. If I prep the boat for rigging when I tie down the mast, etc. after sailing, it goes much faster on setup the next time.
I have had the exact same issue that Billy notes with the boat wanting to go wonky when I retrieve it. There is no dock alongside my usual launch site so sometimes I just jump in and push it around onto the trailer. My trailer initially came with some "arms" that were in the back of the trailer and I took them off. I am going to put them back on because I think they will help resolve this problem.
The 19 is a much better all around boat if you take others sailing with you, which we like to do. 3 feet on a boat is a big deal and particularly on these boats. The chines are harder so the boat is far more stable. It's roomy. People with other boats get on the 19 and are amazed at the space. The way the 19 sails is different as well. It just feels like a bigger boat. Billy has a hydrofoiled rudder. I don't, and sometimes I stall on a tack if I am not minding my P's and Q's. I have everything to make a NACA but the time to git 'er done - I will do it soon.
Keep in mind the 19 requires a larger motor. I used an electric motor on the 16 when it was in the lake and that is a super easy setup. No mess, no fuss, no problems. I have a Mercury 6 HP on the 19 and I had to rebuild the carb shortly after I got it. It's just more hassle than the electric motor.
Kick,
I would really consider the Suncat. So many advantages over both a 16 and 19 in terms of rigging ease, and a nice upgrade from a 16 in almost every regards. I say almost only because you may want a sloop rather than a cat.
You are literally the perfect "target audience" for the Suncat. Easy to deal with all around.
Truth be told, a Suncat might just be my next boat (addition to the 19 for a pure trailer and winter boat).
Call me when you drive out to NJ to see that Suncat Bob23 mentioned. ;) You can crash at my place, I might even polish the boat for you. ;D
Quote from: Salty19 on November 14, 2013, 11:06:21 PM
I say almost only because you may want a sloop rather than a cat.
Capt. Nemo has a slopped rigged cat......
first off i really appreciate the input from people who "know". i knew i could count on that. recently i have found a 19 II near here that belongs to a woman who sailed with her husband until his death. she now wants to downsize to sail solo. today jason and i will inspect the 19. im thinking of trading my 16 for the 19 and seeing how it goes---a bit of a gamble as my 16 is set up well and requires nothing. in the future i might re-rig the 19 to a three point rig without backstay as has been done by the sailboat company in north carolina. 19s have also been converted to a mast-tender system. mike knows my situation better than anyone and has told me to keep my 16 and i appreciate the advice. the 19 would afford us much more room and the ability to take others for a cruise and i guess worse case scenario i could sell it and get my money back (providing i can deal with the owner ). i have lots to think about for sure and hopefully my heart wont overrule my brain. again thanks so much to everyone------ill let you know how the saga ends.
I don't think converting to a 3 point rig is a good idea.
You would have to move the shrouds aft (more holes in the boat). But the bigger issue is that you cannot let your main sail out as far as it will rub on the spreaders, and the boom will chafe the shrouds. Anything downwind of a broad reach and you cannot set your sail right. I also think it puts way too much strain on the rig. As it is now (4 points) should one stay fail, the other three will keep your mast up. On a 3 point rig if one stay fails down comes the mast and that could be a disaster.
Plus the aft stay is about the only secure thing you can hold onto in the cockpit when standing up or climbing into the boat over the stern rail.
I really don't see the benefit of doing this. the back stay really isn't a problem except for 1 second before you hoist the mast. Just check to make sure it isn't tangled around the tiller.
I am sure it has been done, and is structurally sound. I just don't see the benefit. Spend your money else where. A mast tender sounds like a much better modification.
the sailboat company (a com-pac dealer) has apparently converted 5 boats to three point rig. they do affix new chainplates aft but they also remove the spreader because according to them it is just there for looks and really serves no purpose. i plan on contacting them to try and consult with their rigging guy. i have never stepped the mast on a 19 but have been told by others that it isnt that hard. the suncat idea is interesting but i do want a boat that points better than my 16 and i doubt if a catboat would, after measuring the 19 today i might find that it wont fit in the garage which would be a dealbreaker. thanks buddy for your incite
Unless you have an 8 ft high door , a 19II ain't gonna fit.
TG
Quote from: Billy on November 15, 2013, 08:07:38 AM
Capt. Nemo has a slooped rigged cat......
True.
Kick, tough decision. Assuming it fits and is in decent shape,if you can even-trade the 16, worse case you sell the 19 get another 16..maybe a centerboard for the same price. You'll get taxes twice though...I assume IL taxes you when registering a new car/boat.
i has jason inspect it and we came to the same conclusion-----needs plenty of cleaning and tlc----but basically sound. i measured it for height and its pretty close. at present my garage door openings are 92". since i built the garage myself, it can be altered to be almost 96 if need be. just a little creative woodbutchering on my part. even though it will be more work to rig and launch, i think the advantage of more room is worth it. money is the key at this point. it its right ill make the move, if not its a long winter and the 16 isnt eating anything. thanks for the advice buddy as always-----say hi to becky for us
SOLD!!!
a few questions about stepping the mast on a 19. since some of my sailing is solo i would like to hear some ideas about raising the mast on a 19 by myself. a good friend Crazy Carl runs his jib halyard through a block attached to the bow and as he raises the mast pulls on the halyard to take some of the strain. he then cleats off the halyard on the lower mast cleat and then attaches the forestay. this seem like the best way. i figure that the mast isnt a lot heavier than the one on my 16, so i really should be able to muscle it up, im 6'5" so that should help. also im curious what others use to tow their 19s. i have an s-10 with a 4.3 v6 and automatic.
I've raised my mast once by myself. Lifted it all the way up and then grabbed the front stay, pulled it down to keep it tight and then walked forward slowly to attach to the stem head fitting (chain plate). Wasn't that hard but much better w/ a crew member. Never have tried the halyard trick but i am sure it would work, once you get the mast up past halfway. Your height will help here.
However, lowering the mast is a different issue. The one time I raised it, when I went to lower it by myself with a line attached to the front stay. I got it about halfway down and then it dropped . Haven't done it by myself since. Pretty sure you would need a gin pole to raise the angle of pull more upward.
And I tow with a Toyota Tacoma V6 w/ no problems. I think Ted uses a Chevy Avalanche V5..... I think.
I actually tow with a Chevy Colorado with a 5 cylinder. Works just fine. The S 10 should be okay but I probably wouldn't try to take her over the Rockies hauling a 19. Next time, I will buy a bigger truck just to feel a bit more relaxed about it when I tow to S. Florida.
I have raised and lowered the mast numerous times solo. I even did it once on the water - although that scared me and I would never try it again.
With the roller furler mine is pretty heavy compared to the 16 I had. I don't think you will have a problem lifting it solo but I would always use the halyard trick Billy notes above. This seems like a small thing, but I also like to make sure I have shoes on my feet when I do it. That way, if I have to move fast, I don't worry about hurting my feet by stepping on the deck rigging or other items. I have a pair of shoes made to wear on a fiberglass boat and I use them when stepping the mast solo.
One thing to be very careful about on the 19 is to make sure that the "shroud stays" (I think that's the right name for them) don't get caught on anything when you lift the mast. I have white Star Board rails holding my hatch in place. Once, one of these shroud wires got under the lip of the rail and when I boosted up the mast, it wanted to go wonky. Rather than slow down, think, and lay the mast down again, I simply grunted and pushed harder and harder until I heard a little "click" and the rail end snapped off, about an inch's worth. Now, I make sure to lay those shroud stays in a way that they will never bind up when I lift the mast.
Steve,
The next time we're down your way, I'll let you raise the mast on our 19.
Then you can put her in the water.
When we're finished sailing, I'll let you pull her, lower the mast and ready her for the road.
You can even buy me lunch for letting you experience readying a 19 first hand.
No reason to thank me, that's what friends are for! ;D
Carl
thanks for the input everyone especially carl (knew i could count on you buddy). i should have probably asked jason if i could step the mast on his but he already put it away for winter-----which he might regret---we could have a few good sailing days yet. anyway thanks again------i have plenty to think about.
I'm a 57 year old CP 19 sailor, love my boat, and wouldn't trade her for anything. That having been said, raising and lowering the mast is no joke. I have done it solo (good advice from Ted above about those damn shrouds catching on the eyebrows) but it is stressful and feels dangerous every time. Even with my wife belaying the furler/forestay from the pulpit while I lift the mast, it's the most dreaded part of readying the boat to sail. This is just a fact of life when trailer sailing such a substantial boat. I don't think it offsets the 19's many other great qualities, but I think a potential buyer should experience it firsthand, especially if he/she is getting older or has any physical limitations.
Wes
wes, my thoughts exactly. i have decided that before any deal is made i will insist on raising and lowering the mast and trailering the rig a distance. thanks much
With my truck being a 4wd Ford Ranger with a 4.0 I dont have much issue towing the 19. When I weighed it all and the individual parts I believe the total on trailer comes to somewhere around 2800 to 3000.
Not bad really.
I dont think rigging it by myself is a big deal, and I have a few disabilities that dont help overall, one main one being my back. The lightning affected my left arm and back so I am used to working more on my right side and thinking things through as to not cause my back any harm.
Everything is always easier with 2 people. But there is ways to work around that stuff and I am sure we can figure something out if you do get it.
If you want, call me and you can come by and see how light the mast really is. I take it off the boat and put it in the rafters of my garage, and it is still rigged yet.
wouldnt be a big deal to get it down to tote it.
I would say we could step it but it is nicely wrapped up for a buyer, and the boat is being completed in the next week or so before it heads to storage for the winter.
As much as I regret wrapping her up early, Every nice day I have had to work, and any free time has been devoted to house work, boat work, or charities. The charities seem to be the biggest as of the last few weeks.
Once I am done today putting the eyebrows on and sending pictures to a few people I hope to go help out at New Minden and maybe see if I can help someone clean up since those Tornados ripped em up..... I dont know anyone there, but no one turns down free help.
Mac
i was thinking about new minden as well. i could take my flatbed trailer to help haul debris-----give me a call maybe we can go together
Kick,
Didnt end up making it out, and I have a practice I have to go to this evening.
I have heard things are going well though over there, so that made me feel a bit better. I guess in Washington IL they have Looters and such, havent heard of that in New Minden.
I won't hesitate to call you if I decide to go over the next couple days after work or something, I have a few other guys that are possibly up to heading over as well.
Mac
As new owners of a 19 my buddy and i dropped the mast for the first time the other day before coverning her with the tarp for the season :'( I'm curious as to what you guys typically do with the mast step bolt. Is it necessary to remove it when dropping the mast or is it sufficient to just loosen the bolt. It seems that there isnt enough slack in the side stays to allow the mast to pivot on the step. Or do you loosen the turnbuckles for the side stays or unpin the turnbuckles.
Thanks _/)
I remove the bolt and shift the mast forward so it rests on the bow pulpit and stern rail. No problem having plenty of length on the shrouds to do this.
Wes
Mast storage:
Prior to lowering the mast, 2 x 4's are U-Bolted across the bow and stern pulpits.
The mast is lowered.
The back [top] of the mast sits on the stern's wood.
The bolt, washers, and thumb screw is removed from the tabernacle and mast.
The mast is then picked up and skinned forward and ends up resting on both 2x4's.
The mast is tied down with some premium 3-M electrical tape.
The reason for the wood is to place the horizontal mast OFF-CENTER of the ship's centerline.
This allows access through the sliding hatch and companionway without ducking under the mast.
It's all about comfort.
Additionally NO tarp.
I store within a building.
A tarp just loads up with snow and that weight pulls on the stanchion's screwed and that dislodges and damages the boat's topside.
Put the boat into a 'no-touch' tent or put it into a building.
skip.
(http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh299/1930fordroadster/reunion3129.jpg) (http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh299/1930fordroadster/d272810cfaa623be98ed0e82c47ad0cc0_s.jpg)
(http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh299/1930fordroadster/reunion3127.jpg)
(http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh299/1930fordroadster/reunion3126.jpg)
skip,was viewing the pictures that you posted and noticed the cushioning that you use as a backrest? clever idea ! How are they attached?
thank,
j
I purchased a 1985 '19' at the end of last season and sailed a week before starting the winter project list mainly trailer problems (still working on stanchion issues). I drive a Ford F250 truck and on a steep ramp it is the right vehicle. The compact is a little daunting for rigging but a mast raising system robbed from an old Venture really makes it a potential one man show.
I also own a Drascombe Lugger which I single hand step and sail but the process is much easier (I am 67). The 19 is not a one day up and back boat in my view...just too much rig to deal with but it is a delight for a couple of days at your favorite lake and you can put it up and down (carefully) by yourself with such a system using the forestay and operating from the cockpit with a winch as your muscle.
Sorry 'J' I missed your post.
These Sopac cushions came out of Australia however they are no longer in business.
These are CLOSED CELL foam and won't soak up water. That's important.
I bought two packages of these cushions, yielding four pieces.
Two pieces are loose and used for the settees. I have one extra piece for whatever.
I took one piece and cut it in half with a razor blade.
Held the half piece up on the cockpit and traced where it was to go.
I used a spray can of 3-M Trim Adhesive and heavily sprayed the back of the half piece AND the area on the cockpit.
Let tack up for about five minutes, carefully center and align the piece flush with the top of the cockpit and press.
Come back the next day and carve out an opening for the tiller minder socket.
They wash up great with soap and a scrub brush. Rinse with water. They have been stuck on the cockpit for what ... 9 years?
skip.
thanks skip, I bought a pair of the cushions about 10 years ago for my Alberg 22 and still have them... collecting dust. Like your application...was thinking about some heavy duty Velcro with adhesive backs as a means of attachment?
j
I don't care for Velcro. [Did you know a Swedish fella invented Velcro while pulling burrs out from his dog's hair?].
1~The area that the Velcro covers is very small when compared to the size of the cushion. Hence weight per square inch.
2~No tight fit against the bulkhead. Collects water, dirt, and speaking of dirt ... dirt fills the Velcro and then ... no stick'em.
3~Adhesive between the fiberglass and Velcro has a poor holding power when compared to two layers of tacked-up 3-M.
4~Can alignment between cushion and Velcro be consistently 'hit'.
Up to you.
skip.
The 19 does have many redeeming qualities over either a 16 or Suncat, and you'll really like it if you decide to get one, I'm sure of that.
Your S10 can pull it the distance you want. It's stopping the rig. I know you are handy enough to bleed brakes and overhaul the calipers/pads/rotors..might not be a bad idea. Maybe some better pads. That's the worst thing about towing a 19...slowing down and coming to relative quick stops.
I would leave the rigging alone but instead make a real nice mast raising system. The tiny amount of extra hassle of ensuring clearance for the extra stays isn't worth it, IMO. Carlyle can get rough and you know you'll have to be beating hard and getting tossed about in waves. As for the rigging there have been times downwind where the backstay is really being pulled hard, like skip said in his post. I am glad it's there, and really isn't a hassle after you learn do lay them right before raising.
I'll probably make a winch type gin pole with helper lines to keep the mast straight. Should make the mast raising chore pretty easy. A one man operation if needed.
We can share notes.
Dont know if I said this, and I am too lazy currently to check..... But I only adjust my backstay, all else stays set when raising the mast.
Mac
Hear Mac here. " I only adjust my backstay, all else stays set when raising the mast. "
Me too. Once right, circlip the turnbuckles and that's it.
I have hefted the mast up by my self on the trailer. Though I wouldn't recommend it.
Two arms overhead, walk forward. Shoulder mast. Climb onto sliding hatch.
Push the mast up some more.
I use a safety line from the furler's end around the anchor roller and back under my feet.
As the mast goes up the safety line goes slack, skitter your foot over the safety line to pull the line back and take up the slack.
Once up tie off the safety line and do the Harken pin dance at the bow. Tighten the stern turnbuckle.
BUT!!! I usually grab the first kid I see at the boat launch to take up the slack and cleat the safety line around the cleat welded to my trailer's tongue.
skip.
I have been stepping mine single handed and with help - using the methods described here.
But... I am going to try creating mast stepping system, per the many designs you can find on the interwebs.
This one seems to be the easiest: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UfYTiKryKBc (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UfYTiKryKBc)
I will substitute a galvanized pipe for the 2 x 4 and I haven't figured out yet how to lash the pole to mast but that shouldn't be too hard.
It's more gear to drag around but I got a truck! What I like about it is that it goes slow - when I jack that mast up by myself there are too many ways to get the shrouds hung up on stuff.
Gotta finish that NACA rudder first... she's all wrapped up in foam down in the garage and ready to be shaped!
Thanks, Ted.
I've tried a similiar system with varying results. (Verying results means that mine didn't work nearly as well as the video.) There is a difference in the Compac tabernacle and the one in the video. I'm familiar with the one in the video as it is the same as on my sons Irwin FreeSpirit 21. It does not allow the mast to wiggle sideways at all. On my 23, there is a slot on each side of the mast foot and for that reason, the mast can go sideways. I don't know if other Compacs have a similiar mast foot with the slot.
Also, the rectangular mast foot on the video allows for the wooden foot on the gin pole to fit snuggly. Ours is different and thus presents a few more problems. But I believe we can adapt this system to work. I plan to use an aluminum pole attached to the actual mast foot in my next attempt. Still, remember that the mast foot is not designed or attached to resist strong lateral loads...if the mast starts to go sideways, the foot will not stop it. Don't ask how I know this.
Bob23
agree with Bob, on a ComPac you are flirting with danger if your system does not have properly adjusted baby stays to keep the lateral movement from occurring. My very first experience raising my mast with the factory system and two helpers resulted in a lateral sway that ruined the tab. The baby stays were not adjusted properly. I built a system that is in the DIY on this forum that is a single hand system, can be used on the trailer or on the water, is small enough to allow on board storage, takes about twenty minutes to setup and raise, will lock without using any boat components and allow you to clear the inevitable snag, and if you have a furler, will keep your furler extrusion from bending or kinking and keep the drum from bouncing along the deck.
What you need is a mastender system. ;D Actually they can be retrofitted......at a price! :( NC sailboats has done some. Happy Thanksgiving! :)
Here is what works for me.
I use a 2x4 for a gin pole. I shimmed out both sides of the gin pole so that the width of the gin pole is the same as the width of the tabernacle. I connect the gin pole to the tabernacle using two "tie plate straps". I bought these straps at my local lumber yard. Had to buy a longer bolt to go through the tie straps and tabernacle. Should note that once the mast is raised you need to pull out this bolt in order to remove the gin pole. I was a bit leery about this at first but if you tighten the shrouds and stays prior to removing the bolt, the mast will be secure. I've tempered the problem of side-to-side sway somewhat by having a line go from a stanchion base on the starboard side - then around the gin pole - and then tying to the stanchion base on the port side. More on dealing with this problem later.
(http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t486/sail19/raising%20mast/IMGP7820_zps4ddeded6.jpg) (http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/sail19/media/raising%20mast/IMGP7820_zps4ddeded6.jpg.html)
Here's another photo of the tabernacle setup. Note that in this photo I have the gin pole too close to perpendicular to the mast - the mast electrical plug ended up being in the way. There are 2 solutions to this problem 1) either shape the bottom end of the gin pole so the pole will always be higher than the plug, or 2) just set up your gin pole so it will have about a 75° angle or so to the mast.
(http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t486/sail19/raising%20mast/IMGP7833_zps21685689.jpg) (http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/sail19/media/raising%20mast/IMGP7833_zps21685689.jpg.html)
Here's what the upper end of the gin pole looks like. The white line with red flecks is the main halyard. One end is tied off to the gin pole. The other end goes thru the masthead and is then tied off near the base of the mast. The red line goes down to a double block on the deck.
(http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t486/sail19/raising%20mast/IMGP7826_zps6e610c24.jpg) (http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/sail19/media/raising%20mast/IMGP7826_zps6e610c24.jpg.html)
Here's a look at the deck block. The red line is then led back toward the cockpit.
(http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t486/sail19/raising%20mast/IMGP7821_zps6b4e2cf3.jpg) (http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/sail19/media/raising%20mast/IMGP7821_zps6b4e2cf3.jpg.html)
And finally, here is my red line ending at a cleat.
(http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t486/sail19/raising%20mast/IMGP7823_zps3311e844.jpg) (http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/sail19/media/raising%20mast/IMGP7823_zps3311e844.jpg.html)
Here is my process for raising the mast (or at least 1 variation of it). I stand on the aft end of the cabin top. If I stand over the mast with my legs straddling it, it is easy to get the mast a few feet off the pushpit rail (or in my case, my wood mast crutch). My hands hold the mast. I keep the red line between my hands and the mast. Sounds complicated and risky but I have no trouble with it and I am pretty paranoid about this kind of stuff. As I lift, I pull in on the red line too. It is easy to stop raising the mast at any point since the 4:1 pulley requires very little effort to hold the mast in position. If something gets hung up, I can walk back to a cleat on the cockpit combing (keeping one hand on the mast so it won't sway) and tie off the red line. More often than not though, I lower the mast back down, (again, easy to do using the 4:1 pulley) correct the item that went wrong, and then raise the mast again. I've done this on the trailer and with the boat on the water As far as mast sway goes, I stay next to the mast as I'm raising it and let it lean/slide against my body as I raise it. This keeps any sway to a minimum.
Once the mast is vertical, I tie off the red line to a cleat. I can then do everything else at my leisure.
Hope this helps.
Marc
Marc,
Cool setup. But why not use your rope clutch and wench on the cabin top for your red hoist line?
Ps love your stern rail seats. Look like Salty's.
Kick
First couple times I raised my mast it seemed overwhelming and Dad & I did it together. Now I close the companionway cover and stand on the cover to start out as far aft as I can, and I quick heave and up she goes. Once the mast is vertical a halyard can be pre attached to the bow pulpit and then cleat it off at the base of the mast to make it more or less secure while you get the bow pin in. Any more once I have the mast up, I grab the furler (with sail and sail sleeve still on it) and just keep pulling it forward so it is not temped to fall aft.
Another trick is to park the trailer with the bow of the boat significantly lower than the stern and then gravity helps keep the mast upright.
Hey, worst case you make up a gin pole (as you can see from the pictures they are not rocket science) and then you can take all day to get the mast set, but then you will miss wind molecules getting away from you.
Lafayette Bruce
QuoteMarc,
Cool setup. But why not use your rope clutch and wench on the cabin top for your red hoist line?
I'd rather have the line in my hands. That way I can start and stop the gin pole's movement whenever I want. If the line went through the clutch, I wouldn't be able to stand next to the mast and control its side sway. Also, in my case, the line diameter is too large for the clutch. The winch is overkill. Not enough force on the line to require its use.
Marc,
Thanks for those pics! I was racking my brain on a way to connect things at the base. Was thinking about using the mast bolt but was unsure about doing it because of having to remove it.
In my case, I actually have another bolt that goes through the mast on the tabernacle. PO installed a bale for a boom vang there. So, in my case, I can install the bale, remove the bolt fear-free, and reinstall it.
I like your setup - will be using it as a template for mine!
Thanks!
bruce, thanks for the advice. if i do make a deal for a 19 if figure ill just muscle it up using carls method of using the jib halyard through a block at the bow and pull that while i raise the mast, once vertical i can cleat the halyard off while i set the forstay. it should work for a few years until i become older and more feeble.