My trailer title lists the trailer as being able to tow 2000lbs. My current axle is a square 2x2 axle which from everything that I have read is rated at 2000lbs ( square 2x2)
All the 2x2 replacement axles that I can find that have the correct spring center for the perches or perches that need to be welded and close to the right track distance are all rated for 2000lbs. The CP19 weighs 2000 lbs empty. How safe is this ? I know the trailer is 30 years old and seems to have held up to towing fine over the years but it seems the trailer would be a little overloaded. Hopefully the load rating on the axle is on the conservative side. All the 3500 Lb axles are going to be too wide for the trailer.
If anybody has replaced there axle what did you go with?
I found a Dexter axle rated for 3500lbs that should work and a bonus it comes with no weld adjustable spring seats.
The new springs I am ordering should be good for for 2900lbs I just need to check the load rating of my tires.
Now to decide if I want to spend the extra $75 on the better axle or is that going to be overkill
Good move, Matt:
It's better to have a bit of reserve capacity. Easier on the brain while towing.
Bob23
Go big. The trailer is over 600lbs, plus battery, fuel, outboard, gear, options, spare tire, galley, etc You're looking at 2900 lbs total axle weight easily.
Also boat weights from a manufacturer are not to be trusted. Do you think the boat is exactly 2000 lbs? Nope,it's more like 2200. Weigh it to see for yourself.
Having recently blown not one but both tires on the trip to CLR, I'm going the opposite way.. Will be installing a double axle before next long tow.
By the be sure to get load rating E tires. Anything less is asking for trouble.
I went with the bigger axle. Everything should be at my place sometime next week. I currently have load rating C tires on there now. Will upgrade them at some point over the winter.
Fixing the trailer including the welding the tongue pretty much killed my boat money budget for a little.
Salty:
Didn't know about your blowouts. Glad you sustained no damage to trailer or boat. I always believe in a bit of overkill. Nice to have a safety margin.
Bob23
Ugh! You guys are freaking me out!
2,200lbs Boat
600lbs trailer
60lbs engine
60lbs battery
2,920lbs just for that not including...
20 lbs fuel (i usually leave in my truck until I get to the ramp)
10lbs life jackets
10lbs sails ???
30lbs of anchors & rode
15lbs of misc gear (tools, fire extinguishers, seat cushions, bimini)
now we are up to....
3,005lbs! :o :o :o
While the Load E tires are rated for 1650lbs each & the axle is rated at 3,500lbs, the 3 ply leaf springs are only 1,500lbs each.
That is too close!
No more gear in the boat while towing for me!
I always try to keep the cooler, and fuel in the back of my truck so that should help some, plus subtracting whatever the tongue weight is..... 200lbs?
I sure do hope they put in a safety factor!!! :o :o :o
Mike, please give us an update if and when you decide to add a second axle.
Once I find a damn parts guy I will be adding a second axle as well. I think that is a fantastic idea, and have pondered that since we bought ours. Not that it needs it but if you blow out one tire, you have 3 to back it up. :)
But I plan to stick with the small fatty tires and do a double axle that way.
Salty, take pics and let us know who you buy from so that we can do the same.
Mac
Mac:
Check this place out:
http://www.easternmarine.com/
Iv'e been to the store in Delaware. Like being in a candy store...they have everything. When I bought my 23, the trailer needed alot of work. I found everything there...prices so competitive it was worth my 1 1/2 hour drive each way to buy there.
Bob23
My 2500 pound Horizon and 750 pound 2 axle trailer actually tipped the scales at around 4160. And that was with almost nothing inside the boat. I tow with a 6300 pound Avalanche rated for an 8000 pound trailer, so the extra 900 pounds over factory specifications doesn't really bother me. But I would not be comfortable with a much smaller tow vehicle. Horsepower to climb a grade is not the real issue - it's stopping and turning it.
I'd weigh the 19 or at least find someone who has actually weighed his. These specs are never right.
I wonder if the costs of converting a singe axle to a tandem would be worth it. I just spent $320 for a 3500lb axle 2 3500lb hubs (both galvanized) a pair of 1500lb leaf springs and all hardware needed to mount it. If you are going dual axle you will need to add tires, wheels, new spring hangers hardware and at that point you will need to add brakes and I think some states require brakes on both axles so you might have swap out your original axle with one with brake mounts. It might be more cost affective to sell the old trailer and buy a tandem outfitted exactly how you want it.
www.easternmarine.com (http://www.easternmarine.com) and www.trailerpartsdepot.com (http://www.trailerpartsdepot.com) both have really good prices on parts. I ended up ordering from http://www.sturdybuiltonline.com/ (http://www.sturdybuiltonline.com/) they had the 3500lb galvanized Dexter axle I wanted.
Matt,
You're right, I'm going to look into a new trailer/sell old trailer vs. upgrading to see what's the better deal. I suspect it will be cheaper to upgrade--depends on what you could sell a 1998 trailer for too.
There's a few places around that make trailers, I just need to start calling around and stopping by some shops.
Brakes will most certainly be added, as will an extension. I might not get to this right away, we keep the boat in a slip and only tow long distances once a year, but chances are I'll have something figured out by late winter.
When I weighed the boat and trailer, it all weighed in correctly. 2060 lbs boat, 580 lbs trailer
As far as I am concerned on adding a axle, I think it is worth the investment just because it is peace of mind. as far as adding brakes, i cant add brakes on this small of tire, from what I have seen, and also on pontoon boat trailers they use dual axle no brake setups with these tires and do well.
Big issue I see is moving the trailer around on its own, but that isnt a big deal, in comparison to being able to be better road worthy.
cool ideas just require money, which is not usually in abundance...... kind of like the wind since CLR....... NONE lately.
Mac
Quote from: MacGyver on July 25, 2013, 10:08:36 PM
When I weighed the boat and trailer, it all weighed in correctly. 2060 lbs boat, 580 lbs trailer
When you weighed the boat and trailer, did you include the tongue weight? Either your truck or the trailers jack stand was holding up perhaps 300 pounds. My 20 foot Horizon has approximately 400 pounds on the tongue when attached to the truck.
You can put small drum brakes behind the 10 inch wheels. That's the way my Horizon came. It's got 13 inch wheels now because I switched over to install disk brakes on both axles. I was not happy with soaking the drum brakes in salt water.
So holding the trailer up with boat and all equipment are two spindles and tires with each spindle burdened at about 1,600 lb. load. [Just my guess].
Check the LOAD RATING of the tire, not the diameter [diameter means nothing] and then cypher the bearing load. It's either good or it's bad.
Temperature plays little factor in the bearing lube as long as it's not boiled out.
For a quick check the ultimate strength of steel is 10,000 lb x the thickness [diameter] of the spindle divided by a safety factor of 4 for each spindle.
The wall thickness of the square steel axle can be treated the same. Then there is the Moment of Bend and the Moment of Torque to be cyphered in.
The standard charts can be found in bearing catalogs and Ryerson Steel book and New York Blower shafting tables. Might even find it in McMaster's or W.W. Granger.
I slid my axle back on the trailer rails to achieve more tongue weight. It's at 288 lb when I put an electronic scale under the jack's wheel.
skip.
Quote from: CaptRon28 on July 26, 2013, 05:01:50 AM
When you weighed the boat and trailer, did you include the tongue weight? Either your truck or the trailers jack stand was holding up perhaps 300 pounds. My 20 foot Horizon has approximately 400 pounds on the tongue when attached to the truck.
You can put small drum brakes behind the 10 inch wheels. That's the way my Horizon came. It's got 13 inch wheels now because I switched over to install disk brakes on both axles. I was not happy with soaking the drum brakes in salt water.
What I did when I weighed it was first went up with truck and trailer, weighed in, then detached the trailer and weighed it.
Then went and got the boat, went back up, and pulled on with truck trailer and boat, and left the boat and trailer on the scale and took a weight.
that way all I was measuring was exactly what I wanted to, nothing extra. This was just the boat, with the hardware, no rigging or cushions. So really if you took off a few items, it would drop down to the 2000 lbs, which is probably pretty well what the hull structure weighs in at. Note that the makers say "HULL DISPLACEMENT = ?insert number here?"
Not something like Hull with all the stuff, and engine, etc displaces = ???
What was the maker of those brakes? And how were they activated? hydraulic tongue? I am intrigued, and now ponder a dual axle switch with brakes, that would be NICE ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Not that the 19 is a bear, but it is always nice to have a little help slowing down mass. ;)
Mac
Quote from: MacGyver on July 26, 2013, 04:48:46 PM
What was the maker of those brakes? And how were they activated? hydraulic tongue? I am intrigued, and now ponder a dual axle switch with brakes, that would be NICE ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
The last time I tried to rebuild the 7 inch drums, I'm pretty sure I got the parts from Etrailer.com and they were probably Dexter. The surge brake controller was UFP. I switched to 13 inch wheels and 10 inch Tiedown disk brakes not much later. I rebuilt the UFP controller to handle the disks. It is always a major hassle backing drum brakes into salt water. Over the years, I've converted 4 boat trailers to disks.
Twin axle trailers are safer, but remember that if one of the tires blows you may overload the other on that side.
CaptRon28, is that trailer you had the 7" drums on was it a 2 axle or single?
I am now in serious thought mode to convert the trailer to dual axle, and add brakes....... LOL
The ones I found on Etrailer were rated for 2000 or 2500 lbs..... so I m going to learn more about all of that before I set my mind....
Also, my truck is setup with electric brakes, I am thinking that is what I want to do because I can just disconnect before dunking, and that only happens 2 times a year right now, so worst case 4 or 6 times......
you relayed yours were UFP? what is that?
Thanks a bunch!
Mac
I should qualified my comments more clearly.
Skip and I have the XL version which is a bit heavier with all SS hardware and a fiberglass roof liner. About 2200lbs. Sorry about that.
Still, with gear, battery, motor, fuel, etc on board, even with a flimsy lightweight trailer you're still looking at 2700lbs *easily*.
Now since the tow vehicle will have , or rather should have, roughly 270lbs on the hitch, the trailer tires aren't taking the full load.
But take into account bumps and potholes, and excessive road heat (asphault can burn you in the summer), you want some margin of safetly.
Also...while looking for new tires, I noticed the load rating (A, B, C, D, E) amount varies based on not the rating, but the size tire.
A 14' load C might be stronger than a 10" load E. At least that's what I'm finding.
I had a very scary experience the other day. After returning from CLR, I got busy and didn't put our boat back in the water until this week.
Dunked it, motored off to the marina, and the wife picked me up later with the tow vehicle pulling an empty trailer. She stated "The trailer feels wonky".
"Wonky", I said, "what do you mean". "You'll see", she said.
The trailer was shaking like crazy, vibration, etc. Get home (thankfully only a 5 mile drive)...the damn wheel bearing nut was loose (broken cotter pin)-ON BOTH SIDES!!!!. Bearings are destroyed. I pray my lucky stars this didn't explode or loose a wheel! Whew!
So now I need bearings and tires just to get back on the road, but really am looking for another axle and brakes.
Based on some initial calls I've made, it might be cheaper to just get a new trailer and sell my old with new bearings and tires. We'l see, have some more research to do...
Salty, did you use SS cotter pins?
Dont know if it really matters, but that is all I have ever used, since the metal the way it fatigues considering its alloys works differently than the regular cotter pins.
also, every time I do bearings, I use new pins, I figure the couple of times I adjust the bearings (removing the pins) is a few fatigue cycles will be fine, but after bearings, I put new ones.
That is really crazy stuff to hear...... I am glad it wasnt worse. If you plan to selll that trailer, let me know, I might be interested since I still have not found parts to convert mine to a 2 axle..... no where have I found the damn 2nd axle carriers.......
This is honestly the first time I have ever heard that about cotter pins........looks like I might be talking to my trailer buddy next time I go by his place to see if he has heard of that.
Mac
Quote from: MacGyver on July 28, 2013, 10:15:14 PM
CaptRon28, is that trailer you had the 7" drums on was it a 2 axle or single?
The Horizon came with a 2 axle Magic Tilt with brakes on both. Original wheels were 10 inch, with 6 or 8 ply rated tires. Overloading was never an issue, but I got real tired of fixing the tiny drum brakes. Because the salt water tends to sit in the drums, it does a job on them. Most boat ramps do not have water hoses to flush them out. The hydraulic actuator on the tongue is a UFP. This is their website -
http://www.ufpnet.com/
Their stuff is sold at a number of stores, including Etrailer. I chose to rebuild their actuator because it was a lot cheaper than buying a new one. It had to be converted to handle disc brakes. If I had to buy one, I'd probably be leaning to TieDown Engineering.
Converting the Magic Tilt to 13 inch wheels and disc brakes was one of the best improvement I ever made to the boat.
Macguyer, Truth be told, I never looked at it or messed with it. The hubs are lubed via a zero so I've never tore them down--lubing via the zerk is more or less all I've done except basic tests for runout (tire spin, pull tire fore/aft/left/right to check freeplay).
One rim moves a good 1/4", if not a tad more. The other maybe 1/8". There should be almost no discernible play, at least by hand feel.
I suspect all the tire problems on the way out to CLR caused them to fail. For a good 30 miles there was excessive vibration before the first blowout. I knew something was wrong, but a quick roadside check made it appear as if all was well (didn't check for free play, just looked at the tire and they appeared fine). After the first tire was fixed, there was only a little vibration, and only a slight rumble the rest of the way to CLR and back home (about 700 miles). I attributed the rumble to the road surface at the time, but I'm thinking the bearings were issues the entire time.
I'm not finding scraps of a castle nut cotter pin either (it was dark the other night so didn't get a good look)..I'm not really confident it even had pins. I'm going to look at it tonight to better analyze what happened.
Doesn't matter, really...going to order new hubs shortly once I check, double check, and triple check measurements. I have to believe the bearings are gone being that surely they were not in correct contact with the races. Felt like the trailer was going to ignite and liftoff! ;D
Based on the prices I'm seeing, I don't know, it might be better just to buy a CP16 at a very good price and tow that around kingdom come instead of the much heavier 19 with double axles. OK, a guy can dream, but it's doable. Decisions, decisions...regardless, I gotta get the trailer fixed.
Nemo, as always...thanks for your wisdom. What do you think it best, hydraulic or all electric? I would still need a controller for either, correct? I think the actuator receives an electrical signal from a controller, then the servo pushes a piston to move the hydraulic fluid to the caliper in the case of hydraulic. Is my understanding correct? I'm not doing surge brakes, too many hills on routes to good sailing to contend.
Quote from: Salty19 on July 31, 2013, 04:56:45 PM
Macguyer, Truth be told, I never looked at it or messed with it. The hubs are lubed via a zero so I've never tore them down--lubing via the zerk is more or less all I've done except basic tests for runout (tire spin, pull tire fore/aft/left/right to check freeplay).
I don't trust bearing buddies or in the case of my new axle, which has an easy lube zerks at the end of the spindle that supposedly pushes the new grease up and out the front of the hub. I have read that if you put too much grease in you can blow the rear seal. Also without pulling the hub you really have no clue what is going on in there
It is always good practice to pull the hub check the bearings and races for wear and repack at least once a year. I do this with my Utility trailer and so far so good. Hubs are so cheap around $30.00 I think I am going to keep a greased hub with the spare for longer trips next year.
On a side note all my parts have arrived and I just need to find some time to put it back together.
I guarantee the cotter pins were not in the nuts ,there is no way two cotter pins brake or fall out , I am surprised the trailer got as far as it did..................I purchased a brand new trailer once and just decided to check the grease in the hubs...............zero grease....................nies
I was able to look at them last night in good light.
There are no cotter pins, instead they are small bendable tangs which block rotation of the castle nut. tough to see, and in the dark the other night I didn't notice them.
One tang on one hub was broken and the nut loose (not horribly so), the other seemed fine. Of course I didn't see it in the first place as grease had covered the small tang.
Oddly enough, the side to side play on the one that was fine is gone. A mystery indeed, there was a good 1/8" before. Strange.
Now I did look at the tires too. Both are identical size, brand and make (just different load ratings, I took what I could when broken down on the side of the road).
One is elongated a little bit on the tread (curved a bit, like a motorcycle tire), the other was a flat surface. No wonder why it shook like mad...the tires are not the same circumference.
I bet the tang recently broke, perhaps on the last 5 miles home from the ramp. Like Nies said, no way it was broken for all the driving we did. If it broke on the way out, I would imagine that wheel would of come off in a rather short period of time.
Gotta love trailers. Inspect, inspect, inspect!!
Ok here is my latest issue my middle keel roller bracket is pretty bent up. I tried to straighten it out but so far it is a no go and I am causing
more and more metal fatigue each time I try to straighten it out. The other brackets where bent out a little but easily straightened not like the one in the pic.
Do you guys think if I bolt an adjustable keel roller bracket to the frame it will support the weight of the boat and do I use 2 bolts or 4 bolts .
I am not sure if 4 bolts will fit and still let me adjust it to match the others.
My other options are getting a new bracket welded on $$$$ or using it as is. I guess I could go with a bunk board also but I already bought all new rollers and pins.
(http://imageshack.us/a/img692/8466/29tr.jpg)
(http://imageshack.us/a/img46/8659/n8de.jpg)
(http://imageshack.us/a/img838/915/pf2g.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/a/img854/5073/n9nv.gif)
I was able to bend the roller mount out a little better so I think I am going to go with that for now. I also found out that my winch post is almost rusted out on the bottom so I just ordered another one.
Hopefully I will get everything finished this weekend except the winch stand.
So far I have about $500 into the trailer rebuild. I still need to fix the tongue but I might wait until spring for that. I will only be trailing the boat 14 Miles home and then 14 miles back to the lake in the spring. I will need to get it fixed because I would like to do a few trips next summer
Just getting caught up on summer mail! Gosh, I have E rated tires but now I will be thinking twice about a long tow. Thanks for the heads up, Will check all in 2014.
Can the original axle be unbolted and slid astern ... and an identical axle be bolted on as close as possible to it without an equalizer?
Keeping everything stock? And 'bolt able' and 'slide able'? Would the rubber 'chuck' when turning tight?
Divide the total weighs by 4 10 inch tires, rims, spindles, bearings, and two spring sets.
Speaking of winter projects ... spring sets, if one can still have access to their boats in storage, put the trailer on jack stand and drop the spring sets.
Strip everything out from under the trailer channels. C-Clamp the springs closed and prize the alignment bands off the springs. Open up the spring packs, wire brush each spring leaf, bevel with a grinder the edges where the leafs rub together. Prime and paint them with several coats of your favorite brand of paint. Rustoleum? Here's where a heavy mil build of dry paint is worthy of consideration. In a week when it's all dry. Go to ACE and purchase some COPPER window screens. Cut to fit between the leafs and goop on an ungodly amount of axle grease or John Deere Slip Plate and C-clamp the spring packs closed and pound on the bands. The reason for the copper screens with or without lubricant is just that. A lubricant. Two leafs slide better over wearing copper wire as it flattens. If going overboard is an attractive thought, wrap the spring packs in leather and sew them up to limit the ingress of dirt. I did this on the trans mounted spring packs on my 1930 Ford Model 'A' and boy is the spring action phenomenal. And quiet.
skip.
I tired straps for guidance when I didn't know what I was doing to get the boat on the trailer ... a dismal failure.
(http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh299/1930fordroadster/17a20b9e484d579e168b8d0b3266ca6a0_m.jpg)
(http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh299/1930fordroadster/Fordframeback-2.jpg)
One carry over from the Model 'T' to the Model 'A'. Amazing, go anywhere suspension, with mechanical pull rod brakes.
(http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh299/1930fordroadster/Model%20A%20front%20axle/004.jpg)