I was wondering if anyone has heard of or has added a fuel tank that is permanently installed in the boat. I know that this is done with the diesel engine version of the 23 and they put a 10 gallon tank in it. Why couldn't this be done with the outboard version and have a proper vent for the fuel tank?
They do this in power boats all of the time.
I haven't but sure you can. Buy an approved below deck tank and properly and safely install it. And install a vapor blower kit to vent the bilges before using your stove or any spark producing electrical equipment. And install a Racor filter because that gas tank is going to condense water and you'll have no way to get it out but to filter it before it hits your outboards carb. But why on earth would you want to. You loose the portability of the outboard fuel tank, and the ability to fill your tank at a non-alcohol added gas station, and use it up in another application instead of letting it degrade.
I had a Columbia 8.7 with an Universal Atomic four gas engine. The A4 was a really wonderful engine, smooth, quiet and adequately powerful. However, I had more carb and fuel problems with the fixed gas tank than I've ever had with small outboards with remote tanks.
Well.....There is the reason that this isn't done! I was wondering about this.
I was thinking of this for the additional fuel capacity.
Plus you have placement of the tank. The boat is already stern heavy, adding a large tank back there isn't going to help trim the boat any.
In dead flat calm water I'll get 18 mpg with my Nissan 9.8hp 4-stroke at about 5.5 mph. I haven't tested it long distance again the wind yet. But at that rating my 6 gallon portable tank gives a range of just over 100 miles, more than enough for coastal cruising.
What brand of 6 gallon tank fits in the locker for fuel?
Quote from: HeaveToo on July 15, 2013, 03:14:37 PM
What brand of 6 gallon tank fits in the locker for fuel?
http://theoutboardwizard.bizhosting.com/_177001_universal_duratank_6_gallon_fuel_tank.html
I bought mine at Defender, got a much better deal, don't know if they still carry them.
The tank that the 23 uses is a 7 1/2 gal and is mounted on the aft bulk head
This will improve the balance of the boat, you will be moving the weight about 5ft forward and 2ft lower
David
Quote from: breeze on July 23, 2013, 09:39:35 PM
The tank that the 23 uses is a 7 1/2 gal and is mounted on the aft bulk head
This will improve the balance of the boat, you will be moving the weight about 5ft forward and 2ft lower
David
You're talking the diesel tank right. I'm sure it works great with that diesel motor located amidships with the battery bank on the opposite side to offset the weight. That location is not going to help much with a gas outboard. My 23 already lists a bit to port because of the motor and with 7.5 gallons of fuel on the port side that would be worse and it is still aft of the centroid. Just doesn't make sense for so many reasons with gasoline.
Yes I did install a diesel and I didn't put the tank near the port side hull.
I installed it under the cockpit, there is only 4in of the tank beyond the cockpit bulkhead.
The fill and vent lines run to the stern along the cockpit bulkhead.
The battery was moved forward of the head.
The fuel tank is the only thing that has any weight aft of the bulkhead.
I try very hard not to add anything on the stern of the boat.
David
Quote from: breeze on July 24, 2013, 08:12:22 PM
Yes I did install a diesel and I didn't put the tank near the port side hull.
I installed it under the cockpit, there is only 4in of the tank beyond the cockpit bulkhead.
The fill and vent lines run to the stern along the cockpit bulkhead.
The battery was moved forward of the head.
The fuel tank is the only thing that has any weight aft of the bulkhead.
I try very hard not to add anything on the stern of the boat.
David
Well I misunderstood, the factory location for a diesel tank is behind the bulkhead on the port side. But you're using this tank for gasoline? Fairly sure the ABYC requires a blower system for below deck gasoline storage, how did you handle that. Was your insurance impacted? How did you get it in there?
I have diesel in the tank
You are correct about the tank location, I mounted my tank closer to the centerline of the boat
I don't know why you would need a blower the fuel tank it is vented to the outside and the fill is outside.
A blower is definitely required with a gas inboard.
When I was younger we had a Columbia 28 that had a built in tank with a outboard without a blower.
This was a long time ago and the laws may have changed.
David
Quote from: breeze on July 24, 2013, 09:59:44 PM
I have diesel in the tank
You are correct about the tank location, I mounted my tank closer to the centerline of the boat
I don't know why you would need a blower the fuel tank it is vented to the outside and the fill is outside.
A blower is definitely required with a gas inboard.
When I was younger we had a Columbia 28 that had a built in tank with a outboard without a blower.
This was a long time ago and the laws may have changed.
David
This thread was about adding a below deck tank in order to get more fuel capacity for a gasoline outboard and whether that makes sense. Diesel is a completely different situation. You are not required to have a blower system for diesel because a leak cannot build an explosive mixture of fuel vapor/air. You are required to have the system for below deck gasoline because a leak in the tank, fuel line, or any part of the system that can allow gasoline into the bilge or below decks can create an explosive mixture. That (liability) is the primary reason (but not the only reason) that one hundred percent of sailboat manufacturers have switched from gasoline auxiliaries to diesel.
I suspect you were required to have it on the Columbia. You just got lucky. You were using an outboard and most explosions occur from starting the inboard, but can occur from any below decks spark source when the combustible mix is present.
But I'm interested in your setup. Did you buy your boat new and have the factory set the tank at the amidships location? Or was it an old diesel Compac that you relocated the tank? Certainly, tank, motor, and battery bank all in line and somewhat forward would be the best situation for trim when compared to a heavy outboard hanging off the stern.
The boat is a 1982 it had an outboard motor bracket, but there was no motor.
I had a 4hp outboard from my dink, used it to get to a local marina.
That was the only time I used the outboard, I purchased the 1GM10 and all the parts needed plus new rigging, main, furler, pulpits, and bow sprit.
Drilled the hole for the shaft glassed the cutlass bearing
Epoxied the bottom and panted the hall.
Had the boat out of the water for a long time, but it was time well spent in my opinion.
David
David:
Interesting conversion. I may pick your brain about this. Can you share the total cost of the diesel conversion only?
Bob23
Wow, what an undertaking. I would also be interested in more detail. In thoughts about the best next boat, I've sometimes felt it would be a 23 pilot house to get standing headroom, and enclosed head, and longer cruising range. New sticker shock being what it is on that model, I've thought about a conversion of an old CP23. Mine is too new to start tearing into, probably would be better to sell as is and use the proceeds for the conversion. Diesels are few and far between, and often pricey, so taking an old outboard model, converting it to diesel and adding the pilot house all at the same time kind of makes sense to me.
Was it difficult to do the motor/shaft/cutlass bearing alignment? Did you take the tank in from the cabin? Didn't happen to keep a picture log of the conversion did you? :)
Maybe start a new thread since this one has been shamelessly hijacked.
I like the ability to pull the plastic tank out of it's cubby hole on my CP-19 to wash and de-crud underneath it. And wash the tank too. The fuel line and squeeze bulb is long enough to set the fuel tank on the settee without unplugging the fuel line to the outboard.
The tank sits on two perpendicular [port to starboard] 1/4 inch x 1 inch x full width UHMW strips glued atop those factory molded ridges designed to hold the tank up off the deck so water can run into the scuppers. I did not want to deface the gel coat layer of those ridges by allowing the plastic tank to vibrate the hard gel coat off those ridges. This would be exacerbated if the tank was metal.
During winter storage the tank comes out and any left over gas/oil mixture of 50 to 1 is syphoned into my Ford Expedition. [Imagine, some drivers actually dump a little Marvel Mystery Oil [MMO] in the fuel tank to lube the upper end and valve guides. Being of Jewish decent every shekel counts.]
skip.
Bob, the total cost was about $5,500 all purchased from Hutchins you could save some money if you sourced the parts your self.
I picked up the parts from the factory, they are only 3 hr. from me.
It is not a hard project to do if you have basic glassing skills and a hand drill.
I didn't use there engine mounts, I built up the stringers and made my mounts from steel.
There's not a lot of pictures but I will post what I have.
Always happy to pass along any help.
David
There is no need to install a blower for a below deck gas tank that is vented and filed outside.
I do agree that a Natural Ventilation System is a good idea for all boats
The tank must be an approved tank for below deck.
This is from the USCG 2003 BOATBUILDER'S HANDBOOK | PART 1
Sec. 183.610—Powered ventilation system
(a) Each compartment in a boat that has a permanently installed gasoline engine with a cranking motor must:
(1) Be open to the atmosphere, or
(2) Be ventilated by an exhaust blower system.
Sec. 183.620—Natural ventilation system
(a) Except for compartments open to the atmosphere, a natural ventilation system that meets the requirements of Sec. 183.630 must be provided for each compartment in a boat that:
(1) Contains a permanently installed gasoline engine;
(2) Has openings between it and a compartment that requires ventilation, where the aggregate area of those openings exceeds 2 percent of the area between the compartments, except as provided in paragraph (c) of this section;
(3) Contains a permanently installed fuel tank and an electrical component that is not ignition protected in accordance with Sec. 183.410(a);
(4) Contains a fuel tank that vents into that compartment; or
(5) Contains a non-metallic fuel tank:
Quote from: breeze on July 28, 2013, 09:01:00 PM
There is no need to install a blower for a below deck gas tank that is vented and filed outside.
I do agree that a Natural Ventilation System is a good idea for all boats
The tank must be an approved tank for below deck.
This is from the USCG 2003 BOATBUILDER'S HANDBOOK | PART 1
Sec. 183.610—Powered ventilation system
(a) Each compartment in a boat that has a permanently installed gasoline engine with a cranking motor must:
(1) Be open to the atmosphere, or
(2) Be ventilated by an exhaust blower system.
Sec. 183.620—Natural ventilation system
(a) Except for compartments open to the atmosphere, a natural ventilation system that meets the requirements of Sec. 183.630 must be provided for each compartment in a boat that:
(1) Contains a permanently installed gasoline engine;
(2) Has openings between it and a compartment that requires ventilation, where the aggregate area of those openings exceeds 2 percent of the area between the compartments, except as provided in paragraph (c) of this section;
(3) Contains a permanently installed fuel tank and an electrical component that is not ignition protected in accordance with Sec. 183.410(a);
(4) Contains a fuel tank that vents into that compartment; or
(5) Contains a non-metallic fuel tank:
So the bilge which is where the gasoline from a tank installed such as yours will leak to has a natural venting system? The problem is not to protect from the normal operation of the fill or vent it is to protect from an inadvertent leak and the resulting vapors. That is how the explosions take place, normally from the spark created from the starter on the motor but from any ignition source. My electrical panel with spark producing devices is just above the bilge and it is also has a trapped compartment from the bridge deck. It cannot be naturally ventilated and neither can yours unless you punch a hole in the bridge deck.
Not sure what point you are trying to make but I hope it is not to convince folks that it is safe to install a below decks GASOLINE tank that can leak and cause vapors to form in a trapped compartment without a blower system.
I have thought about this a lot. I then remembered that the Atomic 4 was nicknamed the atomic bomb. This was for a reason.
Diesel is safer in boats, gas is better kept in ventilated areas.
It seems that it would be easier to carry Jerry Jugs.
I would definitely shy away from a gasoline tank mounted inside the boat for the reasons mentioned.
If I was looking at a CP23, and saw an inboard gas tank with three holes drilled (one for fill, one one vent, and one line to the motor)...I would walk away right there--vent fan or not. I would be thinking "What else has this owner done that is unsafe?" Not to mention needing to fix three holes and lord knows what else in terms of brackets.
I'm thinking either get a large 6 gal tank or tie a plastic gas can to the stern rail on days you need a lot of range (presumably for crusing for a few days) or both.
Easy, quick, cheap, removable.
KISS! Don't reinvent the wheel. Salty, once again, is right on! The 23's are simple boats so why complicate it? Just my opinion. It would seem that installing a below decks gas tanks is altering the boat contrary to the designers and builders intention.
Bob23