Finally mounted the New Nissan Sailpro that had been sitting in my back shed for three months. Took advantage of a midweek lull in ramp use and used the Corp of Engineers ramp loading dock. Backed my 23 in and tied it off so that I could wade in knee deep to work. Was working by myself so very difficult getting the 9.9 off. :P Mounting the SailPro, however, was a breeze at 45 lbs. lighter.
This was the first time this motor had ever been started since factory testing, and it started on the first pull. Additionally, the pull was very easy (auto decompression of some sort?), unlike the 9.9 which was a bear to manually start. I idled around for 15 minutes at 1150 RPM, then took it up to 2500 RPM and just motored around for about another half hour, following the break in schedule in the manual. Ran fine at both settings, about 2.3 knots at the latter. Then had to come back, had to be home. When I docked, I grabbed the spring assist mount to lift the motor and pulled with the same vigor it used to take to lift the 9.9. I almost fell back in the cockpit, as the lighter motor required almost no effort on my part to lift it.
I bought one of those 20 buck tachs to check break in and get an indication of best fuel consumption, speed combo. Really neat, it is one of those you just wrap a wire around the spark plug cap and stick the tack on the steering handle. It measures RPM, hours of use, number of times started.
So next time up I'll finish the break in and finish my review. But so far, I'm very happy with the purchase. My back is happy and the motor mount is happy. It does vibrate more than the two cylinder 9.9 but not annoyingly and I can live with that for the other benefits. ;D
What of this "tach" you speak of?!?!?
I have never seen one of those (I do know what your talking about actually, just being a goof)
What is the brand and model? I might think about putting one on my new sailpro, as they are pretty specific of the break in..... but no way to know RPM........
Mac
Quote from: MacGyver on June 19, 2013, 06:20:58 PM
What of this "tach" you speak of?!?!?
I have never seen one of those (I do know what your talking about actually, just being a goof)
What is the brand and model? I might think about putting one on my new sailpro, as they are pretty specific of the break in..... but no way to know RPM........
Mac
This is the one I got. It is $27 now but there are others for $16 up. Got it on Amazon. Works great, takes about 5 minutes to install
Hardline Products HR-8061-2 Hour/Tachometer with adjustable input, Resettable MAX RPM and Log Book
hi Brack.. thanks for the info.. my sailpro just arrived this week. i will be installing it on the boat this weekend.. but, tomorrow i will order the tach that you mentioned. what a great idea.. this was a very timely post! the boat won't actually get into the water till mid week next week, so there should be plenty of time for the tach to arrive.. jt
I'm sure both of you have read the notification in the five or six different places they put it in the packing and literature, but don't forget it comes from the warehouse with the oil drained and you have to fill it before use. And if it has to be transported laid down with the oil in it, handle side down and elevated a couple of inches at the top. Laid mine on a chunk of 4 x 4 with a piece of old carpet over it.
brackish,
It is just the engine oil right? Lower unit oil is full I think...... I'll probably check it just in case......
Mac
Quote from: MacGyver on June 20, 2013, 07:26:56 AM
brackish,
It is just the engine oil right? Lower unit oil is full I think...... I'll probably check it just in case......
Mac
Yep, engine oil., No mention in the literature about having to fill the gear oil before first use, just a blurb on how to change it.
Please update reviews of the sailpro this summer. I had a Nissan 6 hp, 2003 and had lots of starting, carb related problems. Yes I used good gas, marine stabil etc. I'm a little gun shy so would like to hear from the new sailpro owners.
I like mine. But it did foul a plug and the carb gummed up once. But all that is easy to fix.
I have about 50 hours on it/ 3.5 years old.
I have not had the same luck starting as Brackish though. My wife can start it but barely. And usually takes two-three pulls.
Otherwise it has been very reliable and the performance is excellent. I only ever give it about 1/3 of the throttle. Beyond that it just gets really noisy and shaky. I don't notice anymore speed on the GPS and I'm sure it uses more fuel.
Which brings up another pro.....this thing sips fuel. I think it will use 3 gallons in 6 hours at wide open throttle. Which i never do. And with the external tank, at the end of the day I just pour the left over gas (usually about 5/6 of a tank) into my truck. The one time the carb clogged up, the gas had been sitting for a little over three weeks with no stabil.
It is a little loud and not as smooth as my old Yamaha 2hp, but performance wise, it is excellent! Probably a bit of overkill on my 19 but I bet it would be perfect on a 23.
In calm water on an inland lake the 25" shaft might be a bit too long but great in a heavy chop. It tilts great (almost horizontal) and therefore I hardly need to adjust the motor mount. I keep it about half way up/down.
I had mine foul a plug as well but it turned out to be my fault. Any excess oil in the crankcase causes problems for the Tohatsu. It foams and makes it's way up the PCV and gets into the carb which gums it and fouls the plug. Be sure not to overfill the crankcase when changing the oil.
Definitely agree about it sipping fuel. Last weekend I was motoring straight into the wind (between 20-25MPH) and waves (2-3 feet), towing a dinghy and had it at maybe 3/4 throttle doing between 4-5 knots for about an hour and a half (roughly 7 miles) and it used less than a quarter of a tank of fuel.
Shawn
I used to foul plugs on a Nissan 6 too. I felt the culprit was the need to use the choke excessively, but not sure.
Much happier with a smoke belching Yamaha 2 stroke in that regards
Quote from: Billy on June 20, 2013, 02:13:27 PM
I like mine. But it did foul a plug and the carb gummed up once. But all that is easy to fix.
I have about 50 hours on it/ 3.5 years old.
I have not had the same luck starting as Brackish though. My wife can start it but barely. And usually takes two-three pulls.
Otherwise it has been very reliable and the performance is excellent. I only ever give it about 1/3 of the throttle. Beyond that it just gets really noisy and shaky. I don't notice anymore speed on the GPS and I'm sure it uses more fuel.
Which brings up another pro.....this thing sips fuel. I think it will use 3 gallons in 6 hours at wide open throttle. Which i never do. And with the external tank, at the end of the day I just pour the left over gas (usually about 5/6 of a tank) into my truck. The one time the carb clogged up, the gas had been sitting for a little over three weeks with no stabil.
It is a little loud and not as smooth as my old Yamaha 2hp, but performance wise, it is excellent! Probably a bit of overkill on my 19 but I bet it would be perfect on a 23.
In calm water on an inland lake the 25" shaft might be a bit too long but great in a heavy chop. It tilts great (almost horizontal) and therefore I hardly need to adjust the motor mount. I keep it about half way up/down.
What is the best way to clean a gummed carb on the sailpro
I take it off , two long bolts, and disconnect the fuel lines.
Then I take it apart, be careful not to tear up the gaskets, and spray it with carb cleaner.there are two jets. A high end and a low end. These are what usually get clogged. They are brass looking screws. One on the top,and one on the bottom. The are a few very small pin holes that need to be clear. I use a needle and then spray more carb cleaner.
But her back together and back on the engine and she should run like before.
Here is a YouTube video of a Nissan, very similar, of how to do it. Didn't watch the hole thing so I can neither confirm nor deny if this is the 100% correct way to clean the carb.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CgLdm1H0EIU&feature=youtube_gdata_player
That being said, there are several videos out there on the YouTube interwebs that should be helpful.
But I think the main thing is preventative care. Don't leave gas in the tank for more than a few weeks (I pour mine into my truck after each use), use a stabilizer, and I always flush my engine with fresh water after each trip (I'm in salt water) and when i flush it, I disconnect the fuel line fro the tank and let it run until all of the gas is out of the carb.
Good luck!
Billy,
Thanks for the info on carb cleaning. I may have over filled the motor with oil myself. That could have been my problem. Im sold on the marine stabil. I now have an 8 hp 2 stroke on the cp 23 but will have a 4 stroke down the road so that's for the good info.
Ok, finished the break in with a couple of motor trips on windless days. A few issues to resolve. I stay in water and like to lift my motor out and tilt it up enough to keep the prop and lower foot out of the water. When I lifted the motor to the top mount position it would not tilt to lock. I could not figure out why and forgot my owners manual. So next trip experimented and found that I had to lift the mount to the middle position and then the motor tilts all the way up until it is almost horizontal with the foot sticking way out. Don't like that so will probably devise a quick connect strap to raise it to 45 degrees.
Additionally, the tiller up and down pivot is very soft and loose, so it will always fall down and contact the stern of the boat and then vibration will cause the twist grip throttle to move and change the set speed. Got to figure out how to tighten it. On my Suzuki it is very tight and will stay in any position.
Still playing with the RPM's to find the "sweet spot" that speed where everything having to do with the motor, mount and boat seem to be in harmony, least noise, vibration and tail end squat. It seems to be at about 4K which puts the boat speed just under 5 knots. My Suzuki 9.9 was a little lower and moved the boat at just over 5 knots, the difference 4 HP makes I guess.
Overall very happy with this motor, primarily because of the weight difference between it and 9.9 it replaced.
One puzzling thing, the manual says that this particular motor is designed to operate between 5-6K RPM's. Post break in WOT only gets me to 4800. could be the tack is faulty, but it only measures spark plug fires so not sure. Could that be the impact of the high thrust prop?
my friend has a brand new sailpro and I notice the tiller throttle on his is very loose as mine (a 2011) stays put. Must be the newer longer tiller?
"One puzzling thing, the manual says that this particular motor is designed to operate between 5-6K RPM's. Post break in WOT only gets me to 4800. could be the tack is faulty, but it only measures spark plug fires so not sure. Could that be the impact of the high thrust prop?"
A non 'high thrust' prop would reduce your WOT RPM, not raise it. If you are getting to 4800 you could maybe go even lower pitch (higher thrust) but it would be hard to find a prop like that. There used to be a company listing a 5" pitch prop for the Tohatsu but I tried ordering one as an experiment and it was never delivered.
Shawn
OK hopefully the final report on this thing. I went out today and motored a lot. The purpose of the trip on this hot, windless day was to try to find a place on Bay Springs Lake that had a gradual sloping sand bottom where I could anchor in waist deep water and clean the bottom in water. Mission failed due to big storms coming up when I finally found a suitable place (most of the lake drops off deep quickly from the shore), so I scratched the mission and went in. However, some things I've learned about the Sailpro. It will not give me hull speed (6.02 knots) at least with a dirty bottom. I can get about 5.7 out of it at WOT. Admittedly, I'm running a little heavy with 3200 displacement on the IV model and with the things I've added. However, it will give me a nice steady smooth 5.2 knots with the twist grip open about 35% but the RPM's at 80%. That is all I ever ran the old motor at. I've run this motor about 4 hours by the meter, and the fuel gage shows I've used less than a quarter of a 3.2 gallon tank. It is a gas sipper. I've found that unlike the old motor that needed to be at the lowest mount setting, this one works better at the middle which gives better access to the controls. The lower setting is always available if I'm ever in heavy seas to avoid cavitation. I'm using alcohol free gasoline with no additives and it continues to start on the second pull every time. I also never disconnect the gas line from the motor or the tank, it has been hooked up for two months now. I've had the best luck at avoiding condensed water by following that procedure and I never run it dry. Subjectively, I think I have much better control at slow speed and reverse which is a good thing for docking.
It will do just fine.
good info on this thread. I'm about to put my new Sailpro on my CP 23.
I feel like my motor mount is not necessarily at the same height as others, because it was user installed. I can see other holes in the transom higher than where mine is mounted.
In the spirit of anticipation, haha, I am going to see how it all works, with various heights of mount, etc.
I also see that my mount is a west marine aluminum one, and all the mounts I saw at the local compac dealer were stainless and looked like the Garelick ones.
Do any of you folks have pictures of the mounting brackets on your boats, so I can see about relative heights, etc?
thanks in advance, and if you want to email them, that would be fine too.
Here is Wrinkles mount for reference.
(http://i613.photobucket.com/albums/tt211/greene2108/Com-Pac%2023/100_0413.jpg)
(http://i613.photobucket.com/albums/tt211/greene2108/Com-Pac%2023/100_0284.jpg)
Sorry about the large pic sizing.
Mike
Cool, Mike,
That looks like about the same position mine is in; you seem to have the stainless one that looks more sturdy than mine. Mine seems a tad wobbly, but I think I can tighten the locknuts to minimize that. It does seem plenty strong.
I guess the next step will be to just try it and see how it fits!
Oh, nice looking ladder; all I have is one of those that you hang over the side and put away after use. I might like a real ladder before long.
Don't tighten the mount. It's supposed to be loose. I would take it apart, clean and grease then reinstall with bolts not tight. This will allow the mount to operate smoothly. I fought my mount the first season only to realize the mount pivot bolts wee too tight.
It looks like there are two places: one is just a tad loose, and the other is real loose. I was thinking that was why the mount is wobbly. However, I'll put that thought in abeyance or, haha, obeyance, and just see how the motor fits on the mount as is. No sense looking for trouble.
Well, if it's it's loose like finger tight, that's too loose.
Seriously, take that thing apart and clean up the crud in there, perhaps lightly sand to smooth wear areas, regrease the pivot points and reassemble leaving some play in the mount so it moved up and down smoothly. You might find the bolts are really worn, or more likely the holes the bolts pass through are (alum is soft) causing the play. These old aluminum mounts tend to need some TLC by most "new" owners.
Sorry to say you CANNOT get parts for them from the manufacturer.
Be careful of the spring pressure, and I'm not suggesting folks should take apart the more heavy duty stainless mounts. The spring pressure on those is much greater than the old aluminum mounts, and looks a bit dangerous. Would hate to see anyone get hurt, I sure do not want to take mine apart! But I've had the aluminum versions apart with no problem.
I'll have a look when I get back to the boat; the spring is definitely strong! What I'll also do is take a picture of the parts I'm talking about, and we can discuss further. That will give me a chance to try to put in a picture! haha!
Oh, and credit where it's due: I had lost an end cap and nearly lost the pin that goes through the upright part of the mount. In other words, the handle! I couldn't find the part anywhere. I went to West Marine, and the guy tried to call his ops dept. They put him on hold. He said, heck, we have this in stock; so he opened a new mount, took the endcap off, gave it to me, and said, I'll return this and get another one for stock. The ops people can replace the endcap I took, and you are good to go.
Not too shabby!
Quote from: tigersailor on January 13, 2014, 06:50:15 PM
I'll have a look when I get back to the boat; the spring is definitely strong! What I'll also do is take a picture of the parts I'm talking about, and we can discuss further. That will give me a chance to try to put in a picture! haha!
Oh, and credit where it's due: I had lost an end cap and nearly lost the pin that goes through the upright part of the mount. In other words, the handle! I couldn't find the part anywhere. I went to West Marine, and the guy tried to call his ops dept. They put him on hold. He said, heck, we have this in stock; so he opened a new mount, took the endcap off, gave it to me, and said, I'll return this and get another one for stock. The ops people can replace the endcap I took, and you are good to go.
Not too shabby!
VERY SHABBY.......I USED TO HATE IT WHEN THAT HAPPENED! >:( Look at it from the manufacturers standpoint. Our dealers used to do that all the time. I made stationary woodworking machinery, the Delta and Biesmeyer brands. Guy comes into the store, says I need this piece. Dealer says, no problem I don't have the part, but we have that unit in stock, I'll open this box, pull the part and order a new replacement from the factory. He gets busy and forgets to order, or orders and the part comes in and no one can remember what it's for. In the meantime the unit that is missing the part is sold. Customer is P.O.ed blames it on the factory, dealer just says Oh Well, factory isn't perfect. My quality cost score, which was all important to us, goes down.
And if he returns the whole unit, guess who takes the hit. The manufacturer has to pay for the return freight, inspect and rebox the unit, and then the whole unit return cost goes against the warranty cost of quality record. :'(
OK, off the soapbox now.
AND if manufacturers were very responsive to needed replacement parts at a reasonable cost, none of that would happen ("Your call is important to us....) Sure
Quote from: atrometer on January 31, 2014, 10:41:30 AM
AND if manufacturers were very responsive to needed replacement parts at a reasonable cost, none of that would happen ("Your call is important to us....) Sure
OK back on the soapbox
When I was there, we made service parts for units that were over 60 years old. Can you imagine that, being able to buy a part for a 60 year old saw. Longest wait would be thirty days, because we did old service parts in monthly batches as needed. Were they expensive? yes, of course they were not mass produced anymore they were one offs or small "lifetime" service batches that required long setups with very short runs. Some of the parts the setup was 8 hours, the run was ten minutes.
So I guess your position is it is OK to for a dealer to shaft the manufacturer by stealing a part out of a finished good, then parlaying it into the next box, then the next............and on and on. Because in reality that's what happens. The dealer generally still sells the part at service markup, he just gets to sell many of them at that markup because of the manner in which he fills the order.
Today, you won't find parts for a 60 year old machine. Your service part life is generally as long as the contract with the most recent Chinese manufacturing facility. When that contract ends and Marketing goes elsewhere, that manufacturer will not make any more service parts, and generally the new manufacturer will not either, volume too low.
climbing back down now. ;)
I expect that the WM company needs to talk to their mfg and get some spares. That would fix everything. Especially those little covers that supposedly keep the handle on! ;0
Anyway, now I have it on there, I need to know how to keep it there. All I had was some caulk, and that doesn't look like it's going to do it.
My point was when he called for the part he was put on indefinite hold rather than being able to get the part. He knows customer service counts and the party called doesn't.
Quote from: atrometer on January 31, 2014, 04:32:11 PM
My point was when he called for the part he was put on indefinite hold rather than being able to get the part. He knows customer service counts and the party called doesn't.
Maybe I'm confused, but sounded like the WM sales rep called their own warehouse, not the manufacturer. And retailers do not like to stock repair parts because the inventory turns are way too low to make it economically feasible. So they will "steal" from the new unit box, and charge it to the manufacturer as warranty replacement, if they remember to reorder it at all. I think it is true, however, that the spring assist mount manufacturers won't sell parts that would be replaced by disassembling the unit. They quote liability issues.
Can/will one of you guys measure from the top of the transome down to the location of the top bolt in your motor mount? I have finagled my motor, lock, cable, etc on and at no point can I tilt the motor forward to get to the "click" for the prop to be stored out of the water. I think I might can do either:
a. raise the motor mount
b. put in a 2-3" shim between mount and boat to keep motor far enough out to tilt
c. try Skip's extender further out, but with the extra long shaft of Sailpro, that might be pushing it on the leverage vs. the mount.
Meanwhile, I have the motor in a good spot to be workable, and it should submerge enough for the swells, which I am going to verify sometime, no doubt. Because I want to make sure the motor can handle the swell, I'm hoping for b or c above to be the solution. However, I can see there are previous holes above where the mount is now, so I think this mount was relocated for a short shaft motor.
I'd like to optimize the solution for effectiveness; they are all somewhat of a pita, although Skip's way might be the least of that, since I wouldn't have to take the mount off to do it.
Thanks!
Bruce
The factory mount on Comfort & Joy [CP-19] is good for 20 hp. Says so right on it.
If your hanging 2 to 7 hp on it is there plenty of 'safety' when it comes to leverage?
Don't take the mount off. I would not shim the mount out past the transom. Keep it tight to the transom and bolted through the hard points inside the transom.
In my pictures, you can see where the 'pull-up' handle was ground away for clearance on the stern rub rail in addition to 'hanging it there' for extra clearance so the O/B twist handle for the throttle won't rub on the transom when in the full down position.
Now the test with the thick wood block shows the concept works. The proper way to extend the mount 'out' is to cut four new swing arms. Calculating the length. I still have a second aluminum rudder blade for sawing out the blanks and drilling for the bolts and notching for the spring.
Should work well, should look factory, should be strong like bull. "says so in the book."
skip.
Sure you are at the top spot on the mount lift? Have you tried to turn the motor somewhat and catch the tilt lock on the motor?
With my 25" sail pro, with the mount at the top lift position, and the motor at the first tilt position, and all crew off the boat, the motor clears the water by about two inches and the shift lever, steer tiller clear the top of the transom by about the same.
I'll measure for you next time up (prob. Monday).
On the 23 I would make extending the motor further from the transom the last option. The 23 already has a tendency to squat stern down and if you push that weight further out it makes that condition worse. Best is to minimize the weight with the lightest motor practical and keep it as close to the boat as possible.
Skip, I would look skeptically at that 20HP rating on the mount. Most of these mounts were rated before the heavier electric start, alternator, four stroke outboards were in service. I would only use the weight rating, not HP. An old 20HP 2 stroke may weigh the same as a modern 8 HP four stroke.
Hey Brack,
I am contemplating going for a larger size Tohatsu 9.8 four stroke, 25" shaft that weighs 92 lbs.
My 1996 tohatsu 8 hp is on its last leg.
My reason is this:
In my area of coastal NC in Southport around the moyth of the Cape Fear River we can see currents of 4.5 knots. That doesn't include any wind affect.
Hucthins recommends a minimum 8 HP in my conditions.
Your sailpro 6 hp motor pushes you at 5.2 knots with no current. This is is a 59 lb motor.
I know you referenced removing a 9.9 Suzuki from your boat. I'm guessing it was heavier than 92 lbs? Over 100?
Do you see this extra 33 lbs for the bigger motor affecting trim adversely?
So, if you have any thoughts or feedback for me not to go bigger ....I'm listening?
I'm also contemplating sailing the Keys and hopefully sailing to Bimini with a Gulf Stream current figured into the equation.
Thanks so much,
-fred-
" Skip, I would look skeptically at that 20HP rating on the mount. Most of these mounts were rated before the heavier electric start, alternator, four stroke outboards were in service. I would only use the weight rating, not HP. An old 20HP 2 stroke may weigh the same as a modern 8 HP four stroke. "
20 kilos, 44 lb. 2 stroke.
Ultimate Portability
Compact and lightweight in design, Mercury TwoStroke portables are ideal for inflatables, car toppers and small tinnies. With features like an integrated fuel tank, F-N-R and 6 trim positions, Mercury Portables are easy to handle on the water and off.
Overview
Specifications
Propshaft Rated Horsepower 5hp (3.7kw)
Max RPM at Full Throttle 4000-5000
Cylinder 1
Displacement 6.2 cu in (102cc)
Bore & Stroke (mm) 55mm 43mm
Cooling System Water-cooled
Ignition Capacitor discharge
Starting Manual
Gear Ratio 2.15:1
Gear Shift F-N-R
Steering Tiller
Alternator System Optional 4amp
Trim Positions 6
Fuel Tank Integral 2.5litres & remote 12 litres
Weight 20kg
Shaft Length
15" (M)
20" (L)
Propeller Drive Splined rubber hub
Prop Selection (Pitch) 6" - 8"
Induction System Loop-charged (1 carb)
Oil Injection Pre-mix
SmartCraft Capabilities NO
Warranty** 3 + 2 = 5 years
*Weight specification is based on the lightest version so add a few lb.
20 hp 4 stroke 120 lb.
20 hp 2 stroke Question; " Hi all .never had a 20hp 2 stroke before, are they very heavy?, can two old farts carry one, lol, mariner 20hp 2 stroke 1980's model"
Answer; "I can't answer on your specific model, but my 2str 20HP Yam weighs just shy of 50 kg.[110 lb] I can JUST lift it onto the transom on my own (but wouldn't do that every trip). Its not so much the weight as the awkwardness - two people would manage it OK - but I'd suggest a trolley if moving it more than a few metres on a regular basis."
Hummm about the same. 20 hp 2 cycle/20 hp 4 cycle 150~160 lb. But we are talking 44 to 60 lb.
Conclusion So if I can hang 150 lb 2 stroke [20 hp] on there in the old days I should be able to hang a 60 lb 4 stroke on there in the new days.
skip.
Thanks, guys, for quick responses!
Yes, I am sure I have the mount up all the way. I have tried the tilt option the way Brackish previously described it, and it just doesn't all fit. Actually, it only fits with the cowl tilted so the arm is UP, which is the wrong way for the 4 stroke to be tilted.
Now, what I'm thinking is my mount is not in the same place yours is. I may not have explained it all that well, but I can see two holes higher up, as though those holes were the original top two bolt holes. What is currently the top was probably the bottom two holes, and two new ones were added.
My mount is rated for much more weight than I have on it; I think it is for 85 lbs, and my motor is about 60.
I feel my abilities are more suited to putting a shim in close to the boat, or raising the mount back to its original height. Both are going to have to wait for warmer weather, because where I am with the boat, I'll need to motor over to the dock, back her in, and wade in to remove the motor, put it on the dock, and then climb into that locker that will freak me out, and take the mount undone. I see a backing plate made of plywood there. I don't know if it is just bolted on, or if there is something sticking it to the hull. That could become an issue when I try to move the mount higher.
The advantage of the 2-3" shim is the motor will not be higher, and I might need that in the bigger swells (maybe not, since it's a 25" shaft).
The advantage of raising the mount is, well, the motor should tilt if that is the right height.
I will have to look to see if longer arms would even work. Not real sure I want to mess with that; don't have the material, expertise, etc.
Of course, I can just leave it and not tilt it. That will let crap get onto the prop, and the motor will stay down while I sail; maybe that last one isn't that big a deal.
Bruce
Quote from: fried fish on March 07, 2014, 10:39:20 AM
Hey Brack,
I am contemplating going for a larger size Tohatsu 9.8 four stroke, 25" shaft that weighs 92 lbs.
My 1996 tohatsu 8 hp is on its last leg.
My reason is this:
In my area of coastal NC in Southport around the moyth of the Cape Fear River we can see currents of 4.5 knots. That doesn't include any wind affect.
Hucthins recommends a minimum 8 HP in my conditions.
Your sailpro 6 hp motor pushes you at 5.2 knots with no current. This is is a 59 lb motor.
I know you referenced removing a 9.9 Suzuki from your boat. I'm guessing it was heavier than 92 lbs? Over 100?
Do you see this extra 33 lbs for the bigger motor affecting trim adversely?
So, if you have any thoughts or feedback for me not to go bigger ....I'm listening?
I'm also contemplating sailing the Keys and hopefully sailing to Bimini with a Gulf Stream current figured into the equation.
Thanks so much,
-fred-
Yes, the Suzuki was 104 lbs. With a couple of people in the cockpit, I used to pull water up the scuppers. No longer with the 59 lb. motor.
I could live with the trim issues. The real problem for me was when I traveled, I felt it necessary to take the motor off the mount and put it in the truck bed. That required me to disconnect the truck from the trailer tongue, back around until the bed was under the motor, then with great difficulty I could horse it off the mount and lay it down in the truck bed, then reconnect the truck hitch to the trailer. A real PITA. Additionally, lifting it, even with the spring assist mount was very difficult and kept my back out of whack. All of those problems solved with the 59 lb. motor
I can't speak to your tidal current issues. I don't have those conditions and have never had them with this boat. You may need the extra HP and with no experience I would not try to recommend against that.
Love the sailpro - had one. It is HIGH THRUST (special prop giving more torque). Don't know, but guessing the sailpro probably gives hull speed at 1/2 or less throttle - max hp is wide open throttle to get the 6 hp. I would check w/Tohatsu/dealer and get various torque ratings at various rpm, then decide. My 2 hp Honda on my 16 gives hull speed about 1/2 - 2/3 throttle, no current/wind.
I have one mounted on my 19 using Spacers to space it off the transom some. I think they are spaced 1.5 inches using HDPE plastic.
That allows it to be one click from all the way up if turned with prop facing up. the prop facing left or right (one of the ways...) will allow the motor to sit vertical.
I will check to see if I have pictures, and if you compare the mount to yours, and need measurements to assist, I might be able to get some soon. The stern of the 19 and 23 are similar I think.... It might help.
It worked perfectly last year, and I sewed a motor cover that covers the tiller, so when it is turned just right and up it sits nicely.
Mac
"In my area of coastal NC in Southport around the moyth of the Cape Fear River we can see currents of 4.5 knots. That doesn't include any wind affect.
Hucthins recommends a minimum 8 HP in my conditions.
Your sailpro 6 hp motor pushes you at 5.2 knots with no current. "
Remember though... your hull speed (6 knots) is speed through the water. If the water is not moving your water speed (6 knots) will be the same as your land speed. (6 knots)
If you have a 4.5 knot current and go to hull speed your water speed remains 6 knots. If you are going with the current your land speed will be 10.5 knots, if you are going against it your land speed with be 1.5 knots. In both cases your water speed remains 6 knots. More HP won't change this... you are already at hull speed.
Where more HP can make a difference is in fighting a headwind.
Shawn
Thanks, McGuyver,
Any pictures or measurements would be helpful. I am wondering where to get the HDPE in thickness; I'll be checking that out while we wait for weather and time to make the adjustment.
CP-19, full speed ahead [5000 rpm] 6.4 knots with GPS readout, driven by a 44 pond, 5 hp Mercury two cycle Out Board engine mounted on a 'made longer' stock motor mount rated for 20 hp, and [20 hp 2 cycle 110 lb.] ? weight. [over glass smooth water with no wind and no current.]
skip.
Quote from: tigersailor on March 07, 2014, 07:55:50 AM
Can/will one of you guys measure from the top of the transome down to the location of the top bolt in your motor mount? I have finagled my motor, lock, cable, etc on and at no point can I tilt the motor forward to get to the "click" for the prop to be stored out of the water. I think I might can do either:
a. raise the motor mount
b. put in a 2-3" shim between mount and boat to keep motor far enough out to tilt
c. try Skip's extender further out, but with the extra long shaft of Sailpro, that might be pushing it on the leverage vs. the mount.
Meanwhile, I have the motor in a good spot to be workable, and it should submerge enough for the swells, which I am going to verify sometime, no doubt. Because I want to make sure the motor can handle the swell, I'm hoping for b or c above to be the solution. However, I can see there are previous holes above where the mount is now, so I think this mount was relocated for a short shaft motor.
I'd like to optimize the solution for effectiveness; they are all somewhat of a pita, although Skip's way might be the least of that, since I wouldn't have to take the mount off to do it.
Thanks!
Bruce
I tried to measure today and got 9-3/8" from the center of the bolt hole to the top of the rub rail on the transom on the inside bolt and about 1/8" less on the outside bolt. I'm not sure I would use those dimensions, it was very difficult to be accurate with the boat in the water, leaning over the transom. Additionally, if you mount is different from mine, it might not be relevant. the mount does work with my sail pro. As you can see I can use the first tilt position, the top mount position and put the motor a couple of inches out of the water.
(http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af200/brackish_photos/P1000556_zps4824eb44.jpg)
Thanks a bunch, Brackish.
I see your motor mount is a bit different in style from mine; good point about not using the numbers you provided.
One thing I can see for sure is the motor is much higher than mine in your top position.
I think maybe something I can do is to measure how much higher mine would be if I shifted the mount up to use the top two holes that were filled in when the PO lowered the mount.
That would give me a way to estimate how much higher my motor will go.
I also looked around the marina and saw a 21 foot boat with a 6 HP Yamaha, same type of mount I have, and he has a 2" thick spacer block of wood next to the transome to extend his motor outward. I think his is also higher mounted than mine, more like yours is. Could be I put the spacer in and raise the mount, just to make sure there is room back there for the ups and downs. We'll see when I use the boat more in the spring.
I'm still waiting for warmer weather to make any changes, and I will be able to test how the current setting works, and also to see what several inches higher would do to the range of settings for the motor.
Again, I appreciate the picture and the measurement.