I am thinking pretty hard about getting a Tohatsu 25 inch shaft 6hp for the CP19....
The guy up town only sells Mercury and is a real jerk, and always charges me full price despite the work we send him and such....
I know he railed me on the Outboard we purchased at the marina.... It was at full retail from what I can tell..... could have saved 1200 online......too big a difference to me even for convienience.... then he charged money to install it... OUCH
ANYWAY.... looking at onlineoutboards.com
Anybody used them>??
Mac
The Sailpro is a great engine! I haven't purchased from Onlineoutboards but I believe I have heard a number of good things about them. I bought my Sailpro from Defender.
Shawn
I ordered a Tohatsu 4hp 4-cycle motor from them on a Monday afternoon in May of 2012. I received the email confirmation in about an hour. The order process was a little strange in that just the engine is ordered and then when the confirmation arrives you add any other items or options you want. They told me that the one company sells the engines and the other handles the parts -- but they coordinate all. When I got the email verification I asked that they install the charging kit and added the external tank and hose. All arrived in the original engine shipping box on Friday via FedEx Ground. And the shipping was free.
I had called around for local prices here in central Florida and no one came close to their prices.
The engine started on the first pull and has run without any difficulties since.
I bought a Nissan Sailpro 25" (exactly the same as the Tohatsu) from Online Outboards a couple of months ago. They had the best delivered price I could find. The transaction was OK, Your only inconvenience is the unpacking and disposal of all the styrofoam dunnage that the unit is packed in. I can't speak to unit performance, I haven't put it on the boat yet. Waiting to do the swap when I haul it out for a trip end of next week.
Mac,
Saw your message and thought I would just reply here.
I have the 6hp tohatsu sailpro for my 19.
Pros
Lots of power. More than I ever need.
Very fuel efficient
25" shaft goes way down. In calm water I don't even need to put the motor mount down.
Tilts almost horizontal.
Has a alternator (a small one) that helps keep my battery charged up. Not really a charger but more of a maintainer.
External tank- pour the gas in my truck at the end of the day so it doesn't gunk up the carb.
Cons
Heavy
My wife(115 lbs) can start it but not easily. Same for lifting the mount. And tilting
Doesn't pull or run as smoothly has my old 2001 yamaha 2hp.
My model has the gear shift on the side (newer models have it on the front and a longer tiller)
I like it and recommend it. The 25" shaft alone is awesome in some rough water. 4hp would probably be plenty for a 19 but since it is the same engine block and same weight, might as well go with the 6hp
Mac -
have you seen the new Lehr outboards? They run on propane; either from a camp-type bottle, or with an adapter, from the 35# bottle you have for your barbeque pit.
From postings, I know you have the skill and tools to clean gnats-ass size ports on all these new EPA CARB compliant gasoline outboards. And to handle the inevitable ethanol problems.
But the brain says, even though we can, why would we? I betcha the small liquid fuel outboards will soon be going the way of the dinosaur with vapor fuels and/or electrics taking over that market range; probably up to 25 HP in a couple of years, and up to 50 not too long after that.
It's like buying a new computer; today's liquid fuel small outboard is outdated (technology wise) even before they build it.
I just realized my foot may be in my mouth; they don't do 25" shafts yet.
a 9.9 20" shaft is MSRP $3155 with a MAP of $2,629, pull start.
a 5HP 20" shaft is MSRP $2075 with a MAP of $1,729
electric start is available on the 9.9 and adds $500. not available on 5HP
Most of the smaller outboards are made by Tohatsu and re-labeled. That includes the ones sold by Mercury.
I betcha the small liquid fuel outboards will soon be going the way of the dinosaur with vapor fuels and/or electrics taking over that market range; probably up to 25 HP in a couple of years, and up to 50 not too long after that.
I'd have to take that bet, at least in the time frame you mentioned. While I wish you were right, problem is the same as it has always been. Fuel storage. I think the largest tank I could put in my 23 fuel locker is a 20 lb. cylinder which has about half the BTU content as the six gallon gasoline tank that fits in the same area. Additionally, I pass about 10 gas stations on the way to my boat, two of them selling no alcohol gasoline, but the propane fill stations are few and far between. I had to go to three places last winter to get my two 20 lb. cylinders for my shop heaters filled, and the cost per BTU was much higher than gasoline. Additionally, if I'm down a couple of gallons, I just take a gas can up with me to top off. Can't do that with propane.
You don't have to buy a Lehr, any gasoline four stroke can be converted for less than the cost difference of a Lehr. One of the guys who posts on the TSBB did so. I remember looking into his cockpit on a recent BEER cruise and seeing cases of those little green bottles. It did start and run very smoothly though.
My next door neighbor when I lived in Tulsa converted his El Camino car/truck to propane. In order to get reasonable range, the tank took up about half of the truck bed, and it was heavy.
I really like the idea of electric. I think battery technology may be moving along fairly rapidly. I can see my 23 with an inboard with the weight properly located rather than hanging on a moment arm off the stern, and the batteries making up part of the ballast.
So maybe some day......but I think we are more than a few years away.
I agree that propane is a better fuel, I used to (in a former career) convert stand -by generators to propane (from gasoline). The conversion is super simple, and all of the gasoline related issues go away. You can shut the engine off, and restart it four or five years later like it was run last week (except for the starting battery). Some generators had an exercise cycle programmed into them so the battery would stay charged.
I also agree that until our infrastructure is converted, alternative fuels will have difficulty taking hold. That has always been a big issue.
A boat that is designed to have storage batteries as partial ballast, now that is an interesting idea!!
The propane and Torqeedo had my vote as to "If I was rich this is what I would buy"
But low and behold my pockets shrivel up pretty quickly.....
I did buy the Tohatsu, my wife finally caused my finger to click the buy button after we gave the local guy a little over a week to respond back with a price........
After a few courtesy calls to try to get the ball rolling my wife had enough, and frankly so have I......
Hopefully it will be here in a week or so....... I am excited about it.
My boss told me it is the single most worthwhile investment to a sailboat. He said, if you have issues with your outboard at the dock, but head out, you have all but ruined your whole experience, as you sit and wonder if it will start, to get you back into the dock...... or if it will let you down, or maybe even give you trouble next time as well.........
Then you dont really look forward to going out.....
My last outboard wasnt unreliable, but my uncles boat was, and when we used to go down and use it years ago as a kid, I remember why we quit using the boat....... it was a hassle to start the engine.......
Mac
Now I'm really confused.
Why'd you get the Tohatsu?
I thought you WERE really rich, and expected to see both a propane and a Torqeedo on the back of the transom (hey, the stinkpotters have twin screws all the time!).
Now that I mention it, there used to be a little cat rigged boat a town or two over, with not two but entirely THREE (cheap, 12V) trolling motors mounted to a rough 2x6 plank clamped to the rail! I don't know if they ran all three off one battery, or each had it's own, but that's all they had. Of course in 500 yards they were in open water too, so then the canvas could do it's job ...
Nice to hear all the positive comments on the 25 inch 6hp Sailpro. I already ordered one to go with the new Horizon Cat, so it's good to know it was a sensible choice.
Both should be here next month, and the waiting is getting harder every day!
Thanks guys.
Derek
Derek,
My outboard is supposed to be here any minute now.......
I am sure it is hard to be waiting on not only the outboard, but the boat to go with it!
I will post pictures later of the unboxing. :)
Mac
Motor arrived a few minutes after I got home luckily, since you have to sign for it. :D
The box was beat up in a spot, but the company said it might be..... so I wasnt too worried, the foam looked intact.
Here is some pictures of un boxing it. I cant wait to get it on the boat and try it out, the prop looks to be setup for power, I have seen enough props to know that this is gonna really be a nice motor.
(http://i1241.photobucket.com/albums/gg507/JGDVS/IMG_20130523_151959_786_zps5412de48.jpg)
(http://i1241.photobucket.com/albums/gg507/JGDVS/961c2b78-4dd9-4801-9e78-f383b38fb657_zpsec64e728.jpg)
(http://i1241.photobucket.com/albums/gg507/JGDVS/IMG_20130523_152051_648_zpsfd18865a.jpg)
(http://i1241.photobucket.com/albums/gg507/JGDVS/IMG_20130523_153930_421_zpsed5e3ecd.jpg)
I am pretty excited........ my wife said it doesnt show on my face at all....... ;) ;)
(http://i1241.photobucket.com/albums/gg507/JGDVS/IMG_20130523_152201_329_zps0acfcdb1.jpg)
Mac
Congrats! Can you take a few pictures of the forward mounted gear shifter? I am curious if it looks like it can be retrofitted to the earlier Sailpros that had the shifter on the side.
Thanks,
Shawn
Shawn (and anyone else thinking the same idea)
Here are some pics for you.
First shows location of the shifter
(http://i1241.photobucket.com/albums/gg507/JGDVS/IMG_20130523_191211_146_zps654ea81c.jpg)
This next pic shows the shifter to the right, shows the linkage location, which is about mid engine, then exits to the third picture
(http://i1241.photobucket.com/albums/gg507/JGDVS/IMG_20130523_191239_419_zps26e8fe10.jpg)
The cotter pin at the top is the linkage from the forward spot, it then ties into the black plastic piece with the boss, that also levers to the linkage going up and down with the white plastic clip on it to the left....
I am assuming that you have one with the old side shift, and from the looks of it, a side shift could be put on this one if needed, maybe a small mod?
(http://i1241.photobucket.com/albums/gg507/JGDVS/IMG_20130523_191249_167_zps476d9027.jpg)
What might be able to be done is order the cowling, then the proper linkages, etc...... not real sure but I will try to look at it in the next few days to see if I can make heads or tails of it.
Mac
Please give us a review of the sail pro after some time spent in the water. I would like to hear about any starting/other issues.
I know that the original poster already bought the 6HP Tohatsu outboard online and seems to like it. But for those still wondering about buying an expensive outboard online, I also purchased a 4HP Tohatsu, 20" shaft for my Com-Pac Legacy this spring from onlineoutboards.com this April. I didn't have any problems with the delivery, credit card payment or the outboard itself. Shipment was fast, and it was exactly as ordered. I just filled it up with oil, and broke it in in my driveway while the bottom end was in a bucket of water for cooling. No issues at all.
By the way, I'm very happy with the 4HP Tohatsu for the 17' legacy. It's exactly the same design, weight and parts as the 6HP model, but with a de-tuned carburetor. (You can later buy a carb kit to make it into a 6HP motor). It does vibrate somewhat, but it's fairly quiet. By the way, all the small Nissan, and Mercury outboards are all Tohatsu's anyway, so you may as well spend a bit less and get the real brand without paying extra for a name. It's made in Japan, with the usual high quality manufacturing that country is known for.
It has plenty of power to push the 1000lb Legacy plus gear and 2-3 people to boat speed at less than half throttle (no current or heavy winds), and I like the small internal tank for short sails as I don't have to have the big external fuel tank getting in the way in the cockpit. For longer or overnight sails where I want more fuel, I have a separate 1.25 gallon fuel tank that I can use to top off the internal tank. Although it's possible, I didn't go the route of making the engine "drink" from the external tank directly. I don't like all the leaky smelly hoses dropping fuel on the cockpit floor. The fuel economy is very good.
I would not recommend purchasing a Mercury as these are fitted with a pulse operated fuel pump sharing the same casting as the carbonator that is fitted with diaphragms that fag out in the presents of ethanol.
While my friends have Nissan and other O/B's that have run fine with the same ethanol impregnated fuel.
I still like the idea of the 5 hp Briggs and Stratton air cooled [lawn mower] engines with F-N-R gear box.
skip.
Skip,
Mercury, Nissan, and Tohatsu are all the same engine, just with a different sticker. My Tohatsu, now almost 4 years old, has only given me one fit due to ethanol. And I will take responsibility for that b/c I let the fuel sit for a month or so with no stabilizer. Other that that she has been a great engine.
And pretty sure the Briggs and Stratton is not rated for salt water. Which may or may not bean issue for some here.
One of the CLR guys had the Briggs and Stratton motor. God awful noisy! Sounded just like a lawn mower. Ugly and bulky too.
I would stick to a traditional outboard name at nearly any cost.
That is the air cooled. My friend has the 2hp air cooled Honda. It is loud too, especially for a Honda.
I am currently using a fairly new Tohatsu 3.5 20" shaft on my 19 II and it works fine. I don't have any reason to purchase anything else.
V.
Quote from: Salty19 on August 05, 2013, 12:42:53 PM
One of the CLR guys had the Briggs and Stratton motor. God awful noisy! Sounded just like a lawn mower. Ugly and bulky too.
I would stick to a traditional outboard name at nearly any cost.
Would that person have been "DoppleCarl"?
If so, that was the noisiest engine I have heard...... well, besides a S-2's gas powered Sail Drive...........
Mac
Why wouldn't an air cooled engine not be salt rated?
We don't pump any salt water into any cooling jackets, and the bottom end would be sealed up against the ingress of liquids?
Anyway, the Mercury metal parts on the 5 hp are all fine, it's just the choice of the carbonator manufacture [Keihin BCK] that gulls me. Who the heck makes a carbonator with 'rubber parts' that wrinkle and fag out in the presents of ethanol? These are also the choice of carb for Harley Davidson, but with a different designed carb.
I have an 82 year old car that loves ethanol and has zero rubber parts in the Zenith built carbonator. It's 100 % metal pieces. And it carborates just fine.
skip.
With today's people, most don't work on their own mechanical things. The rubber parts help to seal up parts better than the old only metal parts. Also efficiency is in mind now as we don't all wish to guzzle up all the gasoline, etc.
The 1952 John Deere 420 in my shop does the job everyday, but you can barely find parts.....that is a problem.
Mac
"Why wouldn't an air cooled engine not be salt rated?
We don't pump any salt water into any cooling jackets, and the bottom end would be sealed up against the ingress of liquids?"
Because they were not built with any consideration of the electrolysis that will occur on the outboard by putting the outboard in salt water. The dis-similar metals in electrical contact with each other will corrode each other over time. This includes the parts of the outboard that are not even in the water.
From the Briggs and Stratton sales brochure for their outboard...
Where will you use the outboard?
Outboard motors are made for two types of water sources, fresh water and
salt water. All Briggs & Stratton outboard motors are designed specifically for
fresh water use. Salt water and brackish water is extremely corrosive and can
lead to premature failure of components.
As seen at:
http://www.briggsengineoutlet.com/pdf/motorguide.pdf (http://www.briggsengineoutlet.com/pdf/motorguide.pdf)
Page 3 of the owners manual in big print says:
"DESIGNED FOR FRESH WATER USE"
and says damage from corrosion from use in salt water is not covered under warranty.
as seen at:
http://bsintek.basco.com/BriggsDocumentDisplay/default.aspx?filename=18msBEX-nfBhU7y (http://bsintek.basco.com/BriggsDocumentDisplay/default.aspx?filename=18msBEX-nfBhU7y)
Fresh water guys just don't understand how bad electrolysis can be.
Shawn
I seem to remember when I bought my Tohatsu 3.5 for my Seapearl, that there was a salt water version, which I bought. It wasn't too much more $ than the non-salt. Plus it had reverse. It was a great little motor...2 stroke. I sold it with the Pearl.
Bob23
Those 3.5hp Tohatsu's are supposed to be wonderful engines. They may have had a saltwater version, there were several different versions of it.
All current Tohatsu's are salt water rated.
Shawn
Seagull's I assume are made for salt? Being from the U.K. ?
I did just change my sacrificial anode on my Mercury a couple of weeks ago. About half of it was gone, which is when it should be changed. I found one at West Marine about the right size, I cut her a little bit and drilled a hole in it for the bolt.
skip.
Seagull's are fun engines. They were built for salt water (based on 1930s tech) and even built to have salt water inside their gearboxes. Instead of worrying about keeping it out they just put in 140 weight oil, large bronze bearings and let the oil/salt water turn into an emulsion. Of course that also lets it leak out slowly and leave Seagull droppings. Later Seagull's had sealed lower units.
In the last 10 years or so of their life British Seagull changed what materials they used for the drive tube and tiller tubes. Those rust/rot out more than on Seagull's built 30+ years earlier.
Shawn
I dumped the hypoid modern gear oil out of the Mercury's bottom end a few years ago [somebody here made comments about the plastic bag tied to the lower end that caught the droppings seen in a posted photo] and I replaced that oil which is used in the transmission, rear end, and steering box with my Ford Model 'A' 600 oil. It's a steam engine oil and is not to be confused or considered to be 600 W, It is not 600 weight.
This stuff is so good as a lubricant and with such long chain of molecules that it won't leak past shaft slingers, or felt seals. It just doesn't leak past anything. Found in any model 'A' parts supply house.
skip.