Anybody replaced the cutlass bearing on a 27? Mine is circa 1988 and pretty wobbly. Looks like that metal bracket on the exterior where the prop shaft exits the hull ("shaft log"?) has two bolts that can be removed, and presumably this would allow the cutlass bearing to be replaced. But wow, how do you get to the mating nuts on the inside of the hull? I can see the top one above the prop shaft, but the bottom one appears to be completely hidden below. Maybe a very long socket extension could reach down there (blind) and hold the nut while the bolt is removed from outside.
Or do you leave the shaft log in place, and slide out the cutlass bearing? Looks like there are a couple of setscrews that might make this possible, but with 25 years of immersion I'd be amazed if the bearing comes out easily.
Is there an easier way? Inquiring minds need to know.
Wes
Mine's not a 27, but a 23d. Same principle I'm sure. I simply pulled the prop off using a special tool for doing so. Then loosened the two set screws on the side of the bearing, got ahold of it (about a 1/4" of it) with visegrips and tapped it out and off the shaft. I did have to do some fiberglass reinforcement on the shaft housing area because I let the cutless wobble too long before replacing it. So far, so good...it's been about a year now. Google will yeild a wealth of info on the job.
Bob
Interesting topic, touches on of the weaker spots of the CP 27. On my boat, several years ago, the screws were a bit loose and a boatyard applied epoxy (or something), basically glueing the thing in place, because they could not reach the inside nut. Now, changing the bearing (which I will have to do soon) requires drilling it all out, right?
I'm planning to get a long (20") socket driver extension and see if I can get to that lower inside nut, below the prop shaft. The upper one is easy to reach. Wish me luck; I'll report back.
Wes
Nicolina, heat will be your friend.
Epoxy hates it.
Mac
Thanks, Mac, that will be helpful. I still don't expect this to be an easy undertaking and look forward to Wes' report!
Wes:
I went through this awhile back.....here is what I went through. The bottom bolt on my boat just spun when I tried to tighten it from the outside. I suspected no nut on the inside. I'll try to shorten this story LOL !!!!
1: 1/4" extension worked best (more wiggle room) I think I used two 12" ones got mine from Harbor Freight tool.
2: Deep socket works best (you do not know how long the bolt is down there.
3. BIGEST PROBLEM !!!! the channel for the shaft log becomes a catch basin for anything dropped in that area and ends up at the back end of the channel stopping me from getting the socket on the nut. I did not realize this until I looked back there with a camera that had with a flexable shaft on it (once again Harbor Freight tools).
4. Take a coat hanger and open it up and put a 90 degree bend in it at the end, about 3/8 to a 1/2 inch long. Slide it down the bottom of the channel and see if you can drag the clutter back there out to where you can remove it. I did not realize how much junk was back there until I looked down there with the camera. Hopefully with all the clutter dragged out you can get the socket on it and unscrew the bolt.
NOW FOR WHAT I ENDED UP DOING !!!!
This was after messing with this for weeks. I took a 1/4" die grinder and ground the head off of the lower bolt. Then I knocked it through with a punch. Fished out the body of the bolt and nut with the coat hanger. To put a new nut and washer back in I did this:
Super glued the washer to the face of the nut, glued the nut into the socket so it doesn't fall out of the socket as you slide it down the channel. Now it becomes a two person operation. Once the washer and nut is up against the back inner wall of the channel have some on the outside look for the nuts theads as you kind of wiggle it around. Once he can see the threads have him slide a Phillips screw driver into the threads of the nut to center it to the clearance hole. You have to keep the nut and washer pushed up against the inner wall to hold it in position until he can get the bolt started into the threads. the super glue will usually break free when you tighten up the bolt, wiggle the socket clockwise and counterclockwise (just don't go nuts with the glue). The top nut and bolt is easy because you can see them and get at them. I know this is a painfull process but here are a few things didn't work well......
Two extensions (could not find one long enough to make it back there) have a tendency to wiggel to much as your trying to get them in position to get it the socket onto the nut. Perhaps you could tack weld them together. I could not get the socket on the nut even after dragging out all the junk back there. You can break the bond of the super glue by putting some pressure in one direction and have the person on the outside pressure it the opposite direction.
I hope all this helps...this is not a very good design (I'm a retired mechanical designer). Perhaps an inner retainer plate with two threaded holes that slipped over the shaft log and was trapped in the channel when installed would have worked better. It had been posted earlier that someone went through this and found the threads om the lower bolt eaten away and would not thighten like mine (he felt it was from electrical corrosion), do a search, I'm sure it will turn up.
Wow, that is incredibly helpful. Lowe's has a Kobalt socket extender that's 20" long, so I think I'll try that one and use your system. After you got both bolts off, what next? Does the cutlass bearing slide right off along with the exterior shaft log bracket? Or do you have to somehow drive the cutlass bearing out of the inside of the shaft tube?
I looked on Youtube last night for "cutlass bearing" and found some pretty amusing videos, but none that really addressed my situation.
Wes
I was a bit lucky that the cutlass bearing was good.....my problem was I could not tighten up the plate so I always had a leak into the shaft log channel.
Bruce
Wes:
I should be calling it the trough but I don't know how to spell it LOL !!! I don't think that is correct either.
Wes:
I think I used two 1/4" extensions because I could not get one in that was 20" long in one shot...forgot what stopped me. I had to use a universal on the end for the ratchet to tighten it.
Bruce
Wes:
Once you get the retainer plate off and take out the two set screws you should be able to press out the cutlass bearing. You know the more I think about the shaft log it must have a flange on the end with two clearance holes. I'm going to cut open the skeg on the parts boat and see how it's made...now I'm curious !!!! Has any one had the shaft log out? What does the end look like? Someone just did an engine swap to a 3 cylinder. I think he had to shorten the prop shaft. I bet he knows !!!
Quote from: Nicolina on May 08, 2013, 10:34:29 AM
Interesting topic, touches on of the weaker spots of the CP 27. On my boat, several years ago, the screws were a bit loose and a boatyard applied epoxy (or something), basically glueing the thing in place, because they could not reach the inside nut. Now, changing the bearing (which I will have to do soon) requires drilling it all out, right?
Did they epoxy the plate to the skeg or the cutlass bearing in the tube. Were the set screws loose or the flange bolts?
I don't know exactly. The boat was in teh yard for other work, but they noticed the bolt was loose, they could not tighten it and epoxied it. By the time they told me the boat was in teh water, but they showed me on another boat - not resembling the Compac vey much - what they did. So my understanding is that they epoxied the the screw to the plate to the skeg. I'll find out ...
Hi
I bet it was the lower bolt on the plate, seems that is the most common problem. I don't remember if the threads on the one that would not tighten up on my boat were corroded away. This weekend I will cut open the skeg on the junk boat and see hoe all that's inside there. Now that my curiosity is up.
Bruce
Bruce - I need to replace my cabin sole (the larger section, approx. 23" x 72") due to water damage. Do you have the one from your parts boat available?
wes, have you tried east teak? They are out of a town called Donalds in SC, (800) 338-5636. Their prices are great though I havnt ever had anything shipped since their only 45 min away.
It was definitely the lower bolt. I think they managed to tighten the bolt on top.
Quote from: Wes on May 08, 2013, 10:24:20 PM
Bruce - I need to replace my cabin sole (the larger section, approx. 23" x 72") due to water damage. Do you have the one from your parts boat available?
Hi:
It was damaged when the boat went up the on rocky shoreline. It actually pushed the cement ballast in the keel through the floor in the galley. I have never posted pictures of the parts boat on this website because it is such a sad sight to see!!! I'm sailing out of Narragansett Bay (Rhode Island) and have just retired so this season I'll be out there cruising allot.
Bruce
S/V Allure
Swansea, MA
Quote from: Koinonia on May 09, 2013, 06:47:26 AM
wes, have you tried east teak? They are out of a town called Donalds in SC, (800) 338-5636. Their prices are great though I havnt ever had anything shipped since their only 45 min away.
Hi:
When you did your engine upgrade did you take out your shaft log? If so what does it look like at the back end. Is there a flange on it with two clearance holes for the two mounting bolts that mount the cutlass bearing housing? I don't think they (ComPac) would put a nut and washer up against the fiberglass inside surface. I believe the flange and tube (with the two small set screws) that contains the cutlass bearing in it to be a separate piece. But what does the inside look like?
Bruce
Bruce,
I didnt take mine out since it had just gotten its cutlass bearing replaced a couple years prior before I owned it and it didnt have any uneven wear. Im not sure what the back of the log on the 27 is like on the backside though When I replaced one on an Island Packet I had it just had the upper and lower bolt holding it on which the lower one was a PITA to get to since the best way to secure the bolts was to have nylocks on the inside. I dont see why ours would be differant and getting it out may be a pain if it was put in with 5200. May as well had a 3 year old a black sharpie in a white house when it comes to that stuff, it has its places to used, but not on EVERYTHING!!!
This may be a question to call Gerry about down at the factory!
Hi:
I'm going to put a sawzall to the skeg of the parts boat this weekend to put an end to this "mystery". I'll open up the channel for the shaft log from the outside and take a picture to post. Also interested to see how the set screws for the cutlass bearing are positioned. A fellow at the marina said that they should not be 180 degrees apart but 120 degrees apart so that it does not eggshape the cutless bearing. I'll look tomorrow, he has me curious and I can understand what he means about squishing the bearing.
Bruce
Well, alrighty then. Spent half a day yesterday removing the prop, shaft, and stern tube to get to the bottom of this situation. Here's the deal, for those of you contemplating a cutlass bearing replacement.
Here's the stern tube/shaft log and prop shaft out of the boat. The tube is not glassed in - the only thing holding it in place are the two bolts and 3M 5200. Note the larger diameter at the aft end, where the cutlass bearing slides in, and the narrower diameter of the main tube. I was able to extract the prop shaft into the interior of the boat, but had to drop the rudder to get the stern tube out.
(http://i1108.photobucket.com/albums/h411/wnewman/8757ef27b669922fcda7262f722d5221.jpg)
Close up of the business end:
(http://i1108.photobucket.com/albums/h411/wnewman/b77043c6013a2b8c137f7d8c4227dada.jpg)
Looking into the opening in the hull with tube removed. Took this opportunity to hose out 25 years of accumulated bilge gunk:
(http://i1108.photobucket.com/albums/h411/wnewman/a84b161f83e3884c39f7d0a139e431ab.jpg)
Dropped a 1/2" galvanized fender washer down the top of tube. This washer (from Lowe's or HD) is conveniently 1-3/8" outer diameter, same as internal diameter of the tube. In this shot you can see the washer resting on top of the cutlass bearing:
(http://i1108.photobucket.com/albums/h411/wnewman/c47694dd1e4e88149e60577a8b9f8f34.jpg)
Slid a 1-1/4" wood dowel (also from Lowe's or HD) down the tube, against the washer, and tapped with a hammer. Had soaked the cutlass bearing in penetrating oil the previous day, and removed the two small set screws:
(http://i1108.photobucket.com/albums/h411/wnewman/e358a852c410bf3cf0671410e9e761c6.jpg)
Cutlass bearing halfway out. Note the "dimples" that allow the set screws to have a little bite into the side of the bearing. New replacement bearing will need to be similarly dimpled (carefully, with a drill bit inserted into the set screw hole) after installation:
(http://i1108.photobucket.com/albums/h411/wnewman/1f54e1dfc86e878f034299d103ebebee.jpg)
That's it - not exactly a piece of cake, but I will sleep easier with the new cutlass bearing installed, and knowing the stern tube is securely rebedded and bolted with new hardware.
Wes
Hey Wes:
Great pictures thank you for posting them. This has been weighing on my mind with our '86 C27 hull 16.
Was the bearing in pretty good shape when you got it out?
Were there nuts on the ends of the bolts? If so how did you get to them?
Were you having any problems with the shaft, tube, bearing assembly that made you take the plunge?
Again thank you for the post.
regards charlie
Charlie - my only motivation for the project was that the prop shaft was floppy inside the cutlass bearing, either because the bearing was worn or the rubber had hardened (or both). Other than that, the bearing appeared to be in excellent shape when removed.
Yes, there are nylock nuts on the inside end of the bolts. I bought a 24" extension for my ratchet driver. The upper nut was easy. The lower one was impossible because of all the accumulated bilge gunk and debris. I ended up sawing off the head of the lower bolt from the outside with a hacksaw - not too hard.
The job overall was tedious but not as difficult as I had feared. It also gave me an opportunity to completely remove and inspect the stuffing box, whereupon I found that the large nut had a serious crack that could have led to failure.
Wes
http://youtu.be/FOwr3l6bkGA
Correct Wes, to say, all it takes is money.
However, it shows one how to build your own.
Does not look too difficult. [cut the right sized diameter tube long ways on a band saw]
And of course if it's a through the hull this is junq`ue.
If you search around in a W.W. Granger catalog there are a few rubber couplers, either pinned or splined, that can be used between the motor output flange and the propeller shaft flange. Allows for misalignment, vibration and the moment of tourq`e and moment of bend of shaft. If splined a little machining may be necessary.
Looking at your pictures, a 10mm aluminum bronze plate cut for the inside of the shaft alley with two threaded bronze studs tigged on that go through the holes in the fiberglass keel seems doable. Could make a face plate for the outside and make a sandwich with copious amounts of a favorite goop between.
Of course the job's done and I'm just bloviating.
skip.
I'm sure that tool would be very useful for someone doing this job often enough to make a $395 investment worthwhile, on boats that have prop shaft struts.
another way to get a sticky cutlass bearing out is with a hack saw blade as the metal is usually brass and soft. The sawing is done very carefully by hand cutting through the bearing on opposite sides. A simple tap with a mallet and screw driver will pop each half right out.
Good to see what size down works best, to bad its still a pain to get the shaft out when the boat is all together. When I repowered, my shaft and flange wouldnt ever separate, even with it out of the boat, on a press and heat applied. Needless to say it came out while the engine was out and is still that way in the boat. Dissimilar metal corrosion can really make things stick together!
Wes,
Nice job on cutlass bearing replacement.
Your photos brought back memories of my replacing cutlass bearings on an Island Packet 35 and a Krogen 36 Trawler. Wound up cutting (gently with hacksaw) to get both out. What fun!?
Wishing you a very smooth turning shaft and watertight seal.
capt_nemo