hey guys,
I want to refinish the companion way Teak and wanted to try removing them so I can work at my work bench.
I tried this once and stopped as I could not get them loose despite removing the screws, I thought maybe they were glued in place so I left them.
I would like to remove the Teak hand rail on the cabin too but am concern of not being able to get them off or back on without damaging them.
Suggestions Please.
Glenn B.
This is the voice of experience talking. Bite the bullet and refinish them in place. Be sure to tape everything well!
My brand new Sun Cat came with absolutely no protective finish on any of the wood, outside or inside. Wanted to do a proper job by removing whatever I could to refinish at the bench but ran into the same problem as you did. Rather than take a chance on breaking or ruining the teak on the cabin top and around the companionway I coated them in place with several coats of Sikkens Cetol Marine Light. That was 38 months ago - and the finish is still going strong. I do keep a WHITE Polytarp cover over my boat when not in use for weather and UV protection down here in SW Florida.
capt_nemo
Capt Nemo,
Yep, you did the same thing I did.
I got real tired of repeating the teak oil every six months to keep it looking nice.
Even using the teak oil I had to sand and tape everything off because I couldn't get the parts off the boat.
I have 3 coats of the same Cetol oil as you have used, still not really happy with the results but it does hold up better.
I'm now going over the Cetol oil with the gloss finish.
I saw several sail boats at the Lake Havasu event in Febuary and talk to a few owners, they used the gloss over the Cetol oil which really looked nice, So,,,,,,
That's what I'm doing now, just wish I could be doing the work on my bench!
I keep a tarp over my boat too.
Glenn
Cetol is a very nice finish.
I use the Teak Light on my cabin side eyebrow trims with the gloss overcoat. I also use it on my dorade box on the foredeck. The rest of my teak recieves Flagship varnish, a very hard finish but very labor intensive.
In speaking with a tech from the Cetol company, he noted that the gloss will give some extra life to the finish. One can also recoat with Cetol over the gloss if sanding lightly first. Pretty good stuff. Not as hard as varnish but a very versatile finish. I use it on my Force 5 also.
Bob23
I went through the painful process of removing all my teak. It is bedded in 3M 5200 from the factory, and getting it off is no joke. Debond Marine Formula will loosen the 5200 enough for careful removal, except for the eyebrows which you are almost guaranteed to break. Plus the eyebrows are attached with wood screws, not through bolts, so you will have to drill out the teak plugs to get the screws out, a delicate operation in itself. I agree with finishing all the teak in place, unless like me your teak is so far gone that replacement is the only solution.
I'm going to join in the general enthusiasm for Cetol here.Took me a while to get used to the softer finish compared to the hardness of traditional varnish, but I have to say the UV resistance is outstanding, and when it does begin to deteriorate it doesn't seem to flake or peel off like harder varnishes; it just gets dull. Another great feature is that it doesn't require sanding between coats, although I do scuff mine up a little with 320 grit because I'm conservative that way. After a year outdoors in the North Carolina sun, my Cetol looks like new. Don't even know if I will bother with a seasonal touch-up coat this year. Be sure to pick your color of Cetol carefully.The "original" color has a strong yellow/amber tint that I didn't like. I prefer either Marine Light or Natural Teak. Even those have quite a bit of tint to them - I think this is how the UV resistance is achieved.
Wes
I used to use Cetol and have been using Semcoe sealer the last few years. Since it's water based, it doesn't require sanding before a coat or two in the spring. The wood looks like freshly cut teak - no gloss.
(http://www.rahnlawton.com/webpics/HC%20after%20wax.jpg)
I also use it on Our Horizon Cat, Kailani and find it to be the least hassle of any teak finish I have used so far. Any hard finish like Cetol will have to be stripped at some point a real pain in the A..! All I do is scrub the teak with a detergent like Spray Nine (like 409 on steroids!) and rinse to remove dirt and mildew as needed. Since our boat sits in the FL sun(without a cover) I need to add a fresh coat every 3-4 months. That being said recoating our boat is a snap and takes about an hour. As Rahn said Semco is water based so spills and cleanup are a cinch. Short of just scrubbing the teak and letting it "go natural" it is the easiest(all things considered) teak finish I have used in my 40+ years of sailing. :)
Rahn:
Does the Semcoe sealer build up? I just recently bought a new Adirondack Guideboat with all very high quality Cherry trim. I can't bring myself to varnish it and I wouldn't think of Cetol. It recieves a coat of oil from the shop but I'd like to seal it up a bit more but I don't need another boat's woodwork to maintain.
I thought about hand rubbing a thinned coat of Epifanes satin varnish but haven't decided yet. Any thoughts?
Bob23
The answer is no. Semco does not build up. That is one of the things I like about it. When it starts to fade just scrub and add another coat. Because Semco is about the consistency of water, it flows on easily and soaks into the wood. Fresh drips/runs wipe up easily from fiberglass and dried spots can be cleaned off with rubbing alcohol. ;D Not sure how it would work on cherry but "Natural" Semco would be a good color match.
Bob23,
Consider using Boiled Linseed Oil. Leaves surface soft, but sealed.
Saturate well, let soak a while, wipe off excess. Periodically retreat wood surface.
Try it on an inconspicuous spot to see how it works.
It is an old fashioned wood preservative and sealer. Used it on all the homemade hardwood pieces on Highland Lass.
capt_nemo
(http://i1125.photobucket.com/albums/l594/CPYOA/Highland%20Lass/100_1193.jpg)
Thanks, all. Iv'e seen Nemo's boat in person and can attest to it's museum quality beauty. I'll test Semco and boiled linseed oil on some scraps before I comitt to anything. I have a friend in Barnegat Light who repairs and maintains some beautiful catboats and other small sailing craft. I'll ask him.
Ahhh...Capt Nemo: Must you temp us with thsoe teak fiddle blocks in the photo? That's not very nice. They are beautys. I just ordered a Ronstan Series 50 for the Compac. If I lived closer, I'd commission one from you. Or steal yours!!!!!! Hahaha!
Bob23
Follow up question,
Can you wet sand the Cetol oil after a few days of curring?
I have 3 coats of gloss over 3 coats of Cetol ! It looks pretty good and a lot better than just the Cetol Oil it self.
I'm use to wet sanding other wood projects Ive done which really gives the wood a nice rich luster, just don't know if you can wet sand Cetol ?
Glenn
I don't know, Glenn. But I have called the tech people at Cetol and found them very helpful. The number is probably on the can.
Cap't Nemo has extensive experience with Cetol so he'll probably know the answer.
Bob23
Yes, you can wet sand after curing. Add additional coats (3-4 total, or more) to compensate for the material removed.
Glenn,
First, for many years on several boats I have used Cetol Marine Original and Cetol Marine Light outside and inside, which are "Finishes" that build up thickness with additional layers applied and do not require sanding between coats. A light sanding before the final coat is sometimes done. Maintenance coats are applied when needed after scrubbing LIGHTLY with a Scotch Brite Pad and mild detergent, rinsing thoroughly with clear water, and allowing to dry completely.
I'm not familiar with the "Cetol oil" you mention. If is is the same stuff, YES you can wet sand to your heart's content after it has thoroughly dried (a few days).
I have religiously AVOIDED using the Gloss over the Cetol base coats for three reasons. First, I like the soft satin or matte type effect using only the base coatings. Second, if the Gloss finish weathers or rubs off (with hand or foot pressure) in spots or irregular patterns, it is hard to apply maintenance coats that present a uniform appearance. Third, to achieve a uniform base to recoat I would most likely have to sand, which I strongly abhor!
Happy sanding!
capt_nemo
Capt Nemo,
Yes, it's the Cetol marine finish I'm using.
I didn't like it when I first put it on, had a orange tint to it, I used the light natural color. It does last a lot longer than Teak oil.
The gloss for me looks a bit better to me as I like the luster.
At times I wish I would had used some type of hard finish as this stuff just seems too soft even when it's dried thoroughly .
Glenn
Rahn,
Your teak looks great. I think I'm going to try the Semco. Did you use Clear or Gold???
Thanks,
TedW
I use the natural. All the teak on my boat was in rough shape when I bought her as the DPO must have power washed it before slapping a coat of Cetol on it. it was rough to the touch and had to be sanded. I then used the two part cleaner and brightener from Semcoe and have applied two coat maintenance since then. It lasts the entire season up here in upstate New York.
Glenn,
If you like a hard glossy finish consider Epiphanes Wood Finish Gloss. It applies like varnish AND, there's NO SANDING BETWEEN COATS provided the surface is recoated within 72 hours. That's why I like it so much. It builds up nicely and looks great. Used it to coat all the brightwork on Highland Lass several years ago and am quite satisfied with its performance. (The boat is garage kept.)
(http://i1125.photobucket.com/albums/l594/CPYOA/Highland%20Lass/100_1228.jpg)
capt_nemo
Looks like you exhibited Highland Lass at a show...how'd you do? Thanks for the Epifanes advice. I used their satin hand rubbed varnish belowdecks on my 23 exclusively and love the look and durability. I may try the gloss on the exposed teak.
Bob23
Capt- Nemo ,
That is the look I'm looking for!
Can you put Epifanes over Cetol light or would I have to strip it to the bare Teak and start over?
Glenn
Glenn,
Sorry, I don't know about the chemical compatibility between Cetol Light and Epiphanes products.
For answers, you could read the Epiphanes application instructions (probably available on line), or contact Epiphanes directly by phone or e-mail. Experimenting yourself, even on a piece of scrap Teak, could be an expensive exercise.
Bob23,
Highland Lass won the "Best in Show, People's Choice Award" at the 2009 Great IV Florida Gulf Coast Small Craft Festival, held in Cortez, Florida.
capt_nemo
And well deserved, Capt! Photos don't do the Lass justice. Congrats. Do you get to sail her often?
Bob23
Capt Nemo,
I forgot to ask, after wet sanding the Cetol , can you then buff it with a furniture or wood polish to bring out the luster?
Usually the hard finishes I put on other wood projects I put on 2-3 layers, lightly sanding between coats, The final coat, i then wet sand to get really flat smooth, this leaves it like a flat finish. I then use a wood polishing compound to buff and bring out the high gloss shine.
This leaves it very smooth without any imperfections in the finish with a mirror finish .
Glenn
Bob23,
Not as often as I'd like, too much else going on AND, I do have a Com Pac Sun Cat with demands on my time as well! AND, did I mention my motorcycle????!!!!
Glenn,
Don't know, have never done it - something you might have to experiment with to see if the finish holds up under sanding AND buffing with a polish which most likely has a MILD abrasive it it as well! Good luck, and let us know how it works if you decide to go that route. I am satisfied with applying Cetol Light (NO GLOSS) as recommended and like the resultant finish. A hard varnish is probably what you may need to achieve the look you want with buffing.
capt_nemo
Well, if I do make it down to PG this spring, I'll have to help you out playing with your toys. Especially the Suncat. In reading all the posts here about the various boats, I really like the Suncats but, being a local Jersey guy, I have a soft spot in my heart for catboats. Compac hit a real home run by designing and building the Suncat.
Bob23
Well,
I tried wet sanding,( 400 and 600 grit) this worked better than I thought it wood. Wet sanding left it very flat with no inperfection, just flat and smooth. This also took away the high gloss and left it looking natural.
Wanting the high gloss finish I tried using my Howard's wood furniture polish using my buffer to rub out any fine scratches from sanding and to bring out the high gloss luster which I usually get from my other wood finishes.
This was disappointing , although it did bring back some of the gloss it didn't have the high gloss luster, more of a satin look.
Also, using my orbital buffing unit, I could see some small swirls in the finish caused by the orbital buffer.
Conclusion,
You can wet sand to get the mirror like smoothness and have a natural looking wood finish ( this does look nice) Trying for the high gloss mirror like finish without any marks at all, I don't think this is possible as Cetol is too soft.
That's to all of you for your help and suggestions.
Glenn
Glenn,
Sorry it didn't work out the way you had hoped.
A BIG thanks to you (and a Good Karma) for the experimentation and sharing the results. We all learned something as a result of your efforts. And sometimes, that's what this "mess'in about in boats" stuff is all about.
capt_nemo
Cetol is a "soft" finish, by design, halfway between hard varnish and teak oil. That is probably why it is easier to recoat and lasts longer than a "hard" varnish finish. If you really want that super high gloss finish,a traditional or polyurethane varnish is the only way to go. The good news is that you can probably overcoat the Cetol with a hard varnish unless the polish you used has wax in it, in which case a solvent wipe-down(check with the Cetol folks) might be in order prior to an overcoating with varnish. Nevertheless, because teak has such a high oil content(the reason it resists rot and lasts so long) virtually any finish that does not "breathe" will fail as the oil works its way to the surface under the hard coating. Heavy UV exposure and heat accelerate the process.
I've used Flagship varnish on the exterior teak of my 1985 23/2 and, while I hate the sanding, waiting and mulitiple coats (7), the finished product is perfect. Car finish smooth, very hard and clear. Applying maintenance coats in the fall and spring gave me a finish that lasted 5 or 6 years before it started to fail. I've refinished the bow pulpit once, the hatch and cabinboard guides once and touched up the winch pads every year. It still looks great.
That being said, I could not keep Flagship on the eyebrow trims to save my life. I've since switched to Teak color Cetol and it holds up well. From a few feet away, you can't tell the difference.
Has anyone heard of Armada finish?
http://www.bluewatermarinepaint.com/arwoflco.html
A friend who maintains and repairs some really fine catboats in Barnegat Light, NJ swears by it. As legend goes, the company was started my some Cetol mutineers who jumped ship. Dunno...maybe. Anyway, he loves the finish, apparently applies similair to Cetol (no sanding) and lasts well. I've seen the finished product and it's really nice. Approaches my Flagship job.
A word on applying varnish: After sanding I do an acetone wipedown to remove as much oil as possible as well as the sanding dust. Then I seal the teak with Tung oil and wetsand it in. Let it sit a bit and wipe off. I usually let it dry for a couple of days and then start with thinned Flagship, gradually thinning subsequent 3 coats less and less, sanding between each coat. The final 4 coats are unthinned. The result is a car-smooth finish. But it's a real pain in the posterior to achieve!
Bob23
I just did the work on the bow pulpit as this was the only piece I've been able to remove easily.
Since I have it on my work bench,I can easily sand it or wipe it down with a chemical ( acetone) to get the Finnish off and try something else.
The idea of going over the Cetol with varnish is tempting. What about Shelac?
Glenn
Forget shellac! Not durable in marine environment. Whatever varnish you use, maintaining it is along term commitment. Depending on your environment you may need to sand/recoat every 3 months or so. A lot less if your boat is covered/garaged between uses like Capt Nemo. The biggest problem is that once the varnish starts to fail stripping becomes necessary to bring it back to"Bristol Condition". That is what drives each of our finish choices: ultimate beauty vs maintainance. At one end is simple scrubbing and the grey/white natural look vs the sparkling furniture look of 5-8 coats of varnish. Ya pays yer money ya takes yer choice!
Craig
I think the easiest and simplist thing I can hope for is staying with the Cetol hgh gloss .
So far it's held up the best with the least amount of work in my Southern Calif. environment . I do kept her cover while she waits for me to take her out again.
I just had my jib repaired and will reattach it to this week,weather permitting.
Thanks all for the good advice .
Glenn
Glenn,
I think that is a good decision(Remembering that my advice is worth what you paid for it!). Cetol is a great compromise which can give you the high gloss look while at the same time extending your maintenance intervals and allowing easy touch-ups if needed. Fair winds! :)