Hello again, experienced 27 guys. Here's another issue on the boat I'm negotiating to buy. The story is the PO left a leaking gallon jug in the cabin for a long period of time. Looks like the sole has to be replaced. Hutchins can supply a new one although it's wicked expensive - $543. Anybody ever removed or replaced one? How is it attached? Anything underneath that I should be checking for further damage? Does the sole sit in a shallow glass well in the floor, or is it open to the bilge below? Sorry to be a pest; the boat is in St. Louis and I'm in North Carolina.
Wes
(http://i1108.photobucket.com/albums/h411/wnewman/84da65112d1e14bcfedd78c523220a75.jpg)
Hey Wes,
Can't offer any info on the particulars of a 27, but if all that is needed is some teak and holly plywood, you could do better than $543. I'm not sure how long this piece is that needs to be replaced but I was able to buy only what I needed (2' x 4' with some extra) when I extended my floor on my 23 under the companionway and over the bilge (removable panel). A full 4' x 8' x 1/2" sheet was $200, but I only bought $50 worth and probably could have gotten away with a 2 x 2 for $25. Shell Lumber in Coconut Grove, FL sells these pre-cut panels, but I do not know about shipping. Otherwise, this company http://www.marine-plywood.us/teakandholly.htm ships whole panels.
Hope this helps.
Ivo
A couple years ago I was buying teak and holly for 130 a 4X8 sheet and 150 a sheet for teak ply, both were 1/2 in thickness. The place is in Donald's sc and is called east teak, not sure if they ship though. One time I got to lay me hand on a piece of teak that was going to be a keel, price was about 50k! It was huge!
Last I looked teak & holly 1/4 ply was about $150/sheet; any fine wood or exotic wood or real lumber store (not big box) might have some, especially in coastal areas. You may have to go towards Norfolk.
Buy the whole thing, cut to fit, and varnish BOTH sides keeps most moisture out.
Looks like just the wood is discolored with water. Grind her down [that's if it's wood] to good wood and coat it with a nice hard clear urethane.
If it's a veneer cut a new piece or I'd consider taking cedar wood siding used for a room and cutting some reliefs on the edge and gluing it together with bisects sandwitched in between the cedar boards and then cut to fit. Seal all ends and both surfaces with clear epoxy and a roller.
skip.
The sole is bonded to the fiberglass shell. I started working mine up but stopped because it wasn't in that bad a shape. It seemed to be very well adhered. I don't think there is enough room for screws as the sole is right against the hull in these locations.
I was at the boat today (more on that subject soon) and you're right that the sole is tight against the fiberglass shell and shows no inclination to be pried out. But I was able to stick my head down in the bilge pump well with a flashlight looking aft and there's enough gap (about 1/4") to peek under the sole. There are clearly screws visible, but I can see no plugs on top of the sole. Is it possible the Hutchins elves actually screwed it in from below?
A mystery. I may have to use the Nuclear Option and contact Gerry H.
Wes
Wes, the winter before last I was at the Central New York Boat Show where the local Compac dealer was displaying the new 23 pilothouse and was able to talk with one of the Hutchins (son I believe) and asked him the same question. (I was thinking of refinishing it) He said it is just screwed down & sits in a fiberglass pan and has no structural purpose. On my 87 I can see the plugs. I did refinish the section over the bilge and found out how easy it is to sand thru the teak & holly laminate.
hope this helps
Quote from: Wes on March 23, 2013, 09:50:24 PM
I was at the boat today (more on that subject soon) and you're right that the sole is tight against the fiberglass shell and shows no inclination to be pried out. But I was able to stick my head down in the bilge pump well with a flashlight looking aft and there's enough gap (about 1/4") to peek under the sole. There are clearly screws visible, but I can see no plugs on top of the sole. Is it possible the Hutchins elves actually screwed it in from below?
A mystery. I may have to use the Nuclear Option and contact Gerry H.
Wes
On Miss B I removed it, cut a new one that promptly warped (I never re-bonded it) and now have a carpet insert that is much better on bare feet, not near as slippery when jumping below after a shower, and can be removed, shaken out (lots of sand in Florida) cleaned (or replaced)when needed.
Let me know if you still need pics, and I will pull out the carpet and post some.
Capt'n Jim
By the way, when I removed the origional flooring, there were no screws, only big globs of 5200.
Jim - you are my new best friend. Sounds like you have experienced almost all the issues that I'm having. Keep up the extremely helpful posts please. Wish you were closer to NC so I could bring beer and go over your boat with a fine toothed comb.
Next challenge: do you have that god-forsaken Isofurl furler? My PO used a jib halyard with a swivel snap shackle rather than that crazy wierd locking car and for the life of me ai can't figure out how this works without wrapping the halyard around the furler as it furls.
Wes
hi Wes
Got and ISOFURL sitting in my back yard.....not impressed with it....came off the pats boat.
Bruce
Allure2sail
Wes,
"Jim - you are my new best friend."
Be careful who your friends are.... in some circles I am known to drink homemade rum, go off on night visits to a pool hall, spend days on end by myself on a sail boat and flirt with my own wife in public places. They say a man like that is just not normal. Thanks for the complement.
My headsail rig is a Harken Jib reefing/furling system that I suppose was either stock for the 50th 27 built or the PO upgraded when he bought her. He only had it for 6 months before he had to have a 34 - 36 something, and was exactly what I was looking for so I took over payments and have had her ever since. Back to the Harken.... I keep waiting for it to take a dump, figure I will use that as an excuse to go twin headsails some day but after 26+ years and two sets of sails the damn thing still works flawlessly. Can't help you on the IsoFurl.
Bruce,
Hope all is going well. I am in mist of reworking Miss B's interior before an extended trip in late September / early October so next time your on the parts boat if you can get a camera shot of the cabinet we discussed, I think I can use it. Thanks, I think it could save some fab time.
Capt'n Jim
Finally removed the damaged sole. It had been glued down with many, many big globs of epoxy. This is a 1988 boat - Gerry at the factory says they switched to screws in later years (good idea; duh).
The sole is set in an approx. 5/8" depressed area cast into the cabin floor. It is not exposed to the bilge, except that there are numerous mystery holes about 3/8" dia. Most but not all that of the holes were plugged by the globs of epoxy.
Now to fabricate a new sole!
(http://i1108.photobucket.com/albums/h411/wnewman/5BC7BF59-22ED-41A1-9746-D0D66953E2BC_1.jpg)
Hey Wes
Good luck and let me know how it goes. I have a similar project coming up.
Tom
Wes - I have an 89 CP-27 with a damaged sole, also glued in place. I just bought the boat and the prior owner had purchased the replacement from Hutchins (lucky me!). Mine looks like yours did. How did you get the old one out? I have heard of using a heat gun.
I am saving the job for the end of this season. Thanks for pics, keep the info coming on your experience with the replacement.
Just brute force! I pried up one end and lifted hard. It let go surprisingly easily. After 29 years the epoxy was brittle, and the bottom layer of the plywood has delaminated in spots.
But be prepared for a long afternoon with a broad, sharp chisel getting all those globs of epoxy off.
For some reason the perimeter of the sole had not been bedded in sealant. Surprised the factory didn't do this, since it allowed water spills in the cabin to get under the sole. Curious whether they changed this in later years too. On the other hand it simplified the removal. Probably the first time a boat project hasn't included battling 3M 5200 :).
Wes
Wes, as always appreciative of your C-27 blogging.
Have you considered roughly sanding down the existing epoxy points and using them to support the new sole?
I noticed the cushions and the clean deck inside, boat is looking up!
regards charlie
Charlie - my new sole material is 1/2" thick, but the original turned out to be 5/8". Scraping off the epoxy gives me a chance to shim it more precisely.
I've cut out the new sole and coated the bottom with two coats of epoxy resin to waterproof it. After it cures I'll start shimming. More photos to come!
Wes
Here is what I think is the best option. I had the entire cabin sole done: plasteek.
Chech it out. It will last forever.
Rob
Rob - the Plasteak product is interesting but it looks like it is only 1/8" thick - so it would need some kind of underlayment below, to build up the 5/8" thickness needed. What did you use for that?
Here's a photo of my new sole. I bought 1/2" teak and holly plywood from World Panel Products in Windsor NC (they have a Florida location too). They will let you pick your sheet from the warehouse. The variation in color and grain from sheet to sheet it huge.
Used the old sole as a template to shape the corners with a router and flush trimming bit, but it looks like the corner radius is 2" fyi. Used a 45 degree chamfer bit on the bottom edge.
I coated the bottom with two layers of epoxy resin for waterproofing. Top is finished with Epifanes Woodfinish Matte - I'll probably put on a total of six coats with the first two being thinned for penetration.
Haven't ventured to recreate the removable access port in the smaller aft section of the sole (where the bilge pump is). Not confident enough of my woodworking skills!
Wes
(http://i1108.photobucket.com/albums/h411/wnewman/FA90B144-CB3A-4FD9-A808-3483E68C73FF.jpg)
Wow Wes! Good looking job as always.
Is the aft section stable enough that you could use the whole section as an access port? Mine is held down with 4 screws and I find myself taking it off a couple of times a year. It would be handy to be able remove the whole thing easily.
Again good work and thanks for the pictures.
regards charlie
Charlie - here's what my original aft sole looks like, with removable access hatch. Sounds like yours doesn't have this? Maybe they added it between 86 and 88. Seems like a very handy feature, to quickly check for water in the bilge. But it will stretch my woodworking capabilities to replicate it.
Wes
(http://i1108.photobucket.com/albums/h411/wnewman/2E25364B-99C5-43B4-AFDA-EC807FF3FFDA.jpg)
Hey Wes, Windrunner has the same set up with the easily removable access hatch. I was just wondering if it is worth the effort. It is pretty handy to take the whole aft deck off to clean up the bilge. However I recently gained some experience with making and installing some bow tie 'dutchmen' to stop the checking in an old dresser. It should not be to risky to cut out the hatch with a jig. Mistakes could be covered up by using wider trim around the removable hatch.
Are you going to be at McCotters this weekend? Thinking about sailing up that way later today.
regards charlie
Charlie - yep, I'll be at the boatyard from Friday midday to Sunday morning. Planning to permanently install the forward section of the sole and continue with interior varnishing and electrical work. Hope to see you!
Wes
Haven't ventured to recreate the removable access port in the smaller aft section of the sole (where the bilge pump is). Not confident enough of my woodworking skills
Are you kidding me?! I have serious woodworking skills and I'm looking at what you have already done and it is outstanding.:) So the next step is no step for a stepper. Is there room for a lip around the main deck where the removable panels go. If so I would make the whole panel easily removable. I think simpler access, less complicated.