Bought my1981 CP 16 in January so I have not had the chance to put her in the water yet. This afternoon when I was crawling around inside I noticed that I evidently have some deck leaks (probably some bad bedding to deal with when it stops raining). But the water is in two areas: just forward of the compression post and in the low area between the two "berths". I don't know what is under each of these area so the idea of drilling holes scares me, but I need some way to drain the water and get it out of the boat. Suggestions? I am in St Charles, MO so if there are any CP 16 owners in the area I would not mind coming out to take a look at your boat (or vice versa) and see how you take care of this.
You are pretty close to me, but still far away.... I am in Carlyle Illinois, Right on Carlyle Lake.
Had to go to a Nuero in St Charles... havent been back since.
Is there any way you could take pictures and post or send em?
Also, CLR is a get together at Carlyle Lake's West Access Marina on July 11-15, 2013
It is hosted by kickinbug on here, cool dude, and the people there are a lot of fun. Details on it in the General Announcements part :)
Also, while I am thinking about it, be sure to store the boat Nose high! gets that boat draining really well, and also the water should all run to the bilge.
Mac
How does the water access the bilge? I did tilt the trailer and noticed that there was not any water back in the battery box. How do I post photos to this site? I would be glad to share some.
There is no bilge on the CP16, the cabin is the lowest point you can easily access and is formed by the hull itself. In between the two bunks is the concrete filled keel. It is just under a somewhat thin coat of fiberglass material. You can tip the boat back on the trailer and allow all the water to drain to the rear of the boat to get it out for now. I would recommend tarping the boat until you can figure out where the water is coming from to prevent further damage until repairs can be made. I have some pictures of other members boats I can upload later if you'd like.
Last spring I encountered a similar problem. My first inclination, like yours, was to reseat and seal most of the deck hardware because I presumed the leak was coming from the deck. Wrong. After a maddening two months of searching (there was water in the boat after every heavy rain), I realized that the leak was in the hull - deck joint not on the deck itself. Removal of the rubrail and resealing with 5200 did the trick. Wait for a hot day to do this, because the rubber rub rail is easier to work with when it is really warm out. Stretching it and reattaching it is a chore. But the boat is dry as a bone now. In my detective work, I discovered that there is a kind of interior "channel" along the sheer line inside the boat. The water would sit between the rub rail and the boat after a rain, find its way to this interior (probably through several locations) but then would work it way along this interior channel till it found even a small opening (usually at the "bottom" most point of the sheer line amidships). My water settled near the foot of the bunks and also dampended the carpet lining on the interior of the hull (near the chain plates). It was soooo difficult to find because it was deceptive. Anyway, maybe my saga will help you.
We had a bunch of rain the past two days and when I checked the boat just now it looks just like it did on Saturday before the rain. My question today - if I raise the trailer tongue so the water runs towards the stern, where does it go? I have a battery compartment in the back of the cockpit and I looked in there and did not see any water. Are there some more rear drains that might be clogged up? Do I have to slither back in the berth area to clear things out (or pay one of my small kids to do that for me)?
If you have a CP16 the water is sitting in the stern of the boat somewhere, I would lower the bow and see if the water comes forward and sponge it out, at least in my 16 there are no internal drains..............nies
On my 1980 CP16, the battery compartment in the stern, located under the hatch between the two cockpit seats is wide open. I can look from inside the cabin alway the way under the cockpit to the rear transom. My boat is basically hollow, so if I were to pick up the trailer tongue. Any water would run to the stern, directly under that hatch and I could easily sponge it out. There are no drains.
Ah, and since I tilted my trailer and did not see any water back at the battery box, I must have some sort of blockage under the cockpit that prevents the water from getting back that far - time to send in the kids to check it out.
with the curve of the hull, you will have to tilt that bugger up pretty far to get any water all the way to the stern gotta be a pain anyway you slice it. as to the clr, if you can make it please do and like mac said check the site and find the particulars. also if you want to get together for a sail my boat or yours at carlyle lake this spring give me a yell. always happy for a crew. fordtruck52@yahoo
I have my 16 on the original trailer, tipping the boat up is very easy as the boat is almost perfectly balanced on the trailer. With the rudder assembly removed, simply chock the wheels so it can't roll, and pick up the tongue. Mine is quite easy to lift. I'd do it in the grass to keep from scratching or damaging the stern. If you look at this photo here, you can see that the axle placement on the factory trailer is pretty close to the center of the boat. It's why you can't stand in the cockpit near the stern without flipping the bow up into the air. I hate to say it, but I learned the hard way to hook my truck up to the trailer or to put a jack stand under the rear of the trailer frame after I forgot I had unhooked the truck and proceeded to climb into the boat, standing it on end!
(http://i1231.photobucket.com/albums/ee514/scotimier/Snapbucket/BA0CBA74.jpg)
I have seen the mention of the CP gathering at Carlyle this summer and need to check my schedule - my wife has me busy with the wedding our oldest daughter in June so I may need some time on the water to recover. Kickingbug1 - I may take you up on the sailing offer just to get to know the boat better.
Wroundey- Hope to see you at CLR.
As for your leaks, I'll guess your mast step is leaking causing the forward water. Or it's leaking right at the bow fitting, running down the inside and falling on the forward area. For the other area, are you talking about the sole, as in the floor between the bunks or behind the bunks?
I don't doubt a lot of older CP's could use a good once-over refitting of hardware and replacement of rub rails with new deck to hull adhesive at this stage in their lives. I vote to do this as good preventative maintenance, and if if still leaks chase from there.
Also the scupper drain pipes inside the stern are known to sometimes experience failed PVC glue. These can leak while sailing but a water spray test might not. Then the water will go to the lowest point depending on how the boat is situated.
Dry out your boat well with an electric heater to prevent mold and rot water damage, reduce weight, etc. Then once totally dry ANY leaks will be detected quickly.
After a good rain, I always find water in the "bilge" of my '81 CP16. I'm pretty certain it is getting in via the not so perfectly sealed anymore hull/deck joint. The water flows down the forward deck and is directed right into the joint that the rub rail conceals. I simply jack the trailer as high as it will go and drain the water to the stern where my bilge pump pumps it out. A sponge does the rest. If the carpets have gotten wet, I pull them to air dry them and put a small electric heater in the cabin to help dry it out like Salty recommends (DON'T PUT THE HEATER ON WET DECK). Also I open the hatch and forward vent to improve air circulation when it's just a bit damp. Don't forget to close her up before nightfall or you'll just get more moisture.
Of course, if I plan on over-nighting on the boat, I need to seal that leak if I don't want to get wet. The water comes down the hull and onto the bunk before getting to the cabin deck. More critical, is a broken scupper tube. See my post under "Bilge Pump for a CP16" elsewhere on the CP16 forum.
Marty K.
Had a leak a long time ago and made the boys stand in the driveway with a hose and act like a rain storm while dad sat inside and waited for water to show itself, turned out the hatch and sliding hatch needed to be matched very closely, the boys have forgiven me when they discovered what craze things they could make their children do in the name of boats..............................nies
Another trick to find evasive leaks is to pressurize the boat with a leaf blower. Put the blower output thru the deck vent and seal it with tape. Try to seal around the entry hatch the best you can with tape. Don't use Duct Tape on the cabin hatch, it is a mess to get off.
Then turn on the leaf blower and start hunting the leak with a sprayer with soapy water.
Does this method work? Yep. Expect some leaks around places that are supposed to leak: cockpit hatch door, cabin entry hatch and door. But there will be enough volume to find the ones that AREN'T supposed to be there: mast base, deck/hull seam.
This has worked on a 30 foot boat (stanchions leaked) and even some mobile radars that the Army has that I am a Field Service Rep for. We found the leaks in all cases using this method.
Good Luck of course!
-Shawn F.
What are people using for bedding compound for through deck fittings? Best ideas?
Thanks
I like Boat Life polysulfide sealent.
It seals well, is easily removed at a later date, and is easy to work with.
Do not use 3-M 5200 polyurethane adhesive unless you never plan to remove the hardware again.
I do like 5200 for permanent bonding jobs. The stuff is really strong. I just don't use it as a sealer.
Most everyone here knows I recommend LIFE CAULK which is that same thing Pacman referred to.
I have used it o seal everything from stanchions to blocks, etc.
The deck to hull seam I would use 5200. And also 5200 on the eye bolt at the front of a boat that is used to winch it on a trailer.
That 5200 when removing my hardware for a full repaint job actually caused more work by ripping off gel coat......
Luckily I know how to fix all of that :)
Mac
Any best suggestions on where to buy the Life Caulk?
Have used all products over the years and for your appli. 100% silicone from the hardware store worked best for me.....................removes easily and seals great..................nies
The biggest problem with using silicone is that once you use it nothing else will stick to that area,even more silicone. Very too slippery!
Never had that problem.......................nies
I recently rebedded the stanchions on my 1985 23/2 with butyl tape. This has been discussed on this forum somewhere in the distant past. It remains sticky nearly forever and retains some "give" which is important as the stanchions always seems subject to some movement. I aslo used it when I installed my dorade box on the foredeck.
However, it can be sheer madness if working with it in hot weather, as I did. It's better to remove the "squeeze-out" when it's cooler out. Unless you want to drive yourself mad!
Bob23
(ps: On some other areas, ie: sliding hatch guides, I had great results with DAP 3.0 caulk, the old stuff. Unfortunately, they changed the formula and now it's not nearly as good. It used to be workable down to minus 30F or so. Not so now. That being said, old fashioned type butyl caulk works ok for sealing where water instrusion is not a big issue.)
Life caulk can be bought through defender I think otherwise Jamestown distributors.
I would put up a link but I am on my phone and even though I'm a young guy, this phone is too advanced for me to figure that crap out........hahhhhahahhahah
That butyl tape sounds neat and my camping buddy tried to get me to use it.....but I just can't.......I like the looks of a finished clean product and those always have the look of something under the hardware.... like a gasket. Just my opinion.
That life caulk you can do before a rainstorm if you wanted, water helps cure it. So if you get the assembly together and it starts to rain, have no worry.
Mac
Silicone should never be used. Contaminates the surface for years, if painting will be a huge issue
Bob,
Where did you find the butyl tape?
I bought butyl tape here:
http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/butyl_tape
You might also want to read this concerning rebedding hardware using butyl tape.
http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/rebedding_hardware
Well.......now I am pondering using Butyl tape.....
hmmm..........
Mac
I be re-sealing this spring. Butyl tape is on hand!
Salty, where did you get your butyl tape from?
Mac
Aha!!!! We did it!!! We got Mac to defect from LifeCaulk to butyl tape!!!! And they said it couldn't be done!!!!
I got mine locally from my glass guy. I didn't like the black color and I'd rather have the grey stuff but it worked great. I think the grey stuff wouldn't make one curse as much as the black stuff in hot weather.
The butyl tape indeed acts as a gasket, Mac. After I reinstalled the stanchions, I only hand tightened 'em, let them set for a day or two and then did the final tighten-up.
(ps: Old-guy Mo-town listeners will remember Archie Bell and the Drells doing "The Tightenup". Oh yeah, I can just hear it now!!!)
Bob23- the thread-drift king!
DAG NABIT, Bob23 you caught me and announced it to the forum members........
I should have sent PMs........
I am going to try it, hell, that article looks like a much cleaner job than Life Caulk, and beleive me, no matter how clean I have been with Life Caulk, it is always somewhere......
Mac
MMMPHHH! the sound of a life-caulk installer. I think one can get white butyl tape from Sailrite & others. No need to mess with offsetting colors.
Look Here: http://www.sailrite.com/Trimmable-Butyl-Tape-3-4-Bedding-Deck-Hardware-Sealant (http://www.sailrite.com/Trimmable-Butyl-Tape-3-4-Bedding-Deck-Hardware-Sealant)
TG
PS. "Dag-Nabbit Luke, Where's Peppino?" Amos McCoy, circa 1963.
PPS. Gol dern Sailors, anyhow! Amos McCoy, circa 1963
You can get the tape in white and grey at Walmart......................nies
http://www.boatus.com/magazine/2013/April/how-to-pick-the-right-sealant.asp
From what I read even Don Casey is recommending Butyl tape. I confess I bought 3 rolls 3 months ago after reading the outline and pictures at
www.pbase.com/mainecruising/butyl_tape Mike
After enlisting the help of one of my daughters with a hose I have found three leak sources that are allowing water into the cabin. Two are easily dealt with - I need to re-bed my bow pulpit (two deck attachements leak and two do not so I will probably do all four just to be safe). The other leak however is tougher. I had my daughter spray water along the chainplates for the shrouds and both sides are leaking - not at the chainplates themselves, but it appears my hull/deck joint has some gaps and is letting water in. I need some ideas and thoughts in resealing my deck to the hull. Suggestions?
Thanks
You might try Life Caulk polysulfide sealant.
(http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh299/1930fordroadster/Bell-Archie--The-Drells--.jpg)
In the movie Animal House the boys stopped at a roadhouse and walked in on this band, it was an all black bar.
skip.
I knew SOMEBODY here would remember that song!!!!!
Wroundly: there's a lot of discussion here on this site about resealing the hull/deck joint. If you do a search, I'm sure you'll find it. I hope I don't have to do this job on my 23. But I think it'd be a simpler project on a 16.
Bob23
I was thinking about waiting for a nice warm/hot day, pop off the black rub rail, caulk up the joint and fittings, and then re-install the rub rail. Any issues I might run into with this plan?
Sounds like a good plan.
Wround:
You really should open up the problem area of the seam, scrape out all the crap, reseal and rebolt. Of course, you'd have to remove the bolts or rivets in order to open up the seam. I think it's a more long lasting job than just applying caulk. Although, that my do the trick!
Bob23
I would do just as you say, but dont caulk the rubrail on...... well, I wouldnt, but I guess it depends what caulk you use..
If you use 4200 or 5200, dont pur the rubrail back on right away. If you use Life Caulk, then I wouldnt be afraid to put the rubrail back on.
ALSO remember that when reinstalling the rubrail, do it when it is warm out, and nice sun, lay them in the sun to warm up, that way it is better on you putting it on again! :)
Mac
Quote from: MacGyver on April 22, 2013, 06:31:00 PM
If you use Life Caulk, then I wouldnt be afraid to put the rubrail back on.
That's one of the reasons why I like Life Caulk for sealing stuff.
It is a sealant, not an adhesive like 5200.
Boat this 1980 compac boat. Was replacing the center part of the sole.
Living in Florida , water got into the boat. Mostly accumulated in the center cabin area.
Lifted the boat high to get water to run to lazerette area against the transom. Very little water flowed that way.
Water was stopped by rear bulkhead. Called Hutchins and was told there is not connection between rear bulkhead and lazerette.
Reading your posts it appears that has to be a connection between the bulkhead and the lazerette.
Am tempted to drill a hole in bulkhead.
Please somebody enlighten me.
Breezy,
I believe that the rear bulkhead is there to keep minor water entering the lazerette, in the lazerette. I have wondered the best side to locate a bilge pump. That depends on where you think you might hole the hull. In either case there probably would not be much time with or without a bilge pump as a forward leak would quickly run over the top of the bulkhead. (I've located my bilge pump aft of the bulkhead for ease of servicing.)
If water is leaking in from the deck or the deck/hull seal, repair the leak and get the hull dry with a sponge and the a dehumidifier.
My two cents worth.
Dave
Breezy,
I agree with Citroen/Dave. I wouldn't drill holes through that low bulkhead. My guess is that Hutchins anticipated water collecting all the way aft and the bulkhead helps keep it back there and not flow into the cabin. My 16 is now 32 years old and water always seems to find its way in. Fortunately, it's just a little bit. The biggest leak I've had is when the scupper tube broke away from the cockpit deck/floor. Then the water can quickly overflow the bulkhead and make things soggy in the cabin. A good test is to plug the exit holes in the transom and powerwash down into the scupper tubes. If they're leaking, you'll find out real quick! Hope this was helpful.
Marty K.
Pegasus
P.S. The biggest risk is water coming IN via the scuppers should they be separated from the cockpit deck. That's what happend to me. Be sure you have your scupper plugs (for the stern) installed to check that. Unless you're taking a lot of water over the coaming, you don't need the scuppers to be open. Keep 'em plugged and take them out when driving home!