Com-Pac Yacht Owners Association

So I just put some money down on a Compac 19.

It's in Miami, I am in Orlando. The previous owner is an hour away from the trailer (he kept it in the water), but he told me that the trailer will need new Bearing Buddies. So... I am thinking that I will buy a new pair and take them with me when I go down for the pickup, sometime next week.  The boat has not been on the trailer for over two years, so I expect I will have some work to do.

I don't relish the thought of bringing the boat home on a trailer I don't really know and particularly more so without working Bearing Buddies.

I know nobody can definitively tell me without seeing the trailer... but I wonder if there is a standard size that I might expect. If I buy the wrong ones, I can always return them.

Any ideas? They come in a bunch of sizes. The boat is a 1990 Mark III, so maybe that gives a bit of direction as to which ones assuming the trailer came with the boat.

I don't even have bearing buddies on my trailer  :o

I would find out what model the trailer is and then find a trailer shop with in the vicinity. Then you could just get whatever you need there locally. Or at least find out if they have it in stock.

The good news is you will have the hour to pull the trailer w/out the boat. So if something goes wrong, heaven forbid, the boat won't be on the trailer.

And congratulations on the new boat!

Congrats on the boat. The PO should be able to give you info off of title or registration(not sure how Florida handles boat trailers).  The worry is the bearings, and Billy is right about the trailer shop. I would find out make of trailer to find out the inner seal that holds inner bearing in.Though if you pop off what ever is currently over the axle hub and either water or rust is present you know bearings need to be repacked. I cannot emphasize this enough, seized bearings with the boat on would be a complete disaster. The good thing is that the trailer is probably new enough that everything should be a standard size. Repacked bearings is a small cost compared to the alternative, and having the bearings repacked with no boat on should be a relatively easy matter.I would just plan on having them repacked and find the shop to do it. It does not have to be on a lift, so that really helps in terms of time and expense.If the shop is any good you will proably won't incur much over the minimum labor charge and seals with cotter pins. Lights are nice, good tires help, and a decent coupler really helps. But even the coupler has safety chains, whereas there is no backup for bearings. The worse would be bad races that bearings run against, just because they either need to be pressed out of drum, or pounded out with brass drift. But even then the alternative is unthinkable. Think of no drain plug replaced on engine, or no oil in transmission, rusty bearings or bearings with water in them is the equivalent for trailer axles. Frozen bearings can result in axle seizure that can flatten tire, break the axle stub off resulting in tire with drum is place bouncing down the road, or even a fire where the drum gets so hot that a grease fire results. I use to co-own 55 OTR tractors using a pool of 500 trailers that I didn't own. The trailers were always the biggest headache, and because of the time axle failure would waste I always had the trailers get what is called a DOT inspection, and even then I had to emphasize inspecting axle grease(semi trailers use 90 wt gear oil).
I really would tell the PO you wanted the trailer hubs repacked. I would really be worried if he just pulled axle Buddy's off and had no replacement covers. Like I said more than once repacking them is cheap insurance.        Mike

My CP-19 was equipped by Performance Trailer [Now out of Business] with Bearing Buddies.

Buy a good quality hand pump grease gun from NAPA or CarQuest and two tubes of red bearing grease and prize out the soft rubber cap of the Bearing Buddies that covers the Zerk with a small flat blade screw driver and pump a bunch of grease into the bearing.

It would be easier to jack the empty trailer and each trailer wheel off the ground with a little $20, 2000 lb bottle jack and spin the wheel/bearing assembly to work the grease around.

Drive home.

JUST BECAUSE THE TRAILER HAS BEEN SITTING AROUND UNUSED DOESN"T MEAN THE OLD GREASE HAS SOMEHOW GONE AWAY. IT'S STILL THERE.
If it sat in old grease any number of years and rain has not displaced or flushed out the old grease it has never had a chance to rust. I have dealt with 80+ year old cars and when opening them up, bearings, trans, axles, steering boxes don't seem to be lacking lubrication.

Pump some more red grease into the hardened rollers/balls, races, and cages through the Zerk. That pushes the old black grease, any rust, and sand out and puts the new grease in. You'll see the black grease and any crud squeeze out and when you see the red grease emerge, that's enough. Stop pumping. Any dot or two of rust on rolling mating surfaces will be worn away in the first mile or so. Anyway you'll be driving the unloaded trailer over to the nearest air pump and putting in the maximum amount of air pressure indicated on the tier's sidewall. That will get the bearings ready to go.

Is it going to be a 1-7/8 or a 2 inch ball and hitch? Check that out. Speaking of that...a thin loc-nut is under the trailer's hitch and once down on the tow vehicle's ball it wouldn't hurt to ratchet that nut up and that pulls the hitch down and tighter on the ball. But not so tight you can't get the handle locking lever on and off the ball. If in doubt use the bottle jack to jack up on the trailer and see if the tow vehicle lifts up without popping off the ball. The hitch should grab the ball that well.

skip.

just in case it here and I missed it take some pb blaster with you and a tool box so you can get your lug nuts off if needed.  If its been in salt water from time to time things get kinda siezed.  Id really look into what the old bearing grease looks like.  If its been dunked in the past the water can have a bad effect, while pulling the hubs off a friends trailer to get my santana 20 the grease was so thin it came out like aunt jamimas!  A spare might be in order to, those small wheel/tires arent to expensive.  The two different common sized of bearings are good to have.  Might be good to buy the stuff at wally world so you can return whichever bearing set is the wrong size.  The little stuff may add up a little but man being stuck on the side of the interstate sucks!!

For my hauling I carry,
10 ton bottle jack
assorted 4X4 chunks of wood and some 2X4s
two sets of bearings
two spare tires
various nuts and bolts for supports, lugnuts, ect
extra trailer light
extra pair of red flags {im a wide load}
Tool box with the basics

Dont freak out, this is for a triple axle trailer with 15k lbs carrying capacity!  And I do hate being on the side of the interstate, with three axles if a tire blows and an exit is close I just slow down and cruise to the next exit!
Crap for a small trailer if your not completely prepared wally world carries the basics as well and they are all over.

Thanks for all the great info!

For $200 the PO took the trailer to a shop where they put on new bearings and new buddy bearings as well as a new set of lights. That gives me confidence that I didn't have before.  I haven't trailered anything as a 19 before and all I have is a Chevy Colorado.

The packing list for trailering is a great idea - I will certainly be posting that in my garage for future reference before setting out. I pick the boat up tomorrow morning!  I have a couple days off so I will be puttering around with her and can't wait to get started.

what kind of Colorado is it? 4wd? 2wd? extended cab, etc?

I pulled our 19 home from Wentzville MO (around 100 miles or so one way) with a 4wd Superbcab Ranger with 4.0 V6.
Pulled pretty nicely  ;) , and definitely told you she was back there, but not as bad as a different enclosed I had pulled before back and forth to Chicago. I might have been more nervous than anything pulling the boat as I had just gone through a massive hailstorm with biggest hail I had ever seen  :-\ , and had several issues like a tire blow on the trailer, and lights were a mess......It was a ADVENTURE  :o ........

I am glad to see that you had the company do all of that. Most times greases are not compatible with each other. I have heard of issues from the incompatibilities. Atleast now you know the trailer is ready.

Good Luck! Don't be in a hurry!

Mac

              Ted, forethought and preparation are some of the requirements for a safe sailor, and you just showed you have that in your makeup. There are always times when you are nervous and don't want to try something new, but the knowledge that you have done all that you can to prepare will carry you through those times.You will probably see broken down trailers on the highway even in the relative short distance you travel, and you have the satisfaction that you have done the smart and responsible things to keep yourself from ending up like that.

  CONGRATULATIONS on the boat, you will find it rewarding and satisfying in ways that non-sailors probably won't understand.    Mike

"Most times greases are not compatible with each other." Right. And one of many reasons to R and R [remove and replace] the old grease and push out impurities with new grease.

skip.

Quote from: MacGyver on December 16, 2012, 11:09:19 AM
what kind of Colorado is it? 4wd? 2wd? extended cab, etc?

It's just a 2 WD, four door Colorado Z71. It pulled my sixteen without a though so I think I will be okay if I take things easy.

You should be fine then, I think the payload on that vehicle is like 3 to 4000 lbs.

Let us know how it goes towing it, I am always curious as to peoples towing experiences.

When my neighbor went with me to haul the boat to his storage area he is letting me use, he said how nice my truck towed the boat, which surprised me.
He even said he barely could tell we were towing and that I had plenty of power.... made me feel pretty good, as I know they towed these boats with cars years ago........ how or why they did that is beyond me.... LOL   

Have a Safe Trip!

Mac

Thats pretty sweet that the PO took the trailer in and had that done so you can pick up and go with a free mind.  Peace of mind is priceless!!

Yes - the PO was a good guy.

Adoption is all but done - just have to file the papers with the DMV. Here are some pics I took at a rest stop on 95 today, about halfway between Miami and Orlando:

(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8075/8283020608_55f0edfd62_m.jpg)

(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8486/8283020532_6df6ca7bef_m.jpg)

The trailer was bouncing a ton as I drove through Miami (95 is not too "smooth" in town). I stopped and put air in the tires (they only had 30 pounds). After that, she pulled like a dream. The boat lets you know it's back there, but that's to be expected. I kept it between 55 and 60, though a few times I let it drift up to the low 60s before I realized I was going that fast.

So... thanks for the advice here - it all worked out. I have a boat to clean up and I will do some "re-rigging" now that I have it home.

It's look like the boat boat is sitting too far back on the trailer.  I have the same boat and trailer..our winch is much closer to the tow vehicle, and the bunks sit further aft on the boat.  Might want to check tongue weight just in case.  Should be darn close to 300lbs.

I was looking at that too Salty, but then I see it is where mine sits on my trailer..... I am going to check my tongue weight one time and see what it is........

Maybe this next CLR I will see how yours sits cause I want to make adjustments to mine if needed for sure. Maybe then I will feel comfortable to run somewhere else with it...... :D

Mac

Before I drove off yesterday I tried to lift the tongue. I could do it, but it was an epic struggle. I would guess my weight on the tongue to be about 175 to 200. I am not sure how I could weigh it, though, to be sure. I suppose I could load weights onto the rear until it tips back. My household scale won't go that high. If I moved the boat forward by shifting the winch stand the boat wouldn't float off quite as easily.  Hmmmm.....

Ted,
Here are a few pictures of mine. It seems that the trailer axle is about even with the aft stantion.

(http://i1011.photobucket.com/albums/af237/billybbingham/P3200141.jpg)

(http://i1011.photobucket.com/albums/af237/billybbingham/P8070037.jpg)

Not sure if you remember when we hauled her out, but I can climb into the back of my truck, lower the tailgate, and step on the winch so I don't get my feet wet.

Also, I think Skip moved the axle on his trailer further aft. Doing that shouldn't effect how far you have to back in to float her off, and add more tongue weight. be sure to check you max weight. Mine is around 400lbs i think. But I can lift the tongue myself with out exerting too much energy. I would say my tongue weight is not over 125lbs. but that is just a guess.

Of course if you are worried about floating her off you could always get a tongue extension.

NICE BOAT BTW!!!

A standard CP-19 set on the standard Performance trailer with the factory extending tongue set-up in the factory way will raise the jack and it's wheel clean off the ground if a 216 lb fellow walks astern.

That's why I made this up. The following year I switched jack and winch around and moved the boat forward for more weight up front. The next year I skidded the axle more to the rear of the trailer.

The way the roller supports are gigged and welded onto the trailer at different heights there is no way that the keel on a CP-19 could ever rest or touch all four rollers at the same time. No biggy three is enough plus the vee block plus the two hull bunks properly bent to profile the hull's shape.

skip.

Hey Ted:
When we picked up our boat the PO had loaded it with the keel resting about a foot up on the end of the tongue.  We tied the boat onto a tree and pulled the trailer forward to get the weight aft some.  We now trail with the keel evenly distributed over the four rollers.  When we travel the motor is mounted on the front of the trailer.  This gives us between 60-80 lbs of tongue weight.

regards charlie


(http://i1125.photobucket.com/albums/l594/CPYOA/MotorMount.jpg)

Let's not confuse the 16's and 19's tongue weight.  The 16's should have roughly 160lbs of tonque weight, the 19's about 300.

I can say with certainty our setup tows well on the highway.  We've towed her about 2500 miles with nary a sway or misbehavior. I cannot lift the tongue unless the trailer is empty. Doing that math, that seems about right.

Looks like our winch is forward of others, but so is the axle. The aft keel is about where skips's is..just a few inches forward of the aft roller.

(http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z290/yamaholic_mcarp/Island%20Time/DSC01510-1.jpg)

Back the performance trailers, a lot of them use a hub and bearing assembly called "Superlube".  They are pretty cool, you just remove a rubber cap, hook up the grease gun, spin the tire (put trailer on jacks) and lube away with a grease gun via a nipple under the cap.  It forces grease into the inner bearing, through the outer and out the hub where you would remove the old grease with rags.  So much easier than repacking, and can be done on the road if needed.

I must have super human strength then  :o

Seriously, My 19 seems to sit further forward on the trailer than yours. And then wouldn't that increase the tongue weight? But I can lift the tongue with the boat on the trailer.

Having the axel forward would decrease the tongue weight.


here is a pic of the front of the keel
(http://i1011.photobucket.com/albums/af237/billybbingham/P9150688b_zps4f0430d2.jpg)

and the back
(http://i1011.photobucket.com/albums/af237/billybbingham/P9150686.jpg)

Maybe I am missing something but I really don't think my tongue is 300lbs and it trailers just fine at 60+mpg

I am a little late in this thread, but this information is important.

I picked up my '87 CP16 from Ohio this past Summer.  It had an original Hutch trailer.  The previous owner put new bearings and tires on the trailer because he knew I would be taking the boat back to Virginia.  My point: the new bearings were in the the water only once after installation when he pulled the boat for my inspection.  I have since replaced the axle as a precaution after reading about trailer axles of the same vintage breaking on the road.  In removing the new bearings installed in Ohio, one hub had water in the grease!  Just once in the water after a sort drive from the trailer shop and water was sucked past the seals into a new bearing.  Bearing Buddies are a must! They prevent a vacuum from forming inside a warmed hub that otherwise might suck in some water.  

Another thought while we are on the topic.  Never mix grease types! The components of one brand of grease will attack the other causing the greases to liquefy and run past the bearing seals.  This type of failure is observed with the comment, "Oh, the bearing overheated".  No, the two greases attacked each other. Always clean the bearings and replace any unknown grease with the brand of grease in the grease gun you use! Have a dedicated grease gun.  Do not randomly add grease from different sources.

That's good advice.

I had black grease in my gun when I went to pick up the boat. Upon my first "squeeze" I noted that they had put red grease in. I will have to clean them out now and stick with one or the other.

Had the shakedown cruise today. All went well except the motor wasn't consistently drawing gas through the line. I think the gas tank hookup, at the motor, is a bit loose and will need replacing.

She sailed great! It is my first boat with a roller furler and that was an enjoyable thing to behold! Not much wind, but that was good for a first time out.

Hey Ted:
I hate to mention it but did you have the tank vented?
I have done that once.
regards charlie

Quote from: deisher6 on December 20, 2012, 12:44:29 AM
Hey Ted:
I hate to mention it but did you have the tank vented?
I have done that once.
regards charlie

I've never done that.......



Never ;)

Quote from: deisher6 on December 20, 2012, 12:44:29 AM
Hey Ted:
I hate to mention it but did you have the tank vented?
I have done that once.
regards charlie

Yep - I had it vented. It's a good question, though, as I have done that before and more than once. If I squeeze the bulb I get some gas leaking out at the connection at the engine, so I know gas is getting up there initially. The leaking may indicate that air is able to be sucked in to the system and the hose is not "sealed" properly to the motor. That's my current working theory, anyway. I will start by replacing the connector and see what happens from there.

Thanks!

" I will have to clean them out now and stick with one or the other. "

O.K., NEVER wash any roller, ball or tapered bearing or any cage or race out with a solvent. No solvents, no gasoline, diesel, no 'fast' solvents [also called 'HOT' solvents], no parts cleaner, brake cleaner...nothing. It's not necessary. Never metal on metal since bearings work by floating on a petroleum product such as grease, oil, ect.
I'll go with what Berry Bearing told me to do with our Timkin Bearings.

" The biggest problems around shops is that someone uses an air blow gun which will put 20 years use on a bearing in 30 seconds spinning it dry."

Yep especially when they are spun up dry. Or when they are under lubed by a cleaning solvent, same ware. It's kind of like washing a carpet. You wet and foam, the surfactants in the soap release the dirt on the surface of the carpet fibers only to have the dirt fall toward the carpet's backing...you really did not pick up all dirt and left it to bubble back up in short order.

The solvents break up the dirt and the micro pieces and are still in the nice old shiny-clean bearing, cage and race. The idea of the grease is to hold the dirt in suspension till displaced by new grease.

Like solvents dissolve like solvents.

Just repack the bearing with fresh grease. Pushes all the old stuff out.

Fuel Delivery:
Since it was brand new, the hold open-push on-and release snap gas line connection on my Mercury 5 hp two cycle would always allow a leak, drip and bubble into the fuel line thus feeding air into the crankshaft pulse actuated fuel pump on the carburetor...very madding as the engine would starve for fuel, but if I was 'Johnny on the spot' a quick pull or push or tweak on the connector would restore and assure adequate fuel delivery.

The darn thing always felt like it was loose. And the squeeze ball pressure would dribble out making rainbows on the water and dribbles down inside the housing. Well that's better then smoke on the water I guess. But not much.

The cures tried but failed were new o~rings, Parmatex non-hardening gasket sealer, some epoxy putty, and even R&R the connector with a new one. Yet all this failed.

Now I wrap the whole snap on connector with Rescue Tape. A silicone tape that sticks to it's self. About an inch wide. Lasts all season with no leaks, no air, no problem and at the end of the season the tape is cut off with a knife, allowing the connector to be un snapped and the motor run until dry for six months of winter storage.

skip.

I bought a brand new six gallon poly tank and a brand new gas line for it.  The gas line had a faulty connector right out of the box.  I didn't have time to send it back, just bought a new connector and replaced it.  My policy is to leave the gas hooked up all the time all year long to eliminate wear on those fragile connectors.  I don't disconnect from the motor unless I'm prepping to trailer.  I try to keep the tank, lines, carb full to eliminate potential for condensation.  I never run the motor dry. I rarely go over two weeks without starting the motor.   I use gas without alcohol and don't use any additives, however I do periodically switch tanks and burn up the oldest in the lawn and garden equipment.  Starts with two short bursts of the starter or two hand cranks every time runs great under power, although I have a rough idle in the winter, have to run the choke out about 1/4". I've had two many of those connectors to count go bad over my lifetime.

Skip I always clean my bearings with a fast evaporating solvent.  "Fast evaporating"  When they are dry, it is gone, there is nothing left to breakdown the new grease.  If that grease in the bearing is old, crusty, has rust particles, water or dirt of any kind, trying to push more grease through will not get it out.  Just my opinion.  I do mine on trailer day if I had towed at all that year and gone into the salt.  Trailer day gets the bearings repacked, any rust spots painted with cold galv, brakes cleaned and adjusted, tires cleaned and soaked in 303 protectorant, lights checked, jack greased, winch strap checked and general inspection and repair.  Takes one long day to do it all, but great piece of mind on the road.

 For bearings I use diesel. I do think that some of the solvents will cause problems, there seems to be some adhesion to metals by grease or oil that is displaced by it.Diesel is a lubricant, high pressure fuel pumps like the ones on Yanmars develop up to 3500 psi with diesel as the only lubricant. I always try to clean the bearing out as much as possible, cleaning it with diesel wet rag or soaking then cleaning and packing using either a bearing packer (http://www.harborfreight.com/bearing-grease-packer-69027.html) or by hand. The biggest problems around shops is that someone uses an air blow gun which will put 20 years use on a bearing in 30 seconds spinning it dry. The reason I like the greaser packer is then I can use hi-temp disc brake grease easier than doing it by hand. That grease is great stuff, will not melt under any conditions I've seen. It can be difficult to pack or repack with, but it is just as difficult for water to contaminate it. Mike.

Skip, I respectfully disagree on the solvent.  If the bearings are not sealed within the race, by all means they NEED solvent to rinse away the gunk.  What you shouldn't do is spin the bearing in a dry race or use solvent in an area where it cannot evaporate (or otherwise have the lack of patience to let it evaporate). True, if solvent is left in the bearing and mixed with grease bad things happen.  This is why kerosene is not optimal, it does not evaporate readily and leaves a film behind.

Berryman's B19 is awesome stuff for cleaning bearings (and carburetors!). Fast evaporation, very strong cleaner and zero residue.  

I would of blown out motorcycle wheels, head bearings, suspension parts many a times if solvent had a role in damaging bearings. Had to rebuild off-road bike bearings on a yearly basis as dirt, quartz, clay and iron get in there. Breaking down 40 miles from the truck ain't fun :)

If a bearing is sealed within a race where you cannot access the bearings, that should be replaced with a new part.