Com-Pac Yacht Owners Association

Hi All,
I'm getting ready to cover the boat for the winter. The mast is my ridge pole. I've removed the spreaders themselves and now just have the sockets at the mast. I think those may interfere with the tarp and I've been thinking about removing them. Before I do that though, I want to make sure I won't be allowing a spacer within the mast to get away. Don't see how a spacer could have been put in there in the 1st place, but I thought I'd ask before I do something I may later regret.
Thanks for the input.
Marc

It's just a long bolt..no spacers.  Do you get a lot of snow?  If so rethink using the mast as a ridge pole.

There  is definitely a spacer in the 23 mast. The hole on one side is large enough to slide it in, but the other side is too small for it to come out.  It reinforces the mast at that stress point.

Thanks for info guys.

Salty - Don't think snow will be a problem. I've got the mast supported at the tabernacle & both ends. The boat is parked in my driveway so if I do get concerned I can just step outside with a broom.
Marc

There was a spacer on mine also
19
I had mine apart earlier this year

Mac

That's really odd..had mine apart last year--the bolt was bent and no spacer.   Maybe just didn't notice it, or could have fallen out. Hmmm...maybe I outta check that out again to see what the deal is.

One hole was larger than the other
Also my bolt was bent too.
And the spreader mounts so i straightened them.

Odd that it bends............had it bound in the tube like spacer.

Mac

Took out the sockets. No spacer. Holes on both sides of the mast are just the size of the bolt. Found a problem though. I have a dent on the port side of the mast immediately above the hole for the spreader. So now I have 2 questions. Did this happen because the starboard upper stay was too loose? Second question - How worried would you be about this? Photos below.
Marc

(http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t486/sail19/IMGP7267_zpsd288d108.jpg)

(http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t486/sail19/IMGP7273_zps6e755720.jpg)

(http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t486/sail19/IMGP7271_zpsd28de672.jpg)

Someone tightened it.down way too tight

You could try to use a punch through the other hole and knock it back out
Or leave it........

I Myself would probably try to gently get it pushed back out with a punch

That is why they put the spacers in most likely.....

Mac

Mac, Gently tapped with no results. Looking closer, there is a tear in the aluminum. You can see it in the 2nd photo at 4 3/4" on the ruler. Think I need to have a rigger take a look.
Marc

I'm thinking the two spreaders held onto the outside of the mast ought to be 'floppy' tight.
These should be able to move around at the outer ends. And kind of snug at the mast.
Once the mast is up a long boat hook can be used to slide the spreaders up or down on the standing rigging until the spreaders are horizontal.
At that point the tension can be adjusted or readjusted at the turnbuckles.
REMEMBER to sight up the mast when laying on the vee birth and looking through the deck hatch. What actually can be seen are the shrouds imposing 'kinks' onto the mast. The mast ought to be straight. No kinks. And when under sail, the lee side is a little slack while the windward side is taught.
This is all easy to do and nothing fancy about it.

skip.

Might be a good idea, could possibly be repaired.

Sometimes companies wont repair them with Liabilities in mind.

If you need to purchase a new mast (doubtful, I have seen some bad rigs still standing and sailing them every weekend....)
you could purchase frome DWYER mast company

https://www.dwyermast.com

Not sure on costs, as it would be shipped... but a option none the less.
all your current pieces could be purchased also, but I would just use the old ones unless they are worn badly.

A welding company could probably weld the up or any issues after it is banged back out.
One thing to note on Aluminum, As it is welded, it is crystalized, and so Aluminum only welds a few times, like 2 or 3, before it is a mess......

You could also fix it with JB weld, Sanding the area really well, JB it, then sand to profile, then drill, re attach bolt, being sure to not overtighten, and you would be good to go.

It looks as if the SS piece pushed into the mast, causing that to happen. I am pretty positive from overtightening.

Mac

No need to weld this aluminium mast. Why imbrittle the metal and have a ugly globby weld job? And the anodized coating will be lost. If the dent is a bother then place a fender washer 'tween the spreader socket and the mast. Bolt the assembly together and go sailing. 'Don't squeeze the water out of the fasteners'. That will hold the spreader socket [plus thickness of washer] off the mast. "Can't see it from Brussels".

skip.

A Palmer Johnson Yacht being built in Sturgeon Bay, Wisconsin; One of two 210 foot-Positive displacement hulls, being finished for some Russian buyers. Twin bow thrusters and stern thrusters, ALL Aluminium with Al Grip [bondo] above the waterline. No Al Grip under waterline. Two Mann diesels, V-16 with Twin Disc transmissions. Had to take the door off the Assembly barn cut cut the valance higher to the bottom of the rafters and cut holes clean through the decks to lower the engines, mufflers, transmissions and generator sets into her bowels. Funny thing is the Russian buyers can't get visa's to come watch their boat being built, so they hired an Austrian to watch and report back for them. He just came back from a little side trip to Utah 'cause he had never been there before.

The dent doesn't bother me - well it does but I can overlook it if I try hard. What does bother me is the idea that the mast strength may be compromised. I can do a washer or JB Weld but am I just ignoring a problem I should be concerned about?
Marc

Have not lost any strength in the mast. Mast is still straight. Un kinked.
The mast still has that unmolested center roll in it.
The fender washers only reposition the sockets flat on the mast. Which is what you want.

skip.

Talked to another guy about this and he said he would not worry about it.
Small boat, small loads.

Then when I said that was a tear, he said he would maybe use a little JB spread into the crack spot and "Fuhgetta bout it."

I feel like going to subway and getting a Italian sub sandwich....

Get the proper length bolt and fender washer it out.

should be good as gold then.

The welding all I was thinking was TIG welding it, and he did agree with that, but definitely wasn't thinking about filling in the area.

Mac

2 things:
   First: with the fender washer fix, you are still transferring the loads to the sidewalls of the mast. Seems that the mast isn't designed to take any loads from the side. There must be a way to install a spacer. If there is a larger hole in one side of the mast, isn't that where a spacer could be installed? It doesn't need to be really thick- the load places the spacer in compression. Why don't you guys call Dywer or Compac?
   Second: Fuhgettaboutit is one word.
Bob23

Glad to hear you folks don't think this is a serious issue. My inclination is to use JB Weld, though I'd like the color of the repair to match the mast. It's been years since I've used it but still have some left to mix up and try out.

Bob23 - you've got a good point about sidewall compression and the value of having a spacer there. I currently have 2 small holes just large enough for the bolt. If other masts have a larger hole to be able to insert a spacer, there's no reason why I can't enlarge one of the holes I currently have. Don't see a problem of enlarging one of them just enough to put in a spacer. I'm sure I can pick up a plastic stout spacer/bushing in a hardware store.

I'll give Dwyer a call and get their opinion.

Marc

" good point about sidewall compression and the value of having a spacer there "

Hummmm I'm not so convinced about that spacer need. The one piece mast is just not a hollow tube, it has a center extruded
'backbone' running full length top to bottom. The side load from a prooperly tightened set of spreaders is nothing when compared to dumb wrenching some person imposed on the bolt and made it so tight it pulls the outer extrusion closed ONLY AT THE BOLT AND ITS NUT. A testament to how strong the extruded aluminium mast really is.
On a hard sailing day I'll bet the mast is not strained more than 1/4 of it's fail point.

skip.

I talked the issue over with my marina manager. He agreed with you guys. JB Weld or washers, throw in a compression tube then go sailing.  I had also sent a query to Dwyer. Their response is below. I was surprised by their comment re the compression tube.
Marc



  "We do not have any expertise repairing masts and are not familiar with  JB Weld

  Most commonly we are asked to supply short pieces of
  extrusion for fabricators seeking to fashion a splice to rejoin two sections of mast after removing damaged material.

  I  don't know the reason but the production print specifies no compression tube.

  Best Regards,
  Dwyer Aluminum Mast

I had contacted Gerry at Hutchins. He said if it was him, he'd continue to use the mast but said it in a rather guarded way.  I was concerned about this since Buzzards Bay has a lot of wind & a lot of chop and I didn't want to be worrying about the mast. I decided to bring the mast to Dwyer. My intention was to replace the mast. I brought it there so they could transfer my existing hardware to the new mast.  The shop manager took a look and said no problem, "It's just getting broken in".  I asked about a spacer and said it would be a good idea. He drilled out a larger hole, cut a spacer to fit and sent me on my way. All for no charge.
I've faired out the dimple with JB Weld and am ready to go. You guys were right on the money with your advice. Thanks again.
Marc

WOW!! We finally gave someone correct advice...imagine that!!! What are the odds of that? Reminds me of "Stump the Chumps" on CarTalk.
bob23