Com-Pac Yacht Owners Association

This past week I did a good amount of sailing in my '83 16 at Burt Lake, Michigan's third largest inland lake.  My friend also had his 16' Hobie Cat there.  One thing I noticed again was how bad my main sheet cleat appears to be designed.  I found this pic from another thread.  It shows the type of cleat I have on the left side.  I imagine this is the original from the factory.  I have a 5/16" main sheet.  If I put it in the cleat, I have to actually play it out by hand to let the sail out.  While sailing on my buddy's Hobie, I noted that he can cleat and uncleat his main with little more than a flick of the wrist, the cleat swivels around, etc.  
(http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r14/wolverine00xj/swivelbase1.jpg)

This got me thinking of how to get a better setup.  It seems that this cleat should swivel, and be easier to cleat and uncleat.  One my current setup, one of the jaws does not close, so I assume that an internal spring has gone bad or something.  So, I'm going to have to repair or replace it anyway.  The setup in the pic above looks great, but it's a bit pricey, as far as I can tell.  Also, I'm not sure what the pulley does, other than line up the sheet.  I found the Ronstan swivel cleat pictured below for about $65.00.  Does anyone use one like that?  Anyone see any problems with it?  Any other suggestions?  
Thanks!

(http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r14/wolverine00xj/Ronstanswivelbasecleat.jpg)

the bullseye cleat you've shown is not optimal, it will feed slowly with the sheet bending around the bulleyes.  That part would be useful for a genoa track, except of course it can't be mounted on a track!  I used that exact part for a halyard cleat, but if doing again I would have just used a fixed non swiveling cleat.

I suggest geting a Rontan standup pivoting setup like the pic shows.

Here's one on my old 16 that I installed.
Worked well and very similar to factory installed setup on our 19.

(http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z290/yamaholic_mcarp/Compac%2016/PICT7600.jpg)

Wow - nice looking setup - and rails!  Thanks for the reply.  I'm in the research stage right now, so still searching and pricing things.   

http://cpyoa.geekworkshosting.com/forum/index.php?topic=5337.0

I did search before posting - honest!  I don't know how I missed that thread.  Thanks - all this is helpful.
Gabi - do you have the part # for the lower block?

Why are there two jam cleats? One on the cockpit combing and one with the pulley?

skip.

Just didn't want to remove it and leave holes. The new cleat with block was too large to fit where the original cleat sat.

sure, its  92013

Gabi - thanks.  I have one on order now.

Hey Wolverine, have you received your Nautos mainsheet block yet? I'd like to know how it works for you. I had the same problem with my main when I was out on the lake Sunday. Just getting used to my new old boat so discover something to attend to every time I go out!

Island Time, I'm also looking at the one you suggested from Ronstan. Do you know the part #?

Thanks!

Another question for you fine folks. What mm sizes do I need in blocks for the CP16? I see the Nautos 92013 is 57mm and the Harken fiddle block is 40mm, so I'm confused. I'm referring to the parts in Gabbi's link. Thanks.

I did get my parts from Nautos, and I have installed them.  However, I have not yet had a chance to sail with them (unfortunately).  I will post some pics of the setup soon.

Island Time, I'm also looking at the one you suggested from Ronstan. Do you know the part #?

I have no idea, that was a project from several years ago. Sorry.

Hi All, I finally got the photo thing figured out so I'm gonna post photos of my mainsheet configuration. I really don't understand why it jams up. All three parts seem to swivel fine. Before I start replacing things I'd like all you experienced sailors to suggest what would work better or how I can improve what I have.

The mainsheet starts tied to an eye fitting on the port side.

Then up to the double block on the boom:

(http://i1175.photobucket.com/albums/r633/PamelinaWeena/Forever%2016/5988cab42bb071b4c05a71f8d198e4c8.jpg)

then down to this swivel block

(http://i1175.photobucket.com/albums/r633/PamelinaWeena/Forever%2016/2bf113ca2ddb969e79ca08fad214651a.jpg)

Back up to the double block and down to this:

(http://i1175.photobucket.com/albums/r633/PamelinaWeena/Forever%2016/4734f5afc53a1056dc8628051e22ad9b.jpg)

When I let the sheet out during a gust, it seems to re-cleat its self, which is not good. Could the cam cleat be upside down?

Anyway, I look forward to your suggestions to this delimma!

Well, I installed my new main sheet setup.  I don't have pics, but it's the same as the one on this thread: 
http://cpyoa.geekworkshosting.com/forum/index.php?topic=5337.0
I e-mailed the link to the guys at Nautos, and they gave me a list of the parts in the picture, which I then ordered.
I got in quite a bit of sailing over Labor Day - over 20 miles (a lot for me).  About 13 of that was in wind up to about 15 mph or so, and the last 7-8 was in winds of over 20 mph - with much stronger gusts.  In general I was very pleased with the setup.  However, I found that with the arm with the cleat on it facing downward (I mean the little "U" shaped thing on top of the cleat facing downward, as in the top pic), given the angle that I was pulling at, the "default" position of the sheet was cleated, and it was difficult to uncleat.  In fact, I had to reach over with my toe and push the sheet downward and out of the cleat so that it could ride in the "U" shaped bracket.  That was OK while barefoot, but in colder conditions it would be a problem.  On the windier day, I was so concerned about being able to uncleat in time for a gust, that I pulled the sheet out of the cleat and block altogether and sailed with it in my hand.  The sail was short enough that my office worker hands were OK, but on a longer sail, I could see that this would be a problem.  I would like to have it set up so that it could ride in the "U" easily, and cleated when I want, and then earily uncleated.  This coming weekend I want to play around with adjusting the position of the arm with the cleat, to see if I can bet a better angle.  I messed around with the other evening, and the arm position can be changed, but I can't flip it around entirely.  Overall, it is a big improvement, and with some tweaking, I think I can get it much better. 

I'm afraid to say, but the inverted cam cleat is not designed for use on our mainsheet systems and is probably a poor choice for it. If the cleat was high up where you would pull it down, like on a Legacy, that would work.

One should be able to hold on to the mainsheet with it cleated off and uncleat it from anywhere in the cockpit. The downward pull cleat won't let you do that.

With the downward facing cam, you would have to hold the line within a foot or so of the cleat, pulling down watching to not bang your knuckes on the cockpit seat area.
Now why it recleats itself is odd.  Can the block be adjusted down which would change the horizontal location of the sheet to perhaps not cleat itself? Maybe the block sheave needs to be larger? Is the line too thick?  looks like 3/8" line which is too big. 1/4" for a CP16, 5/16" for a 19/23 is suggested.
Maybe it's just kinking enough to grab the teeth on the cam cleat?

You can also try to tie the end of the sheet to the becket on the cam cleat block--maybe that will help raise the assembly up a bit?

IMO, the upward facing cam is the way to go here, and the Ronstan one I showed worked extremely well.

Salty - thanks for the input.  The sheet is 5/16", and the sheave is correct for that size line, so I don't think that's the problem.  This weekend I'm going to set up the mast and boom on the boat in the driveway, and play around with it.  I think what I'm going to try is to flip the block over so the cam faces up, with the "U" shaped item above it.  In that position, the rotating attachment point of the block will be facing up, and the fixed one down.  I'll just tie it there as I experiment, but if it works, I found a jaw to jaw pivoting stainless shackle that I can use to get it to rotate.

   WOLVERINE 00 xj I sent you a pm about the Nautos 92013 main sheet system.
   
   Would like to talk to you about your experience with the system.

   NAY

Salty19,

Your picture looks like the CP-16 I am picking up tomorrow in Crossville TN.

New to the forum now that I have a CP-16.

Dan

New owner 1982 CP-16 "Molly Malone"

Hi Dan, and let me be the first to welcome you. Maybe you're getting Salty's old 16? We look forward to your future posts about your adventures in messing about in your new 16! Any photos?
bob23 in NJ

Quote from: skip1930 on November 17, 2012, 10:03:30 AM
[center(http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh299/1930fordroadster/ComPac%2019/008-Copy.jpg)

Skip,
What is the story behind the bell??

Hi Dan,

Well, it's not every day you can welcome someone on the forum that, just today, picked up your old boat!!!  She was an 82 and indeed is the boat shown in the pics. Congratulations!  We loved her she was solid!

Speaking of which, I would love to see pictures of it when clean her up.

She was very well equipped and in good shape when it left Ohio, so hopefully it won't need much.  We sold it to my brother in 2009. He sailed it the 2010 season and sold it late that year to a gentlemen in TN.   Before that, it was sailed for 3 years around Columbus OH by us, prior to that another guy in Columbus for 3 years, then before that Saginaw Bay, MI area. Before that, we have no idea where she was sailed but knew it only been in freshwater.  In fact, she might still have the "permanent" MI trailer plates!

Does she still have the homemade PVC/Mahogany furler? You'll have to let the crew know how it's holding up.  

There was nothing we knew wrong with it in 2009 so hopefully it's in as good or better shape than we left it.
The only thing I would say the look out for in addition to normal inspections is the genoa track/rail tightness.  You'll see there are aluminum bar stock acting as backing plates between the studs (which are all cut special length). Since it's sandwiching the foam, it might have worked itself a little looser.  We never had a problem but one can see how it might loosen.  To fix, dig out the foam and use a fender washer up against the fiberglass directly (be sure the washer isn't big enough to distort around the fiberglass bends). Could crack the glass.

It has the full IDA foiled rudder assembly being discussed in a 19 thread.  It totally transformed the boat, IMO along with new sails.

If for some reason you don't hold on the boat too long (not that that will happen..a lot of folks hold onto 16's for years) please let me know.  We've been thinking about getting another one to trailer around.  Right now is not the time but in the future who knows.

Just got back from picking her up from the TN owner.  He had bought it to teach his grandchildren how to sail and had no takers.

I had an 82 in 96 that the ex got and have had a few others boats since then, but none were used like the CP-16 was so I wanted another one.  Been looking since April of this year, but with no job kind of hard to buy one.  In Sept got a job in Alabama (from NH) that pays very good and I am right on Wheeler Lake.  So I had the cash to buy a boat and found this one in TN - 4 hours away. 

She is in great shape, still has the roller furler, but the genoa rail is gone and the tracks are where mine were on the old boat.  Still has the MI plates and trailer looks like new.  Will spend time tomorrow sorting things out and figure where everything goes.  Love the upgrade on all the swivel blocks.

Dan
CP-16 - Molly Malone

Glad you made it home safe.  We towed it a few times 400 miles one way and she never misbehaved.
That's hillarious the Michigan plates are still on there!  Check with your state, they must just honor them and you may never need to pay trailer license fees.

No rails? Ah...those were the best feature of the boat! Well, custom anyway.  He must of bent the tracks to the coaming.

You'll love the boat I suspect..wait till you try the rudder. She will tack more smartly, haul closer to the wind and reduce drag.

Hi Skip, I like your set up with the swivel. Looks like a good angle of attack on the mainsheet.  I will be getting one soon but see so many choices and sizes. Do you still have the make and part # ?  Thanks.
I am in the process of adding "Sailrite" nylon slides (or slugs) to the luff of the mainsail. This should make raising and lowering the mainsail much faster and easier.

Mandolinut:
   I have slugs on the mainsail of my 23 and I wouldn't trade 'em for all the coffee in Ethiopia. Well, maybe I would. It does indeed make raising and lowering easy and I install a sailstop above the cutout on the mast so when dropping the main, it kinda stacks up there. All the slugs are always in the sail slot in the mast...nice.
bob23
   

Eagleye wants to know about the bell.

mandolinut likes the angle of the dangle that is equal to the mass of the a...

The bell. First I liked the tone. I purchased this non approved Coast Guard brass bell and mounting arm at Yacht Works in Sister Bay, Wisconsin where I also bought my CP-19. I think the bell is technically too small in dia for the Coast Guards liking. Well give 'em the one finger salute. But it fits these smaller Com-Pacs nicely.

Now understand that my boat did not come with a stern rail and the Bosch stern light was mounted on top of the cockpit combing. Right where the stern flag staff is mounted. The flag staff covers the hole left by the light nicely.

The stern rail came with a welded on plate complete with holes to mount the stern light way up off the cockpit combing. And the foot of the stern rail was hollow so a couple of wires could be snaked up to the plate for the light. It also was the perfect place for a piece of scrap teak wood from Palmer Johnson Yachts that I carved to fit the round rail and screwed to this mounting plate and from that chunk of wood the mounting arm for the bell could be mounted. I tied a monkey's fist and braided a flat belt to be hung from the clacker out of some small stuff. It all works well and the bell is heard from a great distance. Well I was told that by a bridle party on shore that I sneaked up on when drift sailing at night.

During spirited sailing the clacker lightly strikes the bell.

The swivel? At the end of the boom? Or at the cam cleat? At boom's end the factory side by side was a pain, it continually was twisting the main sheet. By design the side by side 4 gang sheave just is no good in light air. So Gahauher's in line was the best option. Yes I have the part number, no I can't ascertain the number as it is contained in my three ring notebook of everything I purchased for my boat...and that notebook is on the boat that is winter storage. The guy with the key lives in Green Bay and he comes up on Friday every so often. Since he's in his 80's I hate to bother him.

skip.

Thanks Skip.......
I knew there had to be a good story there.

Allen

Thanks Skip,
I was actually asking about the stern hardware that cleats off the main sheet. Your hardware appears to leave the uncleated mainsheet line in a useful upper angled position. Is that hardware made by the same company as your boom pully?  I do not live near a sailing / marine store  where I can physically check out these items so will have to order on line based on what I see and learn from those that have been there before me. Thanks for your help.

I was actually asking about the stern hardware that cleats off the main sheet

That is bone stock from the factory. All I did was put a little bend 'up' on the base plate that the jam cleat is mounted on' Probabily made by Gahauer [sp].

skip.

This is an image from Garhauer Marine. I believe this is the one I will use. Thanks Skip.  Looking forward to being able to release the mainsail quickly without pushing on the boom ;-)

http://garhauermarine.com/images/product/MS-SJ.jpg

http://garhauermarine.com/catalog_process.cfm?cid=63

Just realized the piece of hardware listed above will not work since there is no point to attach the end of the mainsheet line  >:(

From another C-19 newbie ; trailering her home soon to Columbus Oh. ( small world ) from Sandusky area. Noted that C-19s do not have travelers. I plan to change that, a quick look and I didn't see a thread on the subject. Have some ideas to get the advantage without a rigid bar, perhaps a line with clam cleats on each end across the transom, center point fixed to a reworked  main sheet. Anyone chime in, thanks. Looking forward to life with the C-19!

Hey we're neighbors, numb.  Do you sail Hoover or Alum?  We're at the marina near the dam on Hoover.  Impossible to get a slip at Alum (long wait list). Fine, really, Hoover is much more peaceful anyway.

I'm not sure I understand your mainsail setup.  Wouldn't the traveler need to be near the companionway for downward pull advantage?
Mounting clam cleats on the stern ends doesn't seem a good idea..seems like it would be a step backwards from the factory setup.  I'm probably not understanding it...long day.

Would be fun to go sailing next year!

Salty!

Yes, I have talked to the City about the Hoover lotto in April and will try, I used to be on Hoover in the 70's then Alum ( hit the state dock lotto ) then the lake went dry and I've been on Erie since. Sold my Ericson 27 and got the 19. will look you up this spring if not before. Thanks for getting back. I want to talk to Wolverine, want to trailer sail Mich again, I know Burt and have been on parts the 40 miles of lakes and canals there near my cabin in a canoe. One reason why I went with the CP-19 is to explore more!