I've decided to put a 140 genoa on an CDI FF! to easy both sail handling and trips to the bow underway. I had hoped to use a Johnson type tensioner similar to that in the "Mastender" systems Com_Pac uses on its newer sloops and cat boats. But CDI says that won't work with their system as the drum must go over the turnbuckle. My question is how can I increase tension on the forestay after using a clevis or pushpin to secure the mast? Keep in mind I've benefited from Social Security for some years now and both dexterity and strength are on the ebb
Many thanks.
Jamato - I adjust forestay tension indirectly by adjusting backstay tension at the turnbuckle on the transom (I have a 19). I imagine you would do the same for the 16, yes?
Wes
No backstay on the 16's.
I believe you'll simply lift up the furler a few inches to adjust the turnbuckle. However I don't use a CDI but rather a Harken so wait for a reply from someone who has the CDI for the right answer. In fact I had to cut the Harken foil a precise length to allow for this lift.
jamato
I use a quick release tensioner on the head stay of my CP-16. It saves time and fielding around at the ramp and it helps me keep consistent rig setting tension. I thought that if I added a CDI FF to my boat I would try using a standard turnbuckle on the head stay and try the quick release tensioner on one of the side stays. Once I have the rig tuned and pined where I wanted it, I could ease the tensioner on the side stay to slack the head stay with furler. That would give me enough slack to pin and un-pin the head stay and not have to fiddle with the turnbuckle under the furler drum. I use a CDI FF2 on a bigger boat. There is not enough room under the drum for a quick release tensioner. I use a quick release tensioner on the back stay of that boat. I don't have an adjustable back stay on that boat. It works for me like I described above.
Rich
Thanks Sailen, trying to figure out your method...how does the loosening of tension on the side stays make the forestay more slack for pinning? Interested as I haven't solved this problem yet.
The main idea is that the standing rigging on a Com-Pac 16 that supports the mast consists of three stays, the head stay and two side stays that run slightly aft of the mast. I think most people have a bolt at the base of their mast that connects the mast to the tabernacle, mast step.
Make sure that the base of the mast is bolted but free to move as if raising or lowering the mast when making adjustments to the stays. When you make an adjustment to one stay, it affects the other two. If you tighten up the port stay turnbuckle, it will pull the mast to the port aft and increase the tension on the other stays also. If you loosen the tension on that port turnbuckle, it will allow the mast to move forward and slightly starboard and ease the tension on the other two stays also.
With the quick release opened, but still pined to the chain plate, the other two stays will go slack. The mast may shift slightly to one side and a little forward as the tension is eased on the side stay. This will give some slack to the head stay so that you can easily remove the pin from the chain plate and then lower the mast to the stern.
My CP-16 is in my front yard at the moment. If I can get the time tomorrow I will try and set up my rig and take pictures. I don't have a furler on that boat but I will try it out for my own curiosity and find out how it works. May be it will work well and may be not so good. I will post again as soon as I can.
Brilliant! As soon as these thunder clouds pass, I'll drag "Bel" out of the garage and test the theory but sounds like their is a Johnson stay tensioner in my future. Thanks.
(http://i847.photobucket.com/albums/ab32/jamato323/P7040012.jpg)
Jamato,
Wow! You got chocolate in my peanut butter! I think we came up with something great. I tried my stay tensioner out on one of the side stays and used a standard turnbuckle on the head stay. It worked very well. I think I will keep my tensioner on the side stay even though I don't have a furler on this boat... yet.
It was too dark to take photos when I got home late from work today. I think I will install my CDI FF2 drum onto the CP-16 head stay and try to take some photos of the whole set up for you. I have to go out of town this weekend so it may be Monday when I can update this post.
That is a nice photo and a great looking boat!
Rich
Many thanks, Rich. I think you've solved my problem. Ordered the FF! and 135 genoa yesterday. She is a great looking boat....for an older girl she shows her age well.
I have applied for a special Florida "antique" registration which allows me to skip annual reg. fees.
Thanks again, look forward to the pics.
Tried out roll reefing on main today....still sailing the driveway but getting closer to water every day.
(http://i847.photobucket.com/albums/ab32/jamato323/P7140034.jpg)
The Florida Antique registration is a great thing!
Our old boats qualify and the only cost is the annual filing fee, just over $5.00.
The Antique sticker is good looking too.
Ok here are some photos that I hope will help show the general idea with a description. It is worth mentioning a few things about using a tensioner / quick release lever like this.
1. It is handy to have the quick pins on a lanyard so they can't get dropped or lost.
2. The cotter pin or cotter ring used to secure an open turnbuckle will not work with this set up to keep the tensioner from spinning on the shroud stud.
3. I use a nut on the shroud stud as a jam nut to lock the tensioner turnbuckle adjustment in place.
4. Make all adjustments to your standing rigging as if starting from scratch to set your rig how you want it.
5. Pay close attention when setting this up for proper tension. This device uses mechanical advantage to pull tension on the rig when closing the lever. It can be very easy to put excessive tension and load on you rig.
I use this quick release because of the ease of operation, no tools needed at the boat ramp, my rig tune is already set where I want it, and the time saved to rig up and take down.
(http://i789.photobucket.com/albums/yy171/ABV83cp16/Miscellaneous/20.jpg)
This is my side stay with the original turnbuckle removed and a nut put on the stud.
(http://i789.photobucket.com/albums/yy171/ABV83cp16/Miscellaneous/215.jpg)
My pins are secured with a stainless steel lanyard to keep them handy and from getting lost.
(http://i789.photobucket.com/albums/yy171/ABV83cp16/Miscellaneous/21.jpg)
Install and adjust the quick release on the shroud stud.
(http://i789.photobucket.com/albums/yy171/ABV83cp16/Miscellaneous/22.jpg)
Attach the quick release to the chain plate with pin. Tighten the jam nut on shroud stud after final adjustments to rig tune.
(http://i789.photobucket.com/albums/yy171/ABV83cp16/Miscellaneous/23.jpg)
I use the end of my topping lift and loop it around my bow cleat when I raise and lower my mast to hold the rig up. This gives me two hands to work with and I can move anywhere I need to pin or un-pin the head stay.
(http://i789.photobucket.com/albums/yy171/ABV83cp16/Miscellaneous/24.jpg)
This is the head stay with the original turnbuckle installed. Your CDI FF will have a cup and drum installed over the lower stud and cover up the turnbuckle. You will be able to slide the drum up to make adjustments to the turnbuckle and install cotter pins. There will not be enough room for the quick release. It is nice to not have to mess with all that once it is set up other than routine inspection. You can see that with the quick release lever attached and open that I have about three inches of slack to work with.
(http://i789.photobucket.com/albums/yy171/ABV83cp16/Miscellaneous/25.jpg)
Easy to pin and un-pin the turnbuckle with this kind of slack and the rig is temporarily held up with the topping lift looped on my bow cleat.
(http://i789.photobucket.com/albums/yy171/ABV83cp16/Miscellaneous/26.jpg)
Release the topping lift from the bow cleat and close the quick release lever.
(http://i789.photobucket.com/albums/yy171/ABV83cp16/Miscellaneous/27.jpg)
Insert the pin.
(http://i789.photobucket.com/albums/yy171/ABV83cp16/Miscellaneous/28.jpg)
I cover the whole setup to keep anything from fouling up or getting pulled loose.
(http://i789.photobucket.com/albums/yy171/ABV83cp16/Miscellaneous/29.jpg)
The head stay is pined and the rig is tuned.
Hey Rich:
What is the make and model of the tensioner you installed on your 16. A got a close look at it on your Photobucket and their appears to be a hole in the clevis pin through which you secure the swagged end of the side stay....correct? That's what I need. I have the CS Johnson tensioner which doesn't have that.
Great pictures.
Thanks
Quote from: jamato on July 14, 2012, 12:01:31 PM
Tried out roll reefing on main today....still sailing the driveway but getting closer to water every day.
(http://i847.photobucket.com/albums/ab32/jamato323/P7140034.jpg)
Roller furling on the main sail:
Please tell us about it.
Pacman,
It is built right in. Just pull the boom toward you and you should be able to rotate it to roll the sail onto the boom. My Flying Scot was the same way though it was a pain due to the sorta mid boom sheeting it used.
Shawn
Real easy, Pacman, the gooseneck is spring loaded. Just make sure the topping lift is not attached. I have tried storing the main furled on the boom to cut down on launch time (I'm a former two time SunCatter) but me thinks it would be easier just to flake it neatly on the boom, sail tie it and remove boom.
Jamato,
Here is a link to where I found my quick release turnbuckle. Catalina Direct will make the stainless steel lanyard in their shop but I don't think they make the quick release lever. I don't recall what brand is but I will try to find out. I will take a close up of the logo stamped into the lever. Maybe someone will recognize what brand it is. The one for the C-22 fits a 1/4'' X Fine, same size stud on a Com-Pac 16.
http://www.catalinadirect.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&product_ID=439&ParentCat=96
Rich
I know that C.S. Johnson Company makes them. Might be who you are thinking of. I just ordered a new forestay with the lever from Hutchins. On the Hutchins website there is a video showing a Legacy being rigged with a forestay that has a lever. Try this link www.csjohnson.com
That't the one.
THanks,
Rich
Sailen:
I've ordered the tensioner from Catalina. Question: do you use a nut to secure the shroud stud. I'm assuming it doesn't screw on.
Jamato,
Yes I use a nut on the shroud stud to secure the quick release / tensioner to keen the adjustment set and for safety. When you see your lever, you will see that the pin in the lever has a hole with threads in it. The shroud stud will screw onto the hole in the pin just like it will screw into a turnbuckle. Because the way it all fits together, a cotter pin or ring is useless the secure the lever from turning. Good luck with the new rig and good sailing.
Rich
Thanks Rich et al for your help on this. I just installed the unit on my port shroud. Works like a charm.
Quote from: Pacman on July 14, 2012, 05:13:58 PM
The Florida Antique registration is a great thing!
Our old boats qualify and the only cost is the annual filing fee, just over $5.00.
The Antique sticker is good looking too.
Well, I registered my CP-16 a few weeks ago and the clerk mentioned the antique sticker, but she didn't mention the perks, so I got a regular sticker. Will have to check into this more. I thought it was just a decoration! Thanks for the heads up!
Sorry for delay in posting Pamelina. The antique sticker does not take the place of your regular state reg. sticker. It simply makes annual renewal of same much cheaper...and looks great!
Ok, I installed a quick release tensioner on my starboard shroud this spring. I had to readjust the port turnbuckle to rebalance the rig (side to side) - everything set up nicely. It became easy to raise the rig and fasten the forestay (CDI Furler and all) with the tensioner released. That quick release pin on the tensioner was so neat I decided to use one on the forestay (no more wrestling that darn cotter ring into the pin hole). Baaad idea! When I was out on the lake a couple of days later, sailing under light winds, that quick release pin did - all by itself. To make a long story short, after replacing the mast tabernacle twice and the CDI Furler Luff once ($$), I still use the tensioner but am back to the cotter ring in the forestay pin....Lesson learned: the shroud tensioner is a good idea, substituting for the cotter ring in the forestay pin, not so much!
Kinda surprised this happened as the pin is the way the tensioner on the mast tender system works....there are actually two pins: one to pin the shackle to the foredeck and the second to pin the tensioner in the closed position. I'm no stranger to replacing tabernacles. After replacing one I ordered from Hutchins I'm having one fabricated for 1/4 aluminum to give more lateral support as I raise and lower mast. Fair winds to you!