I've been looking at a '86ish 27/2 for a looong time now. Its been on the hard at a local Marina for about 6 years. The boat seems to be in great shape, other than needing a cosmetic cleanup, possibly new sails, and new running rigging. Its kept at a very well known marina and the engine was professionally winterized. I've looked it over pretty well and I don't see any major problems (Hull looks good, bottom paint looks good, standing rigging looks good, ect). The bilge has a bit of oil in it...after looking the engine over pretty well, I think its just from either an oil change spill or a slow drip on the bottom of the pan.
The owner seems like he finally gave up on the hope of putting her in the water and asked me to make an offer! I've been dreaming of this boat for years now. I don't want to insult him with a lowball offer...but at the same time I want to get a good deal and I'm cautious of what I might run into with a boat thats been on the hard for so long.
What do I offer him???????? I want to do this soon, before he changes his mind....
Thanks!
Somewhere on this message board, a person with an economics background did analysis of just this.....value of Compacs. However, if memory serves, he didn't include 27s but I may be mistaken. I will see if I can dig it up.
With that said, my swag = $18-20k?
M'surf - First I recommend you get a survey done. That will give you the starting point. However the ave retail on an 88 CP-27/2 is around 13 - 14 K in REALLY good condition.
TG
The majority of the 1988 era boats reported sold on Sailing Texas and other sites look to be in the $18000 - $22000 range.
I would start at 18k and subtract all repairs that need to be done to bring it to avg condition. Then figure how much less for a deal to offer.
BobK
Quote from: Saluki86 on May 03, 2012, 04:51:35 PM
Somewhere on this message board, a person with an economics background did analysis of just this.....value of Compacs. However, if memory serves, he didn't include 27s but I may be mistaken. I will see if I can dig it up.
With that said, my swag = $18-20k?
I did the economic analysis on used Com-Pac prices, but it didn't include the 27s.
What are you willing to pay for it? I like getting a deal as much as the next guy (maybe even a little more than the next guy), but if it is the boat that you really want, in good condition, in the location that you want, then offer what you're willing to pay, or maybe 2,000 less than you're willing so there is some wiggle room on your end.
He has had it sitting on the hard for years, so he doesn't seem like he really needs to sell it, he could just as well sit on it for another couple years. It doesn't sound like he will go for a low ball offer unless he really likes you. He could just as well put a for sale sign on it and see what kinds of other bids he could get. If you really want the boat, I would just be upfront and tell him you're willing to pay $x. From Sailing Texas it looks like the market price is in that $18-22k range as others have said.
Thanks for all the input!! I've been trying to get a hold of the owner but haven't had any luck...he's a busy guy. I'm keeping my fingers crossed.
I had a chance to stop by the boat at the marina. She definitely needs a lot of work. Sails (or at least work on the sails). The oil in the bilge makes me very nervous. It needs new running rigging. A good cleaning in and out (touch up on the bottom paint, deck scrubbing, hull polishing). Full tank of old diesel fuel. Looks like a possible leak in the waste tank. Old battery. Re-seal all port holes. A lot of little things... Hopefully nothing to major, but a project like this is right up my alley.
Hopefully she'll have a new home soon.
You can always go up. So try $8,500 and see if anyone bites. Your going to put that much into it before she ever hits the water.
Your buying it for parts as far as anyone knows. "
I don't want to insult him with a lowball offer. ". Bull Crap. He's not your buddy and if he can't get his boat in the water in six years, he has pretty much walked away from it. And you want the trailer, cradle, or supports to boot. And any tax he pays. Your doing him a favor taking the hulk off of his hands, right?
Your only looking at the stuff you can see. There is stuff you don't even know about that your going to spend money on. Cutless bearing comes to mind. Bacteria in the diesel tank, fuel filters, head problems, pottable water headaches, galley fodder, shall we go on?
If the boat was in the water and sailed last year, that would be a whole different story.
The owner needs a dose of reality....he wants more? Tell him to sell it to someone else. [In six years time there be no one else.] Then make an offer again.
Remember; the bigger the boat the less you go sailing. And now you'll have a boat you can't easily tow, pull, store, and park some where for free. You just entered the world of big boats, and big money. "I might be cheap but I ain't free."
Your in the driver's seat. skip.
(http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh299/1930fordroadster/ComPac27frontpage.jpg)
(http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh299/1930fordroadster/ComPac27backpage.jpg)
(http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh299/1930fordroadster/boatpics032.jpg)
I was crewing with a guy this weekend on his Flying Scot. I commented how nice his boat was. He said the rule of thumb for FS is "$1.3 x the hull number" to derive the value. Never heard of that method before. Is there something similar for Compacs?
I did hear that bottom paint will dry and flake off if it is out of the water too long. So I would bet the paint that is on there now won't be once she gets wet and stretches out her sea legs.
I'm with Skip on this one. Maybe $8,500 is a little low, but he has probably been paying a monthly fee to the boat yard for the last 6 years, unless he knows someone at the marina. And I'm sure he would rather have $10k or so in his hand than a $150/month payment.
6years X 12 Months = 72 Months
$150 X 72 months = $10,800
However, you will easily spend twice this
Big boats area a whole new ball game and you will now be paying slip fees, bottom paint, and what not.
Quote from: Saluki86 on May 09, 2012, 10:25:06 AM
I was crewing with a guy this weekend on his Flying Scot. I commented how nice his boat was. He said the rule of thumb for FS is "$1.3 x the hull number" to derive the value. Never heard of that method before. Is there something similar for Compacs?
I did some statistical modeling on prices for the CP23, 19, and 16, but not the 27 (http://cpyoa.geekworkshosting.com/forum/index.php?topic=2892.0). All other things equal, you can knock $508 off for every year "old" a CP23 is (so a 1990 model sold in 2012 would now be 22 years old), for a CP19 it loses about $137 per year, and the 16 loses $110 for every year old. These are very rough averages, and it assumes the boat remains in the same overall condition. An older boat with new sails/electronics/improvements can gain some of the annual depreciation back, but newer boats in the same condition as an older model will almost always fetch a higher price.
Have you considered a survey to get a better idea of the costs you will face? If you have a professional surveyor in the area, his/her charges may be reasonable.
Nate,
I totally dig your analysis!
What do you use as a starting point? For instance, I am interested in a 1981 C16. How do I get the starting price to start subtracing the $110 per year?
Skip...I totally agree. The more I think about it the lower my offer price gets. Nate mentioned the possibility of me offering him a lowball price and the owner sitting on the boat for another three years. Thats what I was afraid of in the beginning, but hell...I've been looking at this boat for four years now...I'm pretty good at the waiting game as well.
People who buy things and never use them (yes, I don't think he ever had this boat in the water) seem to think they are worth what they paid...even if it was six to eight years ago. I'm not sure he realizes how much has to go into this boat to get her back sailing...if you were to hire someone to do all the things it needs, you're looking at a heafty sum of money.
Nate...the reason I mentioned bottom paint was for exactly the reason you suggested. It looks like the boat has fresh coat of bottom pain on it (approx six years on the hard...at least) and a few spots have flaked off (only two 6"x6" spots).
As someone else asked, what is the starting point for your analysis? The price new?
Thanks again all...still no contact, I'm going to give him a shout later today.
Before you call him look at this page:http://www.nadaguides.com/Boats/1986/Com-Pac-Hutchins/27-SL-29/Standard-Equipment (http://www.nadaguides.com/Boats/1986/Com-Pac-Hutchins/27-SL-29/Standard-Equipment)
TG
I purchased a 25 last summer that was on the hard for four/five years AND the po was making payments plus storage fees.. Asking price $20,000. Surveyor said hull was fine....I did a deal for 15k...after recommissioning and lots of replacements (furler, autopilot, running rigging etc. etc.) I'm up to $25,000. But I have the boat I want and never regretted the deal. Advice, offer enough to get a counter offer.
Quote from: Saluki86 on May 10, 2012, 04:28:03 PM
Nate,
I totally dig your analysis!
What do you use as a starting point? For instance, I am interested in a 1981 C16. How do I get the starting price to start subtracing the $110 per year?
To figure out the starting point, and how to adjust for condition of the boat and extras (like a trailer), is explained in this thread: http://cpyoa.geekworkshosting.com/forum/index.php?topic=2892.0
MomentSurf: You mentioned that people who have stuff they don't use tend to value it too highly. Actually most people value stuff they already have too highly (whether they use it or not) compared to it's market value, it's a well studied cognitive bias called "ownership bias" (http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2010/01/22/will-your-stock-hit-rock-bottom.aspx).
Hey Jamato, I've been looking at a CP25 and thinking of making an offer. I've been on several but never sailed one. Do you have any major complaints
as to how they sail. Is your boat diesel or outboard?
Thanks, TedW.
Hi Ted:
I love the way she sails kind of lumbering in a stylish way - like me. Seriously she has a lot of windage with a 30" draft so you have to pay attention or she will wander. Mine is the outboard model which I prefer...I have a Tohatsu 18. Contact me and I'll send some pics and offer
more opinion. You can also check here under the 25 forum for more info. Good luck. pdotscribneratcomcastdotnet
(http://i847.photobucket.com/albums/ab32/jamato323/3434420_0_210320111739_3.jpg)
Although I've never sailed on one, I like the fact that you get standing headroom in a trailerable boat. Not crazy about that much freeboard, but the headrooms gotta come from somewhere, right? I would'nt imagine they come up for sale too often.
bob23
At 4,900 empty "trailerable" is a stretch, Bob, but I agree its nice to be able to haul and run especially when you live with hurricane's as we do in SW FL. Since mine is in the water year round and did not come with a trailer, I purchased stands and the marina where she lives will pull her up
and out at the first sign of a bad blow. I agree with the windage point but at OAL of 28'2" she still maintains salty proportions.
True, I did not mean trailerable in the sense of launching at a ramp. But it's nice to be able to haul it over the road yourself. This is one reason I love my 23- she lives on HER trailer and can be towed behind MY truck. "We don't need no stinckin' winter storage fees!"
I'd like to sail on one...I might get hooked. I mean, gee- you have standing headroom and only draw 3 more inches than me!
bob23
Quote from: Bob23 on May 14, 2012, 07:26:50 PM
True, I did not mean trailerable in the sense of launching at a ramp. But it's nice to be able to haul it over the road yourself. This is one reason I love my 23- she lives on HER trailer and can be towed behind MY truck. "We don't need no stinckin' winter storage fees!"
I'd like to sail on one...I might get hooked. I mean, gee- you have standing headroom and only draw 3 more inches than me!
bob23
There is a CP25 berthed right next to my 23, and I am envious of the head room too. But you can tell just by looking at them that the mast is essentially the same. A little bit bigger genoa thanks to the longer deck, but overall its only a 41% increase in sail area compared to a 60% increase in displacement, and a LOT more windage compared to the 23. While the 25 doesn't look bad, I think the 23 has better proportions overall.
I'll take some comparative pictures sometime.
Howdy guys, long time no boat.
Anyway back on topic: When I purchased my 1986 CP27 the owner had it listed for 27K with a trailer in great condition and lots of upgrades. I offered 22K, he accepted. I owned her for several years, put a few thousand in, had the most fun anyone can have legally, then sold her for 20K. Mind you she sat on a road worthy trailer and was very, very well cared for with tons of upgrades including dingy davit/solar panel and much more.
The boat you mention needs sails, thats several thousand right off the top. Running rigging isn't much, probably a few hundred. Oil in the bilge needs close investigation. How is the cutlass and packing? Those may very well need replaced, not easy but doable. Fortunately with the foam core the little leaks are not much more than a nuisance. Pay special attention to the standing rigging as well as the wiring inside the mast. That can be a bitch. That's just the tip of the iceberg there.
Got any photos? That would help out a bunch.
without seeing it my best guess of an offer would be no more than 15K probably more like 13K
Good luck, hopefully you'll get her.
I wonder what PeterG sold his for? He just closed the deal a few weeks ago.
Bill: Nice to hear from you. So, no boats yet? I really enjoyed hearing of your past antics aboard "Pooka" in the Sea of Cortez.
I agree with Nate: the 23 has just about perfect proportions which is one reason I chose her, or, she chose me. When I was looking for a sailboat, my friend Bud had suggested a number of them and I wasn't impressed with any of them. Some were great deals so he was confused as to why I wasn't buying. My reply was: "Bud, I'll know the right boat because it'll stir my soul". Which is what happened when I first saw my 23. We're still in love but to be able to stand like a normal human being would be nice too.
Bob23
Sailors are anything but normal human beings.
Very well put. There are enough boring normal people around. Well, maybe not around here!
bob23
After I talked to the owner in May, I got the 'ol slip again. He told me to think about what I wanted to offer and give him a call...well, I called him a few times the following week but no answer and no call back. Unfortunately, this has happened in the past, so I wasn't surprised.
A couple weeks ago I was cleaning out my truck and came across his number. I figured I would give him a call and see if I got lucky. Well, at least he answered this time! We actually had a nice conversation. He seemed like an older man, who admittedly might not even be able to sail anymore. He apologized for never getting back to me but explained how much he loved the boat and even though he wasn't using it, he didn't want to let it go. I also get the feeling whatever money he gets for the boat won't change his life in any way, so that's not the motivating factor. We talked about the boat and why we both value it. I assured him it will go to good home and be appreciated as much as he did in the past. We went over what the boat needs, some possible hidden problems, and before we got off the phone...even though I knew he wasn't selling...I threw a number out. He assured me when the time comes I'll be the first to know. I hope he mulls around the offer and decides to sell. If not, I promised him this won't be the last time I bug him about it!
Funny, he was under the impression I thought he was crazy for not letting the boat go, meanwhile I was under the impression he thought I was crazy for calling him for the past four years.
Well, I suppose you're both crazy but don't worry: that's required for boat ownership.
Here we go again...My Steiger Craft is up for sale and I'm reaching out to the owner again, 2 years later!
I looked over the boat today to find all the same issues I described in original post...plus one thing that I would like some input on.
It looks like the keel has some water leaking out of it...
Starboard Keel
(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/640x480q90/838/7s0a.jpg)
close up
(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/640x480q90/834/apnfx.jpg)
(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/640x480q90/835/txsf.jpg)
Port Keel
(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/640x480q90/842/fcpc.jpg)
Thoughts?
How do I go about removing the cabin sole...can I inspect the keel area? I see no screws...does it just pry up? The bilge, behind the sole I mentioned, does have some standing water.
Salt water or fresh water area?
Mac
Cabin sole is screwed down, screw heads covered with teak plugs, may be hard to see. Once you find them you can drive in a wood screw through the center of the plug to force it out, revealing the screw head below.
Wes
I recently sold my 87 Tartan 28. Some of the psychology on my end: I really wasn't using it enough to justify the trip just to check on the bilge (2.5 hour drive). Wife doesn't like sailing. Sometimes the button you push to start the engine doesn't do anything but click. Oh, man what might that mean? How old is the impeller, which on this Yanmar involved taking off the water pump to change? What else might go wrong and cost me money while it just sits there? I bought from a guy who had a bout with cancer, so the boat had been sitting for six years. It's a great boat. But things happen. New leaks develop, teak gets worn, birds nest in the mainsail. Head stops working. At this point I just want to sell it and I'm willing to deal because I'm not just thinking about what I have in the boat, I'm also thinking about how much it's going to cost me in the future, including the monthly dock fee. If you've got a guy who doesn't use his boat, you're in a good place. Skip's low ball is a little extreme! But he makes good points. I asked 23,000. (Tartan 28s with new sails and all can go for a good bit more). I took 18,000. That was really my target price. I've been saving money ever since in dock fees, maintenance and the gasoline just to get there. And even if I didn't have any regular expenses, I knew the boat was depreciating constantly due to non-use, weather, rot, algae, etc.
Quote from: MomentSurf on May 03, 2012, 04:10:44 PM
I've been looking at a '86ish 27/2 for a looong time now. Its been on the hard at a local Marina for about 6 years. The boat seems to be in great shape, other than needing a cosmetic cleanup, possibly new sails, and new running rigging. Its kept at a very well known marina and the engine was professionally winterized. I've looked it over pretty well and I don't see any major problems (Hull looks good, bottom paint looks good, standing rigging looks good, ect). The bilge has a bit of oil in it...after looking the engine over pretty well, I think its just from either an oil change spill or a slow drip on the bottom of the pan.
The owner seems like he finally gave up on the hope of putting her in the water and asked me to make an offer! I've been dreaming of this boat for years now. I don't want to insult him with a lowball offer...but at the same time I want to get a good deal and I'm cautious of what I might run into with a boat thats been on the hard for so long.
What do I offer him???????? I want to do this soon, before he changes his mind....
Thanks!
Is this at Great Bay?
Quote from: nicktulloh on May 25, 2014, 11:40:44 PM
Is this at Great Bay?
nope...NY.
Looks like it actually might happen this time. Two problems that concern me...
-The engine hasn't ran in 7 years. (I found a bit of diesel in the oil).
-The boat was plagued with the (from what I read on this forum) common bilge problem. It froze and cracked the pan.
Bought it...After a five year chase! Good price...I hope (bearing no surprises).
After changing all fluids/filters, the engine started with no problem.
CONGRATS!!!!! Hope it woprks out well and NO big surprises!!!!! Great boat!!!
Sprayed shift linkage bracket with liquid wrench today I will try to remove it tomorrow. Engine and trans removed and in my garage.
Will let you know if I got the bolts out. What else were you looking for? Pictures available...but sad to look at !!!
Bruce
S/V Allure
Wow - Great, thanks!
The cover(s) for the ice box. Eventually I would like to rebuild my foward head wall/stbrd side cabinets due to water damage. I'm sure I'll think of more as time goes on! I'll PM you my address...Let me know what I owe you the bracket + shipping.
Thanks again!
Plate is there but I have to go into boat's engine area to look for the clamp. I would suspect that's what broke on your setup. While in the boat I will also look at condition of ice box covers.
Bruce
Actually, the plate didn't break at all. Oddly enough, its mounted so the transmission shift lever points up...which reverses my shift control lever on the helm (push my lever forward, it goes in reverse, pull my lever aft it goes into forward). Very weird. I think the reason this was done was because the bracket would hit the hull if it were mounted down (so the transmission lever also pointed down). I would have to modify the bracket to be able to mount it in the down position. I figured it would nice to have a spare in case my theory don't work out.
Was your bracket mounted 'up' or 'down'?
Thanks again.