I didn't see on posted on the board so thought I'd post
Cheers
Front:
(http://www.buildboats.com/cp23brochurefront)
Back:
(http://www.buildboats.com/cp23brochureback)
Green mentioned his was the brochure boat...I bet that's Wrinkles!!
Isn't Wrinkles a 23/3?
bob23
Good memory Bob. Wrinkles was the poster girl for the 23/3 version. I have a couple of the brochures at home, but here is her pic from the brochure.
(http://i613.photobucket.com/albums/tt211/greene2108/Com-Pac%2023/1dd53374.jpg)
Mike
Ah, yes, she is a 23/3...ooops!!!
Quote from: Greene on May 02, 2012, 08:53:49 AM
Good memory Bob. Wrinkles was the poster girl for the 23/3 version. I have a couple of the brochures at home, but here is her pic from the brochure.
(http://i613.photobucket.com/albums/tt211/greene2108/Com-Pac%2023/1dd53374.jpg)
Mike
That has always been my favorite photo of a Com-Pac 23/3.
I think it is funny that they used a picture that shows the pilot already shoving the tiller to windward to reduce the heel. You would think they would have used one where he was still bravely grabbing all the wind he could. I know one thing, that is as far as my lovely Admiral will let me heel a boat before I hear "That is far enough Mike!"
Mike
At that level of heel my lovely Admiral would be incapable of speech. She would either be diving headfirst into the cabin, or curled up in the fetal position on the cockpit sole. We've still got some work to do in the fear/anxiety department. She is worth it, though. If I ever forget how much she's worth it, she reminds me.
Wes
it is comforting to know that I am not the only one dealing with some anxiety on board. it seems to me that the level of anxiety increases as the square of the degree of heel.. in other words. it does not take a lot of heel to induce considerable anxiety in the cockpit. what i am hoping, however, is that a new year will bring about a change.. with a summer's experience behind us, perhaps my lovely wife will take heeling a little more in stride.. and - the flip side - maybe i will act a little more maturely and correct the angle a little sooner :) jt
There are several approaches to gaining the admirals confidence in the cockpit:
1. Go into an elaborate explanation of initial stability and ultimate stability along with charts, graphs, hull form diagrams, calculations and definitions. If this doesn't gain her confidence it will at least put her to sleep and you can continue your sail.
2. Take her out overpowered and induce a knockdown so she will see the boat has the ability to recover from it. This one is a little tricky, will either be a complete cure or might cause you to spend some time in divorce court.
JT, terms such as the "flip side" should probably not be used on the boat.:)
Flip-side! Fun.
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TG
yup, poor choice of phrase! in the interest of harmony, i guess i will just ease the mainsheet a bit... i love the challenge of sailing solo, but it is a lot more fun with my lovely wife along! jt
I still don't enjoy a major amount of heel, but I'm getting much better. The thing that has helped alleviate most of my fears has simply been to take the tiller. From the beginning Mike and I believed it was necessary, for comfort and safety, for both of us to be able to sail the boat. We split the time at the helm fairly evenly. It has made all the difference in the world for me. I know why the boat acts the way it does and what I can do to control the motion. Once I knew how a sailboat really worked and how easily corrections could be made, I relaxed.
Thank you, Mike, for encouraging (OK - gently nudging) me to step out of my comfort zone and take the tiller. I am a much happier sailor as a result.
Still not a fan of 20 degree or more heeling -
Brenda
I got lucky in that my wife is pretty adventurous, but what finally gave us both total confidence in the boat was pushing it as hard as we could to see what would happen. It was a very gusty day, we put on our life jackets and from the start we took the attitude of "Let's try to flip the boat, it will be fun." I learned to sail on a Sunfish in the Boy Scouts, and if we didn't flip it at least once an hour, we weren't having fun. Of course rolling a CP23 wouldn't be as fun, but it probably wouldn't be the end of the world either. So we went out with too much sail up, and I tried not to feather into the gusts, instead letting them heel us as far as the boat would go. What we found was that the boat only heeled so far before it would either slip sideways or turn up into the wind on its own. We kept the mood light, whooping and hollerin' when the gusts hit, and it did get the adrenaline going, but there is now no fear.
When I take inexperienced people out for day sails, I tell them it is physically impossible to flip the boat over, even though it might feel like it is about to roll. It helps their anxiety some, but I don't think anyone believes it in their gut. The only way to believe it is to try and flip it and find that it can't be done. (Well, it can happen, but it would likely take a combination of breaking waves and wind to do it to a 23).
While I always thought that the brochures photo showed slight excessive heel, I've always like the shot. Two happy sailers aboard a fine 23!
I don't have to worry about the Admirals concern for heel- she simply doesn't sail with me! I enjoy the 23's tendency to heel. They feel just about right with 10-15 degrees, don't you think?
20 is too much and the boats performance suffers as well as being a bit uncomfortable.
I suppose one could capsize when hit by a squall and if the cockpit were to fill with water due to being pooped, things could go from bad to worse pretty quick. After being hit by a squally-type gust, I had the mast over about 45 degrees once and it was not fun. But she assured me all was well with her tendency to round up and we stayed dry. It's nice to know that between the 45% ballast and her plain old seaworthy design, it's a safe boat.
Love JT's "flip side". Sounds like a good boat name.
bob23
I love my 23 for her great stability in high winds. It is really up to the helmsman as to the degree of heel, isn't it? Has anyone ever heard of a 23 capsizing?
BobL
The most I have ever been able to heal is to have water come over the side and fill the cockpit. I had to work hard and keep the boat from rouunding up to do this. I would have to say without a large wave, the chance of capsizing a 23 would be very small.
The insert image thing is way above my pay grade.
BobK
(http://i778.photobucket.com/albums/yy62/bobknapp47/IMG_5039_7.jpg) (http://s778.photobucket.com/albums/yy62/bobknapp47/?action=view¤t=IMG_5039_7.jpg)
Looks like you were having fun. That is a really pretty sail in the pictures. We are jealous as we didn't get a pretty genny with Wrinkles. "Honey, where is the checkbook?"
Mike
HideAway seems to like the 20 - 25 degree heel. It feels very stable and gets a good turn of speed. Most of the time we find it better to ride out a gust giving the boat it s lead. If you let the main out fast the boat stalls and luffs - usually taking a different heading - to us that is more stressful. Keep in mind though that we have an old blown out main sail with multiple patches. If you have new sails like Bob23 you are likely over powered at the same degree of heeling and will already be reefed.
If you have been on a long cruise somewhere caught in rough weather with safe harbor hours away you ll be more focused on keeping the boat sailing. Those scary 25 degree gusts that held you over for a few seconds the beginning of your cruise become normal when you have to do it for hours - you will find yourself wanting to keep the heel constant when you are taking spray half way up the reefed main- the jib tied to a stanchion after its rescue from the sea - your crew half out the main hatch during that desperate event has returned to the cockpit in time for another dousing putting the hatch boards in place. You become thankful for those tall coamings and that you remembered to dog down the ports. Both of us can successfully sail the boat in these conditions - It is essential that both you and your crew can handle the boat because it is too much of a job for one person over a long period of time.
This is the short story of why we cancelled our spring cruise to Caladesi Island about 20 miles north of our home port and decided instead to try out our new tent. Took the ferry over for a day trip yesterday -- when you look up heaven in the dictionary Caladesi Island State Park is mentioned - Next year we ll be sailing those waters I m sure - we are just not physically up to it this time
As my mother-in-law lives in Clearwater, I am very familiar with Caladesi Island and Honeymoon Island. I rent the Windriders at Sail Honeymoon when we visit and sail the grassbeds on the inland side of the island. I can't wait to haul my CP19 down there and spend a week just sailing the bay.
We hiked the the entire trail on Caladesi - all the way to the harp tree then out on to the beach on the southern part of the island- It s hard to believe 800,000 people live just across the sound -- and that a family homesteaded on what was then known as Picnic Island in the 1800s - Their daughter rowing across St Joseph Sound to school in Dunedin every day after doing chores. They sold their produce in Tampa - sailing on a boat they built. Back then there was no development at all along the coast. Old timers in Gulfport tell about how Tampa bay - not Boca Ciega Bay came up to what is now 22nd ave so. If you know south Pinellas at all that is an unbelievable statement.
We have been encamped on the lower Suwannee River these last few days just north of Cedar Key reluctantly returning this evening before the storms. If you drive far enough north on Us 19 you will find towns with names and roads with no traffic - It was wonderful to be out of the city.
I live in palm harbor and while there is still traffic, the sailing on my 19 is great. Last weekend for the super moon (and my birthday) my wife and I spent an over nighter at 3 rooker bar and another at anclote key. It gets a little skinny at times but a 19 and a 23 would do great north of the honeymoon island drawbridge!
Billy - that s where we had planned to sail this time - staying at the marina on Caladesi Island State Park. It s a full day sail from Gulfport. In times past we usually anchored just across from the Dunedin marina the first night. Health issues put us in a tent in the forest rather than risk being at sea. There s always next year though-- That area has always been our favorite. Matt