My wife and kids knew I was looking into the IPad as a simple chart plotter, so for my birthday Monday they gave me an IPad2. My intentions are to use it for inland and occasional coastal cruising. I chose INavX and a couple of Navionics chart sets to install for my intended sailing areas.
Anyone else playing around with this setup?
Mike
Mike - haven't tried mine as a chart plotter yet, but check out the Radarscope and Windfinder Pro apps. I use both of them frequently; WFP to find out what Saturday's wind will be like on my local lake, and Radarscope to track rain and thunderstorms in the vicinity. Highly recommended. Very interested in your experience with inavx, please keep us posted. For travel in my car I have tried several (non-marine) iPad GPS apps such as Telenav, and found they do not equal the performance of a dedicated GPS such as Garmin.
- Wes
The Radarscope looks promising, so I'll probably add that to my collection. To get local wind info I usually go to windfinder.com which gives the same basic info as Windfinder Pro.
I did purchase iNavX and a couple sets of Navionics charts. I posted a few screenshots on our new blog - Wrinkles in Our Sails.
The link is below if you are interested. I already have a Garmin 176C unit, but with my 50 plus year old eyes the screen was starting to look a bit too small. I really love the full screen you get with the iPad and the touchscreen sure makes it easy to search the charts.
Mike
Happy B-Day, Mike! Sounds pretty cool.
I'm using the GPSNavX software on a Macbook Air. Just learning to use it--hope to venture to big water next year (and years to come) so it will come in handy.
It has full chartplotter functionality as well, looks as featured as the $4K units from Garmin (to the untrained eye anyway).
Good luck with it...a lot cheaper than a full chartplotter to say the least.
One of the bit challenges for me has been protecting the iPad in the wet environment. Has anyone found a truly waterproof cover that doesn't degrade the video quality or the touch sensitivity?
Also, running the GPS for an extended period really sucks down the battery. A powered USB port in the cockpit may become a priority project soon.
Wes
The 19 seems to be a pretty dry boat, but some protection will probably be in order. I have seen several swing mounts which move the GPS (or in our case the iPad) from the inside to the companionway opening. I think we'll be fabricating something along these lines. I purchased a 12 volt car charger for the iPad, so power shouldn't be a problem on board. We use very little juice aboard Miss B's Haven and we put in a pretty good size gel cell battery. I'll be interested to hear what products others have used for water protection.
Mike
Got this email from JSI today. Not an endorsement, don't have one, just passing on the info
http://www.newjsi.com/detail.aspx?ID=2942
I added the Windfinder Pro and Radarscope to the iPad. The WFP is a neatly organized app that gives you the wind direction, wind speed, pressure and cloud cover. The Radarscope is going to be a very handy and informative device, but only after I study up a bit on it's use. You can operate it very easily, but interpreting the info properly will take some time.
Any other recommendations?
Mike
Wow, all these toys are good but way over my head. I have no desire to learn how to use these devices. 'Vices' that's just what these things are and more power to you younger and smarter guys...I asked my self am I here to sail on the water or stare into a 'scope'? What good is it and do I need to expell so much brain power to enjoy my boat?
Kind of that 'String' mentality. You know, if it's wet it's raining. If it's moving, it's windy, If it's dry, it's sunny. If I can't see it, it's dark or real foggy.
I do have a Ray Marine Chart Plotter 435i that I flip on once in a while for a 'fix' when no land can be seen out in the middle of Lake Michigan. Just for poops and grins.
LOL skip.
Skip, you will happy to know that celestial navigation with a good ol' sextant is one of Brenda's next projects. She is going to work on that while I muddle my way towards a captain's license. Do we need electronics and classes to enjoy sailing? No, we need them because of our love for sailing and a desire to know as much as possible about it.
We won't be "staring at a scope", we will be using the tools and knowledge available to us to ensure our safety wherever we may adventure.
Fair winds.
Mike
That is a popular course in our United States Power and Sail Squadron.
I've done a sun shot and missed my position by about a half a continent!
What fun. All those numbers could kill an insurance actuary, to be sure.
I dropped out of that class. Couldn't handle it.
http://www.facebook.com/pages/door-county-sail-power-squadron/193389304031378
Bon Chance. skip.
Hey Skip - although I work in technology and do love my ipad, I generally agree with you about keeping gadgets out of the cockpit. I go sailing to experience the wind, the water, and the critters - not to look at a screen. But because I'm a trailer sailor and my home lake is 45 minutes away, going sailing is a five or six hour commitment. The iPad apps like Windfinder and Radarscope are useful at home and in the car to help decide whether it's a sailing day or a varnishing day. Once I leave the dock the gadgets stay in a dry bag below. My interest in the GPS apps is because I hope to try some coastal sailing in the spring, where I might actually lose sight of land once in a while.
Wes
The problem we have with the technology is we forget how much we depend on it. On our Turkey Cruise over Thanksgiving our 17 year old GPS fried. We were Leaving the backside of Indian Key near some very shallow water and decided we didn t NEED to take bearings off the markers because we could clearly see them in the distance on a bright sunny day. All fine and good except we were looking at the wrong marker. the only thing that saved us from great embarrassment was our newly installed depth finder and a quick tack. So one technology failed us - The other saved us.
What frightened us was how stupid we were to just use line of sight navigation instead of taking a few minutes to plot a course from one marker to the other. Matt
"One of the bit challenges for me has been protecting the iPad in the wet environment. Has anyone found a truly waterproof cover that doesn't degrade the video quality or the touch sensitivity?"
They aren't out yet but check out Lifeproof's iPad case.
http://www.lifeproof.com/lifeproof-store/apple-cases/ipad
I use one of their cases on my iPhone and it is nice. I haven't gone swimming with it but did test it to be waterproof submerged in the sink.
Shawn
BTW... for anyone considering getting an iPad for navigation be sure you buy one of the cellular versions. The wifi only model does not have GPS in it.
Shawn
Yup, you are right. The basic iPad will try to locate you using the local wifi signals that it is seeing, but it is hit and miss at best. I wanted one without the GPS for two reasons. First it is cheaper to buy one without GPS and add-on a Bluetooth GPS. Secondly, the reviews for the Bluetooth GPS performance were better than the built in ones. You can locate the Bluetooth unit outside the cabin and get a less obstructed view of the sky. I posted a couple pics of the one I purchased on our blog a couple of days ago. Take a look if you are interested. The Bluetooth unit placed us about 5' or less from where we were sitting in our living room when we first booted it up.
Mike
Mike,
"The basic iPad will try to locate you using the local wifi signals that it is seeing, but it is hit and miss at best."
And I believe that is only when you are on a wifi network to begin with so that it can try and cross reference. Out in a boat without a data network I assume that functionality is useless.
Glad to hear the Bluetooth unit is working for you. iNavX is a nice program, it can do a lot.
Shawn
Hey:
I am a year or so behind on topics that are becoming pertinent to me at the present time. Are there any more current thoughts on this thread?
I am looking at the Raymarine A series chartplotter with a 5.7 inch screen. I do not like the price at around $850 including cables and mount or the. So I was thinking about an iPad either loose in the cockpit or swing mounted in the hatchway.
I currently have a new Raymarine P70, ACU100, EV1, coupled to a Mk2 4000 wheel drive. It was a priority to get the autohelm working so I could go solo. The A series would integrate nicely with this system. BTW I have an extra new Mk2 4000 wheel drive if anyone is interested.
I was going to sail from New Bern to Oriental this past Wednesday, wound up motoring in pretty thick fog. Navigated with a chart, compass, and a Garmin Nuvi 500 from our truck. I have been too cheap to buy charts for the Nuvi so I kept the boat in the large black area, which was pretty accurate on a large scale. The experience moved the chartplotter up on my priority list.
The sail back on Tuesday was great.
I appreciate your comments and guidance.
regards charlie
We have iSailGPS(App) on our IPad and it works like a charm with the built-in gps. I believe some tablets & phones without gps use cell towers for location. Don't think WiFi networks would provde reliable location (unless you are logged on).
I've found INAVX to be a good application for the iPad. My problem is with the iPad display itself. In the sunshine (even under the Bimini) the display just blanks out. Has anyone had better luck with the newer iPad versions? I have the iPad 2 and am considering upgrading to the new Air version.
Mike
Hi
I take paper charts and compass, an old reliable gps (doesn't have topo but gives you coordinates) and the iPhone with the navionics app. The navionics app works great. Also have an anchor alarm app.
Jason
Many of you may have seen this article posted on duckworks... " The second most dangerous thing aboard" http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/13/howto/charts/index.htm#.UqSaro2SIng
it generated lots of discussion on the duckworks forum.. the fellow writing the article is from Active Captain. ( there may be a bit of a conflict of interest) His assertion is that the most dangerous thing aboard is a fixed schedule. I tend to agree that allowing decisions to be made on a pre-arranged schedule rather than on current conditions poses significant danger for those of us in small boats. the point of the article, however, is that paper charts are the second most dangerous thing aboard. Clearly , this guy likes electronics!
But, after my trip this summer aboard Adagio, single handed.. I have to wonder about the value of having paper charts aboard.. there really is no nav station on a compac 23 - i had them on one of the settee berths, but, as the only one aboard, there was no way that i could go below and check them out with spray coming into the cockpit every 12 - 15 seconds.. i had the hatch and companion way closed up.. the one chart that did make some sense was a plastic coated one that I have of Barnegat bay, but there was no navigating in the true sense of drawing lines on the charts and following a course.. I basically needed to know what direction to look in order to spot the next day mark.
I have a hand held gps which was probably the most useful in that it is easy to handle, waterproof, and relatively reliable. So I am wondering about coastal piloting in a small boat, single handed.. would a hand held chart plotter be the best device to have on board? The screens are incredibly small, but it beats having a swingout plotter in the cabin which would necessitate having the hatch and hatchboards out of the way... not very practical in any kind of weather on a cp 23.. I am also not too interested in adding more stuff that will take up room in the cabin, and which will add a drain to the battery.. ( and my wallet) my goal is to sail as simply as possible.
does anyone have experience with a hand held chart plotter? jt
I think paper charts are a must. JT- maybe you need one of these:
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt260/Bob23_photo/Koinonia%20interior/charttableandnavigator-2.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/Bob23_photo/media/Koinonia%20interior/charttableandnavigator-2.jpg.html)
B23
hi,
As has been mentioned above, the small screen on handheld devices is a drawback, as is relying on anything electronic. We took paper charts and compass to insure against over-reliance on electronics on our trip around Washington and Rock Islands this summer (a beautiful area, but one with cold water, full of rocky lee shores and unpredictable wind and chop, thus a place to take safety very seriously). That said, for navigation we plotted our strategy on the chart, but used the iphone with the US Navionics App as our "chartplotter" it worked perfect for us in the CP16 and could be quickly thrown in a ziplock when the spray came up, and in those cases we used the compass to ensure we stayed on course. So overall, for my needs now, I will keep using the iphone/navionics app. We will be headed up around Poverty and Summer Islands this summer. I think that the electronics added to our safety overall, as do other electronics such as VHF radios and nav lights; the key is to maintain the heck out of gear. For that matter, as with electronics, mechanical gear will fail if not maintained.
For safety I would agree that following a pre-set schedule, or put another way: forcing yourself to stick with a preset schedule when faced with bad or uncooperative weather, is one of the more dangerous courses out there to chart!
Jason
Thank you for all the comments:
I do not have an IPhone, I use a KMart trac phone.
Back to the IPad: Does the IPad gps functionality depend on WiFi or telecommunications connectivity? OR, does it work just like a handheld gps and receive data directly from the satellites? (This is probably a question for Apple.)
Great point on the IPad legibility in sunlight.
I too require waterproof or water proofed gear that can be used in the cockpit and sailing solo.
Again thanks. regards charlie
Deisher,
Here's the scoop on the iPad2 and navigation functions.
-They support Wi-Fi. You have to be within range of a Wi-Fi access point, and on the water this is impossible with today's technology.
In your living room with a wireless access point in your house, sure they work great.
-They may or may not support 3G and 4G, depending on which iPad model you buy. If you go to Verizon or AT&T and buy an iPad with cellular data (3G/4G) capabilities, you'll pay extra every month for that capability, and any GPS app that has to talk to the wireless towers will only work when you're within range of the tower. It determines your location by triangulating you between several towers.
This means if there is a lot of horizon around you, or the distance between towers is too large, or obstructions prevent the signal from reaching you, it will not be able to triangulate. Meaning, it can be inaccurate, even when you think "It should be picking me up, I'm in the middle of a suburb". My wife has a non-3G/4G iPad, but I have one with cellular that work pays for. Mine works fine most of the time on our small lake near a big suburb outside a large city. But occasionally it is not accurate. It will be far less accurate as you get out of range of the newer 3g/4g towers. I would absolutely not trust it for navigation on a big lake, mountainous region, dense city, remote or coastal areas.
-GPS. Ipads don't have built in GPS capability. But you can use a Bluetooth enabled wireless receiver to "talk" to the iPad and tell it coordinates. The nav apps will see the GPS automatically and use it. This is by far the best way to go for accuracy and a reliable way to update coordinates in more conditions (unlike using 3G/4G, which won't always work at all, and sometimes the wrong location). Of course you have to power or recharge the receiver too.
Something like this should work well for you. Shop around and do some research on them.
http://www.mypilotstore.com/mypilotstore/sep/8364 (http://www.mypilotstore.com/mypilotstore/sep/8364)
You're going to need a way to keep it charged while sailing if out for more than a few hours (tough to say for sure how many).
Waterproofing..there are clear waterproof cases available. I don't know what type of water you sail in, but I would think one on a swivel just inside the cabin, in the companionway opening, would be OK. You'll need some way to keep it from sliding around if you use it in the cockpit. One unexpected wind gust will send these slippery iPads flying. They are tough but not indestructible.
Thanks Salty, all the scoop needed and great URL for reference.
regards charlie
Despite all the high tech gps stuff, there is no reason to go to sea without a REAL chart. :o Every boat should have a chart of their local cruising waters aboard!
We absolutely agree. The electronic version is a tool - the paper charts are safety devices. As we study navigation we alternate solving the workbooks questions on the iPad and the paper charts. While sailing we have both paper charts and an electronic device out at the same time. This way we will be comfortable with using both methods.
Mike and B
To me, Salty's great synopsis is enough for me to keep my SH 180i GPS working and properly charted.
I agree that you should always acquire paper charts for the areas that you sail. I've found, that on the Gulf, many of the marinas have give away copies of NOAA charts that can be used and discarded when you return from the area. However, if I could only have one or the other, I would have the GPS chartplotter. A paper chart is great for the big picture, but there is no quick way for you to know exactly where YOU are on that chart and that is essential. In any conditions where visibility of navigation markers is limited such as fog or storms, or even night when the markers become obscured or confused by traffic, the paper chart becomes of limited value. Additionally if you are sailing in shoal waters, knowing exactly where you are in relation to the shoals is essential. Often when your depth finder gives you a clue, it is too late. I've had experience ranging from RDF/ADF through LORAN and on to GPS, and the GPS chartplotter is essential not necessarily for ocean crossings where celestial can be used, but for coastal access. The debate could go on all day about the value of paper charts, but I've made enough blind approaches to know that GPS is not just a tool but an essential instrument, much like instruments used by pilots in IFR conditions. Just my opinion but based on nearly 50 years of sailing. Back at the beginning of that span, long before GPS, I've gotten to lay off enough approaches during fogs or storms to be a big believer in the absolute value of the technology, and I wouldn't rely on anything that might be occasionally not usable, such as a tablet or a paper chart.
Navimatics Charts and Guides is a great app for planning trips. With the Active Captain overlay, there is a lot of information about marinas, restaurants, ramps and things to see.
This may be too late to be of help to anyone but, if any interest remains, I bought an iPad4 before taking our CP27/2 up the coast, Virginia to Maine. With iNavx (and paper charts, too), it worked well the entire trip. In fair weather, it mounts on a bracket under the dodger. There's a vinyl cover to keep spray off, too. If left on all the time, it would eat up the iPad battery. But I just used it to confirm location, as needed. For that it was invaluable and did a great job! The battery stayed charged off the alternator using a 12v "car charger" cable.
Bottom-line: worked great for me on that trip and back home cruising the Chesapeake! As mentioned above, make sure you get the version with the built-in GPS; in my experience, no Wi-Fi or cell service needed, works just like any other GPS. You only need Wi-Fi or cell for email or internet.
Fair winds!
That is good to hear. I just upgraded to 128 gig Gen 4 in hopes the display will work better in sunlight and to allow me to keep more charts loaded at one time. We hope to use the iPad as a backup to our paper charts and a dedicated chart plotter.
Mike
Just a follow-up to this post.
Apple has changed the iPads a bit from the version 2's. The cellular versions now are including a true GPS chip, so location accuracy is much improved, and reliability in rural areas shouldn't be an issue. I think the version 3's had this too, but not 100% sure. The Wi-Fi only versions still do not have GPS chips, but you can still use a Bluetooth GPS receiver, or a direct GPS plug in to the Lightning Port.
I'm going to try the plug-in version from Bad Elf on a new Ipad Mini so the Bluetooth channel is clear to stream music to a small Bluetooth speaker set.
http://bad-elf.com/
They have a Bluetooth version that can pair simultaneously with multiple devices too. I figured I didn't need that, and since it has an integrated rechargeable battery--and much more $$$, it will need charged and will eventually fail. So the direct plug in is the way to go, for me.
I'm going to copy the mount setup by Brackish, I think. Swiveling ram mount bolted to the inside bulkhead with enough swivel arm to pivot the unit in plain site in the companionway. This will keep the cockpit free to mounts and gives a nice spot near a 12V outlet to charge batteries.
This is all really just practice and fun for me. Our lake is small enough that you don't need navigation equipment, but its fun to take fixes and get to know more about the subject. Some day I will appreciate the knowledge gained.
I also like to hike and camp in the wilderness of WV. The area I go into is full or iron deposits and it DOES throw off my compass making compass/map navigation a little iffy. My handheld GPS works OK, but is a bit primitive, and will get me back to camp but lacks topo maps. In mountainous regions like WV, knowing the topo can really help avoid cliffs and steep terrain.
I use (and have for years) use "Coastal Explorer" from "Rose Point" on my laptop. ALL charts are FREE ad the software is VERY reasonable. I have a plug in GPS that came with MS Maps and Trips (for roads). I can plug the laptop into 12 V or a battery booster pack I have - works wonderful!!