Well, i done did it...ordered up a nylon 1.5oz 170% free-flying drifter for Island Time from Dirk at National Sail. Should be here in a week or so.
The luff will be a pre-stretched rope that will emulate a forestay. With a free flying luff, we will not have to remove the 110 or 140 from the roller furled on days with very light air.
The head will be attached on a third halyard run through a block off a bail near the top of the mast. The existing spinnaker hoop would not work, it's too far forward. The tack will attach via a snap snackle to an eye run through the bowsprit, backed up by a chainplate bolted to the steel horizontal portion of the underside of the bowsprit. The sail will be AFT of the furled headsail about 8" for easy talking-thus why the spinnaker loop location will not work.
The cut of the sail will be similar to a genoa, not like a spinnaker for better pointing upwind and easier handling. I went ahead and bought a second set of blocks that will set roughly near the aft edge of the existing genoa tracks. No de-rigging of the furled headsail required (just loosen the sheets so they will lay on the deck for easy tacking). Hope they work OK.
Should be great for light air and the frequent tacking I'm forced to do on a small lake! Pictures to come but we'll have to wait 'till May to try it out. Yes, they will be colorful and should allow for more enjoyable night sailing due to frequent still air after dark, as well as those dog days with no wind.
For sailing single handed in a small lake, this seems a bit easier to deal with than a full on spinnaker. Time will tell!
Does anyone else fly a drifter? Shawn, you use one on your 23...do you like it??
I find my 150 gets caught up on the mast sometimes while tacking.
Always good to have a crew forward to walk the genny around the mast for a smooth tack!
Salty,
Good luck with the drifter. Mine took so long to be delivered I ended up never having the right conditions to fly it yet. I have no doubt it would make a big difference on light wind days.
Shawn
Billy--Yep, the sheets on my 140 sometimes get caught too. Mostly on a cheek block I put on there for a single line jiffy reefing system.I found it was too hard to use, so I use the traditional jiffy reefing now. So I'll remove the blocks. I never had to walk around the sheet or sail though. I'm hopeful that the nylon sail will be a less effort to tack..thin material and not stiff.
Shawn-I recall reading your Kelly Hanson fiasco. Sorry to hear that! I have confidence that National will pull through for me. I don't really need it until May but wanted to get it taken care of early.
Salty,
Did you get your drifter yet?
If you look at my avatar, you'll see my asym being used as a drifter. It's a 3/4 oz asym from a Catalina 22. I have flown it once wing on wing with my 150 Hank on Genny on a four-mile run. Too much trouble for everyday, but I sure scared the scuppers off the Racers out there on the lake with all that canvas up. I guess they never saw a full out racing Com-Pac before. Was making hull speed way in only 8 knot winds.
Anyway, I attach temporary blocks to my aft cleats for the sheets, but the sail is so big for my boat I should probably rig stern sprits to control the sheet angle. Hmmmm, winter project?
TG
Sure did. Looks like it should--but will have to wait a few months to try it out.
Hope that the drifter will be fairly easy to handle and tack compared to a spinnaker (the lake is fairly narrow). We shall see.
What are you using for spin sheets?
Funny you mention a spinnaker Tim, i've been wanting a spin for a while now and low and behold.....yesterday a friend gave me a symmetrical from his old 18 footer. I have a feeling it might be too small but we'll just have to wait and see. I have a wisker pole I think I can convert into a spin pole and I am going to try and use the jib cars in the aft position for the sheets and forward for the guys. I'm not gonna go get all new lines for a guy and a sheet so I will try and use the lazy sheet as the working guy. I may get some blocks to attach to the aft cleats if I need to, and snatch blocks for the guy.
That is unless anyone has a better idea. Why couldn't he have givin me a Asym?
Hey, a free spinnaker is a free spinnaker! I bet you can make it work. If not, maybe a local loft can cheaply recut/enlargen it into an asym or reacher ?
Hey Salty!
The sail came with 3/8" sheets but they were too heavy for the lake I sail on. the wind isn't the same here as Tampa Bay, where the cat 22 was sailed - I went to 5/16 dia. sheets that don't dip too low drag the sail to the water when the wind falls off.
I do have to walk the sail through a tack sailing on the wind - tricky when single handing, and a pleasure when my Grandson is at the tiller. He thinks "Cappy" floats across the water.
TG
Quote from: Billy on December 14, 2011, 12:33:09 AM
Funny you mention a spinnaker Tim, i've been wanting a spin for a while now and low and behold.....yesterday a friend gave me a symmetrical from his old 18 footer. I have a feeling it might be too small but we'll just have to wait and see. I have a wisker pole I think I can convert into a spin pole and I am going to try and use the jib cars in the aft position for the sheets and forward for the guys. I'm not gonna go get all new lines for a guy and a sheet so I will try and use the lazy sheet as the working guy. I may get some blocks to attach to the aft cleats if I need to, and snatch blocks for the guy.
That is unless anyone has a better idea. Why couldn't he have givin me a Asym?
Go to your REI store (or online) and get a pair of Bluewater Titan Spectra climbing runners, 6" size, about $3.50 each. Attach your blocks to the runners, push the runners through the eye on your cleat, then around each horn (assuming you have cleats with a center eye). It is a great, quick way to attach a block to the cleat. They are very light and strong and you can still use your cleat for other things if need be without taking the block off.
Brackish--that's an excellent idea. Thanks for sharing.
If my genny leads don't work, that's the way I'll go as well (and sell the second set of genny leads).
Salty,
My Sun Cat performed poorly in light air due primarily to an intentionally underpowered Mainsail by design. Made a small Drifter from JoAnn Fabrics Rip Stop Orange Nylon which I also set "flying" in the tiny foretriangle of my Sun Cat.. The difference in performance that 38 sq ft of Nylon made in light to moderate air was dramatic to say the least. Went so far as to design and fabricate a Nylon Light air Mainsail, also set "flying" above the stowed Main on the boom, to further enhance light air performance. It was a challenge considering that it was a four sided gaff headed mainsail! Again, dramatic difference, especially in very light air.
Have recently designed, fabricated, and installed a Bowsprit which extends 4 ft beyond the stem along with Bobstay, Whisker stays, additional shrouds port and starboard and a second quick release forestay which goes all the way to the Masthead. Now I have a platform on which to experiment and play with various headsails and an even larger Drifter.
Would like to direct your attention to an article in Issue 70, Jan-Feb 2010 of "Good Old Boat" Magazine entitled "The Case for the light air mainsail" by Ed Zacko.
I echo Ed's experience that "In light air, Nylon is King"!
A few photos follow to illustrate my messing about in boats.
capt_nemo
(http://i1125.photobucket.com/albums/l594/CPYOA/com-pac%20sun%20cat%20pics/jib-7.jpg)
(http://i1125.photobucket.com/albums/l594/CPYOA/com-pac%20sun%20cat%20pics/IMG_0129.jpg)
(http://i1125.photobucket.com/albums/l594/CPYOA/Com-Pac%20Sun%20Cat%20Mods/IMG_0113.jpg)
Thanks, Captn...I've admired your boat for awhile now...very nicely done indeed!
Tried out the drifter this season, twice. The 170% size is huge but does keep the boat moving in light conditions. The wind even picked up to 8 or 9 and she just drove ahead with as much, or less heal then the 140%. I'm impressed!!! The drifter doesn't point quite as high, but did notice when we adjusted the luff that influenced pointing. So next time I'll play with it using a GPS.
I ended up installing a mast hound from Boatworks near the top of the mast, but low enough for furler swivel clearance, for the halyard. The jib halyard stays atop the furled headsail while the drifter has a flying luff, so only connected at the corners. The halyard goes through a mast cheek block, mounted about boom height, then cleated off just below on the mast. So I pull and cleat off the halyard while standing in the companion way.
The tack is connected to a snap shackle pinned to chainplates which are bolted on either side of the bowsprit. Seems strong, I gave the sail a workout and no bending at all. This gives the right offset from the furler/headsail for better airflow.
Sheets go back to rear genoa tracks, but I need to put blocks off the aft cleats for better sheeting angle.
Over all it's not too difficult to get setup..we're glad we now can still move and maintain control in light winds, and are glad it didn't get hairy at all when winds picked up!
Can hardly see snap shackle above anchor from the side. Speaking of which, I changed from coated to uncoated chain (18 ft). Cleans up the deck a bit and stows cleanly.
(http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z290/yamaholic_mcarp/Island%20Time/photobucket-7181-1337549806405.jpg)
I'll trim the mounting bolts for the chainplates at some point. This setup seems pretty strong, time will tell if things bend. The red line is for the luff feeder for the furler.
(http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z290/yamaholic_mcarp/Island%20Time/photobucket-4900-1337549896388.jpg)
It sets OK but needs the foot should be tighter. Aft blocks should help. It is a deck sweeper for sure. To the left you can see the furled up genoa.
(http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z290/yamaholic_mcarp/Island%20Time/photobucket-3276-1337549376825.jpg)
Salty19,
Way to go! Glad to see that you are enjoying your new Drifter. Isn't it nice to move reasonably well in light air when other sailors are under "bare poles" with iron genny in gear. Unless your cloth is quite light, there should be no damage to the sail up to around 10 Knots of air or so.
In light air, Nylon is King!
capt_nemo
Hi Capt Nemo,
It sure is nice! I was surprised that I was able to move and maintain steerage with almost no wind. Granted we were only moving 1.5-1.9 knots in 3 or 4 mph of wind, but that's better than nothing. n those conditions with a genoa we would have been bobbing like a cork.
And even more surprised that the extra sail area didn't overwhelm the helm when the winds did pick up later in the day. Instead of heeling way over, it just went faster! We hit 5.8 knots several times, which is pretty darn close to hull speed. That is speed over ground, and with a slight current so speed over water was probably 1/2 knot less or so.
Good point about using it until about 10 mph. It's a 1.5oz nylon variety so probably OK until that point, then at risk of tearing after that.
Frankly this sail is going to let me sail, and not sit there and be flying critter food, in July and August when the winds are normally very light.
Also I think it will make a great night sail as winds die around here right around 7-8pm.
Salty19,
Next thing you might want to try, if the spirit ever moves 'ya, is making a Light Air Nylon Mainsail. Great article by Ed Zacko, The case for the light-air mainsail, in the Good Old Boat magazine Jan/Feb 2010 Issue. Yours would be easy to make since it's triangular. Mine was a challenge since it is a 4 sided gaff rig main'sl. They are set "flying" above the main stowed on the boom and use the boom (with topping lift) and mainsheet for control.
Here is a photo of mine.
(http://i1125.photobucket.com/albums/l594/CPYOA/com-pac%20sun%20cat%20pics/IMG_0129.jpg)
And one with the original little Orange Nylon Drifter.
(http://i1125.photobucket.com/albums/l594/CPYOA/com-pac%20sun%20cat%20pics/IMG_00151280x960.jpg)
Since then I've added a 4' Bowsprit and made a really large masthead Drifter from orange Polytarp which looks like this.
(http://i1125.photobucket.com/albums/l594/CPYOA/Sun%20Cat%20Headsails/IMG_0177.jpg)
Sure is nice to move a sailboat in really light air!
Salty19
I think your boat is one I almost bought in MN., it is a very nice boat. Let me know if you want to sell?
Builder-Indeed, Island Time first lived in MN as Renovo, bought from a very nice couple who barely used her.
Had her since Nov 2009.
She'll be for sale someday, not on the radar screen for the next several years. Unless you have a real nice Flicka to trade :)
I see you are looking for an XL. There were 3 or 4 for sale over the last 2-3 years. One had the centerboard. You'll find one, but it may take some time.
Oh, and I saw one that was advertised as an XL, but the year didn't match up, so make sure the hull # is high..I don't recall where they start but I think around hull 560ish (not sure about that)..it's documented somewhere around here.
I have found a nice 27 for you to check out in Madison WI. go to the Boat House of Madison web site, the boat is to big for me but you might want to check it out.
Too big for me as well. My tow vehicle thinks so too :)
Salty, If you get this, please give me a call sometime. I will be going for dock space at Hoover this spring, I talked to the City, I know what I have to do, but I am wondering how the water level has been of late, in the summer. Just purchased my C-19 / 1 from Marblehead this Dec., think I mentioned it once here. I am assuming that you are out of Red Bank, it may take me a few seasons to get there. Will see.
Thanks,
Bill Nixon 937 271 1859
Columbus Native
I have a question for you guys about a drifter.
I have a CP 19 that is in the middle of a refirb. I couldn't stand it, I bought a CP 23 and will drive to Oklahoma in about a month to get it.
The 23 is a cutter rig that has the normal hank-on jib for the staysail and a furler on the 3ft bowsprit.
Could I rig a hank-on drifter for the staysail to be used in light air and use the furler when the wind picks up (dropping the drifter)?
What are the pros and cons of that?
I just never had a cutter rig before and want to explore using it...
-Shawn F
lochinvar,
Congratulations on your, new to you, 23!
Your options with a cutter rig are many (limited only by your imagination). I've owned and sailed 32' and 35' cutter rigged sailboats for many years and really enjoyed them. There was a time when I thought ALL Sailboats should have a (flexible) Double Headsail Rig.
YES, you can rig a hanked-on light air Drifter on the stay'sl stay (think NYLON). BUT... your stay'sl stay doesn't go all the way to the masthead, SO... you are limited in the amount of sail area you can present to those light elusive airs. Plus, the foretriangle area would be small, making tacking somewhat cumbersome.
Consider these alternatives:
First, a large NYLON Drifter set "Flying" with tack secured by pennant under forward furler and luff hoisted to masthead. (Add a sock if you think it's necessary.) Then, to open the foretriangle and make tacking the "light wind wonder" a piece of cake, rig the stay'sl stay with a quick release lever (not too expensive) to disconnect it and secure it out of the way, lashed to mast or shroud. By the way, this would also make tacking that furled jib/genoa so much easier also. The cutter rig is quite versatile but that staysail is not needed/used all the time and the flexibility gained by a quick release stay'sl stay is well worth it. Broad Reaching and Running the staysail gets in the way and prevents a good free flow of air to whatever headsail is forward. But it's great on a Beam Reach, to Windward and when shortening sail to balance the rig in a blow!
Second, same large Drifter HANKED - ON to an ADDITIONAL quick release masthead forestay that is again attached under the forward furler. ADVANTAGE - better control of sail hoisting and lowering. Remove quick release stay'sl stay as described above to open foretriangle area.
Hope this helps to provide food for thought.
capt_nemo
(http://i1125.photobucket.com/albums/l594/CPYOA/Sun%20Cat%20Roller%20Furler/13581058041.jpg)
I chose the flying drifter to avoid having to swap out sails on the furler each time I wanted to use it, and it is pretty quick to rig and deploy without hanks or messing with another forestay. Therefore it's easier to use, and more likely to be used, safer to deploy and easier to takedown should the need arise. If I had the choice to do it again, I would do nothing differently.
This pic was taken before I had the aft blocks set up in the right spot. The foot was too loose in the pic, fixed by correct sheet angle.
(http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z290/yamaholic_mcarp/Island%20Time/photobucket-27556-1346593224597.jpg)
Salty19, take an angle grinder and loosen the bow roller till it spins and grind a groove down the center of the roller for the anchor to ride in when stowed.
skip.
A few pics of the drifter in action.
(http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z290/yamaholic_mcarp/Island%20Time/CP19Drifter-zoom_zps8ff8aff2.jpg)
(http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z290/yamaholic_mcarp/Island%20Time/CP19Drifter-zoom2_zps7b34436e.jpg)
(http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z290/yamaholic_mcarp/Island%20Time/PIC_0369_zps316bf89b.jpg)