I have a CP 23 and I am a lake sailor in the Midwest. I would like to take a sailing class to be certified to bareboat. Any recommendations for sailing schools? There are a lot out there and I want to have a good learning experience not just a vacation.
There is a Captain here in Sarasota, Florida who teaches ASA certified courses.
I don't have the particulars but, if the location interests you I can get details.
Let me know.
Dave
Sailboats Inc. has a three day, Weekend Certification Course on the Great Lakes and a Blue Water Course also. Look them up on Google.
John J.
Practical sailor did a article last month on sailing schools it was pretty good. I went with BSS out of Ft Lauderdale for advanced (open ocean) training and was pretty happy with it.
Most of the schools associated or certified by US Sailing or ASA (American Sailing Association) are probably decent. Find one nearby and google it to see if there are any students ratings. Or you can make it into a vacation down here in Florida or elewhere. Much warmer here than the midwest now. Steve Colgate's school on Captiva Island is one of the better ones.
I work part time for Flagship sailing in St. Petersburg, FL. They also offer summer corses on Lake Muskegon, Michigan. They are the most afordable around. Mention me and you will get a disscount. Gardner Lloyd (my Boss) and another instructor (Jim Thompson) have both been ASA instructors of the year a few times. Here is the web site.
http://www.flagshipsailing.com/
I'll be honest. The boats are not the newest most expensive, but they do sail like a sailboat should. For the classes they work great! Catalina 27s, THey feel like a big boat, but are easy enough to single hand.
Quote from: Thunderchild on December 30, 2010, 01:48:08 PM
I have a CP 23 and I am a lake sailor in the Midwest. I would like to take a sailing class to be certified to bareboat. Any recommendations for sailing schools? There are a lot out there and I want to have a good learning experience not just a vacation.
you didn't say whether you wanted to stay close to home and take these lessons of make a vacation out of it. The cost is quite different. Check American Sailing Association (ASA) at http://asa.com/ (http://asa.com/) for locations of sailing schools. I'm not as fond of US Sailing as IMO they are too focused on the industry (chartering, boat sales) but they are at http://home.ussailing.org/ (http://home.ussailing.org/) and many fine sailing schools are with US Sailing. If you are going to make a vacation of it, I would favor the Caribbean over Florida. Many sailing schools offer 7 or 8 days of charter and instruction that will get you all the way from Basic Keelboat to Bareboat certification.
If you have a school or location in mind maybe some of the people on this list can tell you if they are familiar with the school.
[The only schools I'm familiar with are in CT and CA.]
Curtis
ASA is better than US sailing. It is older, bigger, and more recognized.
Quote from: Billy on January 02, 2011, 04:16:26 PM
ASA is better than US sailing. It is older, bigger, and more recognized.
I don't know about that. US Sailing has been around since year 1 (actually 1897) and it's the central point of the sport of sailing in the US - including the olympics. ASA is an association of sailing schools that's maybe 20 years old who's primary interest (making money) may not be the same as the learner. I'm not knocking them, but don't do the same to US Sailing. Either group would be OK for a bareboat certification.
And the comment "They're focused on the industry". What - ??? They deal primarily with the SPORT of sailing, including just about all racing in the country. They don't sell boats.
Quote from: CaptRon28 on January 02, 2011, 05:46:00 PM
And the comment "They're focused on the industry". What - ??? They deal primarily with the SPORT of sailing, including just about all racing in the country. They don't sell boats.
Since I made the comment (prefixed with IMO) that US Sailing is more focused on the industry, let me explain. And let me also add that my opinion could be wrong (hence IMO).
Early on in my limited sailing experience when I was looking towards sailing instruction I bought the books for both ASA and US Sailing Courses. It seems to me based on the books that went with the courses that the ASA was more focused on learning to sail and US Sailing, particularly the bareboat courses, were more focused on working the modern gadgets including things like the AC.
The point of my comment, maybe poorly expressed, was that there seemed to be an underlying assumption in the US Sailing books that all sorts of modern gadgets are an integral part of sailing, when experience cruisers keep insisting those gadgets are not essential and in some cases not even desirable. That seems to me like an industry influence.
Maybe I'm wrong. As a sailing course text Gary Jobson's book and the others used by ASA seemed to me to be more about learning the skipper's responsibility and sailing the boat. The US Sailing books that I bought seemed to be less focused on the fundamentals of sailing and more of an introduction to every conceivable modern gadget. [BTW - There were other books that I personally think provide much better instruction than either of these series of coursework books, though I have to admit that both series, at least the ones I picked up, are concise and well illustrated.]
Compare the course offering and you will see that they have similar titles but slighly different focus. ASA list is at http://asa.com/asa_standards_summary.html (http://asa.com/asa_standards_summary.html). US Sailing list is at http://www.sailingcertification.com/LEARNTOSAIL/tabid/56/Default.aspx (http://www.sailingcertification.com/LEARNTOSAIL/tabid/56/Default.aspx). The easiest way to find the books is to go to a site like Amazon and search for ASA or US Sailing. On Amazon, you'll find books described as "Text used for <ASA or US Sailing> course #whatever".
Maybe the best advice I can give is to read over what each of the set of courses offers, and maybe even save the hundreds of dollars in course fees and buy the books first. Then based on which set of course descriptions and/or books you like, pick the ASA or Basic Sailing course series and set of courses (or package) you want, then go find a sailing school.
Sorry if I offended anyone with a harsh assessment of US Sailing.
Curtis
No Problem, Mon. I think both organizations can run decent sailing schools. I'd still try to find comments from previous students once you pick a school. Some are probably better than others - in both cases. I'd prefer the Caribbean as well, but one can drive from the mid west to Florida and spend a lot less money in the process.
As far as the new gadgets go, they are just tools that one can use to further enjoy the sport or activity - whichever way you look at it. Nice to have but don't be in a position to have to rely on it. Since they are in wide spread usage, you might as well learn what they can do. For a bareback charter, note that most of the boats will have much of this equipment onboard. I took a few advanced US Sailing courses maybe 20 years ago and there was very limited discussons on the gadgets back then in these courses (spinnaker handling, pre-start tactics, etc.). Maybe they get into them for the bareboat topics, and they probably have to noting the above. I'd hate to look like an idiot when I show up for a 50 foot Jeneau in the BVI's or ??
Gary Jobson's ASA course book is OK. But remember that he's the current president of US Sailing.
As a brand new sailer (got my ASA 101 and 103 certifications in early November), I was disappointed with the Jobson book - dry language, mystifying black and white photos etc. In the middle of my course, ASA's new textbook came out ($24.95 on their website asa.com) and it is a vast improvement - tons of excellent color graphics and a much more modern and engaging style. Highly recommended. You will get the new book included in tuition if you sign up for ASA 101, 103 or 104 at a sailing school now. I'm sure Jobson is a justifiably famous guy but textbooks were apparently not his forte.
I'd also put in a plug for Island Dreamer Sailing School, in the Miami/Keys area, which is where my wife and I learned. A much more personal, live-aboard experience than many larger sailing schools. Especially good if you want to experience the cruising lifestyle in addition to learning to sail. I wrote a rave review on their Yelp page (google Yelp Miami, then search Island Dreamer). Or check out their web site island-dreamer.com. You can't have much more fun than sailing in the Keys in November, if you're from the more northerly climes (NC, in my case).
- Wes
I suppose books are OK for background material and overviews, but absolutely nothing beats hands-on experience in the water. For anyone learning how to sail, get out on the water as often as you can and with more experienced skippers and crew if you can. Maybe join a racing crew, even if you don't want to race later on. Everyone is usually somewhat shorthanded. and they'd love to have you help out. Maybe find a skipper who doesn't yell that much. You'll learn more in 3 hours than reading the book for 10 days. A lot of this is pure sailing skill and that can't hurt anyone who wants to bareboat charter.
Sure - but the original poster said he wanted to get certified, which means taking the written tests, which would be pretty tough without reading the book. Book can't teach sailing skills, but sailing experience alone doesn't cover all the factual/vocabulary/COLREGs stuff on those tests. The new ASA book is a very good resource for new sailors (like me) to supplement sailing experience. I'm an engineer by training so I like having the reference material available to me, in case I'm hearing confusing or contradictory advice from human instructors.
- Wes
Interesting comments, makes me wonder if it is still possible to do it the old way, i.e. become "qualified" to bareboat charter without any certification. I never took any classes, when I did my first charter in the Virgin Islands, I just sent a resume to the charter operator and they accepted my deposit "provisionally, subject to an initial interview with the right to assign a captain for a day or so if they were not satisfied". The interview was nothing more than them checking me out on the particulars of the specific boat I was to take. What I found is that the "turnaround" person at the charter base is usually overworked trying to get their boats in, cleaned, provisioned if necessary, and back out quickly. In Abaco, I don't think the woman who had that job spent twenty minutes with us. Maybe they've done it enough to pick up on inexperience that would lead to problems.
I am on the other side of this: I have a 40 ft yacht that is chartered in the Seattle area. I find the charter companies that use it by and large do check on a person's qualifications, but often give them a benefit of a doubt. To answer Brach's question, yes it is possible charter without the bareboat certification. What they look for is experience in a yacht of similar size. If you own a 38 footer, for example, and sail in actively in the ocean, renting my boat would not be a problem.
Thanks for all the comments and great info! I still don't understand the difference between ASA and US sailing instruction but it seems like they are both good. I was looking at Off Shore Sailing for certificates but I get different info every time I talk to them. Based on comments I might try Fair Winds sailing out of Annapolis or Blue Water out of Newport. I would like to sail Penobscot Bay so would like something closest to that experience. Thanks to all that posted!
Quote from: newt on January 04, 2011, 11:14:40 AM
I am on the other side of this: I have a 40 ft yacht that is chartered in the Seattle area.......(snip)
I was recently looking at charter operators in that area. I noticed that there is a three season price tier. I've never been to the area. Is there a season or zone that is just not any good for sailing or is the pricing difference primarily based on seasonal volume demand?
Future daughter in law is heading to Seattle to do an internship with an architectural firm. Remote possibility we will go out there sometime next year.
Here's the scoop on the Salish Sea Sailing (Puget sound up through British Columbia) Now- cold but doable. Have a good heater. Rates will be really cheap. Around April the spring season opens. Temps in 50-60's. Best winds and least rain of the year- but no fishing really. Summer- peak demand from tourists and early salmon season 70's- with a cool down at night. Rains intermittent. Crab season open halfway through. Winds intermittent- but can be good. Fall- fishing, crabbing good, winds good, but the rain is more common. Cooling down to the 60's and 50's again.
Lots of good discussion here. Something to keep in mind is that once you start with one organization (US Sailing or ASA), you cannot use prior certifications to switch over to the other certifications.
I took the "Fast Track to Cruising" course with Offshore Sailing School (Steve Colgate's outfit) in 2004, an 8 day course from Duck Key, Fla to Key West and back, and I was very happy with it. You earn all certifications from "Learn To Sail" to "Live Aboard Cruising (Bareboat Cruising)". It's a US Sailing school.
I then wanted to continue my education and take a Coastal Cruising course with an ASA school (Maryland School of Sailing), and they won't accept the US Sailing Certification to get you into the course.
I'm now going for my US Sailing "Coastal Navigation" and "Coastal Cruising" certification, taking a 6 day course this May from Tortola, BVI to Bermuda with Ron Swain Sailing School, which has sites in the BVI's and in Newport, RI.
Quote from: reesail on January 22, 2011, 10:28:01 AM
Something to keep in mind is that once you start with one organization (US Sailing or ASA), you cannot use prior certifications to switch over to the other certifications.
But you should be able to use EXPERIENCE. I took two advanced courses several years ago with a US Sailing affiliated school (Colgate) and they never questioned the missing elementary courses in my log.
yea, I know you can test out of taking BKB101 and BCC103with the ASA. If you have the experience.
ASA will let you test out of anything. You can take the written tests and go on a sail with an instructor. This is billed as a private lesson. It is up to the sailing school whether they do that. I've asked about that but never went for it. The reason for asking is that I work on the west coast and live on the east coast and while on the west coast I might want to join a sailing club and take some club boats out.
I got two somewhat different answers on this from San Fransisco Bay area sailing clubs. I think they are both ASA Schools. Spinaker Sailing was willing to do the test and check out sail. Pacific Sail in Santa Cruz was very reluctant to consider this and opened the conversation with a comment along the lines of "just because you are a boat owner doesn't mean you know how to sail" before any conversation at all about whether I had any experience. This may have been the individuals I spoke to. I might be because I went to Spinaker Sailing and talked to someone in person and I called Pacific Sail on the phone.
Being in Santa Cruz where they are ocean sailing Pacific Sail wants to be more cautious. That I can understand, but it seemed to me that as soon as I mentioned "small boat" the person on the other end of the phone had heard enough and wanted to just give the standard lecture on the big bad ocean and rough inlet and either sign me up for courses or get off the phone. After I explained that I normally sail on the other northern hemisphere ocean which perhaps wasn't that different, that Chatham Break was also a difficult inlet and that I had been on bigger boats than my own CP23 and had chartered and skippered a 50 footer for two weeks he did reluctantly verify that they did offer an opt out and checkout.
The chartering companies on the other hand seem to want to take the time to listen to what your sailing experience is and then make a call. When talking to a charter company (I've talked to a few but only chartered once) I've been very up front about my inexperience docking because there are few docks to dock at where I sail, but on the positive side I've done plenty of picking up a mooring and anchoring. Since the only docking we'd be doing after leaving was at their dock twice, once to reprovision and then to return the boat they were more than happy to send someone out to dock the boat for us.
The thing with the charter companies is that they are very serious about you getting on the mooring or the hook by 5PM so you don't find yourself looking over the bow for the coral in your path with the sun too low to actually see anything. They do process quite a few insurance claims but they can usually tell who knows what they have to be watching for and who is fairly clueless.
One thing that Conch Charter did in the briefing (which is also a final checkout interview, but downplayed) is ask where you plan to go and discuss that. They will remind you of the hazards of each entrance and as they do so if it seems that you have read the cruising guides and paid close attention to the descriptions of hazards that is reassuring to them. If you tell them you plan to go through some impassible strait becasue you saw water on the chart there and it is clear to them that you didn't read a crusing guide to find out it was a mine field or you weren't aware that all those little numbers on the chart were depth numbers, then they won't find that reassuring and you may end up with a hired captain on board.
They will also give their own recommendation on places to visit and things to do and in that way supplement the cruising guide. They also tell you where you are forbidden to go for insurance reasons and mark that on a sketch chart. The people at Conch Charter were really nice (the boats, well ... uh .. they were the least expensive).
Take this with a big grain of salt since I only chartered once.
Curtis