As I understand it, the Sun Cat has been around a while (10 years?) and so there is more knowledge out there about how it sails vs these two newer models. Although the configuration of the wetted surface of the boat and the amount of ballast might be the same, one difference might be overall weight and where the on the boom the mainsheet is sheeted. Regarding weight, I'm wondering if the Sun Cat Daysailer might be significantly lighter than the Sun Cat and the Sunday Cat might be in between. I've heard weight stats on the Sun Cat of well over 2200 pounds that may include trailer and a lot of gear. I've heard on the Sunday Cat over 1,800 pounds including trailer. As a percentage difference, that it pretty big. Would this make the lighter boats livelier performing? Has anyone sailed all-three or at least the Sun Cat and the Sunday Cat? Are there perceptible differences? Regarding the two newer models, do you notice a significant loss in cockpit space with the Sunday Cat vs the Sun Cat Daysailer? It was supposed to be essentially the same, but I'm not sure how that is possible. Does a boom-end mainsheet sheeting arrangement benefit significantly from a Boom Vang?
John McNeely
Only your last question has a straightforward answer: Yes.
The Sun Cat was originally designed by Clark Mills, and was built by a company called Sun Cat in the 1970s. This is a 1972
(http://www.tropicalboating.com/imagestr/suncatsuncatw.jpg)
It had no keel and carried two bilge boards in pockets on the backsides of the cockpit bench walls. You can see the controls of the starboard bilge board in the pic. It was Marconi rigged.
Com-Pac bought the license and changed the boat a bit, beginning production of the modern Com-Pac Sun Cats in 2000. I think they made both Daysailers and cabin Sun Cats from the beginning, but I know the Daysailers have been in production since before 2004, when I started selling them at Gulf Island Sails. The Sunday Cat is the recent introduction to the catboat herd.
Com-Pac claims all the boats weigh 1,500 lbs, but boats always seem to weigh a bit more than manufacturers claim when you actually put them on a scale. I have not weighed our Sun Cat, but I figure the boat may weigh 1,600, and I add an engine, fuel, battery, bimini top, cockpit grate, safety stuff, cushions, anchor, etc and get it up to 1,700 pretty quick. Wild guess on the trailer 650 lbs means it all weighs 2,350 going down the road.
The other two are most likely lighter, but I doubt the performance difference is significant. By that I mean, none of them will move in light air, but once you have a bit of breeze, they move along fine. A tiny bit less breeze in the Daysailer or Sunday Cat, but the difference will rarely matter in practice.
The loss of cockpit space in the Sunday Cat is really very small. The Daysailer cockpit follows the same line as the Sun Cat and Sunday Cat cabins, and you can see in this picture the small slice of the forward end of the cockpit that it takes off. Like any cabin it also adds a bit of weight and windage, but not enough to matter IMO.
(http://www.com-pacyachts.com/pics/sunday-cat/gallery/images/roomy-cockpit.jpg)
Update: I had Jim Guernsey at Gulf Island Sails go out and measure the cockpit of their Sunday Cat, and he reports it is 9'2" long.
Can anyone tells us what the length of the cockpit is on a regular Sun Cat (with cabin) and also on the newer Sun Cat Daysailer (no cabin whatsoever). We've learned for the Sunday Cat, it is 9 feet 2 inches. Thanks,
John McNeely
John, I must have measured a Sun Cat back when I worked at Gulf Island Sails, because the measurement is on their website:
http://www.gisails.com/boats/compac/suncat/
The cockpit is 6'6" long. That is along the centerline, where it is longest. The tiller sweeps the aft portion, so passengers can't really be there...
(http://www.tropicalboating.com/imagestr/LibTillTamer.jpg)
Hi Tom:
OK that means the difference in cockpit length is 32 inches between the Sun Cat and the Sunday Cat. Another adult could fit in that on each side. But I am mindful of an earlier posting where 4 people was a recommended limit as more than that is a bit much for a boat as small as the Sunday Cat. But what it really means in practical terms is that there is more room for those four to stretch out and be comfortable.
John
Quote from: Tom Ray on December 30, 2010, 07:11:36 AM
John, I must have measured a Sun Cat back when I worked at Gulf Island Sails, because the measurement is on their website:
http://www.gisails.com/boats/compac/suncat/
The cockpit is 6'6" long. That is along the centerline, where it is longest. The tiller sweeps the aft portion, so passengers can't really be there...
(http://www.tropicalboating.com/imagestr/LibTillTamer.jpg)
The problem with putting 6 people, especially large ones, in any version of Sun Cat is that you will at some point cause the cockpit scuppers to be below the water line and you will get more water coming up the centerboard tube under way.
The scuppers drain out the transom, and have little flaps to reduce backflow caused by waves, but those flaps are definitely not a watertight seal. Some people have added little ball type backflow preventers, and those are more watertight.
Mark Milam built a little column around his centerboard line lead to raise it high enough that it would not spit a little water under way. Search the catboat forum archives on trailersailor.com for pics.
I highly recommend the teak cockpit grate. Any little puddle in the cockpit tends to stay under it, so you have a dry surface.
Tom,
is there any other benfit to a cockpit grate? other than they look really cool!
It seems like more weight and more maintence.
Yes, there is. You would be surprised how much dirt 2 people and 2 dogs bring aboard, and how much hair humans and dogs shed in a day.
At the end of the day, I pull the grate out and it's pretty nasty down there! All stuff that was NOT getting tracked around the boat.
Mine is coated with Cetol, and gets hosed off and put in the shed between uses. Not much maintenance, really.
Funny part is, I sold my boat to the original owner as a new boat when I worked at the dealership. I told him that for the money, I would get some nice throwables and West Marine seats for sitting and some Dri-Dek squares for the deck. He thought the real cockpit cushions and grate were worth it to him, and bought them. Now I love them!
Billy,
I made my cockpit grate out of leftover material I had in the garage after building a sailboat. The boards resemble the teak ones from the factory in shape but are made of 3/8 Meranti Marine Plywood with relatively thin cross members underneath to hold them in place. The whole thing is painted with Interlux Brightside Polyurethane to match my green hull and is rather lightweight. To achieve the necessary standoff distance above the cockpit sole (for centerboard pennant teak surround) and provide quick drainage, I used stainless washer spacers and round rubber door bumpers from the hardware store as feet. No wood stays in contact with water very long with the rubber feet. Keeps our feet and all control lines dry.
Yes, Don built a sailboat all right...
(http://www.suncatnationals.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/lassqtrbacking-lg.jpg)