I would like to keep an eye out for "off season" sales, etc. for a new small outboard for my CP19.
The general consensus (as well as manufacturer) say to keep it in the 4-6hp range.
I've done some reading on 2 vs 4 stroke, weight issues, etc.
For me, I am most concerned about EASE OF STARTING & RELIABILITY. (sailing is fun, messing around with an engine is not)
This would be my first outboard and frankly I don't have much experience with small gas engines except for my Honda push lawnmower (which has always started by the second pull for the past 13 years now) (but I don't want to assume Honda's lawn equipment and marine equipment are equal).
Not sure if there is more out there but I only could find 6 manufacturers making small portable outboards (5 of the 6 are Japanese).
So we're comparing "apples to apples" I've listed 4 stroke 5 & 6 hp outboards that seem readily available. ALL are 20" long.
Prices are "fairly" similar ranging from $1300 to $1600.
If there is something I've missed let me know, and especially your thoughts of a model or brand that you really like or really had a problem with.
Opinions please!
thanks, Ray
Honda BF5AKL
5 hp
61 lbs
Mercury 5ML
5 hp
55 lbs
Mercury 6ML
6 hp
55 lbs
Suzuki DF6L
6 hp
57 lbs
Yamaha F6LMHA
6 hp
60 lbs
Nissan NSF6B2
6 hp
55 lbs.
Tohatsu MFS6BL
6 hp
55 lbs.
I have the Tohatsu 6hp 25" shaft and love it. (There is a place here is St. Petersburg that sells them for $1300 (msrp around $1800). I'll give you his # if you want
Honda's are VERY reliable. However they are air cooled which means noiser but no water intake, you can start it in your driveway and run all the gas out.
I also have a 2005 yamaha 2hp 15" shaft (for sale for around $600) that I used on my 19. It is a short shaft and would come out of the water when I went forward to hoist the sails. So I bought the extra long shaft sail pro from Tohatsu. The yamaha 2 hp has PLENTY of power to push my 19. In fact the 6hp is probably too much. The 2 hp worked great. Just wish it was a longer shaft
As to 2 stroke VS 4 stoke, I don't think you can buy a new 2 stroke due to emissions. 2 strokes are lighter and more powerful, but they do stink and smoke a bit more and they are louder and less reliable than a 4 stroke. Also you have to mix the gas and oil in a 2 stroke.
Ray they are all pretty good and give good service. Note Tohatsu makes the Mercury, they are identical except badging.
With that said I had a Nissan (again, same as Tohatsu) 6hp 4 stroke and wasn't happy with it. Sometimes it got hard to start, probably water related but it also ran rich and fouled spark plugs and it vibrated quite a bit. It was a 2003 model and not used much. It probably needed a different prop.
In March I snagged a never used Yamaha 8hp 2 stroke with twin cylinders (same weight as the 6hp version) off craigslist. Put a lower pitch torque prop on it. Very smooth, extremely easy to pull start and not much maintenance on the 2 strokes. Moves the CP19 along at a little over 6knots in calm water.
Key things to remember if you want it reliable regardless if it's brand new:
-Keep fresh gas in the tank with marine stabil, no older than 1 month (today's ethanol does not last long in a marine environment).
-Drain carburator, fuel pump, lines and tank after each season (cleaning it each year would be wise as well).
-Flush cooling system at the end of the season.
I think the 2 strokes are more reliable, but since they haven't sold them in the US for a few years now, to get a two stroke you may have to go used. If you scout some you can get a good one though.
I thought only the Honda 2 hp was air-cooled, but I could be wrong.
I have a 1988 Nissan 8 hp 2 stroke, two cylinder. Literaly starts 1st pull, all year long, even after winter storage it starts on the first or second pull. I should note that I am an engine maintenance fanatic. Hey, you reap what you sow, right?
Ray, Keep in mind: 4 strokes have more moving parts and you will have oil to change. And heavier. That being said, if my Nissan dies, I'll be looking at a Tohatsu 4 stroke, me thinks.
Bob23
I have a Suzuki DF9.9EL and it has been perfect in terms of reliability. Of course it is a 9.9 (for my 23) rather than a 6, but I trust the brand based on that experience.
That said I will be removing it and replacing it with a Tohatsu Sail Pro 6 and using the 9.9 for another application. This to get the weight down. I have a contract with my back to make that change. :)
You're right about the Honda 5Hp being water cooled Bob.
I looked at both 6hp Tohatsu Long Shaft and 6hp Yamaha LS for my SunCat (empty weight 1,500). I though the resale value might be higher with the Yamaha so I went it and have not been disappointed. It is quiet, smooth running & fairly light weight. It also pushes the boat along at hull speed with half throttle or less. Finally the service/support is excellent.
A few (but not all) of the above engines also come in a 25" transom length (I listed 20" models above).
Would a 25" length be better for a CP19 or is a 20" fine ?
-Ray
Ray,
I have a 4 stroke 2.5 hp Yamaha on my CP16. I wanted a Honda but there were no dealers close. The Yamaha dealer is on my way to work. He had been a Johnson dealer and switched several years ago. He said his warranty work went from all the time with Johnson to next to nothing with Yamaha.
My engine starts fine even after sitting all winter. (I do follow the maintenance instructions) I use it on different boats and have been very happy.
Neal
Ray:
In regards to you question about 20" vs 25" shaft length: I have a longshaft Nissan (20") and when motoring in rough conditions, the prop will come out of the water occasionally. A 25" shaft would be nice, but not nessesary.
Bob23
Quote from: Ray on December 15, 2010, 06:35:06 PM
A few (but not all) of the above engines also come in a 25" transom length (I listed 20" models above).
Would a 25" length be better for a CP19 or is a 20" fine ?
-Ray
I have a 25" shaft on a 19' Com-Pac. I think it may be a bit too long. Had a 2.5 hp 15" shaft before and it worked in calm water just fine. when I lift the motor mount up and tilt the motor the bottom of the shaft is only out of the water a few inches.
Also, (others may be able to help w/ this) I notice that w/ my new motor (25" shaft) the weather helm on the tiller gets REALLY stiff when I turn the throttle up past 1/2 way on the long shaft. Is it possible the lower prop has a different effect on the rudder?
I have the NEW MODEL Yamaha four stroke F4LMHA (62 lbs, which is the SAME SIZE & WEIGHT as the F6LMHA), pushing a 1500 lb Suncat quite nicely through the water. And, I paid less for the 4HP than I would have for the 6HP. The NEW model 4 HP increases the displacement from 6.7 cubic inches to 8.5 cubic inches with an increase of only 24 lbs. The Yamaha 6HP has the SAME 8.5 cubic inch displacement and achieves the additional 2 HP at increased Full Throttle RPM. My motor starts easily and runs great. It has a F-N-R gear shifter with both internal AND external fuel tank options. I've had several Yamaha Outboards in my 30 years of sailing and boating and have never been disappointed. Highly recommend you take a good long hard look at the Yamaha F4LMHA.
capt_nemo
I ve heard the same thing about Yamahas. Especially in salt water they are the way to go and when my 17 year old 8hp long shaft Evinrude, aka Mr. E finally passes on I ll replace him with a Yamaha. I ve heard the Hondas are more susceptible to bad gas. We have had several experiences with cavitation usually associated with coming in heavy trafficked passes. I would not use an engine smaller than an 8hp for a 23 if you must deal with tides. Matt
Billy,
Next time you are out on your boat at 1/2 throttle keep one hand on the stationary tiller and use the other hand to turn the outboard slightly one way then the other and note what happens to the weather helm. There will be a point where the tiller feels neutral.
Nemo,
yea, thats what I have tried. I only have about 10 hours on the motor though. Unfortunately on the Tohatsu the thumbscrew that adjust the friction on how much the motor can swivel is on the back of the shaft, which makes it really hard to reach from inside the cockpit. I like to keep it stiff so it doesn't turn and I just steer w/ the tiller. And also the more I throtle the greater the weatherhelm. Which means the more I need to turn the motor. and I need to keep it loose enough to adjust but not so loose that it turns on its own. So unless I am going a longer motor trip it is a constant adjustment. Do you have that same problem with a 20" shaft? Never really happend w/ my 15".
But like I said I don't have very many hours on the motoer and I'm sure you are right about finding the sweet spot. Thanks for the suggestion!
FYI, I never need to really turn it up past 1/2 throtle so I would say the 6 hp is almost too much for my 19. If the 4hp wasn't the same motor w/ a different carb (or something like that but the same weight) I would reccomend a 4 hp. Like I said the 2.5 hp yamaha 15" shaft pushed my boat just fine except in choppy water.
One thing about my 2005 yamaha though, the carb was constantly getting clogged. In about 3 years I had to have it cleaned out at least 3 times. And I always ran the gas out and never had it in the tank for more than 30 days. I liked my Yamaha alot except for the carb getting clogged all the time. Paying $135 to get it fixed is one thing, having it brteak down when your coming in the channel is another. Liked the motor, it was easy to start (except when the carb was clogged) and never had any other problems.
Billy,
With regard to carb problems in the outboard - if you are not using gasoline Sta-Bil in your outboard you should. It not only stabilizes the fuel but keeps varnish from building up and gumming up the carb. EVERY ounce of fuel that has ever gone in to all the outboards I've ever owned was treated with Sta-Bil, and like I said earlier I never had a problem with my Yamahas. Also, use the smallest fuel tank possible and add fresh treated fuel when needed.
capt_nemo
Ray,
First ask yourself why you need an outboard.
If you sail in CT and plan to sail on any of the lakes (all small and with light to no wind) or on Long Island Sound (notorious for dead calm evening to next morning) the likely answer is "in case the wind dies". If your answer was "for when the wind is too strong", think again.
When the wind is strong, without the long shaft (25") the prop won't be in the water enough to go to windward. With the long shaft it will spend about half the time out of the water so you have to keep the throttle way down to keep the outboard from racing when its out. That's why for strong wind add reef points to the sail and get a second smaller headsail. For "no wind" consider an outboard (and get the long shaft anyway since waves can persist after the wind has died). I sail engineless but I think if I were sailing on the unreliable winds of Long Island Sound I'd reconsider (or at least finish the oar I've been threatenning to build for years).
Curtis
btw - a sculling oar never fails to start and is much easier to winterize each year.
My CP19 will be in a slip in a nearby marina, I just need that motor to get me out till I can hoist those sails! (and back in later). Hoping never to have to rely on the outboard to much but I am at least smart enough to know that "stuff" happens out there (including in the Long Island Sound) and I want an outboard there when I need it, to move me where I need to go, whenever that may be, to wherever I need to go to. Reliability. Dependability. I plan to look strongly at the Honda & Yamaha (I have both dealers nearby, ....we'll see if and how much each will give me for a trade for the '83 Evinrude 7.5 (2 stroke) that came with the boat.
All comments have been great!
Happy Holidays!
-Ray
Good point. A slip is also a good reason to have an outboard.
I keep forgeting since I'm on a mooring and can sail on and off the mooring no matter what the wind direction is. And there is no real current to speak of near the mooring.
Curtis