Just went back to 2008 postings researching this question as it is probably so basic that I will be embarrassed :-[ when I hear the answer(s). But I still have lots to learn about my 23, so here goes. When I acquired her she had a very dirty black line that was obviously serving as what I thought was a topping lift. I don't think boat was off hard for 4-5 years when we met. The line was very ugly and I have despised it since first observation. I also noticed while solo sailing one day that the line was too short to allow the sail to fill properly.
Now there is also a very neat little wire swaged to the backstay that attaches to the end of the boom that seems to accomplish the same objective.
Having just lowered the mast for the first time I took great joy in requesting the Admiral(as you guys seem to refer to your partners) to remove that ugly black clothesline kind of line from it's attachment point on the mast.
So here is my question(finally ::)): why should I not remove that ugly line permanently as long as I have that neat little wire to hold up the mast prior to hoisting the main? If you tell me why I need it, I promise to put a new clean shipshape line there before we launch again. Thanks, rip
Hi Rip,
I have both lines and I prefer my topping lift. If properly adjusted, it allows you to raise the main when you are not straight into the wind. I also worry that if the main is raised and you turn into a broad reach without taking it off the aft-stay you may be in a world of hurt. But everyone sails differently. You can always put it back later.
Agree with Newt.
I like the Amsteel lines (1/8" for the topping lift) for this application. Strong, light, low windage and lasts a long time. They also do not hold moisture or dirt.
If done correctly (a little fiddling with it and some basic parts), you can leave the lift on all the time with two places to attach the lift to the boom.
One position high for at the dock, on the hook, or motoring. The other position lower--high enough to hold the boom from crashing down but lower enough for the sail to fill with air. Use while sailing only.
Carabiners, simple snap clips, rings, etc works well here. Attach the "low" position method in a way which can't be accidentally untied. That way you just have to unsnap to lower, or unsnap to raise. Sorry I don't have a pic to share.
wouldn't you need to remove the wire topping lift attached to the back stay everytime you raise the main so the boom can swing? With a topping lift (attached to the top of the mast) you can keep it attached to the boom and not need worry about it w/ sails up or down.
salty is on the money. i use the same method with two rings (like key rings) tied high and low on the topping lift. i have a carbiner on the end of the boom at attach the topping lift rings to that. also you might ease your mainsheet when hoisting the main for two reasons- one it frees the sail near the mast and prevents binding when raising and two if the boat turns beam to the wind it will spill air and slow any unwanted forward motion
Thanks guys, lots of good info. You have confirmed most of my suspicions. I have a plan now.
Or you can eliminate all that above and use a boomkicker.
Showoff ;)
Thanks bmiller, I googled boomkicker as I didn't really know what it was or how it worked, but I have no interest in adding more hardware in that area.
I have been able to think of conditions where the topping lift could save some grief as when you get caught in a blow with the main out and want to drop the main sail quickly without putting the boom and sail in the water or on somebody's head. So guess I will go with the line suggested by Salty19, but without the dual position hardware. The wire off the backstay works for me when on the mooring, dock or anchor. Not eazing the mainsheet when hoisting main does not compute for me. I guess it's my Hobie background - trying to get the slug in the little clip at the top of the mast if mainsheet is not totally loose is nearly impossible for this old sailor. Thanks again!
Yeah, the 'kickers are a little too much trouble for trailer sailing but would be nice for a slip boat. I've seen them mostly on bigger yachts on Lake Erie. Some of the kickers are priced in the thousands.
rip, I would really encourage you to think twice about two attachment points. If the lift is set low/long enough for good sail shape (ie lift is totally slack with sail up, as it should be), then it will probably be too low at the dock/anchor for comfort. It's worthless to you if it's too low.
Set high enough for good clearance for the captain's noggin at anchor and it's too tight while sailing and consequently hurting performance.
Thus one setting each for high and low.
The line off the backstay is fine, but as mentioned you don't want it there when hoisting the mailsail. It will work OK at the dock or when lowering the sail.
That setup will also not let you move the boom aside while at anchor/dock, tieing the boom to a stanchion or the like to get it out of the cockpit. That may not matter to you though. Another reason to not use the backstay is now you have two lines to manage when one would work. AND you have to secure the boom end of the topping lift while at sail (assuming you want it mounted so the boom is high, which would probably be the case. If you leave it attached and it's mounted so the boom is high, your sail shape will be poor and you'll notice that in sailing performance.
With two points of attachment you don't have to stow it while sailing and it's one snap clip to raise or lower. Easy..and thank you kicknbug for the idea a few years back.
Try it out next time your out...for me that would May 1!.
Install a CDI furler and use the resultant spare halyard as an adjustable topping lift after turning it around?
That's what I've got, works great. I actually took it off and put back a 1/4" double braid with a very small shackle. Saved the existing, heavier jib halyard for a spinnaker halyard.
Hooking up that pigtail to lower the main in windy, boat rocking conditions is not easy and if you don't get it done quickly and get crosswise to the wind, not good.
I installed lazy jacks on my boat since I single hand most of the time. They hold the boom up as the longer hook set up would on the topping lift and allow me to lower the sail without heading into the wind. I then attach the boom to the hook on the back stay after the sail is down.
Wow! Lots of great ideas. This is almost as good as sailing ;D I have been thinking about a furler and that makes Brackish's adjustable topping lift appealing, but that reminds me of a question that occurred to me the first time I ran it around my head: How do you change headsails? Or do you just use the genny and adjust sail area with the furler? How bout when you want a storm sail up there? Same? Don't stop now guys!
Quote from: rip on December 07, 2010, 07:13:04 PM
Wow! Lots of great ideas. This is almost as good as sailing ;D I have been thinking about a furler and that makes Brackish's adjustable topping lift appealing, but that reminds me of a question that occurred to me the first time I ran it around my head: How do you change headsails? Or do you just use the genny and adjust sail area with the furler? How bout when you want a storm sail up there? Same? Don't stop now guys!
CDI furlers have their own internal halyard that can be used to change sails (with a messenger line attached to the halyard). I leave a 135 on most of the time. If I know I will be in heavier weather conditions for a while, I'll change to a 110. Each can be rolled up to reef, however, maybe fifteen or twenty percent of the sail area is all you can go without losing effective sail shape.
Changing sails is certainly not as quick or easy as with a hank on, but can be done.
Another way of doing the topping lift... take the 1/8" line from the top of the mast (just inside of the aft stay) and bring it to a fairlead V cleat at the end of the boom. That lets you adjust the topping lift height as desired. I used a Ronstan part 283475 which is about $5 at West Marine.
Shawn
They have storm Jibs that can hank on over a furled Jib. Don't recal what magizine I saw it in but they do have them.
Shawn, are you concerned about the v cleat holding the line fast? What about in strong winds with a confused seaway? I could see them coming loose?
I've been wrong about such things before (and probably will be again)...interested in your opinion on it.
Quote from: Billy on December 08, 2010, 06:34:06 PM
They have storm Jibs that can hank on over a furled Jib. Don't recal what magizine I saw it in but they do have them.
You probably saw the ATN Gale Rider. http://search.defender.com/?Action=4&StartIndex=1&SH=QT1nYWxlfkI9Z2FsZX5EPTI1fkc9Mzk0NTheMX5JPVByaWNlfks9NH5MPTF_TT0xfk49Mn4&SI=32d33795-2b70-44a0-aef9-a6fd8f6068f2 (http://search.defender.com/?Action=4&StartIndex=1&SH=QT1nYWxlfkI9Z2FsZX5EPTI1fkc9Mzk0NTheMX5JPVByaWNlfks9NH5MPTF_TT0xfk49Mn4&SI=32d33795-2b70-44a0-aef9-a6fd8f6068f2)
Curtis
I haven't had any problems with the V cleat not holding. But as an added precaution you just put a stopper knot in the line (at the lowest you would want the boom) and if the v cleat let go the stopper would hold it when it hits the fairlead.
Shawn
A simple solution that works on a C-16 where there is no backstay is to use a 1/8" line from the masthead to the end of the boom and back up to the masthead.
It works like a simplified lazyjack and can be left in place while underway without interfering with the mainsail.
Are these "adjustable topping lift" or "two attachment points" for the topping lift ideas also applicable to the CP19? Mine is still just wintering in the yard now but in the spring I want to replace the old lines, I believe currently there is just the "standard" (?) topping lift line there.
Quote from: Pacman on December 30, 2010, 04:25:47 PM
A simple solution that works on a C-16 where there is no backstay is to use a 1/8" line from the masthead to the end of the boom and back up to the masthead.
It works like a simplified lazyjack and can be left in place while underway without interfering with the mainsail.
Please enlighten me,as I can't see how this would act like a lazyjack??
Ray,
They should work fine on the 19. I do fairlead V-cleat on a 23.
Shawn
Quote from: Kimanaa on December 31, 2010, 08:56:06 AM
Quote from: Pacman on December 30, 2010, 04:25:47 PM
A simple solution that works on a C-16 where there is no backstay is to use a 1/8" line from the masthead to the end of the boom and back up to the masthead.
It works like a simplified lazyjack and can be left in place while underway without interfering with the mainsail.
Please enlighten me,as I can't see how this would act like a lazyjack??
The line loops down from the masthead to the boom about 3/4 of the way back to the end of the boom and back up to the masthead. That holds the boom up like a topping lift when the sail is on its way down and it helps me catch the main. It is not as effective as a full lazy jack system but it doesn't get in the way like a full lazy jack system can sometimes do.
Thanks pacman.Yes 3/4 back,this will work.