Hi All, in welcoming a newbie we got on the discussion of what initial knowledge should be necessary for sailing. I would recommend
1. The first few chapters in Annapolis Book of Seamanship (or any beginning book on sailing) to understand how sailboats work.
2. Safety standards from the USCG
3. How to handle common emergencies: MOB, hypothermia, Sudden bad weather, etc.
Perhaps we could use this thread in discussing the above, and any other necessary knowledge for beginning sailors. I will then edit it (if it needs it) and sticky it for the new sailors that join our site.
Enjoy! And try to keep the knowledge confined to beginning sailors (ie-those that probably will not venture too far from shore)
Great idea, Newt:
And you touched on some great advice: Don't venture too far from shore. A year ago, some kids decided to play around in a Sunfish in the ocean here in NJ. A strong offshore wind picked up and blew them pretty far out to sea. Fortunately, they were found the next day but spent a chily night aboard a Sunfish with no food, water, etc. That could have turned into a disaster. I don't think they'll be doing that again.
Carry a radio and/or cell phone.
Don't take the water (or life for that matter) for granted. Remember, each time we sail we are venturing away from our home turf. While on the water, gravity's natural goal is to send us to the bottom and it is the vessels design and integrity that is keeping us from going there. Don't sail on a junker.
Wear a PFD.
That's it for now.
Bob23
My advice would be to find a sailing club in your area that teaches sailing. These clubs usually have members as the instructors. The advantage of the member taught schools, while maybe not certified by some association or other, feature instructors who have been through the process of learning by doing. They have the same fears and joys of the sport. I would recommend a basic sailing course - one that teaches you the ropes and how to sail around a triangular course. Thats It. You can take other courses as your experience dictates. Save the racing for later.
There is nothing wrong with the corporate schools by the way. After teaching sailing for the last decade and a half I happen to think the member taught courses better address the needs of beginners . Most sailing clubs really don't have the ability to teach the highly technical classes and that's where the pros shine. Matt
My advice is for the newbies who will elect NOT to listen to some of the good advice about reading seamanship and sailing books and taking classes, and will just go out on the water.
First, don't do it.
OK, OK, you're going to anyway.
Point your finger in the direction of the wind at least once per minute until you have constant awareness of where it is.
Learn to sail upwind, and stay upwind of your home base. Anyone can sail across the wind and downwind.
Have backup plans, meaning a paddle or two, anchor, extra water, waterproof VHF radio, and clothing appropriate to the climate if you should wind up out overnight.
Or maybe, Tom, newbies such as these should stick to powerboating which doesn't require that you know all that much. Just fill up the tank, hand over your credit card, point and go. Sounds so boringly simple, doesn' it?
My first sails were aboard a found-and-fixed-up Sunfish. I didn't read any books or learn from anyone- just rigged the boat and went out into the bay. Although I'm still here to tell the tales, I don't recommend this route for everyone. I just happen to learn better by doing than from books. That being said, these days I prefer to avert possible disasters by reading first and screwing up later.
I guess the best thing a beginner can do is to get the opportunity to sail on a seasoned skippers boat. (Of course, a Compac would be best but I admit to a possibility of personal bias).
Anything is best learned by someone who's done it before.
Oh, and ask questions...by far the best way to increase your knowledge about anything. Even if you have to make yourself a pain in the ass!
Bob23
As a newbie of sorts, I would like to add my two cents. The Com-Pac 16 I got in May, 2010 was the largest boat I've owned. I had smaller boats before but was never an avid sailer. With this boat, I have so far taken my time.
I took a refresher sailing coarse and have read "Start Sailing Right", " Handbook of Trailer Sailing" by Burgerss, and " Sailing Big on a Small Sailboat" by Cardwell. In addition I have tons of old sailing magazine full of advice given to me by friends and the previous boat owner. This site has been an incredible source of advise and support. With you guys I feel that I am not alone at this endeavor.
Learned to launch and retreive her using the best ramp I could find and only motored her out on the New River in Fort Lauderdale until I had a feel for motoring her. Each time taking her farther toward the mouth of the river until I got used to dealing with the close boat traffic on that waterway. This was good practice for when coming in from the open bay and entering a busy channel to the ramp area.
I found an appropriate sand bank on the Intercoastal Waterway to practice my anchoring skills.
Finally in early October, 2010 I took it out on Biscayne Bay from the Coconut Grove ramp and raised the sails for the first time. Now the practicing really begins.
Its been slow, I'm patient, learning each step of the way finding small things needing repairs, replacement and maintenance.. Its been fun the whole time.
My advice is to go slow and develop the need skills.
RCAN, Thanks for the advice. I have one last bit of fiberglass repair to do on my 16 and then the launch. It has been 46 years since I have skippered a boat. Have sailed about 3 time only on 36 foot boat since then. Still, your idea of motoring the first few times makes sense. I had planned to use the main only until I got use to the boat. Also planned on staying within the channel markers along the beach so I could always be within knee to neck deep water. Do have a motor, but always hoped it would work. Paddles yes. My thoughts were I could always use the 300 ft of line on board for the sea anchor and swim if necessary with it and a life vest to touchable bottom if I ever got into trouble before I got enough experience to venture out of the protection area. I will have a little over a quarter mile from beach to markers to play with. Also plan to drag the 3/8" tarp to trailer securing line with a float on it for awhile once I leave the protected area. Will sail with a mate on board all this season and maybe next until I build some skills and confidence. Planning on taking a seasoned sailor of 30 years out with me the first time or two.
Thanks to all for the advice.
David
I'll tell you truthfully David, you aren't going to have a bit of trouble. All those thing you said in your post, I thought of the first time I took my little 16 out. Those little boats make guys like us who don't know what we are doing look like pros. I started out with the main, and it wasn't long before I had the jib up, and had her heeled over, and was having a ball. When I got in, (btw, this was the middle of January, about 60 degrees) several people in cars who had been watching came up to admire the boat and said I must have really known what I was doing cause I had her really over and was running well. I didn't tell them any different. just be a little careful and feel her out and I guarentee before the day is out, you will feel like you have been doing it for years. ( you also won't be able to wait to get out and do it again.)
Bob D
...and watch out for the boom when you come about or gybe. I think most of us have had our noggins "boomed" at least once!
Bob23
Quote from: Bob23 on October 26, 2010, 06:30:56 AM
Or maybe, Tom, newbies such as these should stick to powerboating which doesn't require that you know all that much. Just fill up the tank, hand over your credit card, point and go. Sounds so boringly simple, doesn' it?
My first sails were aboard a found-and-fixed-up Sunfish. I didn't read any books or learn from anyone- just rigged the boat and went out into the bay.
Powerboats are lots of fun, and help develop needed seamanship skills on days with no wind. I'm also self taught, more or less, and also don't recommend it, but if we listened to ourselves we would not be sailors.
Boaters in general, and sailors in particular, are an independent lot. Many will continue to be self taught for that reason. I did it, know it is a bad idea, but realize it will continue to happen, so I figured I would try to help them survive. ;)
After your first experience the rest is just practice. I have been sailing for 56 years and am still learning new things and improving my sailing skills.
Quote from: BobK on October 28, 2010, 10:17:28 AM
After your first experience the rest is just practice. I have been sailing for 56 years and am still learning new things and improving my sailing skills.
Me too! pushing 48 years since my first sail and I intend to keep at it until I get good at it.:)
I survived being self taught, and would not recommend it unless it is the only way to sail. I believe a higher power brought me back from some of those early trips.
Hi Newt,
I've described a few "sailing skills" book at http://www.faster-light.net/remote-access/book-reviews.html#sailing (http://www.faster-light.net/remote-access/book-reviews.html#sailing).
I agree that a good way to learn the basics is through a sailing club that offers courses. Better is ASA or USsail certified courses. Learning from a friend is also OK but be sure they really know what they are doing (quite a few "boat owners" are not great sailors). Sometimes learning from another sailor can be the best if they are a good saillor and a good teacher and can spare the time.
Small lake sailing can be quite forgiving. Coastal sailing in some places or Great Lakes sailing can be very unforgiving. Beginning sailors need to understand and have due respect for such things as weather changes, wind driven waves in open water, navigational hazards, to name a few.
For example, the Woods Hole Channel has quite a few submerged rocks on either side and a very strong current setting boats across the channel. Apparently a few "boat owners" don't understand that aiming at the next buoy without taking bearings off it is not sufficient in that circumstance. I've read that an average of about one boat a week is lost to the rocks every summer (mostly motorboats). This seems obvious enough to an experienced sailor but this is an example of something that could be overlooked by a novice sailor.
Curtis
Its good to see you again Curtis. I have noticed your posts again. Always nice to have a old friend show up. As for channels with strong currents and swells, (esp in opposition to each other) Stay Away!...at least for the first few seasons!
Humility, and accepting that you in a hostile environment that can kill you is important to remember.
All the tips for beginners are good advice, and should definitely be followed. But chances are, they won't.
I know I didn't when I started out. In the real world, it's going to take a few scares and near-disasters to train the new sailor, and drill some sense into him, and chances are it will be mostly luck if he survives his training without any injury or property damage. Perhaps the best we can hope for is for Darwinian principles to come into play, and the novice either learns through fear, is humiliated into leaving the sport, or solves the problem for the rest of us by simply not coming back one day.
I can personally take no credit for surviving my period of indoctrination intact; I was very lucky and was doubly fortunate I had excellent teachers who managed to communicate to me the Zen of safe sailing. After all, any idiot can learn to sail in an afternoon, putting yourself in the right head to go out and face the ocean with the reverence and humility it demands is something else. You can learn skills, judgment only comes from experience.
I knew I had finally gotten it right when I went sailing with a young lady who was totally new to boating. In an effort to get her oriented, I explained aloud every thing I was doing and why I was doing it that way. Her remark will always stay with me;
"You are always looking ahead, aren't you, trying to anticipate anything that might possibly go wrong and making sure you always have a Plan B in place in case it does? I appreciate that you're that way, it makes me feel very secure, but I couldn't enjoy any activity that required so much worry."
After that she always called me "Ready Eddy". She probably would never have been a good sailor, but at least she probably would never talk herself into thinking she could be.
Quote from: newt on October 30, 2010, 09:56:21 AM
Its good to see you again Curtis. I have noticed your posts again. Always nice to have a old friend show up. As for channels with strong currents and swells, (esp in opposition to each other) Stay Away!...at least for the first few seasons!
Humility, and accepting that you in a hostile environment that can kill you is important to remember.
Newt,
The reason I'm on and off on this forum is I get ridiculously busy with work at times.
I've seen a lot of people come and go on the YahooGroups list and here after Kurt started this site. I'm gone from Yahoo after they no longer took just an email address and changed privacy policies. I do miss Larry Bracken, Bob Burgess, and David Barnicoat in particular from that list, and Michael Quiggley who later bought a Beneteau and CaptK himself that bought a Pearson (me thinks, or Bristol?) and is less active here than he used to be.
We still have a great group of sailors here, some experienced and some new at it, and some fine craftsmen. I hope to meet some of the sailors here on the water some time. Though it may not be until after I retire (again) or if I opt for some extended time off.
Curtis
Henry (aka Ready Eddy),
Quote from: HenryC on October 30, 2010, 02:44:37 PM
All the tips for beginners are good advice, and should definitely be followed. But chances are, they won't.
The stories of new sailors around here are comical, in a way.
A sailing instructor that I had the chance to speak to (real old salt, circumnavigated, lived aboard for many years, owned a 43 foot Hershoff ketch) told me a few stories as we were admiring a bent keel and busted up 50 foot hull in the sling. I was wondering aloud how the keel got that way and he knew the story. He summarized the cause as "new sailor with too much money and not enough brains". Sailing in water marked in the charts as 12' and strewn with rocks with his month old 1/2 million dollar Hunter 50, with fin keel and 10 foot draft, he found a new rock that wasn't on the chart. He didn't seem to know that sailing downwind at full speed where the chart said the bottom had many rocks was just below his keel was not a good idea. He somehow thought that if there wasn't an asterisk marking a rock that there couldn't possibly be a rock there. That was in Mystic CT.
I heard of two total losses at Watch Hill RI. Its a well protected harbor with a jetty enclosing it. One brand new sailor with a brand new boat and all the electronic gadgets that one could imagine set a waypoint back to his mooring and didn't realize that the GPS would just follow a straight line right through the jetty, which it did. Another sailor had inexperienced crew (a friend who had never sailed before) at the wheel entering and went into the cabin during this critical move. The crew misheard or misunderstood "leave the mark well to your right" and went well to the right of the mark only to hit a submerged end of the jetty.
Fortunately in these cases it was only property damage. Its no longer comical when injury or death is involved.
The commercial fishing boats are experienced but can be among the worst. A few years back two vessels collided off Nantucket in broad daylight under clear and sunny skies because neither had anyone at the helm or on watch. Both boats sank and two men died.
Every coast guard station keeps records and the local papers here report the trends in anual boater fatalities on record at Coast Guard Chatham and Coast Guard Woods Hole. The average for Cape Cod and the islands (Marthas Vineyard and Nantucket) is about ten a year. Most are commercial fishermen and lobstermen, but some are recreational boats. I only know of one (in many years) that was sailing related, hypothermia on a hobbie that couldn't make it home in high winds. Nationally (last I looked, a few years back) there were 12 sailing related deaths of about 900 boating related deaths. The USCG web page has reports summarizing the statistics.
Its better to be "Ready Eddy".
This discussion started out as "tips for beginning sailors". To summarize, know what you are getting into. Some sailing (small lakes, inland waters) can be quite forgiving and easily handled with a little instruction and limited experience. Some situations are best attempted after gaining more knowledge and experience. I think we've gone way off on a tangient on situations that the begginning sailor asking the question won't be running into.
Curtis
It's amazing how much common sense comes into play, and I say this not to poke fun at anyone's ignorance, we all do it, often without realizing it. Here's a real tip!.
I went sailing with an experienced couple who had been on the water together for years. At the fuel dock, I noted the skipper cleating the spring line on by passing a set of figure eights across the wings of the cleat. I interrupted him and demonstrated the right way--"First, take a turn or two of the bitter end around the stem of the cleat", (the vertical part that is bolted to the deck), "Then", after the line is secured, "do your figure-eights around the cleat wings to keep the hitch from coming undone and to neatly take up the excess line off the deck and dress up the hitch".
"What difference does it make?", he asked.
I explained to him if there was suddenly a great strain on the line, say, because of a sudden wind or a dockside collision, the strain would be taken by the round turns on the cleat upright, not the figure-eights, and he would be able to leisurely undo the figure-eight without having to worry about the knot jamming or getting his hands tangled up in it. He would then be able to gradually release the strain on the line in a controlled fashion, using the friction of the turns on the upright part of the cleat as a brake.
"You're absolutely right", he replied, and pointing out where I was standing, "and make sure you've got your foot INBOARD of the line so in case the cleat fails it doesn't take your ankle with it when it goes over the side!"
Thanks for that tip, Henry. I always took a turn around but never knew why.
Another indispensable tip:
ENJOY IT!! Feel the wind blow your hair, enjoy the salt water (or fresh) spray on your face, fall in love with the feel of the wind moving your boat through the water. I could go on and on but you get the idea. Don't get too bogged down with performance that you loose sight of the reason you started sailing in the first place: FUN.
Bob23
I had a student ask me once how risky sailing was. So I told him the truth - Its extremely dangerous, people die from it - but once you get out of your car and on the boat it is a very safe place to have some fun. Matt
From Mr. John Vigor, at
http://www.goodoldboat.com/reader_services/articles/blackbox.php
"...every boat possesses an imaginary black box, a sort of bank account in which points are kept. In times of emergency, when there is nothing more to be done in the way of sensible seamanship, the points from your black box can buy your way out of trouble. You have no control over how the points are spent, of course; they withdraw themselves when the time is appropriate. You do have control over how the points get into the box: you earn them. For every seamanlike act you perform, you get a point in the black box. Points come in so many ways it would be impossible to list them all. But I can send you in the right direction. Let's say you're planning a weekend cruise down the coast, and time is precious. You have been wondering for some weeks if you ought to haul out the bosun's chair and inspect the masthead fittings. It has been a couple of years since you checked everything up there, but it would mean delaying your departure by an hour, maybe more, should you have to change a shackle or something.
"If you finally give in to the nagging voice inside you and go aloft, you earn a point in the box. If you don't take that trouble, your black box will stay empty. If you sniff the bilges for fumes before pushing the starter button, you'll score a point, just as you will for taking a precautionary reef at nightfall or checking the expiration date on your rocket flares. Thinking and worrying about what could happen is also a good way to earn points - if the wind started blowing into your quiet anchorage at 40 miles an hour and the engine wouldn't start, or whether you should put a couple of reefs in the mainsail before you climb into your bunk, just in case.
"No matter how good your seamanship, there are times when there is nothing left to do but batten down the hatches and pray. If you have a credit balance of points in the box, you'll be all right. People will say you're lucky, of course. They'll say a benign fate let you get away with it. But we know better. That luck was earned, maybe over quite a long period.
"Not that there's any room for complacency. If an emergency drains all the points from your black box, you must immediately set about replacing them by tending to your boat, your crew, and yourself in a seamanlike way and by practicing extra caution for as long as seems right.
"It may seem unfair that you cannot check your credit balance in the black box, but it's just as well. If I knew I had sufficient points to get me through a weekend, I might not bother to go up the mast before setting out. Not knowing keeps us on our toes.
"In practice, however, your conscience will be a good guide. Have you put off changing the engine oil for the umpteenth time? Does the port navigation light still need a new bulb? Be careful. You may be running low on points.
"In the same way, your conscience will tell you when you have credit. You will glow with that quiet sort of confidence that inspires crews and makes for happy voyages."
Quote from: HenryC on November 01, 2010, 03:48:46 PM
It's amazing how much common sense comes into play, [...]
"You're absolutely right", he replied, and pointing out where I was standing, "and make sure you've got your foot INBOARD of the line so in case the cleat fails it doesn't take your ankle with it when it goes over the side!"
This reminds me of two situations that I've been in where nothing bad happenned but there was a lapse in caution.
In one case there was someone sitting on the cabin top on the leaward side. If anything had given holding the mainsheet that person would have taken the full force of the boom. That day we found a clevis pin the had lost the cotter ring and was about to fall off. Had the clevis pin worked its way out just a bit further the boom would have come across. That was on a 43 footer, with a good sized boom. We later found the bent cotter ring on the cabin sole.
The other situation was a teenager that sat up on the cabin top and then poked his head through the mainsheet arrangement to lean over to say something. I explained that I didn't like what he was doing because if a block let loose it might rip his head off. As unlikely as that seemed, I didn't like seeing him take that risk. This was on a 50 foot boat with a three part tackle on the boom and lots of force on those lines. It was also a badly maintained charter boat so things letting go was not too far fetched. A few years later I spoke to someone who crewed on a Newport to Bermuda race (or it might have been Marion to Bermuda). Weather turned stormy and it was a rough race. Another boat had a rigging failure and a crew member was partially decapitated and killed. Their boat got involved over the radio because they had a doctor on board but the situation was hopeless. It made me think of the kid with his head through the mainsheet.
The good news is our boats are smaller than these and there are no lines carrying enough force to tear someone's head off. You still can get hit with the boom. I know a very good teen sailor (now sailing in college) that took a small boom to the head (through no fault of his own) and got a concussion.
[btw - You might wonder "how do you get hit with a boom through no fault of your own?" They were racing 420s in tight quarters near the downwind mark and the boat next to them jibed, hitting him in the head with their boom. Since then he continued to race in close quarters but with a helmet.]
Curtis