I'm planning to modify the swim ladder this winter; people complain about two things; the tube shape makes feet hurt and the bottom rung is not low enough.
I figure that fitting a 2-3" wide piece of 3/4" (maybe thicker) marine grade (teak, ipe) solid wood over the steps and cutting a half circle at each end to fit tightly with the uprights will solve problem #1. Probably attach with U bolts backed by a solid piece of stainless steel. The steps will be slotted a little for grip and sealed within an inch of their lives.
Problem #2 is trickier. I envision a removable "extra step" that is deployed at swim time and hooks over the bottom two rungs. Since wood is what I know how to shape, I plan to make something like this from wood. The above mentioned step covers would be incorporated for the lower portion. An older post shows the difficulty of anything more rope-like for this purpose.
Here's some details;
Two mirror image parts of solid wood, with cutouts to hook over the two lower rungs of the folding stern ladder (when deployed). They have two "feet" (on each side) that sit against the hull transom for stability (there will now be more leverage pushing on the swim ladder than it was designed for, so this will take the pressure off that situation). The lowest rung of the new item will be about 18" lower than the lowest existing rung.
I'm thinking the lowest rung and the other two rungs will be the structure holding the sides together, and will be of relatively thick stock (maybe 1.5") and attached with lag bolts and washers. The new rungs will be close to, but not tight over the existing rungs. The hooked over parts of the uprights would likely otherwise shrink the width of the step too much.
Challenges; the material and nature of the lower structure is still not clear to me. How thick do the uprights need to be? Will it slide into the cockpit storage locker? The wood will be in salt water a few hours a summer, what's the best way to protect it? Will the thing float and make it useless? This has to hold me (#240) and sometimes my somewhat larger sister. The structure needs to be quite strong therefore, despite our buoyancy in water. This structure will be cantilevered below the boat hull, so this is something that worries me.
Any input, or examples, would be welcome.
Great ideas. I'm planning to do the same for #1 this winter as well.
I don't completely understand the way you wish to attach the lower steps--granted I'm a little slow today after getting back from a long trip. I get the outrigger/feet part laying against the transom, to stabilize the step. Would the starboard foot even touch the transom? One may be enough?
Sounds like you're talking a removable bottom step. Why not think about one permanently/semi-permanently mounted?
You could add some weight to the bottom step to keep it sunk.
When I was making improvements on my last C19, I bought a really slick stainless steel telescoping, transom mounted ladder on eBay. It was a four step ladder, that when dropped and extended, provided plenty of down deep step to make boarding easier. It also had a slim profile when raised up on the transom. The steps had black composite flats on them and were easy on the bare feet. The only thing I had to fabricate for it were two SS stand-off feet. The boat was an '82, and it had no ladder at all when I bought it.
I like the idea of adding a "step" to the pipe. But How do you plan on keeping the steps from spinning on the steel tubing. I'm not sure that they notches at each end would just break off when weight is applied. Also will it still be able to flip up with the width of the step?
Billy-
Looks like a simple task, provided you can keep the drill straight or have a jig to assist, to drill through the steps with a small (say a #8) bolt with castle nuts on the bottom to secure the wooden steps.
I'm considering using countersunk SS barrel nuts on top and a flat head SS bolt going through the bottom into the barrel nut with a curved washer facing the bottom of the step. Two nuts/bolts for each step. Nice and clean and can be removed fairly easily for varnishing. Speaking of varnish, you could mix in or sprinkle on a little sand to the top of the step for traction. I suspect that will be needed to keep sure footing?
The question then becomes where to find 1"x3" teak that doesn't cost an arm and a leg.
Rather than using a teak step I put padding around the step. You can purchase the black foam that is used for pipe insulation at any of the big box hardware store's that fits the diameter of the step. This was covered with Sunbrella that matched the sail cover. I simply cut the fabric to the width of the step after turning it under with a seam. Velcro was sewn to either end where it over lapped to keep the cover on.
This gives you a padded step with about a 1 3/4" diameter that feels much better on the feet. I did this two years ago and all still looks and feels good.
Quote from: BobK on September 24, 2010, 12:51:02 PM
Rather than using a teak step I put padding around the step. You can purchase the black foam that is used for pipe insulation at any of the big box hardware store's that fits the diameter of the step. This was covered with Sunbrella that matched the sail cover. I simply cut the fabric to the width of the step after turning it under with a seam. Velcro was sewn to either end where it over lapped to keep the cover on.
This gives you a padded step with about a 1 3/4" diameter that feels much better on the feet. I did this two years ago and all still looks and feels good.
Another great idea from BobK. I was out sailing with the Admiral last Friday and we anchored in a cove to swim. Her comment was "when are you going to do something to that ladder to stop it from hurting my feet". I think I'll copy the Sunbrella covered foam pads and save that expensive teak for bigger and better things.
agreed!
@Salty19: I can't imagine any of adding the extra step that would not be in the way when the ladder folds up, so my plan was something you hook on when swimming and stow under the seat hatch when not needed.
To hook it on, I'm thinking of a structure that sits over the two lower rungs like four wooden hooks (or even a continuous "box" around 3/4ths of the rung), then, as you say, stabilizes with two feet against the transom. This would be stable enough to support a lot of weight out away from the boat's stern, such as the pivoting force of someone stepping on the treads and hanging from the upper rails. When someone is standing on the lowest rung of the new structure, then, the force will be pushing the bottom of the thing in towards the boat. The two hooked rungs will hold firmly to the existing ladder's rungs and cantilever the whole structure, while the stabilizing feet against the transom will prevent the ladder bottom from pivoting too far inward against the boat.
To make things more interesting, I took measurements last weekend, the lowest rung is quite curvy, with a flat center section only 4-5" wide. This is going to make fitting a structure around it somewhat challenging. The uprights also are slightly larger at the bottom. Why should life be easy?
@peterg: I'd rather avoid solutions that mean replacing the existing ladder. Its not easy for me to work under the cockpit seat (read: I don't fit!), and my wife, who fits down there nicely, doesn't do so without a bit of complaining (Don't make me go down there!). Not to mention when such a task comes up the shouted instructions from outside to inside puts some small amount of strain on the relationship. Besides, I think I can finagle at least two new tools out of this project while putatively "saving money" on a new swim ladder.
pbrenton said, probably with a sly smile:
Besides, I think I can finagle at least two new tools out of this project while putatively "saving money" on a new swim ladder.
Now your talking, I have a wood shop that has been completely equipped using that particular philosophy.:)
However, I may not have gotten a good picture of your intentions, but, I keep thinking with these hooks of solid wood that would be cut so that the grain would be stressed to split fairly easily when put under load there may be problems. Additionally, when I look at my last step, anything added to that would be so far below the transom so as not to be able to access it with a brace. Maybe I'm just not seeing it.....
Anyone else with both stern rail and ladder finding that having to climb over the stern rail is hard for some people?
Any solutions to that? Anyone have a ladder off the side rather than off the stern?
Curtis
Curtis- I know they make a simple ladder with hooks on top to go over the side. Just haven't tried them on the Compac.
Quote from: newt on September 27, 2010, 11:24:36 PM
Curtis- I know they make a simple ladder with hooks on top to go over the side. Just haven't tried them on the Compac.
Newt,
They make real fancy ones for bigger boats. Just haven't seen one the right size for a CP23.
Curtis
Quote from: curtisv on September 27, 2010, 11:06:13 PM
Anyone else with both stern rail and ladder finding that having to climb over the stern rail is hard for some people?
Any solutions to that?
Curtis
The Admiral does have trouble with that. She finds it easier to just step around and drop the lifeline gate. If we are both going swimming and remember, we drop it before we go.
Paul-
We may have different ladders, looks like I can add wooden "steplets" with no problem??
I like the temporary bottom step idea. And I like the foam with sunbrella cover idea (how would you keep it from rotating?)
I've rethought my plan and decided to do nothing for the moment. :) We'll see what ya'll come up with.
Curtis, if you can figure out a way to make this happen, you could cut off the stern pulpit cross bar, weld on tangs and add a rear lifeline (to unclip while using the ladder). That's how Island Time is configured. It works pretty well in terms of boarding. You would loose some bar space for a grill or solar panel though.
This is where the Eclipse shines over the older boats. The low transom and plenty of steel to hang onto makes boarding a snap.
Quote from: Salty19 on September 28, 2010, 12:45:02 PM
Curtis, if you can figure out a way to make this happen, you could cut off the stern pulpit cross bar, weld on tangs and add a rear lifeline (to unclip while using the ladder). That's how Island Time is configured. It works pretty well in terms of boarding. You would loose some bar space for a grill or solar panel though.
I looked again and this is looking very promising though rather pricey.
http://www.divendog.com/Gallery.aspx (http://www.divendog.com/Gallery.aspx) available at http://www.defender.com/product.jsp?path=-1|10391|109363|824297&id=731218 (http://www.defender.com/product.jsp?path=-1%7C10391%7C109363%7C824297&id=731218)
Mounted on the side just forward of the stern rail, this would solve the older friends boarding from the dinghy problem as well as make for a very easy boarding ladder for swimming. If I did this it would be stored vertical. Expensive though.
Curtis
I just got a 23/3 last spring, had a great summer with it... think the swim ladder is hopeless. My previous boat was a Catalina 22, with a very simple and very good swim ladder. Catalina Direct will send me one for $123.00. That's my solution... Google them and see.
Richard Evans
Voyage to Ithica
Curtis, I'm not sure if you understood my comment..perhaps you did?
The way my boat is setup, and this is different from other Compacs of this type, is the rear pulpit is two distinct port/starboard assemblies with stern rails seats integrated on each side. They are bolted down like other stern pulpits. The difference is there is no fixed cross bar to connect them. Instead, there is a short version of a lifeline (31" long on my CP19) that connects to two small welded tangs on the inner edges of the stern rails. This aft lifeline can be disconnected and will allow you to step up the ladder, put your foot on the aft deck (right next to the mainsheet block to starboard) then step into the cockpit. So you don't have to go over or around the sternrails. I haved a pic somewhere..I'll find it and post it.
This aft lifeline was not original to the boat, I added it after taking posession. Seemed like it should have been there all along.
Anyway, it makes life a heck of a lot easier to get back onboard-almost as easy as an Eclipse-but not quite.
Mike:
I remember some of those old photos of Island Time. A very sweet boat. The separate stern rails with the seats was what caught my eye. And, although not a close-up, it is visible in your first photobucket, ah, bucket!
Bob23
Quote from: Salty19 on October 26, 2010, 11:13:01 AM
Curtis, I'm not sure if you understood my comment..perhaps you did?
The way my boat is setup, and this is different from other Compacs of this type, is the rear pulpit is two distinct port/starboard assemblies with stern rails seats integrated on each side. They are bolted down like other stern pulpits. The difference is there is no fixed cross bar to connect them. Instead, there is a short version of a lifeline (31" long on my CP19) that connects to two small welded tangs on the inner edges of the stern rails. This aft lifeline can be disconnected and will allow you to step up the ladder, put your foot on the aft deck (right next to the mainsheet block to starboard) then step into the cockpit. So you don't have to go over or around the sternrails. I haved a pic somewhere..I'll find it and post it.
This aft lifeline was not original to the boat, I added it after taking posession. Seemed like it should have been there all along.
Anyway, it makes life a heck of a lot easier to get back onboard-almost as easy as an Eclipse-but not quite.
My CP23 stern pulpit is one peice and so there is no rear gate.
Yours may be custom or modified.
Curtis
Yes, it's custom. Thought I would at least toss the idea out if you're inclined to modify it..
Here's a pic of the arrangement.
(http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z290/yamaholic_mcarp/Island%20Time/DSC01616.jpg)
Very nice. I have a solar panel on the part that would get cut away. I mount the barbeque grill on there when I need it.
I like the boarding ladder over the side but haven't found one that I would like to install and would be reasonably priced.
The existing ladder works for me. Works for the Admiral. Works great for the kids (now in their 20s). Not viable for some older guests who might otherwise go for a swim with us. A definite candidate for a better solution if I can figure out a better solution.
Thanks for the suggestion and the photo. Beautiful boat you've got there.
Curtis