does anyone have an opinion re: the Tiller Tamer" ??
thanks
tom
If it's the 'line from cleat to tiller to cleat I don't like it.
Two of my friends like it but find it awkward to use, and looks horrible when not in use and it's just another few screw holes in the tiller and/or cockpit combing to deal with.
I use a stick that can be fitted to one of either side, leaving the other side open and not blocked.
But both methods are mechanical and don't use juice. My two cents.(http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh299/1930fordroadster/1de0929a619a0cb8da587b0e645ee695-2.jpg)
skip.
Yeah, skip it right. I tried one. It was not that easy to use and in the way.
That stick skip talks about is the forespar TFP tiller extender (19-32" adjustable). I've got the same one to be installed on a 19. He's got plenty of pictures of it somewhere else on a recent post.
The debate will always continue on the best "cruise control", There was another post about it a few months back if I recall. Some better info may be in there.
Tom, my tiller tamer works great. Sure, it's screwed to the top of the tiller- right where you can get access to it. My 23 came with it and I didn't remove it. There are no additional screws on the coaming. I just cleat it off to the stern cleats.
Someone makes a unit that is nicer than the Davis but I don't remember who it is. Sorry. I also have a tiller extension I use it for a...tiller extension.
Bob23..my 2 cents also. Keep the change!
http://www.tillerwatch.com/
http://www.blumhorst.com/potterpages/Photopoint/0005/cajun-tiller-tamer.htm)
http://www.cansail.com/
Tom, these are three things that were discussed when I asked the same question. If you go to the "23" section go down to "questions from an initial sail" and you can find the discussion on each.
As it is, I went with just using a telescoping tiller extension. I don't have the coamings boxes, just adjust and drop it on the seat/coaming. rubber ball stays in place as long as there is a little weather helm to hold it. Gives me that 20-30 seconds I need. I'm sure coaming boxes better, lock it in both directions.
I do kind of like the one that fits in the same socket as the tiller extension because it doesn't leave anything extra on the tiller.
I think I've thrown a couple cents into this conversation before but here goes again...
I have both the Davis tiller tamer:
(http://www.defender.com/large/613015_l.jpg)
And the Tiller Watch:
(http://www.tillerwatch.com/mainpic.jpg)
I only use one, the Tiller Watch. But I recommend neither.
The tiller tamer is big and klunky and not readily removable from your tiller, where the tiller watch slips into a socket so when not in use you can just put it away. I like the tiller watch's use of shock cord. If you set it just right, it does a good job.
In my opinion, the best tiller tamer (barring a tiller pilot), is the cajun tiller tamer.
(http://blumhorst.com/potterpages/Photopoint/0005/0001.jpg)
http://blumhorst.com/potterpages/Photopoint/0005/cajun-tiller-tamer.htm (http://blumhorst.com/potterpages/Photopoint/0005/cajun-tiller-tamer.htm)
Just a length of nylon dock line from a stern cleat, wrapped around the tiller handle 3 times and back to the other stern cleat. It actually works real well, easily adjustable, requires no permanent installation and you probably already have on your boat! Try it out. I used it a lot before I bought a "real" tiller tamer, and now that I have a "real" tiller tamer, I still go to the cajun tiller tamer if I need something real quick.
One major caveat of the cajun tiller tamer, It's brutal on your tiller's finish! If used regularly IT WILL MARK AND/OR REMOVE YOUR TILLER'S VARNISH. Use at your own risk. I make no warranties regarding your tiller's finish, neither expressed nor implied 8)
--Greg
We installed a Tiller-Tamer last season because we thought it would help keep the boat heading the way we intended for short periods of time to adjust something or simply take a break from steering. What we found was that it works for very short periods of time when the wind is steady. Steady winds don't exist or at least they bypass our lakes in Madison. We like the simplicity of use and it does allow you to let go for a few seconds, but it isn't going to hold the line. The only time we have been glad to have it is when the winds are light and we can glide along with just an occasional adjustment to the tiller with a toe. (The Admirals favorite sailing!)
My biggest complaint is the line is ALWAYS in the way. If you want to check the rudder or play with the all-powerful kicker you will quickly come to give it a few new names.
(http://i613.photobucket.com/albums/tt211/greene2108/DSC01051.jpg)
Mike and Admiral B
Greg- what if you are on a tack with weather helm, and you adjusted your bungies to hold constant opposition... does it stay on course then? I have not found anything that really works except a good sheet to tiller... but they sure mess up your cockpit.
Kinda sorta. That's what I meant by "if you set it just right". If you have it set just right, and the winds are steady or varying just a bit, the shock cord (or bungie) will hold pretty well and even make minor adjustment on it's own. If you picture you're on a starboard tack and holding the tiller to windward (whenever I do this I have to sit at my desk and pretend to hold my tiller in my left hand and the gunwale in my right. My wife ask what I'm doing...I say "don't ask), if the wind picks up a bit the weather helm wants to steer the boat more to starboard (I think...now I'm getting myself confused). As the weather helm increases so does the pressure on the tiller, but in the opposite direction. The shock cord "gives" just a little to let the boat steer a little into the wind. As the wind loses it's effect on the sails, the boats slows ever so slightly, the weather helm decreases and the shock cord brings the tiller back to windward, turning the boat back to a better angle to the wind where the boat can accelerate again. It's a vicious cycle but not very pronounced...nor is it the fastest way to get from here to there.
On a trip from Key Largo to Marathon we were on a port tack for three days. The final leg from Long Key to Marathon we did out on the ocean (inside the reef) on Hawk's Channel. Once I dialed in the Tiller Watch, we went for almost three hours heading relatively in the right direction. Wow, now I'm starting to sound like the Tiller Watch spokesman (Charlie Smith of TillerWatch.com, if you sell any Tiller Watches because of me I expect a commission ;) )
Actually, like I said before, I personally don't recommend it. If you've got a long way to go, are far from shore and not in a hurry to get where you're going it eventually works pretty well. Other than that, all the tinkering and tweaking distracts me and makes me nuts. Maybe it's time for my OCD ... OH COOL! LOOK! A Squirrel!
Just one more thing. With the stock rudder blade, the Tiller Watch was unusable...just too much weather helm. The foiled rudder blade helped a lot!
--Greg
I have them all, under perfect conditions they all work , under less than perfect conditions none will work for more than a few seconds on my CP 16, of course weighting in at 220 lbs. at 6'2 is moving a lot of dead weight around on a small boat.............we all have this dream of setting the self-steering and standing on the fore deck with spy glass looking for the inlet to heaven..........Phil
Ah...yes, Phil. Everyone's dream. A Raymarine ST1000+ Tiller Autopilot & S100 Wireless Autopilot Remote.
(http://www.defender.com/images/250145.jpg) (http://www.defender.com/images/255632.jpg)
And for $766.98 you can make your dream come true! ;)
--Greg
Oh I'd love an St-1000 with 'SeaTalk' so it could be tied into my Raymarine chartplotter and St-40 BiData unit.
I could do it if I purchased a small gas driven generator and tow it behind in a dinky with a long extention cord. How cool that would be. I actually could of had one of these units found at a Yacht Club Flee Market sale a few years back. $100 bucks. But I would need a forklift battery on board.
Just to be safe the power management question usually is not a problem because so little of my battery power is used. You never know when your going to be stuck out there for a couple of days for a weather window or some other reason. But go ahead and use the battery that's what it's on board for. I have the stuff on board, but not turned on.
I always think of my dad as a youngster on the schooner he eventually purchased. Becalmed 8 days in the Golf of Mexico. While hammering the dog out of the anchor chain the anchor chain broke and wrapped around dad's arm, compound fracturing it. The schooner had no auxiliary, radios were rare, as was other boat traffic. The only entertainment on board was a crank-up phonograph with one 78 rpm platter. Red sails In The Sun Set. You just never know. The Army set it crook-it the Navy re-broke it and set it straight. Dad had a destine for the Army and that song.
Life is funny. skip.
skip.
I have the TillerLock (and ST2000+) on my 23 and it works well. I tied the line to the rear stanchions and didn't bring it very far up the tiller so it is still out of the way.
Shawn
Skip, I just knew you'd balk at that....it's all a matter of preference. If you don't want it or can't manage your power, don't buy it.
We all understand you're the minimalist/purists sailor, but a forklift for your battery? A generator in a dinghy? ...Really?
Sometimes I think you just like the sight of your own green text...
I would like to propose a variation of the Cajun model that would involve the addition of some surgical tubing on the leeward side for tension control. It would maintain tension to keep the tiller tightly gripped but not effect the fast holding of the rope part to windward (assuming normal weather helm). It would also allow easy release of tension when an adjustment would be needed, and minimise the friction that causes the wear and tear on the varnish job as described above by Greg.
As one who has done a great deal of singlehanding, I can say that a tiller pilot has been my best crew, and actually hasn't been a power consuming problem for me.
Think about it Skip -
You can turn it on and off at will
It won't criticize your sail trim or boat handling
It won't consume any of you beer or sardines
It won't relate those embarrassing stories of what went wrong earlier in the day
And reason #1 - it won't begrudge you your political commentary
Ron
"and actually hasn't been a power consuming problem for me."
Yup, the nav lights (non-LED) use more power then the autopilot.
Shawn
Quote from: kchunk on January 29, 2010, 01:49:46 PM
Ah...yes, Phil. Everyone's dream. A Raymarine ST1000+ Tiller Autopilot & S100 Wireless Autopilot Remote.
(http://www.defender.com/images/250145.jpg) (http://www.defender.com/images/255632.jpg)
And for $766.98 you can make your dream come true! ;)
--Greg
HONEY, Where is the checkbook?
I wonder how long that remote would last on a sailboat? Does it float? Is is saltwater proof? Heck, I still misplace my tv remotes...the last thing I want on my yacht is a dang remote! But I do like the Autohelm..a friend has one and besides being a bit noisy, it does the job. But it's not as noisy as my wife is sometimes. I didn't just say that, did I?
Bob23
kchunk your right there. -->"Sometimes I think you just like the sight of your own green text..." Thanks I had a chuckle on that one. I do talk too much and I do relish laying down those sometime outrageous and knee jerk reactions. It's just fun.
skip. No offence taken.
Skip, deep down under all that ice and snow, and that walrus mustache, you're a good man. And you take a jab just as well as you dole them out. Sure it was a cheap shot...but I have to admit, I had a couple chuckles over it myself. :D
Brothers, only family can get away with this stuff! I also like the change in color and green happens to be my favorite!
Bob23
I have one of those thingys I will pull it out of my boat and sell it for ONLY 500 dolla. To tell you the truth I don't use it. Niles- I do walk to the front of my CP-23 and scan the harbor with my binocs, as well as put the fenders out and get a bite to eat before I get into the marina. I am telling you guys- sheet to tiller is what you are looking for...:)
One of the benefits of the tiller tamer or cansail that you may be missing is how it helps out when fast tacking single handed. Few people regularly tack up a narrow passage at all let alone single handed. Most fire up the outboard when headed to windward in a narrows.
What the tiller tamer provides is the ability to jam the tiller over to leaward and attend to the sheets, then bring the tiller over center again and either trim sails or repeat the process immediately if in a really tight spot.
As an autopilot or self-steering device the tiller tamer, cansail, or lashed tiller leave a lot to be desired. It works well to windward but the tiller tamer slips if the wind and therefore weather helm is strong. In a strong wind or off the wind a bit lashing the tiller is better since it won't slip. This doesn't work well further off the wind, such as a beam reach and even less so downwind. I don't have a good solution for this on my CP23.
Curtis
ps - been inactive in this forum for a long time.
Good conversation, as usual I get a lot from you guys no matter the color of your.....type face. I installed a Simrad 10 last fall and really luv it as I'm almost always out there alone with my SOSpenders. Beam reach, ice-tea, sun bouncing off Sanura's tanbark and feet up watching Gasparilla Pass come into view. What more Lord?
Curtis:
I love tacking my 23 in narrow spaces...how are we gonna build confidence and skills? I also love sailing off of and up to my mooring, unassited my Miss Nissan. Although she does have her place on my yacht.
Newt: Do you use sheet to tiller? Can you post or email a photo? "Inquiring minds want to know."
Bob23
Bob- are you on Sailfar.net? I did a tutorial in the "Tips" section, but yes I believe a properly set up sheet to tiller is a better autopilot than any big ones which you pay thousands of dollars for. It's forte downwind in light air- which a monitor can't keep on course- because basically your jib is your sensing vane.
My little compac I find sails differently with me on the bow as apposed to the stern. The Tiller stops that are talked about in this thread I find take me off course if I go out to put the fenders away. I can keep a course with a auto tiller, but it uses too much juice for my liking. Sheet to tiller is the only thing that seems to work for me.
I am on Sailfar but haven't visited it for a long time. I've been too busy making trouble here! I'll check it out, Newt.
I've been interested in self steering ever since I rigged my Seapearl to steer a course. Of course, with that light displacement boat, the conditions had to be right but the mizzen sail added a lot more control.
Hmm...I wonder if a 23 can be set up as a yawl rig? I suppose the main would have to be moved forward a bit or a bigger jib added...just me thinking again.
Bob23
Quote from: jamato on February 16, 2010, 04:22:17 PM
Good conversation, as usual I get a lot from you guys no matter the color of your.....type face. I installed a Simrad 10 last fall and really luv it as I'm almost always out there alone with my SOSpenders. Beam reach, ice-tea, sun bouncing off Sanura's tanbark and feet up watching Gasparilla Pass come into view. What more Lord?
Paul
Where do you sail out of?
Ron
I agree that a mizzen helps simplify the process, but your 23 will still do a great job self steering! My project this winter is to add a drifter for mine, and perhaps a Bimini.
[/quote]
Paul
Where do you sail out of?
Ron
[/quote]
I sail out of Placida, FL half way between Tampa & Ft. Myers but all over with my trailer.
Paul,
I sail out of Peace River. Boat is on trailer just now, but as weather warms I'll launch her and be ready for some harbor cruising. Perhaps we could hook up in Pelican Bay sometime, though it would have to be during the week as I work weekends.
Ron
I GOT ONE RECENTLY VERY EASY TO INSTALL AND SEEMS TO WORK QUITE WELL. I WOULDN'T DEPEND ON IT IN HIGH WINDS BUT JUST A NICE DAY I THINK IT WORKS JUST FINE. I ALSO TRIED THE CAJUN TILLER TAMER WHICH IS A ROPE LOOP AROUND YOUR TILLER AND IT WORKS BUT NOT AS GOOD AS THE TILLER TAMER .
(http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh299/1930fordroadster/1de0929a619a0cb8da587b0e645ee695-2.jpg)
The 'other' tiller minder. A cockpit socket on port and starboard sides. Leaves room for sitting along side the tiller.
Remember control key held down and + key tapped makes the image larger to view. Control down and - key tapped puts it back the way it was.
I cannot figure out how to enlarge this picture...sorry.
skip.
I had a tiller tamer and upgraded my line to dyneena braid - a racing specific nearly zero stretch line , Stronger than steel
per pound and it held MY CATALINA 22 swingkeel helm more than double the holding power of the suppliedstock line.
So - when needed I could change sails, hit the john ( head ) , change cd's in the stereo, and take down the mainsail before docking.
However - I want to try the tiller lock because it does not require hand adjusting the tension dial to lock or vary the resistance; just
a pull upwards of the tiller.
Also - the control lines take up quite abit less room in the cockpit .
We've been using the Tiller Stay on HideAway for years and although it was not strong enough to handle the boat in higher winds with the main sail in the boom it did give us a break. Now that we have loose-footed the main sail Tiller Stay will keep us on course for long periods of time.
here is the link http://www.mv.com/ipusers/whale/tillerstay/index.html
Shows a pic of a Compac 19 - We have set ours up the same way on our 23. The spring seems to allow the boat to handle wind shifts and then return to the original course unaided.