Hello Forum! I am the latest owner of a 1987 Compac 27 HIN #ABV00058B787 which I believe makes it hull #58. I purchased it up in the Thousand Islands in NY last sept & had it trucked to my home marina at the other end of Lake Ontario where it has been sitting on it's cradle ever since. Needless to say I am anxiuos for summer to get here and the getting her launched.
For this forum I picked the name cdreamIII as this is my 3rd sailboat all of which were models that began with the letter "C". The first was a 1981 Compac 16 which was a great little boat that shrank in size proportional to the increase in size of my kids. The second is a Catalina 25 which is lacking some of the amenities that the first mate (and myself) had on our wish list. I hadn't planned on purchasing "Trinitas" but the price was right and we thought we might not get another opportunity to own something this classy again.
Right now I have guttted her so to speak,- removed all the cushions and as much interior stuff that I could and brought it home for cleaning & refinishing and am also trying to go thru all the systems that I can while it is covered with snow.
First question...I need to replace the waste holding tank. The original 7gal aluminum tank had some corrosion that I was able to poke a hole in with a screwdriver. What would be a good replacement size? 7 gal doesn't seem very big especially with 3 females for a crew.
First, congratulations on your new boat.
Second, have you looked into composting toilets, as an alternative to the standard marine holding tank variety? Here are some interesting links:
- www.svsarah.com/Sarah/ewcompostingheadinstall.htm
- www.sailsarana.com/FAQ.htm#why
- www.airheadtoilet.com
- www.natureshead.net
I've not used any of them, but the concept is interesting. Environmentally sound and potentially much less mess. No pumpouts. No through hull fitting. Good capacity.
A larger holding tank is definitely in order, if you really plan to use it. I'm sure some people with y-valves don't. However, when I get back into a boat I may at least try the "Wag Bag" approach.
Basically, these bags carry a powder that solidifies and treats the waste to the point that they can be disposed of in any garbage. You can seal them up and put them in a tight-lidded 5 gallon bucket while on board. Back on shore you can throw them in the marina's dumpster. That way your boat doesn't have to become a sewer system. Maybe hard to convince the crew that this is the best way, of course (and in actually practice I may find that it isn't the best way!). But I like the idea of keeping the boat "sweet."
Thanks for the links. I hadn't thought of the composting alternative. Too bad they are so expensive ($850 & up). All I need right now is a tank and a new section of hose which will run about $100 leaving something in the boat account for other stuff. If I was replacing the head also it would definately be somthing to consider.
Congratulations on the new boat. I'm sure you will enjoy it.
When I purchased Pooka it had a porta-potti on board. That was the first refit.
Found the tank here. (http://www.tank-depot.com/product.aspx?id=1168)
Best of luck and if you have any questions specific to the 27 I'll offer what little I know.
Bill
Bill, I did a search of the forum & found the posting on your installation & noticed that you installed a macerator pump. My boat does not have any pump (manual or electric) for the waste tank. Is it something that I should add? Is the 9 gal tank you installed large enough or do you wish it was larger?
Thanks
Bille
Billie --
I hear that some boats today only have the waste tank hooked up to the pump-out. However, what has been common practice is to have a y value from your waste tank, with one direction going overboard (when your out past 3 miles; powered by a hand or macerator pump, and the other to the pump-out). Designing and installing a marine toilet requires knowledge of your craft and design. I'd definitely check with Compac and see if they will provide the design they use when installing marine toilets. I'd also check out some "authoritative" books like "good old boat" which contain a wealth of knowledge of how to maintain and/or upgrade your craft. Since Bill has already experienced this upgrade, I'm certain he can be a wealth of information.
doug
Congratulation for your "nearly new" (from my perspective) CP-27. Luckily, mine had all tanks replaced a few years ago. I remain a big fan of traditional holding tanks with Y valves. A macerator sure sounds nice. My holding tank has 15 gallons, I think, and it seems very generous; I think 10 gallons would be fine. Let us hear how things go with your upgrade work!
Congrats on your new boat. We boat a 1988 last spring and spent a ton of time on it last season. We are in the midwest and snowbound as well.
I am in the process of replacing both my head and holding tank. The 7 gallon one is not enough. It seems like we were having to go to the pump out every week or so during the season. My tank was well corroded and I found a small leak on the bottom side late in the season.
From my measurements a 13 or 15 gallon should fit on the starboard bulkhead were the old tank was located. I anticipate having to relocate the tank fittings and fabricate some brackets to support it in that position.
I am planning on putting a Lavac head in. This will allow me some interesting plumbing options, including the ability to pump out my tank with the pump for the head.
Keep us posted on your progress.
Bille,
Does your plumbing look something like this now? (On your boat #10 would be a manual pump)
(http://www.westmarine.com/images/wa/WA_Sanitation5.gif)
If so, all you are doing with a macerator is replacing the manual operation with an electric operation. The configuration shown is how I set mine up.
Here is a link to some very good general info about marine sanitation plumbing. click here. (http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/westadvisor/10001/-1/10001/Heads-Holding-Tanks.htm)
How and where you use it is the bigger issue. When we cruised the Sea of Cortez for a month it got used regularly. But during the summer when are on Lake Dillon it never gets used. The marina has a pump out.
As for size, 7 is too small, 9 works, barely, for my wife and I. You have three females. There isn't enough room in that locker for the size you need.
What Chad just wrote sounds like the way to go. You will need to relocate the fittings and get creative with mounting the tank.
Also no matter what you decide plan on replacing all the hoses. That's the cheapest and best way to avoid any future problems and odors.
Post some photos of the current configuration.
How's your bilge holding up?
Bill
"
"The original 7gal aluminum tank had some corrosion that I was able to poke a hole in with a screwdriver. What would be a good replacement size? 7 gal doesn't seem very big especially with 3 females for a crew."
Why not cut a plastic tank and glue that together. Worked very well on Dad's boats.
If aluminum is the choice better use a marine grade stock of 4mm, 6mm, 8mm, and 10 mm plate.
Suggest 5086 or 6082 or 6061. Here is a picture of 5086. Almost 100% of this tub. OK some aluminumbronze for isolated fuel lines, stainless steel, and a few ton of teak, bondo [mudd], and Algrip paint.
(http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh299/1930fordroadster/PJBoat.jpg)
Just one of the few tubs I helped put together. She sits here at about 104 U.S. ton. Takes about 10 months to build.
See those prop tunnels? Me and my partner assembled them and pushed them up in to the hull frames, taced into place and the welders came in behind us and welder her up.
Lets see. 64,000 U.S. Gallon diesel, makes it's own fresh water, holds 35,000 U.S. Gallon of grey and black water. Treat and dump it's own waste. Two 6 cyl Deere Gen packs, can be plugged into any voltage/wattage found in the world. Hot tub, so she's basically a floating cathouse.
Palmer Johnson Yachts World sells these for about $44 million to end user. Palmer Johnson Yachts/Sturgeon Bay, Wisconsin gets about $18 million to build it. The owner pays about $1 million a year to maintain it.
Anybody here want to pay the dock fee for this 150 foot Sport Yacht? Tiger Woods bought one. So did Evana Trump. One of her engines blew-up. Had to cut through the decks to R&R it on warranty.
Right now PJ has a 207 footer and 170 footer on order. But 500 were laid off with the induction of Obama and 170 hired back at $2 less per hour. Just had another lay-off Friday. My boss told me I was highly over paid before being laid-off at $11.05/hour, but I made about 20 hours OT/week.
skip.
Skip said
See those prop tunnels? Me and my partner assembled them and pushed them up in to the hull frames, taced into place and the welders came in behind us and welder her up.
LOL,You must be one of those guys I used to cuss just before I sent my new helper to the rod oven to get me a half dozen "gap" rods. Another of my early careers, steel though, offshore oilfield equipment.
Bill,
There is a "Y" valve, with only one line attached which went to the waste tank. The second line going to the overboard discharge gate valve is missing & the handles tapped so that they could not be in the wrong position. I suspect with the boat being in the 10000 islands & canada with a "no discharge" law, it was a quick fix to comply with regulations. There was no discharge pump. Being on Lake Ontario, an overboard discharge is not likely to happen.
I am uncomfortable though with the thru hull with the tapped handle. It is just too much of an accident/sinking waiting to happen. I'm thinking I should remove the thru hull & glass it over. Any thoughts?
Eventually I would like to do some "cruising" around the lake, probably no longer than a week or 2 with most overnights tied up at a marina.
This weekend I will go up, brush the snow off, do some measuring & take some pictures. My bilge is dry, but it also has not been in the water for over a year. The fiberglass on the bottom is "detached" from the top of the keel and there are what looks like some vent holes drilled in it. I'll get some pictures of that also.
Bille
Check out my post about bilge reconstruction.
http://cpyoa.geekworkshosting.com/forum/index.php?topic=2337.0 (http://cpyoa.geekworkshosting.com/forum/index.php?topic=2337.0)
Will hold off further comments about your plumbing until there are some pictures.
brackish, Gaps? We don't leave no stink'n gaps!
If I can push my little fat finger between the 'tube' and the frame we'll consider that to be a good fit.
AFTER ALL were just making boats.
I never met a wire welder that couldn't fill any gap I left. We don't even need to pre warm our wires.
And when pulling the tunnel up with chain jacks and dogs and slamming her in to place with wedges and dogs believe me, we can impose our will on unwilling aluminum.
It's a lot of fun. skip.
Quote from: skip on January 21, 2010, 01:21:16 PM
brackish, Gaps? We don't leave no stink'n gaps!
If I can push my little fat finger between the 'tube' and the frame we'll consider that to be a good fit.
ROTFLOL, Yep, you're that guy.
Wire very slow to make it into the offshore platform construction. Most oil company customers wrote it out of the specs, particularly for piping and pressure vessels. A lot of it was done outside, and the customers were afraid that the shield gas would blow away creating porosity, a valid concern. Consequently it was SAW (submerged arc) wherever we could and SMAW (stick) with rods from the rod oven when we couldn't. That steel didn't move as easily as the aluminum but with bigger dogs, wedges, jacks and hammers, anything was possible.....
I did enjoy it. Most days you could step back at the end of the day and see what you had accomplished. Later on, in management, that often became difficult.
Today was a beautiful day up here (40 deg & sunny) for Jan and I was able to get a few pictures of both the bildge and waste plumbing set-up. I have already removed and disposed of the waste tank but you can see the impression in the sound insulation of where it was mounted. To the right is the thru hull for the head sink drain. The waste thru hull is on the bottom with the raw water intake for the head just to the left of that. At the top is the "Y" valve which is "frozen" in one position. It almost looks like someone put some epoxy in it to keep it from being able to shift it. The waste thru hull valve had electrical tape wrapped around the handle to keep it from turning with no hose connecting it to the y valve.
I brought a box that I made up to represent a 15 gal tank. It was approx 14 x 17 x 20 and turned out to be about as big as I would go if I were to mount it where the original tank was. Anything bigger and the plumbing gets really tight. One other size limiting note....the tank has to have one side small enough to fit thru the narrow side locker hatch which is approx 14 1/2".
(http://i838.photobucket.com/albums/zz310/cdream_01/135.jpg)
Here are 2 pictures of my bildge, one looking forward & one looking aft showing the electric blidge pump behind a board that is calked in place. I pulled the intake for the manual pump out of the way (normally it is just behind the elec pump) to get a better view of the bildge.
(http://i838.photobucket.com/albums/zz310/cdream_01/133.jpg)
This one shows the forward section of the bildge. The fiberglass has "pulled" away the base and flexes when pushed. There are also acouple of small holes in it which would allow bildge water to get under it.
(http://i838.photobucket.com/albums/zz310/cdream_01/132.jpg)
Bille
Cool! Pictures of her innards. First let me say. I have a Portapotty. This is why I have a Hills Brother Coffee can on a bridle and light line...all purpose can. Off load fluids, shock absorber at dock side or anchor, brings on water to wash the decks and dog house, and de-soaps as well.
The old waste water tank imprinted in the sound deadening and a replacement tank sized
14" x 17" x 20" = 4,760 cu in divided by [12" x 12" x 12"] = 1,728 cu in = 2.75 cu ft so
2.75 cu ft x 7.48 gal/cu ft = 20.6 gallon tank weighing...20.6 x 8.33 lb / gallon = 171.6 lb when full.
I don't know this Com-Pac well enough so let me ask is there a plywood bulkhead between the birth and the storage compartment under the settees? My CP-19 is wide open and that makes for a handy means of egress of stale 'closet' air. And ventilation at night sitting on the hook with the settees [held open by springs] open and allowing for a breeze. Ah heaven! Right?
Anyway, that pesky old "Y" ball valve? Put some heat to it and some KROIL penetrating oil down the tube and work it. Hard.
Might have to soak a few days. Put the hurt to it.
Put a hose or cap on that valve coming up from the bottom. What is that?
Just a minute my computer is shutting down. OK now the SOB has restarted...I don't know why it does this.
cdreamIII Writes "Here are 2 pictures of my bilge, one looking forward & one looking aft showing the electric bilge pump behind a board that is caulked in place."
It's good that the grey paint in removed so that doesn't get sucked up into the pump. I would not worry about the small holes allowing some water to 'get' on top of the poured cement keel weight. So what? How much water goes down there? A quart a summer?
To seal it up mix up some very thin West System Epoxy and pour that over the entire bilge top. Let it soak in.
(http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh299/1930fordroadster/4889_111366911097_601726097_2817056.jpg)
I plugged my electric pump discharge tube into my hand pump discharge tube using a spliced in "T" fitting down stream of the hand pump. That way the electric uses the same 'dump' out the scupper in the transom. And won't syphon back into anything. No new holes.
P.S. See all that wiring from the other skipper just helter skelter laying all about? I'd take a few rolls of PVC electric tape or shrink tubing and an afternoon and tidy that rats nest up a bit. Just looks nicer. Make you happier, when you get around to it later. N.B.D.
skip.
Bille,
Just a couple quick thoughts as we are leaving soon, will comment further when we get back from the USVI's.
Your pump is not in the lowest part of the bilge. If it were mine I'd move it. And the bilge should be corrected IMHO. Allowing water to leak down between the concrete and the fiberglass can't be good. Imagine what freeze thaw could do in a few years. It aint easy but doable.
As far as the sanitation is concerned you have a blank slate. All the important parts are there, mainly the thru hulls. You just need to decide which system you want to use. This link shows the different possibilities, http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/westadvisor/10001/-1/10001/Heads-Holding-Tanks.htm (http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/westadvisor/10001/-1/10001/Heads-Holding-Tanks.htm)
Scrap that Y valve, their comparitively cheap. Is the intake dedicated to the head or does it provide raw water to the engine? Just curious.
Here are a couple shots of mine during the install, the final is cleaner but basically plumbed the same. All the freash water lines have been replaced and rerouted.
(http://bmiller1959.smugmug.com/Other/Com-Pac/IMG0771/184294788_hBU9D-M.jpg)
(http://bmiller1959.smugmug.com/Other/Com-Pac/IMG0772/184294798_fYsjh-M.jpg)
Note the bottom line, it goes directly into the top of holding tank. The line into the bottom of the Y comes from the bottom of the tank. Right top of the Y goes into the top of the macerator, left top of the Y goes to deck pump out. The small line coming out of the macerator goes to the waste thru hull, a bushing takes care of that.
Hope this helps a little, I'll try to check in if we find wifi.
Bill