On my buddies 19 the Tabernacle screws pulled out of some rotten wood when we went to put the mast up. This is a sailor who never cover's up his boat in the winter and lets the water creep into the cracks and freeze and expand. Opening up the cracks larger for a bigger water retention problem. Apparently he "don't care". A common problem to be sure..
So off we ran to the Ace Hardware store and bought four machine screws, finishing washers, acorn nuts and flat washers and a 3 or 4 or ? oz bottle of Marine-Tex 2 part epoxy. Not the smallest and not the biggest. Mix all of it at once to be sure of a proper ratio of resign to hardener.
I drilled clean through the cabin where the screws pulled out. One hole went through the cabin light but the light cover, covered the nut up so no one can see it. The other three machine screw holes landed around the compression post.
I filled the voids and holes up with Marine-Tex and pushed the screws through the finishing washers and the Tabernacle and into the cabin where my helper put the flat washers and acorn nuts on. [The machine screws had to loose a few threads for a good acorn nut fit.] Looked 'factory' when we were done. Additionally some 3-M 5200 slow set [the three day stuff] was applied to the entire bottom side of the Tabernacle.
Four hours later we were sailing. And all that cured up over night. That was two years ago. Get those screws to length and the nuts on before the Marine-Tex starts to cure. Dry fit everything first.
Let me add the tabernacle has very little to do once the mast is up and all the standing rigging has been run. Generally it is not a structural part. Aside from acting like a 'footing' for the base of the mast the actual load imparted on the mast is transmitted to the hull via the rig so really, really thinking that the tabernacle holds up the mast or is used to transmit the forces from the sail to the hull is a little too much. Hence four little wood screws from the factory is quite enough for the first few years. And careful 'look~sees' reveal that the mast actually sits on the heads of the four wood screws with the finishing washers around the screw's shank sitting on the tabernacle.
skip.
"Teak don't rot" and it is not teak under the mast and above the compression post glassed into the cabin roof. It is plain-o-plywood, I'm not sure it is even Marine plywood having water proof glue used in it laminate.
And as stated before, with zero core used in any of the Com-Pac boats only these 'hard points' see water and rot. No big deal, and shouldn't be bent out of shape over this. Fill it and ignore it, grind it out and replace it. She ain't gonna sink. Skipper's choice.
skip.
Balsa; like on one of my favorite sailing boats, Hinterhoeller Nonsuch, Ultra's
Deck and up balsa core. I still like 'em.
skip.
Does the cp16 have wood under it's Tabernackle? or...
Sure she has a plywood hardpoint under the tabernacle, oh about 6" square? Best guess. If you carefully look I'll bet you can see or feel the 'bump' where it is glassed in to the cabin's top.
Or by unscrewing the four wood screws you'll be able to 'stick the tank' to determine the depth of the glass and wood. Wood ought to be about 1/2" thick. No more.
If the wood screws fail and the tabernacle flops about, two ways to go. Or do both.
Drill clean through and nut and bolt. Or epoxy fill the area of the stripped holes and fill-in. Then glue the tabernacle down on this right over the top and screw back down.
Which ever use lots of 3-M 5200 slow set.
skip.
Thanks skip, just thought I would ask, before I really needed to know. Boat is in the slip, wife and I are enjoying our 2nd season of sailing. The 2nd season is so much more fun than the first, if you get my drift...grin!
Nothing like a well sorted vessel Captain cajun and a seasoned crew.
Have a blast.
skip.
I through-bolted the mast step on my CP-23 as well. However, after some additional research, I'm thinking of removing the nuts and washers inside the cabin and going back to the original setup.
The problem is that if you are dismasted, the mast may act as a huge lever and will pull the mast step off the cabin top. If the mast step is held on by screws that are not through-bolted, hopefully it will do minimal damage. But, if the mast step is through-bolted, it may do major damage to a large portion of the cabin top.
Another thing I thought of...once the mast is up, I could just replace the bolt that connects the mast to the mast step with a nylon bolt that would shear off during a dismasting. But, would the nylon bolt would be too weak to support any side to side movement of the mast during sailing? Not sure.
nick23, my limited experience with plastic(nylon) bolts is not what you would want to depend on for anything, sun works to destroy them and the breaking value is so low that using one in this application i would not recommend, take skips advice.....refill holes and rescrew.........just one mans opinion......phil
nick23...you wrote, "The problem is that if you are dismasted, the mast may act as a huge lever and will pull the mast step off the cabin top."
Realize that the tabernacle has very little, maybe nothing, absolutely nothing to do with holding the mast onto the boat 'cept for providing a footing to leverage the mast up. The rig holds the mast once it is up so your statement, "...the bolt that connects the mast to the mast step with a nylon bolt that would shear off during a dismasting. But, would the nylon bolt would be too weak to support [prevent?] any side to side movement of the mast during sailing?"...is mute.
It's a screw with a big-o-butterfly thumb nut and big-o-flat fender washers that pivots up with the mast and raises in the tabernacle slot before dropping down. My friends C-P 19 Wind Rover sailed a season 'loose footed' because he lost the butterfly nut and kept forgetting to go to the hardware store for another. That mast never moved or creaked.
Yep that's how most tabernacles come off. Twisted off by the mast. Going up or coming down. I once stubbed my toe on the tabernacle without a mast in it and gave thought to kicking the offending appendage off the boat. But the pain went away first.
Chill! Say this happens. Why did this happen? Something broke. The standing rigging, head or stern stays or a tang came unfastened and let go the mast.
Assuming all human heads and body parts are not impailed on the falling rigging what next? Check to see if an abandoned boat drill is required due to taking on too much water to bail or pump. No? Got a didi mau bag in hand? No?
Take stock, popping the tabernacle off will be of no concern to you if this happens~so tabernacle be darned~just start to chop/cut/or disconnect the remains of the mast and boom and try to pull the sail off the rig, pull that sail on board and if possible then haul aboard the mast and lash it to the deck with small stuff [line just used to tie whatever to the boat].
Dad and I split our spruce mast at the lower spreader on our Star boat in Lake Michigan when I was a wee one. Ran the jib from the stub to the forward stay tac and limped back toward Belmont Harbor, Chicago till we were offered a tow by a stink potter. We had no motor.
(http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh299/1930fordroadster/StarKnockDown001.jpg)
Any damage including cutting out a portion of the cabin's top can be done dock side or back on the trailer with a whole bunch of West System Epoxy and some careful thought.
skip.
Ah yes, good points, the mast step does seem to do very little once the mast is up. Still, I just wanted to caution against through-bolting the mast step. I have no first hand experience (and little boat experience in general), but I read this on the Rhodes22 website and it worried me, mostly since I had just finished through-bolting my own mast step! =)
"On the other hand, if the stays supporting the mast are disconnected, there is no way that this huge lever called a mast, would not pry up its mast step, no matter how many bolts it had. We once witnessed a 22, whose builder had innocently bolted on his mast step, lose the cabin top when the mast came down. Although Rhodes' owners are smart, we know of some absent minded professor types who drove off with their masts up. It was amazing how little damage was done when the first bridge or cable they met took down their masts. Their savior was those three little screws that make for a clean break away of the mast step from the deck. I have replaced such break away mast steps by just driving three epoxy coated pieces of wood into the 3 holes and re-screwing the mast step back in place. "
Link:
http://www.rhodes22.com/contruction_detail.html
(scroll down a bit)
Some of the newer Cal 22's had a pop up type roof with material sides just behind the mast so one could stand up in the cabin right? Good idea for camping but this in itself may be a very weak spot if caught in a very bad storm. I can see that roofy thing coming loose and swamping the boat. I actually don't thing too much of these boat, but I have only walked through them at boat shows and was not that impressed with the toughness of the boat.
Kind of the same thing for those Hunter's and water balasted 26 footer's that can speed along at 30 knots with big outboard hung on them. It's like sailing a motor boat. Just a little to cheap for me.
skip.
DAVID, I WOULD GUESS WITH SAILS DOWN AND THE MAST NOT HITTING THE BOTTOM, DAMAGE TO THE BOATS MAST WOULD BE MINOR , AS FAR AS THE CAPTAIN AND GEAR IT WOULD BE ANOTHER MATTER.........PHIL
If the shrouds go and the mast falls to the side what will happen is the tabernacle will most likely bend over. I would say would bend over but sometimes things just happen. If mast falls to side and bends tabernacle just reach over loosen halyards, pull sails in then try to get boom off then pull mast back on board. Chances are pivot bolt will be jambed and you will have to wrench it off or cut it with hack saw.
If you are really lucky and are on a dead downwind run mast will pivot forward and not bend bow pulpit to bad.
I don't think you have to worry about mast falling into cockpit and hitting the Capt or crew as the for stay and jib will not let it fall aft.
Happy shrouds to all.
From the Guy at North Carolina Sailboats, a Com-Pac dealer and a fellow who seems to have a wealth of knowledge about Com-Pac maintenance issues:
"Message: My recently acquired ComPac 23 has a rather mangled mast step, no doubt the result of a number of out of control raisings or lowerings. I plan to take it off and either replace it or press it straight with a sized oak block filler. While it is off, I'll add some plates for a MacGregor gin pole, my intended mast raising system. How is it fastened from the factory? Is it wood or universal screws into the core material or machine screws into inserts? Doesn't seem to be any back plates or nuts, so I assume not through bolted. Also, what sealant is used? 5200? Anything I should know before I forge ahead and get in trouble? Thanks
Answer: The mast step is installed with screws. The screws will pull out if the mast is dropped. Through boltinjill do more damage if the mast is dropped (bent mast). A new mast step is cheap and it can be ordered from Com-Pac."
It is intended to be sacrificial in the event of a catastrophe.
Frank
Yes, after reading Frank's post I am definitely going to remove the through bolts and just go back to screws. I guess I can't easily make the change until the mast is down, but for now I can at least remove the nuts and washers inside the cabin.
"as the for stay and jib will not let it fall aft." Well now, as the fwd stay is un pinned or broken apart my mast goes down toward the stern.
In a crisis it can fall backwards as well.
skip.
Read as written "for say and jib will not let mast fall aft." Who is going to unhook his or her for stay when either shroud lets go. I think the question here is what is going to happen if a shroud parts. On my 16 if I have my jib hoisted and was of a mind to release my for stay my mast would still not fall.
mrb. If the mast falls down in any fashion front wise, back wise, side wise the first thing is cut or undue all the rigging and get that sails off. Get the mast on board. And that's after checking for incoming water.
skip.
Why was there a line through here in above post?
A: Take out the bracket-letter S-bracket and use sails, not sail, and...no line...
Skip On a larger boat I would agree with cutting rigging depending on conditions. If there is a chance mast is going to hole hull do what is needed to protect boat but reamember if your out of motor range of shore you will want some or all of that mast and or boom and rigging to get home on. I guess the ideal situation would be to have at least one spare mast and sail set up with related rigging to replace lost equipment. Kind of like having a spare radio in case one goes down. Oh heck why not tow a spare sail boat fully equipped as a back up just in case.
Back to mast dropping on a 16. The thing is so light in comparison to construction of boat I can't see it doing to much damage if it should fall And it sure isn't to heavy to drag back on board.
I will say having one shroud per side worries me some times. If I was to ever take the 16 off shore I would add one shroud to a separate chain plate per side. The diameter of wire on mine is a comfort and I would never go with a smaller size.
The comment concerning mast not falling aft was in referonce to a comment made concerning damage to captain. If the captain is in the cockpit I cannot imagine mast hitting him if a shroud breaks. If the jib is not hoisted and fore stay parts then yes mast will pivot back. Another reason for a set of shrouds set slightly forward of mast. IMHO Melvin sailing in Ar
So on a C-P 16 what if a very high crane was to grab the top-O-mast with a clamp and just lifted the fully and properly rigged boat right off the trailer and just hung it........
Q~Do you think the boat would fall?
A~My answer would be, "NO. She'd hang from the mast."
I think any Com-Pac would except ones with the MastTender System.
skip. Of course it wouldn't hang level but that's not the point. I actually think my C-P 19 could be hung from the mast as well.
Sailors, when you finish composing your posts, click on 'Spell Check'.
"Through boltinjill do more damage if the mast is dropped (bent mast). A new mast step is cheap and it can be ordered from Com-Pac"
A bent mast usually can be fixed by finding a big-O-tree with a low crouch. You and a couple of guys can fit her in and push the bend out. A guy I know backed his mast on a trailer into a building and bent the mast and popped a hole inside his P-up truck box. Jewels really felt stupid. But we had the easy fix. Good as new.
You can't pull an aluminum mast apart but you can induce a curve. It's so easy to do with the standing rigging just a little too tight or too loose and she'll bend like a wet noodle. So lay on the vee birth and sight right up that puppy through the forward hatch. Kind of like putting a sight tube inside the breach of a 105 or 155. See where your going. Then lift the spade to less then zero, load an antipersonnel ordnance, and pull the lanyard. We should say a few words about Veteran's day. 11-November-1918.
skip.