My wife and I just bought a Com-Pac 16, and I expect to be perusing this site and asking many questions in the coming months.
So here's the first. When the boat is on the trailer, and the mast is down, how do y'all support the rear end? The boat I bought has a horrible, jerry-rigged franken-crutch of mangled metal, wood and rubber. It attaches to the rudder--not to securely--which would be left attached in the upward position while trailoring. It seemed odd to me that the rudder would be left on while trailoring... maybe some of you can share opinions about that as well.
Does Hutchins sell a crutch for the CP16? Is there a good general-purpose crutch sold by some other company? Do most of you make your own?
And now, some photos of the tragedy.
(http://i561.photobucket.com/albums/ss56/TonyJRod/Com-Pac%2016/Mast%20Crutch/IMG_1084.jpg)
(http://i561.photobucket.com/albums/ss56/TonyJRod/Com-Pac%2016/Mast%20Crutch/IMG_1085.jpg)
(http://i561.photobucket.com/albums/ss56/TonyJRod/Com-Pac%2016/Mast%20Crutch/IMG_1086.jpg)
Welcome
Looks as if P O was on right track then became lost in the bungee jungle.
If you are talking about leaving rudder blade attache when towing I don't think that is a good idea as weight of the blade bouncing around would not be good for rest of rudder and bushings. I leave the upper part on and take the blade off when trailering.
For crutches I have seen many that were made of 2x4s or 1x2s. They are fastend together like a X with the v smaller at top. Hinge is simply a bolt run through where the two boards cross. You would want to make it high enough so when mast is resting in the upper v it will not be touching cabin top. I have an old one I no longer use but will measure it next couple days and give you dimensions if no one else does before.
There are a few problems that can occur with this type of boom crutch but as it is late I well let you know about them tommorrow.
Lots o luck. Melvin
I leave the rudder and outboard on for trailing. But its a short ride to the ramp. My mast crutch was made by Gil Wiess and doesn't stress the gudgeons. I would find a better way probably butting up to fiberglass and tying off to the stern cleats.
ARod
The dimensions for the mast crutch are cut 2 ea. 1X2 material 38 in. long. Drill hole 5 1/2 in from top through both pieces. Connect with 1 eye bolt 1/4 or 3/8 in.. Stainless steel bolt is best however galvanized is OK. You may want to cut bottom of both legs on an angle so that they sit flat on seats.
I mentioned there is a problem inherent in this type of crutch. It can move forward or backward when trailering if mast is not well secured. It is an easy fix. I use main sheet to pull mast down tightly into v then have two lines permanently fastend to crutch. These I run forward to mid ship cleats and secure well there.
Again good luck with boat. Melvin
Rick-K:
Is Gil Wiess a buddy of yours, or does he run a shop where you bought it? Googling that name gives me a whole lot of info, but nothing about sailing. :)
Yeah, I can see what you mean about not wanting to stress the gudgeons; then again, the mast isn't that heavy, and those things are strong.
Melvin:
Yes, I've seen that sort of arrangement before.
(http://www.mobyware.com/mobyware/sailing/tanzer/haulout/IMG_8304.jpg)
I'd also considered something like this, but I had two concerns. First, the one you brought up: how to stop it from tilting forward or back. Seems like your solution works well. My other concern is where the wood sits on the seats. Do you find that it does any damage to the boat? I'd think all that pressure and subtle movement wouldn't be good. Or is that just not an issue?
Tony
Pad the bottom ends well with carpet and use the rigidity of the mast to your advantage. The mast well secured on the bow rail (padded with carpet) will stabilize your crutch. The gudgeons are not made for any real vertical load. Gill owned my boat before me. He is around here somewhere, he now owns a Cp19.
Whew, yeah...that is a monstrosity!!!
Here's what I came up when swapping over to the IDA rudder assembly. My old setup was crap too.
Using some 1x4 cedar I had laying around...
The attachment of the crutch to the bracket is two U shaped clamps (U bent steel rod with backing plate and nuts). Can't recall what they are called "officially"...$4 or so at hardware store.
(http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z290/yamaholic_mcarp/mastcrutch2.jpg)
(http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z290/yamaholic_mcarp/mastcrutch.jpg)
Note the rudder assembly is 100% IDA, so some tweaks could be needed to fit the standard mount.
Note the small cutout around the rub rail. It allows you to hang the crutch there while you're fumbling with the U clamps.
Put a few steel rings in for bungee cords. You can see the top U clamp around the rudder/tiller joint area--took some time to make sure all would align up.
Also you can't see but on the left side the mast crutch, I hollowed out a nook for the bolt attaching the tiller plate to the rudder gudgeon/assembly. Obviously it's not tied down in the pics but you can see the ball bungee there for the ready.
It's very sturdy, maybe a little overkill, but it's simple to use, cheap to make, lightweight.
ARod
I haven't seen any problem with wear on seats, however what Rick-K says about carpet pad and for and aft movement is good advice. Melvin
Here is what the previous owner made for my 16. Not elegant, but it is simple, easy to put on and off, and seems to be functional. The center support does sit directly on the fiberglass and should be covered with carpet as the others have said. Darn it, another project to add to my list. The crutch is attached with short lines at each end which are simply tied to the stern cleats. Since my trailer didn't have lights, the PO just attached LED lights to the crutch. I'll probably re-make this crutch with some decent wood and eliminate the aluminum angle iron brace in the middle with a simple wood joint.
(http://i613.photobucket.com/albums/tt211/greene2108/DSC00968.jpg)
Mike
Quote from: Salty16 on June 02, 2009, 08:32:16 PM
(http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z290/yamaholic_mcarp/mastcrutch.jpg)
Very nice Job! I like the look of the raised Jib track, very salty. Do you have any more custom work on your boat?
Hiya Rick-
About the only other custom item I can think that is noteworthy is a wooden mahogony spool for a homemade PVC roller furler. Doug142 kindly made the spool for me and gave me tons of advice on how to make the furler work right. We worked out a fair trade. I'll post a pic of that this evening.
The cockpit rails shown are really nice! I would do it again in a heartbeat. They are solid teak with stainless rod/fasteners and solid brass rod spacers coated in varnish. PO tells me they came off another boat (cape dory maybe??). The cockpit rails gives much needed support for the back, gives more confidence especially those without sealegs, looks terrific and frankly gives something to hang on to if needed. The tracks are though bolted and backed by washers, nuts. The railing itself is backed by linking plates (below the floatation foam) made from aluminum plate for rigidity and for a more solid backing than the foam provides. The rear is bolted directly to the fiberglass, there is no foam in the far rear area. It seems to be quite strong, not even a squeek last weekend in 20 knot winds. The original finishing, shaping and fastening was kinda cheesy so i fixed that but the concept is a keeper.
Rick- Here's that spool that Doug142 made for me. I finish sanded, cetol and varnished it.
(http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z290/yamaholic_mcarp/PICT7593.jpg)
Bling! Thanks again, Doug!
I don't consider this "custom", and really wanted to use wood, but couldn't overcome the tempation of maintenance free starboard. THe brass handle matches the one on the lazerette cover you can see in the other pic
(http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z290/yamaholic_mcarp/PICT7601.jpg)
As for the mast crutch, here is another pic I overlooked that may be helpful.
(http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z290/yamaholic_mcarp/PICT76041.jpg)
Kind of hard to describe how it's made, but the pics should be telling enough.
I haven't checked the photo gallery lately, or know if it's even online, but do recall seeing quite a few creative designs for the crutch. Even a real "youth" size crutch.
Wow. Great, great input.
Salty16:
That is a really nice arrangement. And I see you also have the mast supported in the middle--I'd thought of doing something similar. And I also really like those wood railings you've got there.
I'll be starting another topic eventually asking "is the IdaSailor rudder worth it?" I'll look for you there. :)
Greene:
That's very interresting. Similar to the X thing, but secured to the cleats so it's not going anywhere.
dserrell:
I think I follow, but pictures definitely help. In any case, I store mine in a garage, so keeping the mast in the tabernacle isn't an option for me.
Arod thanks for the kind words. Definitely make a crutch for the tabernacle. The 3/8" mast bolt holds it on. What I like about the arrangement is it's very solid and compact for stowing. The mast, boom and furler are not going anywhere! And yes it all fits in a 19' foot deep garage with a 7' garage door (rudder must be down when entering the garage threshold). I specifically measured the height of the crutch to ensure it fit in my 7' garage.
Do you need other pics? I can't take more of it with the mast in it as boat is in a slip (not taking mast down!), but can snap a few shots of just the crutch if you want. Those may be more helpful. But as I said there are many ways to skin this cat...each have their own advantages and drawbacks. The drawback of my setup is it takes about a minute to get setup...others look like they would be 30 seconds but tougher to store.
As for the IDA...here's my story. Upon taking possession of the boat in 2006, without a ton of prior research on the boat, the first thing I noticed was the steering simply did not cut it! I was having trouble tacking, windward progress was dismal, control seemed very lacking compared to my prior boat.
In short I really like the boat but the steering had to be improved. Of course I read about the IDA, knew it will be an improvement and looked into it. Sometime between considering it an buying it in 2007, IDA started to make the kickup assembly and didn't advertise just the rudder anymore. But it was not cheap at $525 or so. Having some back problems and well as frequent situations where the stock rudder would kick up and stay up, requiring to manually put it back down (in these cases normally I needed steering in a big way to avoid a shoal!), I decided to go with the deluxe setup that automatically pushed the rudder back down. It's fantastic--steering to wind is no problem anymore, tacks are very easy and efficient, docking is easier and when the rudder touches down and pushes the rudder upward, the hydraulics push it back down immediately..keeping your steering intact when you most need it! Love it, it's the best improvement I've made to the boat. The standard IDA rudder, if you can find one, works well too and has the same NACA 0012 shape...just doesn't have the hydraulics. I'm not sure if the standalone rudder is as long as the one on the assembly. As you can see from the pics, the rudder on the assembly is huge! Also the assembly allows you to pull or push down the rudder with one rope. Makes it easy to get the blade out of the water!
I think it's safe to say that any version of the IDA rudder, even homemade units are in order of magnitudes better than the standard blade.
Very nice! Thank you for sharing.
OK, I figured I'd post some photos of my solution.
I ended up making a simple wooden crutch that bolts to the rudder gudgeons.
(http://i561.photobucket.com/albums/ss56/TonyJRod/Com-Pac%2016/Mast%20Crutch/IMG_1163.jpg) (http://i561.photobucket.com/albums/ss56/TonyJRod/Com-Pac%2016/Mast%20Crutch/IMG_1158.jpg)
This solution appealed to me because it was simple and secure.
The mast rests in a 5 inch arc cut into the top, and a couple of stainless eyes for two bungees to hold on to.
(http://i561.photobucket.com/albums/ss56/TonyJRod/Com-Pac%2016/Mast%20Crutch/IMG_1169.jpg) (http://i561.photobucket.com/albums/ss56/TonyJRod/Com-Pac%2016/Mast%20Crutch/IMG_1170.jpg)
I still plan to sand and paint it, but I'll save that for a rainy day. :)
Very nice Arod. I may just make one like that for myself. I had to make one in a pinch at the end of last year's season. I simply took a 1x6 and cut it about 15 inches long and made the cutouts like the drawing below. It slides over the motormount bracket between the motor mount and the transom and then just wrap a bungee cord around it when the mast is on it. Very crude but it worked well.
(http://www.ronmeinsler.com/crutch.jpg)
Nice. The advantage of something like that is that it slips on, so it's easy-on, easy-off. But it's about an 1 1/2 hour drive from my storage garage in Chicago to Lake Delavan where I'll be doing most of my sailing this summer. So it was super important that my solution be rock-solid.
I am thinking of replacing the bolts with large clevis pins, to make it faster to get on and off.
Actually, this brings up an interesting question: does anyone keep their rudder/tiller attached to their boat using big clevis pins instead of bolts?
Tony