I am trying to put together a wish-list for items to be factory installed when ordering a new Sun Cat (i.e., other than the standard and optional items already offered upfront by Hutchins). This is so far what I have come with. Can anyone think of anything else to add to the list? The cat would be a full cabin Sun Cat to be trailered and sailed, mostly solo, in fresh water coastal cruising.
All electronics is hand-held.
- Two reef points in the sail - Seems like a given. Perhaps three?
- Single line reefing - Any one using it?
- Lazy Jacks - Have only heard good things about them
- Boom Vang - seems a good idea since main sheet is rigged aft
- Solar panel? - I have used a flexible one in the past, should I install a permanent one?
- AC 110 - For charging the computer and the cell phone
- VHF radio and mast VHF antenna - to improve eye-sight range
- Removable cockpit table? - i.e., like those used in some small trailer tents?
- Swing tongue (trailer) - Garage is short...
- Depth sounder? - My old lead line saves on batteries! and if electronic I am so far favoring a hand-held
- An oarlock at the transom for sculling (like Captn. Slocum in Spray...) - Indispensable...
Thanks,
J.
I would definately add mooring cleats amidships so you can use spring lines when necessary, also as a place for hanging a fender. I have not found it necessary to have a vang and would think it would be a problem when raising and lowering the mast. Jiffy reefing and lazy jacks are great. I think two reef points are adequate since you can almost consider letting off the peak halyard as your first reef point. For AC just get a small inverter and plug it into your 12 volt outlet. Depth sounder, consider installing with a shoot thru transducer so you don't have to drill holes in the hull. I don't see how a hand held would be any benefit. How about a compass?
Jim
Jim,
Here are my comments to yours:
The idea of a mooring cleat amidship is a superb one. Also great for rigging an amidship breast line for stepping to the dock when single-handed.
Will reconsider the vang carefully, but what would be the problem if it is only a regular vang with snap shackles?
Two reefing points it is.
Problem with small inverters is interference with my portable Ham HF radio... but there is no indication that a permanent installed one would not do same.
The bulkhead compass is an option offered by Hutchins. I prefer a good hand-held but cannot do without a boat compass either.
As for the sonnar I was thinking on something like this:
http://www.hawkeyeelectronics.com/products/H22PX/overview.htm
http://www.landfallnavigation.com/digitalsonar.html
Advantages are that it can be used in different locations relative to the boat and in different boats. I like to keep the boat as much uncluttered with electronics as possible (for the old feeling and in case of lightning... you know).
What about an autopilot?
J.
I installed the D10D using the transducer shooting thru the hull. If you should go this way I can explain how to do it. With the hand held don't you have to lean over and put in in the water? Autopilots are big energy users. You will find a tiller tender to be a big help when single handing.
Jim,
I agree that having the depth continuously displayed in the boat when approaching shore would be a plus. I understand that you installed the D10D transducer inside the boat without drilling a thru-hull hole? I don't like thru-hull holes in a small boat, particularly one without positive floatation (the self-bailing scuppers are already bad enough!).
I agree about the energy use of the autopilot but for an aging single-handler it seems almost a must, not for extensive passaging but for freeing the only two hands on deck in time of need (i.e., reefing, dousing the sail, particularly considering that a Cat cannot be hove-to in the same manner as a sloop).
Raymarine ST1000 and the Simrad TP10 are the smallest I know. Most reviews I've seen favour the ST1000. According to Raymarine the Power Consumption of the ST100 in on Standby: 40 mA/hr (90 mA/hr with full lighting), and on Auto: 0.5 to 1.5 Amp/hr (depending on the seas and the boat). This is high but for short periods of usage (minutes) it should be within the power range of a ~70 Amp/hr battery trickled charged by a solar panel. The only reason I've seen for preferring the ST2000 in a small boat like the Sun Cat would be the speed of response (i.e., to avoid rolling).
J.
Might eyeball these items for your Suncat options wish list ...
- special paint job? hull & bottom colors are pretty but require maintenance
- bottom paint
- bimini
- cockpit cushions
- fabric berth cushions instead of vinyl
- upgraded teak interior over plain ash
- hatch board bag
- sail cover
- Doyle sail with two sets of reef points & tell tales
- extra reefing gear on boom (comes with hardware for first set)
- lazy jacks (most people love them, but not me, just extra lines to foul)
- electrical package
- marine battery & tray (there is room for a second battery if desired)
- 12 amp battery charger
- 12 volt outlet
- bulkhead mounted compass, they spec a Danforth Saturn
- anchor roller & hinged deck pipe
- teak cockpit grate
- stainless boarding ladder
- hasps for the cockpit lockers
- forward hatch screen
- galvanized trailer with spare tire
- full boat cover for storage, not trailering
- mermaid?
Absolutely agree with Les re: the options list, especially not using lazy jacks on a boat this size. Too many lines in the way! Always room for a "mermaid" tho!
Since sailing would be in fresh water... a Naiad perhaps...?
Joseph,
A naiad would do, as long as your body of water doesn't dry up!
Drying up? With the shallow draft of the SC got a long way to go, and once the creature is on board, who cares about being aground... and BTW, "Naiad" may not be a bad name for the boat, either... Thanks!
J.
Quote from: Joseph on May 23, 2009, 09:24:36 AM
- Two reef points in the sail - Seems like a given. Perhaps three?
- Single line reefing - Any one using it?
- Lazy Jacks - Have only heard good things about them
- Boom Vang - seems a good idea since main sheet is rigged aft
- Solar panel? - I have used a flexible one in the past, should I install a permanent one?
- AC 110 - For charging the computer and the cell phone
- VHF radio and mast VHF antenna - to improve eye-sight range
- Removable cockpit table? - i.e., like those used in some small trailer tents?
- Swing tongue (trailer) - Garage is short...
- Depth sounder? - My old lead line saves on batteries! and if electronic I am so far favoring a hand-held
- An oarlock at the transom for sculling (like Captn. Slocum in Spray...) - Indispensable...
Thanks,
J.
Compared to other cat boats, the Com-Pacs have less sail area for each pound of boat. Translation: they already have the first reef in when the sail is fully deployed. They also come with a reef point, which I view as the second reef point. As mentioned, dropping the gaff boom is another, making a third reef point. So you're talking about adding a fourth and fifth reef. Maybe stay home those days?
Single line reefing: I have seen one that did not jam up due to excessive friction. The hardware used would shock you in price. Do it the old fashioned way.
A simple single lazy jack line down each side, adjustable at the boom, will help you keep from being whacked in the head by the gaff boom and will organize the sail. You can also use it to raise the main boom a bit in light air for a more round sail shape. It doesn't need a fancy lazy jack set with multiple lines on each side. One line contains the gaff boom, and that's plenty.
A boom vang might present a problem when folding the mast, depending on installation. The two booms and the sail pretty well occupy the mast stub, and if boom vang hardware got in the way of that stuff coming all the way down, no folding for you!
Get a little cheap inverter for AC power. I like the ones that just plug right into a 12 volt outlet. Cheap enough to be semi-disposable, but do the job.
If you put a VHF antenna on your mast, protect the wire inside corrugated plastic tubing to keep the mast hinge from cutting it.
I think the absolute factory installed options are ones that would be very difficult to do on your own; electrical system, anchor roller and deck pipe, swim ladder etc. Mooring cleats amidships is a great idea. I wish I had them. A lot of things like lazy jacks are easy to install if you like messing around with boats.
I am thinking that two reefs in the sail doesn't leave much up there to drive the boat. In windy conditions, you have to be able to drive the boat through the waves. Anybody have double reefs that can speak to this? I'd also like to hear from folks about depth sounders; the Suncat only draws what, 16 inches with the board up?
My main has Jiffy two reefs in her on my Com-Pac 19.
Don't use them very long before I shake them out.
Nothing is very hard to add to a sound and well sorted boat.
It took me three days to figure out how to mount my compass
without having the back side of the compass sticking into the cabin
and a half a day to make the teak ring and attach to the bulkhead
with 'no visible means of support'. Opps sounds like a bra commercial.
And you thought skippy didn't pay attention.
And how to hide all wiring, antenna leads, ect.
skip.
What compass did you mount. I too do not want the compass to enter the cabin. It would spoil a good back rest.
I would make a spare hatch board and mount a bulkhead-mount compass into it. More visible when passengers are aboard, doesn't spoil a good backrest, and can be put inside out of weather when the boat is not in use.
I did not want my compass to protrude either in the front or back of the bulkhead as we use those areas as back support when relaxing on the boat. The extra hatch board idea is a good one and I will consider it if my plan A does not work out. I purchased a bracket mount compass and plan to velcro it to the front of my teak cockpit grate right on the centerline, it will be right below my depth sounder. I have set it in place and it looks like it will work fine and not be in the way of anything. When not using it just pull it up and put it away. The one I am using is a Ritchie Explorer #B-51, $63.00 at West Marine.
Jim
From the valuable input received and some personal preferences, here is how it looks so far:
Anything else?
J.
- Doyle sail with two sets of reef points & tell tales - Yes
- Single line reefing - Yes
- Lazy Jacks - No (or a simple one)
- Boom Vang - Yes (not a rigid one: several purchase-line with blocks and snap-shackles)
- Solar panel - Not initially. I'll use my old flexible one
- AC 110 - Yes
- VHF radio and mast VHF antenna - Yes
- Removable cockpit table? - No
- Depth sounder? - No (not initially)
- Mooring cleat amidship - Yes
- Bulkhead mounted compass - Yes
- Tiller autopilot (ST1000) - Yes
- special paint job? No
- bottom paint - No
- bimini - Yes
- cockpit cushions - Yes
- fabric berth cushions instead of vinyl - Yes
- upgraded teak interior over plain ash - Maybe (how much better and costly would this be...?)
- hatch board bag - Maybe
- Sail cover - Yes
- extra reefing gear on boom (comes with hardware for first set) - Yes
- electrical package - Yes
- marine battery & tray (there is room for a second battery if desired) - Yes
- 12 amp battery charger - No (can use a portable one)
- 12 volt outlet - Yes
- bulkhead mounted compass - Yes
- anchor roller & hinged deck pipe - Yes
- teak cockpit grate - Yes
- stainless boarding ladder - Yes
- hasps for the cockpit lockers - Yes
- forward hatch screen - Yes
- galvanized trailer with spare tire and swing tongue - Yes
- full boat cover for storage, not trailering - Yes
- An oarlock at the transom for sculling (like Captn. Slocum in Spray...) - Indispensable...
- mermaid? ... will settle for a dry-proof Naiad
- Doyle sail with two sets of reef points & tell tales - Yes OK.
- Single line reefing - Yes OK Called Jiffy Reef.
- Lazy Jacks - No (or a simple one) NO Use a cable off stern standing rigging with Q/D.
- Boom Vang - Yes (not a rigid one: several purchase-line with blocks and snap-shackles) OK 4 purchase Garhauher
- Solar panel - Not initially. I'll use my old flexible one OK Make sure pn'l has air flow under it.
- AC 110 - Yes Why?
- VHF radio and mast VHF antenna - Yes Get the Shakespeare adapter to use the VHF for Am and FM as well.
- Removable cockpit table? - No NO!
- Depth sounder? - No (not initially) Raymarine ST-40 when you get around to it.
- Mooring cleat amidship - Yes OK
- Bulkhead mounted compass - Yes OK See my mounting compass post.
- Tiller autopilot (ST1000) - Yes NO! You'll run out of juice. See my Frappr for a tiller minder each cockpit side.
- special paint job? No Keep the glass perfect. No paint req'd. Colored fiberglass? ???OK
- bottom paint - No Yes me thinks. Fresh or salt.
- bimini - Yes Mounting without banging your body on the bloody hell thing...
- cockpit cushions - Yes and cockpit surround as well. OK
- fabric berth cushions instead of vinyl - Yes OK!!
- upgraded teak interior over plain ash - Maybe (how much better and costly would this be...?) Nope. st'd OK.
- hatch board bag - Maybe Cut the drop board in half on a 45 deg cut. With or without bag.
- Sail cover - Yes OK
- extra reefing gear on boom (comes with hardware for first set) - Yes Unknown option.
- electrical package - Yes 12v dc or 120 v ac
- marine battery & tray (there is room for a second battery if desired) - Yes May be. Depends on consumption.
- 12 amp battery charger - No (can use a portable one) Plug into the pier and charge 'one' battery.
- 12 volt outlet - Yes Where to locate?. She'll rust.
- bulkhead mounted compass - Yes See my compass post.
- anchor roller & hinged deck pipe - Yes store anchor and pin on bow roller with vinyl covered chain and 150 ft 3 strand line.
- teak cockpit grate - Yes Only if you have extra $.
- stainless boarding ladder - Yes Make sure you can lower it and use it while swimming in water over your head.
- hasps for the cockpit lockers - Yes NO tear up your legs. An snag her Leggs.
- forward hatch screen - Yes Why everything else is open.
- galvanized trailer with spare tire and swing tongue - Yes I don't swing.
- full boat cover for storage, not trailering - Yes If you have the $'s
- An oarlock at the transom for sculling (like Capitan. Slocum in Spray...) - Indispensable...Why? are you on Spray w/o and engine?
- mermaid? ...will settle for a dry-proof Naiad. Naiad's are nice. You could get her the bathing suit of the future. Two band aids and a cork.
skip
- Doyle sail with two sets of reef points & tell tales - Yes OK. OK
- Single line reefing - Yes OK Called Jiffy Reef.Not really - single-line means that the same line lulls down the tack and the clew
- Lazy Jacks - No (or a simple one) NO Use a cable off stern standing rigging with Q/D.Not sure what you mean
- Boom Vang - Yes (not a rigid one: several purchase-line with blocks and snap-shackles) OK 4 purchase GarhauherOK
- Solar panel - Not initially. I'll use my old flexible one OK Make sure pn'l has air flow under it.OK
- AC 110 - Yes Why?For computer...
- VHF radio and mast VHF antenna - Yes Get the Shakespeare adapter to use the VHF for Am and FM as well.OK - Do you have a reference for the SHakespeare adapter?
- Removable cockpit table? - No NO!OK
- Depth sounder? - No (not initially) Raymarine ST-40 when you get around to it.OK
- Mooring cleat amidship - Yes OKOK
- Bulkhead mounted compass - Yes OK See my mounting compass post.OK
- Tiller autopilot (ST1000) - Yes NO! You'll run out of juice. See my Frappr for a tiller minder each cockpit side.Hichhiker uses it while tricklecharging with a small solar panel on the roof of the panel
- special paint job? No Keep the glass perfect. No paint req'd. Colored fiberglass? ???OKOK
- bottom paint - No Yes me thinks. Fresh or salt.OK, yes
- bimini - Yes Mounting without banging your body on the bloody hell thing...OK good advice, experience?
- cockpit cushions - Yes and cockpit surround as well. OKOK good advice
- fabric berth cushions instead of vinyl - Yes OK!!OK
- upgraded teak interior over plain ash - Maybe (how much better and costly would this be...?) Nope. st'd OK.OK
- hatch board bag - Maybe Cut the drop board in half on a 45 deg cut. With or without bag.OK
- Sail cover - Yes OKOK
- extra reefing gear on boom (comes with hardware for first set) - Yes Unknown option.OK - see Harken's
- electrical package - Yes 12v dc or 120 v acOK
- marine battery & tray (there is room for a second battery if desired) - Yes May be. Depends on consumption.OK
- 12 amp battery charger - No (can use a portable one) Plug into the pier and charge 'one' battery.OK
- 12 volt outlet - Yes Where to locate?. She'll rust.OK perhaps not in fresh water
- bulkhead mounted compass - Yes See my compass post.OK
- anchor roller & hinged deck pipe - Yes store anchor and pin on bow roller with vinyl covered chain and 150 ft 3 strand line.OK
- teak cockpit grate - Yes Only if you have extra $.OK
- stainless boarding ladder - Yes Make sure you can lower it and use it while swimming in water over your head.OK
- hasps for the cockpit lockers - Yes NO tear up your legs. An snag her Leggs.OK, food for thought
- forward hatch screen - Yes Why everything else is open.OK to keep mosquitoes away - Have net for cabin hatch
- galvanized trailer with spare tire and swing tongue - Yes I don't swing.OK garage is short
- full boat cover for storage, not trailering - Yes If you have the $'sOK
- An oarlock at the transom for sculling (like Capitan. Slocum in Spray...) - Indispensable...Why? are you on Spray w/o and engine?OK need the feeling... Nova Scotia-born Joshua Slocum was the first single-handed around the world in the early 1900 in "Spray", a wooden 35 ft schooner w/o an auxiliary engine....
- mermaid? ...will settle for a dry-proof Naiad. Naiad's are nice. You could get her the bathing suit of the future. Two band aids and a cork.OK but why bother...
skip
~Jiffy: yep holds down tac [on a hook on the gooseneck] and clew with ties through the sail grommets around boom.
~I might be able to find a picture of my boom support when no sail is there holding up the boom. Or draw and post a picture in Frappr. I'm not real sure if the Sun Cat has a back stay...
~Computer? Are you sailing an office? How about the 'bizzion' years sailors had no computers? OK enjoy your computer.
~Hitchhiker can, how many amp hours does the tiller drive use? How many in the battery? and how much does the solar cell put into the battery? Without amps, 300 or 1500 or 3000 milliamp with 14 to 22 volts or so equals very few watts. IMHO.
~You'll know when you drag part of your body over something sticking out as you battle to stay on the settee and not the soul of the cockpit.
~My stainless steel outlet rusted in fresh water. The inside working part is not ss.
~Swing is short on trailer. About 9" Garage that short as well?
~I read the book as well. Spray was a heavy-o-fishing smack that needed to be skulled into the shallows and not run aground. But if you need the feeling; go canoing. And storing the paddle hummmmmm where? Had both of his legs cut off [ diabetes] and sailed the highest and lowest lakes on the planet. Dis appeared with his boat.
~Make it legal! That's why bother.
Grins skip.
I really like having autopilot (Raymarine ST-1000). If you have a solar panel of my size, you will not worry about the battery consumption. I sail once a week and I use the autopilot for about half of my sailing time (4 hours?).
~Jiffy holds tack on a hook. Single-line (as defined by Harken) holds tack down with the same line that holds the clew (i.e., no need for a hook at the tack) and the entire sail can be reefed down by pooling one single line from the cockpit without the need for stepping forward to the mast to hook the new tack.
~No backstay in Sun Cat, and not sure whether there is a topping lift either?
~Computer?
Sorry, but got to have one... years at the grinding stone have caused the brain to no longer operate without its silicon peripheral. Might come also handy for writing some "memoires" while floating under the Milky Way... And also for e-mail (Winlink makes it possible to have e-mail from the boat without even paying for a server! but it requires a computer - as well as an HF radio and radio-modem and an antenna and a tuner, but that is also part of the fun...). Of course, cellular and satellite phones make this technologically passé, but to a large extent so is sailing...
~Solar panel as trickle charger. One can do the calculations if needed, but it works for Hitchhiker and also used to work for me in my Alberg. I used an 11 watt UniSolar flexible panel (which outputs ~4 Amp-hr each day) with a 72 Amp-hr marine battery. The catalog of West Marine also has a quick formula for determining the need for a charge regulator depending on the wattage of the solar panel and the Amp-hours of the battery, which with such arrangement as above it is not needed.
~Need a swing tongue in the trailer because the loaded trailer has a "LOA" longer than the garage...
Ok. Will desist from emulating Joshua (not that I had ever a chance...) and trade the stern oar for a 5Hp Honda or analog...
Got it... and will strive to make it legal! May also call her "Champagne"...
J.
I need help here. Just went through the complete West Marine and Defender Marine Sales catalogs and can't find the mermaids.Anyone know where they're on sale?
Discontinued. Special order only. I found mine 30 years ago and have kept her ever since.
Bob23
Joseph, before you go for the standard ash interior, take a look at the optional teak for appx $300 (I can email you pics of both if you want).
Les
I spend between 3 and 4 months a year living on a boat so when I ordered mine, a dodger was on the list. Once you've had one, it's hard not to. Protects from wind and rain as well as allowing the hatch to remain open during rain at anchor. If you've ever spent 2 days below on a small boat....that is luxury ;-) I also got a 2nd reef point.Figure I'll most likely never use it...but if needed that "one time" , will be worth it. Another simple thing I did was ask for the cushions to be 2 inchs shorter.That allows room for storing the stove etc under the bridgedeck.It didn't fit 'as built'
Les - For $300 the teak might indeed nice to have. By all means do send me an URL for viewing your pictures or send then in an e-mail.
Frank - A dodger... the SC seems to be a very "dry" boat (i.e., no spray to windward when closehauled in 2-3 footer waves...) at least that is what it seems from videos but will definitely consider it for headroom. Any chance it could link with the Bimini aft in the cockpit for a full-covered cockpit? Furthermore, how does a dodger affect the looks of the design? Cat boats in general don't seem to favor dodgers, any reason for this? Re the cushions I guess you are also referring to those inside the cabin and the storing space you are talking about must be aft in the cabin?
Thanks.
I think the dodger looks great on it. I tried a pic but having trouble posting it. PM me with your e-mail and I'll forward it to you. The shorter cushions do make a cruising difference for storage. I'll take a pic as well. I didn't get the teak but was unaware it was available :-( It would look richer and warmer for sure. I'm getting a sunshade made that zips to the dodger and yies on the boom gallows.Not here yet but is pretty simple and should work.
Frank - Great. No need to PM. Just click on my name on the left of the page and then go down to the link that says "send this member a personal message".
In my opinion, I don't need a dodger for my SC. Because I like standing on the entrance of my cabin. The dodger might block my clear view and nice wind from there. And if you are tall, you have to squat every time you go into the cabin.
Agreed that you don't need one. After having one, its hard not to. They install/remove in a couple of minutes. Even at anchor they protect you while sitting in the cocpit relaxing or cooking. They are handy.