Hi all,
I was re-reading my last years question on topping lift and came accross Ron's comments about how he added a traveler and changed the main sheeting to mid-boom. Someone somewhere along the way did the same thing to mine. But a rather knowledgeable sailor and friend in my yacht club was telling me that I should change it back to the original sheeting at the end of the boom. Something about too much purchase. I am thinking about doing it... (mainly because the traveler is a piece of sh!t and the block just sort of moves from one end to the other at its own will in a strong wind and seems immoveable when I actually want to move it.)
So... what do you all think??
Thanks,
Sherie
Hey Sherie,
IMO mid-boom sheeting is superior to end-boom sheeting because the position and adjustability of the traveler. That said, end-boom sheeting that works is superior to mid-boom sheeting that doesn't work. ;) If you have the money, I'd have your mid-boom system evaluated and repaired. I'm not exactly sure what "too much purchase" means (too many blocks or not enough), but sounds easily fixable. Is your main sheet attached to a single point or mutliple points on the boom? I found this image on Harken's website. They talk about converting end-boom sheeting to mid-boom and the possible effects on the boom:
(http://www.harken.co.uk/images/travQA_boom-load.gif)
Considering the 23's have a conservative sail-plan, I don't think you're at too much risk torquing the boom due to the increased loads due to a short lever arm of mid-boom sheeting. However, I'd rig it to at least two points on the boom rather than a single point.
--Greg
Thanks Greg,
I do only have the one point on the boom. Maybe I will take a look at Harken's website. A second block might do the trick.
Cheers,
Sherie
sherie
We have a 2002 16cb that came with mid boom traveler installed by the factory. We don't have the problem you have described as our traveler remains locked down until you uncleat it to adjust. Don't know how that compares with end-boom sheeting but the traveler allows you to shape your sails for various wind conditions (I'm still learning the best sheeting to keep the craft balanced and moving as rapidly as is possible for our slow but steady craft). If you have the factory traveler, your cleats or line might simply be worn allowing it to slip instead of holding fast.
End Boom. Mid boom is always in the way. Face it your sailing a barge, like all Com-Pacs. I can't fathom a single reason for mid-boom unless your racing. skip. Get rid of the side by side gang block that came with the boat and pick-up an inline block by Gahauher [sp]. That way the main sheet will stop twisting up. Go to the other Com-Pac site for Yahoo and look at my skip's pics album. You can see the rig in one of the pics. I can't view those anymore as something is upcuffed. Nor can I log in to that site anymore. But I can read and respond through my e-mail. Strange. skip.
Are you still dinking around with the VHF cable and steaming lite wiring?
OH I forgot. At the bottom of this post is a link to my Frappr. One can see the picture of me standing in my comapnion way with my brown sweat shirt. And there is the inline block. At the end of the boom.
Boy I really like this modify key for posts.
I agree that the end boom is better. My previous boat, a Hunter 27 (sold) had been used for racing and converted to mid boom. The traveler was always in the way and the sheet was difficult to use due to the location relative to where one usually stands of sits (the Hunter did have a longer cockpit). I was going to change it back until a civic minded person offered me a deal and took the boat away.
Sherie,
My compac came with mid-boom and I have really grown to like it. I like standing on the end of the boat sometimes, and I may even put seats on the pulpit in the future. My mid boom is much simpler than your diagrams- just a simple traveller and block. It does the job well though.
Thank You all for your valuable input!! I will let you know what I decide... and I will take pictures. :o)
When I bought my 1989 CP 23/3 several years ago it had been converted to mid-boom sheeting using a Harken traveller across the aft edge of the bridge deck along with (I believe) the original factory 3:1 mainsheet assembly attached to a single through-bolted bail approximately 2/3 of the way out the boom. Since I have never used the original boom-end arrangement I can't compare the two but I can say that I have been totally pleased with the mid-boom/bridge deck traveller system. The only modification I have made is to change out the original 3:1 system with a Garhauer 4:1 mainsheet system to compensate for the reduced leverage of the semi-midboom attachment. I found that when the main was fully loaded in a good blow that it was sometimes (dangerously) difficult to pop the jam cleat when needing to spill a puff. The sheet traveller is a great help in adjusting the sheeting angle when running or sailing close hauled. The location of the sheet at the forward end of the cockpit doesn't interfere with activities at all when sailing....in fact I think the end-boom location would make other activities like raising and lowering the outboard and rudder or using the swim ladder more difficult where it would be in the way. The only location downside to the current arrangement is that it can sometimes be in the way when entering or exiting the companionway. When we are spending the night or day aboard while in port at at anchor it is easy to position the traveler car far to one side to clear the path to the cabin....no problem. There are some pictures of the WindRush on the SailboatOwners.com web site under the ComPac Forum that should give some idea of the system looks like. If there isn't one there now I will try to add a good pic in the near future. Good luck.
Mike
WindRush CP-23/2
A continuation of the previous post.....
Hope I haven't confused everyone with the location of the pics showing the mid-boom arrangement from above....the pics are in the WindRush Album in the Com-Pac Sailboat Social Group found under the Forum Index....there really isn't a Com-Pac Forum as there are for other classes. I'm hoping we can get the Albums up and running again on this site as it is a much better forum for Com-Pac discussions.
Mike
WindRush
"Face it your sailing a barge, like all Com-Pacs." A damnable calumny and lie! Our Suncat is undercanvassed (as everyone knows), but in 15-18 knots on a broad reach we have regularly exceeded 5.75 knots. In light air it wallows, won't point, and won't come about -- but give it 20 knots and it is a bat out of hell!
Quote from: jdonaldson on May 08, 2009, 08:58:42 PM
"Face it your sailing a barge, like all Com-Pacs." A damnable calumny and lie! Our Suncat is undercanvassed (as everyone knows), but in 15-18 knots on a broad reach we have regularly exceeded 5.75 knots. In light air it wallows, won't point, and won't come about -- but give it 20 knots and it is a bat out of hell!
Did you say "the barge from hell"?
Barge? OK. Guess I'll need a new horn!
http://www.1motormart.com/sounds/naut0042.wav (http://www.1motormart.com/sounds/naut0042.wav)
Perfect. Yes a barge horn indeed!
I have a 6.? knot speed indicated from my Raymarine chart plotter on my C-P 19. Still sailing a barge in terms of performance. You want performance? Sail a flat bottom Sharpie with a keel. AKA as a Star Boat. She'll will accelerate so fast she'll snap your neck on a two pennant stormy day.
skip.
The CP-23 may not be a speed demon but I certainly don't consider it a dog, either. Two weeks ago we were out in 25 mph winds and the GPS reached 6.3 knots on several occasions with a single reef in the main and the genny only about 50% unfurled. We were heeled at 20-30 deg much of the time so you can guess that our speed was being hindered considerably by weather helm....still we hung in at 5.5 to 6 knots most of the time. Fortunately, wave height was only 1 to 2 feet so we weren't having to bang our way through heavy chop and this helped in maintaining a fairly constant speed. I don't race so I can't say that the 23 would be competitive with other boats her size but I find that when I get in the parade of boats headed back to harbor at he end of the day that we aren't constantly being overtaken by the majority of boats.
Mike
WindRush
Sherie:
Somehow we got on the barge thing here, which, by the way I do not agree with. Koinonia ain't no barge. Neither is Blonde Ambition, far as I can tell. But back to mid-boom sheeting vs. end of boom.
I've been out both yesterday and today. I feel that with mid boom sail shape can be improved but maybe only marginally. I also have a boom vang and that helps. My biggest gripe about my end o' boom is all that line back where I need to work sometimes. Operate the outboard. Raise and lower the rudder. Cook on the grill. etc. Like I said before, I've also had it tangle in the tiller while the sails-a-fluttering when I arrive back at my mooring single handed.
I think you can add a double or triple block to increase the purchase and still keep your mid-boom sheeting so you can have plenty of mechanical advantage to muscle that main in when you need to.
Again, my 2 cents. Bob23...always glad to help.
I believe that most people on the water who feel that boating is only enjoyable when it's fast are those motorboaters out blasting around. If you need fast get a jet ski - but please don't operate it in my neighborhood.
Face it compared to almost any other means of transport sailboats are barges, not just Compacs. But who ever said a barge is a bad thing? The other week while out in Charlotte Harbor I had a lengthy visit by a dolphin. Eventually he/she fell away in my wake. There was a "cruiser" motorboat that crossed my wake in the immediate vicinity of the dolphin, but no one on board even noticed. Why do they go out on these aquatic day trips if for nothing more than lunch at one of the many waterside restaurants?
Back to the point - and that is that sailing is fun in large measure because of the boat's interaction with wind and wave. Things that make this interaction more interactive raise the fun factor. Travelers do just that. It just happens that a traveler system is easier to rig and more effective using a mid boom sheet as opposed to an end boom arrangement on our Compacs. Their function is really to make the boat do what it does better, and this usually results in greater boat speed, but very importantly better boat balance. I can't believe all the performance claims I have seen on this forum about the Ida Sailor rudder, but comparative apathy about the benefits of travelers and good sails. I personally feel that many of you would benefit far more by spending a little time on learning proper sail trim, than buying the latest speed gadget. I don't even use a knotmeter on my 19 because if she is trimmed correctly not only is she much more fun to sail but she will be making her best speed anyway. Keep in mind that good sails and good sail trim are the Formula One engines that propel our party barges. And I'll drink to that. Can we hear that horn again Greg!!!
The above opinions expressed are those of a sailor and do not represent the views of any sane person.
Ron
http://www.1motormart.com/sounds/naut0042.wav
Hey Ron, Heading down your way...probably sooner than later. No definite plans yet, but outside chance might be as soon as next week!
Ron,
I am on Captiva right now. Where are you exactly? Who I really feel sorry for are the sea cows- the prop marks on their backs tell the whole story.
Quote from: newt on June 01, 2009, 03:18:26 PM
Ron,
I am on Captiva right now. Where are you exactly? Who I really feel sorry for are the sea cows- the prop marks on their backs tell the whole story.
Newt - I live in Punta Gorda on the north of the Peace River just west of IH 75. My old Picnic Cat sails out of Dinkins Bayou on the west side of Captiva.
Is Captiva your home or are you visiting?
Yeah the Manatees are very vulnerable and unfortunately all too often boaters ignore the speed zones for Manatees, but of course the same group ignore the safety of anyone on the water. I've done the miserable mile a few times, and no where is it more obvious that there are many boaters that shouldn't be. I've been pushed out of that narrow channel by the wake off of big power boats that refuse to slow for anyone. Boy would a bazooka be nice to have aboard.
I was just down here chartering. Your thunderstorms done chased me away, I am now in a hotel room with a flight tomorrow. My wife has land sickness- she just told me how she wished she was back on the boat for a while so she won't feel so sick. Ha! Thats a change. Anyway maybe next time we can meet up if I go by your Marina.
Quote from: newt on June 02, 2009, 07:58:05 PM
I was just down here chartering. Your thunderstorms done chased me away, I am now in a hotel room with a flight tomorrow. My wife has land sickness- she just told me how she wished she was back on the boat for a while so she won't feel so sick. Ha! Thats a change. Anyway maybe next time we can meet up if I go by your Marina.
Yeah Newt the summer storms here can be pretty ominous, especially the lightening. I have found myself leaving the lanai for the protection of the living room in a few of these storms. Water spouts are an awesome sight however but never been on the water near one - got to be scary.
Do your next charter before May or after October and you will not likely encounter bad weather except when cold fronts manage to make their way this far south.
ComPacs may not be the fastest sailboat out there but they certainly are not in the "barge" category either. All boat designs are compromises, like many things in life, and the ComPacs offer a great all around sailing experience in addititon to there fine looks. Properly set up and sailed, Com Pacs are fine sailboats.
WE LOVE OUR ComPac 19!!!!
No barges here, Gil
Gil - it pains me to continue this wildly off topic conversation when I really meant to address the specific advantages of mid boom sheeting. However I feel that I have been grossly misunderstood on my remarks of embellishment. Please understand that a debate is not personal nor antagonistic but is a concerted expression of opposing opinions.
"Barge" is defined in my dictionary as - "a roomy pleasure boat", and makes no reference to being slow. Now if that isn't a poignant description of my Compac 19, then I'll eat my Ultimate Hat. Of course if you disagree with that description as it pertains to your 19 then I retract my "barge" reference for you.
I'm sure the negative connotations of the word barge as is often applied to sailboats was the work of egotistical racing sailors who wished to promote their own image. I have drunk beer alongside the Annapolis racing crowd, and haven't found their exploits especially interesting. Luckily, I don't have an image to promote.
Me - I am perfectly happy with my 19 foot party barge - thank you. Can we get that horn again Greg?
If we're not having fun, then why are we doing this?
Ron
I LOVE MY BARGE!
Bob23, happy not drinking beer with my pinky finger sticking out!
In a desperate attempt to return to the original topic;
I went to a nautical flea market yesterday in Forked River, NJ and picked up a complete traveller with blocks and all the fixins for 5 clams. And mainsheet blocks and bail for another 5 clams. One step closer to changing over to mid-boom sheeting. Can't wait to be released from the entanglement back at the stern and to regain some control over my recalsitrant mainsail!
I love those flea markets...got quarts of bottom paint for 2 1/2 clams (The sunfish don't care much about brand or color; she just doesn't like barnacles), a mahogany manuvering board for 10 clams, and an inflatable hippopotomos for 3 bucks. Of course, as some of you know, I really like to gab so gab I did and in the process of having some good gabs, missed some good deals. Like the Magma grill for 5 dollars or the large anchor for 5 dollars. Yeah, like I need another anchor! Such is the case of a gab-a-holic!
In the next few weeks, I'll sort some of the stuff out and hopefully start the changeover to mid-boom. Or maybe both! Who knows?
Bob23- the tinkerer!
Bob - gabbing is good - it's the most expedient way of sailors to promote the folklore of ye olde salty sea tales.
Congrats on the bargains - a few less clams than the boat store - you may have enough left for some chowder.
Good luck on the traveler project - I found that on my 19 the attachment point on the boom was about 40% of the length from the aft end so the risk of boom damage is not significant. I put the traveler track at the aft edge of the bridge deck to minimize sheet contact with the cockpit forward bulkhead and so the sheet would be clear of the bimini top when centered. The only problem I have discovered with the traveler track location was when I finally figured out where I was getting all those shin scrapes - but now that I am aware the problem seems to have gone away.
Catch a breeze
Ron
Yes I love my C-P 19 barge as well. Horn or no horn.
I posted a picture of the end sheet Garhauer four purchase in-line block on Frappr that replaced the factory side by side two gang block that always tangled.
Note the black tapped u-clamp that is attached to the back stay of Comfort & Joy . This ss cable is fitted with a Q/D and snaps into a hole in the end boom casting. It is a cheap boom holder-upper.
And a picture of the Garhauer boom vang attached to the cleat in the slot at the base of the mast. And attached to my cut-to-size and riveted on boom bail. The smallest they [West Marine] sells. Steel rivets.
I went with Garhauer because the factory deck organizers are also the same Mfg.
skip.