Three days ago I brought my "new" 1977 CP 16 home. I thought she had just lain under a north Texas pecan tree the past 10 years or so. If that's all that had happened, I wouldn't be in half the trouble I am now. Turns out the hatch had been opened and for the last so many years, the interior had basically been one huge swamp type bathtub. No wonder there weren't any cushions. When I finally got below, I found that that the side berths were completely rotted out. So, I pulled out wet, matted, decayed plywood only to find something that looks like a huge, petrified dinosaur dropping. It was that hard, brittle type foam used back in the 70's. That's the stuff under your berth although it doesn't fill it the entire way. There's quite a bid of dead space, too. The fiberglass floor came loss once the berths were removed. The floor is basically just a U shaped pan running fore & aft. When it came out, I found concrete under it. Lots of concrete. It also had started to crumble and break apart so I had to use a shovel to remove quite a bit of it. The bulwark which holds the compression post under the mast had rotten through, too, of course. As had the wooden floor under the bow. Basically, I ripped out the entire inside of the CP 16 and got down to concrete and green colored, very thickly woven fiberglass. I took a hose and just blasted it all out, nice & clean. This week new concrete will go in and I'll start the process of rebuilding the berths but with a little twist. If anybody is interest in any photos of this mess, I'll be happy to post them. Now you can see why I bought this little girl so inexpensively. This will be a true labor of love.
The sails sat in this mess. Guess how they look. Can anybody tell me where I can find new ones?
Rick,
Sails can be had at any loft. One word of warning. The factory site has listed the P (luff on the main sail) as 16.25 and it is really 15.25. If you deal with a local loft take the old main with you to get the measurement right.
If you can sew Sail Rite makes kits. Much cheaper.
Craig
Thanks Craig, I appreciate the sail size info. I was confused by different sizes I saw posted at different web sites by sailmakers. I wish I had a main to take in. What's left of it after sitting underwater for 8 years or so is basically nothing. So, I measured the mast track and the boom thinking that would give me an idea but your reply gave me more specific info. Thanks again.
Thanks Craig, I appreciate the sail size info. I was confused by different sizes I saw posted at different web sites by sailmakers. I wish I had a main to take in. What's left of it after sitting underwater for 8 years or so is basically nothing. So, I measured the mast track and the boom thinking that would give me an idea but your reply gave me more specific info. Thanks again.
Hi Rick,
your description of the condition is really serious! :( But I'm glad you're not losing heart... the 16 is such a fine boat, you'll enjoy it for many years, and appreciate that you've restored it! I just had a thought that the hollow sound is very likely to be either water damage to the glass, or to the concrete behind the glass. Have you considered that you might be well off to pull the rub rail and examine the joint there? with that much water for that long, if that needs fixing up, why not just take the deck right off? I have worked on a lot of equipment over the years, and sometimes the biggest part of the repair battle is accessing and assessing what needs repair. By removing the deck, you'll save days in your interior restoration. You'll maybe decide to completely remove the concrete so you can fully assess the hull. Your project is huge, but I would suggest that this boat is worthy of a first-class restoration, and with that much standing water, a complete overhaul would pay you back in the LONG run, though maybe more cost up front. Also, I read one guy put a lead ballast into a cp19, same weight but lower center of gravity. All these options would be available to you once you really did a thorough tear-down. You should really chronicle and photograph this project, as it might be a real help to others wanting to do the same thing. I look forward to hearing more about your "long journey to the water". Take care, fair winds..........
bro t. from Upwest Maine
HI Rick,
I too have a 1977 CP-16, in just about as bad of shape,due to be
refurbished this winter. She, the SEAHEART was severly neglected for about 10 years. I loaned her to my brother-in-law, don't ever do that to anything you might ever want to use again. I do have a main, jib and 150
genny, good enough for patterns.
I lived in the Austin-San Antonio area for about 20 years, sailed some on
Canyon Lake, but mainly Lake Travis, before retiring to Rockport,TX
I sail a CP23 LAGNIAPPE now, that keeps me plenty busy.
I will be in San Antonio on December 4, for a conference an could bring the sails along if you would like to borrow them for a pattern. There are some sail lofts on Lake Travis that do good work, The original sails were
made by Johnson Sails, in Clearwater, Fl.
E-mail me at donperry1@charter.net, or call @(361)729-5305 or send a private message on this forum
Don Perry
DREAMCHASER
Hi Rick -
I'll make a spot for you and your boat over in the Photo Gallery under the owners pages. You can chronicle your restoration there. :) Looking forward to see those pictures...
Congrats on the new old boat! This may sound funny, but you have a great opportunity there - I kind of wish I could gut my 23, and rebuild her just so... :)
I totally agree with the previous posts about taking the deck off. Both for ease of access and to have the complete confidence in that joint for future peace of mind.
There is a photo gallery of a deck attachment restoration which will inspire you... that boat came out beautifully... red hull... I can't find the link right now, but someone else may have it handy.
I also love the idea of doing a lead ballast for a lower CG with the same weight. I remember hearing somewhere that the weight was somewhat forward (with a hollow area toward the rear of the keel).
You won't be needing sails right away... but I just got a new set (full batten main and 155 genoa for a good price and they work great. You might want to check out Dirk... He HAS the current spec as he remade my main at no charge after finding the error in the factory spec...
Their quote is as follows:
Mainsail - 4oz dacron, standard battens, 1 reef, slugs on luff, rope foot, standard headboard - $270
155% genoa - 3oz dacron, hanks on luff - $174
National Sail Supply (Rolly Tasker Sails, Florida)
14042 Marquette Blvd.
Fort Myers, FL 33905
http://www.nationalsail.com/
Toll Free (within US) 1-800-611-3823
Outside US 239-693-1896
Fax 239-693-5504
Best of luck ...we'll be following the story with great interest.\
These projects can't be approached from any kind of quantifiable perspective... there is simply an intrinsic value and satisfaction that comes from the process. You are sure to have years of pleasure to come from the work.
Fair Winds
Dale
Michael Quigley restored a CP 16. His pictorial chronicle is at:
http://intranet.quigley.com/gallery/view_album.php?set_albumName=restoration
Michael repaired the hull to deck joint but I don't think he actually separated the two.
Craig
Capt K, how do I download my photos to chronicle the restoration of Sweet Laraine (she has a name now). I've actually kept a diary of the project for those tempted to do the same one day. I'd be happy to post photos for anyone insane enough to want to restore another homeless CP16.
I've decided not to remove the deck from the hull. It's "do-able" but would add another dimension entirely to the project. Although it would definitely make the interior restoration so much easier, I'm not sure the savings in time would offset the effort required to remove and then reattach the deck. Not that getting around inside is all that easy. This morning I braved claustrophobia and went head first down both berths with paintbrush in hand to apply the first coat of a good topside paint. I know a roller and extension handle would have been easier but it wouldn't have allowed me to get into the nooks & crannies of the bilge. At 6'2' and 230 pounds, this wasn't the easiest job in the world but it wasn't as bad as I thought. Of course, the paint fumes doubtlessly resulted in profound brain damage but I doubt my wife will notice the difference in me anyway.
I appreciate all of you hints and suggestions and offers to lend me your sails so I can take accurate measurements for replacements. I think I've got the exact size now and will be placing my order for new canvas shortly.
I'm trying multiple experiments to restore the hull gloss ranging from sandpaper, rubbing compound and wax to Poli Glo to paint. I'll let you know what I have found to be the best. Even Johnson's Future Acrylic floor wax is in the running.
Rick -
Are you using a digital camera, or have you scanned the photo's so that they are on your computer? If so...
Go to the Gallery (http://www.com-pacowners.com/4images), and register there (you can use the same user name and password as what you use here at the Forum). Once registered, log in and go to the Owners Pages section - I already made you a spot there, click on your name to get your page.
On the page, in the upper right, is a box labeled "Upload". Clicking that gets you to the upload form where you put in the information and photo. Once you get the info in, at the bottom of the page is the Submit button that sends it all to the server.
Your photo's can be up to 2 megabytes in size, but I'm sure that dial-up users will appreciate it if you keep the file size of the photo down as much as possible without making it too ugly. :) 30-50k file size photo's with dimensions 400x600 or better are nice.
Let me know if you have any other questions. There is also some info on photo posting in the Help section of the Forum here.
Hi,
about the photo size, even though it says '2 megabyte', the limiting factor actually is the pixels, I think it was 1024 x 1024? Anyway, I couldnn't get a photo to upload until I used my photoeditor to reduce the resolution to below that maximum pixel count. Fortunately, I figured it out without too many tries (4?).
bro. t. from Upwest Maine
Quote from: bro tHi,
about the photo size, even though it says '2 megabyte', the limiting factor actually is the pixels, I think it was 1024 x 1024? Anyway, I couldnn't get a photo to upload until I used my photoeditor to reduce the resolution to below that maximum pixel count.
Oops, forgot to add that in - it is limited both ways - by file size (up to 2 megs) and also by screen size (up to 1024x1024). Thanks for the reminder bro t. :)
800 pixels wide is probably a safe size to use in order to keep people from having to scroll to see your whole picture.
Guys,
The cowboy who owned my CP16 found the old mainsail in his barn. I picked it up and it has the texture of an old, well washed T shirt. No stiffness at all. I stepped the mast and bent the sails on and found the boom sagged aft terribly. If I attached the topping lift to make the boom horizontal, the roach in the main was grossly excessive and full.
I took measurements and the P measurement (from the masthead to the top of the boom where the mainsail tack is) was 14'4". Now I'm really confused. Craig indicated the factory specs are off and that the P measurement isn't 16.3 but really 15.3. I think Craig is obviously correct since an extra foot of luff would take the sail to the cabin top. However, I'm a foot shorter than 15.3. The boom has a lug which slides into the mast track. If the boom is above (i.e. higher) than the cut out in the mast track, then the measurement is about 14'4" from boom to masthead. If I lower the boom past the cut out more down towards the cabin room, then the correct measurement appears to be about 15'4"
So, HELP!!!!! Anybody know the correct P measurement. Also, I need to know if when the boom is connected to the mast by the slide lug, if it should go up towards the masthead or down towards the cabin roof. If the former, then it seems my measurement should be 14.4. If the latter, then the 15.3 measurement makes sense. However, I again want to mention that this appears to be the original sail which I measured (it has the Compac Logo on it) and the measurement is 14.4. WHAT DO YOU GUYS THINK? I'M AT A TOTAL LOSS. I could sure use your input.
Rick, with the mainsail raised and a tight downhaul, the boom is below the cutout in the mast's sail track. Just measured it in the drive way and the 15'3" looks correct. Hope this helps.
Hi Rick,
perhaps the forestay is not properly adjusted? If the mast is raked aft even slightly, it would have an exaggerated effect in dropping the aft end of the boom. If you haven't already checked, try bending on the main again, then stand back abeam and see what you think of the mast rake. Maybe you have a simple fix, somebody maybe monkeyed with the forestay tension to step and unstep the mast. Fair winds, as always.
bro. t. from Upwest Maine
Rick,
My boat is all buttoned up for the winter so I can't measure, but the boom definately goes below the cut out on the mast. I'm trying to figure out how you got the boom in the track above the cut out if there is a stop in the way? My stop is a a few inches from the tabernacle end of the mast and with the main fully raised I have to tighten the downhaul to get the boom to touch it.
Also, if the main is not too badly stained or not ripped, it may be worth sending it to SailCare for reconditioning. You can find them at:
http://www.sailcare.com/
Crraig
Thanks so much for your help in determining the size of the sail. It seem that the P measurement must be around 15'3". I have no idea why the old mainsail the cowboy gave me measured 14.4 but maybe the bolt rope shrunk or something. The luff certainly seems compressed to the point of almost being scalloped.
For those of you interested in seeing Sweet Laraine, I have posted pictures in the owners gallery now. They should be up by tonight or tomorrow. What a mess!
Two quick questions.
First, in getting a new mainsail made, should I have the luff attach to the mast with a bolt rope or with sail slugs? The original was with a bolt rope but I think Dale had sail slugs put on his new sail. Which works better? I would think slugs would allow for easier flaking of the main at day's end but I worry that the less than tight fit to the mast would further impair the already impaired pointing ability of the CP 16.
Second, where in the world does the battery go in these boats? I see that they have running lights and other electrical components like a cabin light. My forepeak area is flat with no anchor locker. There is a little hatch cut into the forepeack but it only provides about 8 inches clearance from hull to top which isn't enough room for the battery. It would stick out of the hole.
Thanks again for holding my hand as I go through this project.
Rick
Rick,
Slugs or bolt rope? I think it is all a matter of personal preference. I have the bolt rope and it works fine. Gil has slugs and he seems happy with those.
The battery when installed by the factory goes in the "anchor locker" and I use that description with a smile! :D The originals did not have an electrical system, and the anchor locker was a small area forward of a short bulkhead in the forepeak. I installed an electrical system in my 1980. I used a group 24 battery box placed in the center of the anchor locker forward of the bulkhead.
I have a PDF file of the last CP 16 brochure. It shows an interior shot with the last version of the anchor locker. It looks like Com-Pac attached a U shaped plywood cover to the bulkhead. The battery box is visible (barely) in the center behind the compression post. If you send me your email address I will forward the PDF file to you.
Craig
Craig -
send it to kurt AT com-pacownersDOT com also, I'll rip it to an image we can post on the Gallery.
Slugs V/S Rope?
The slugs go up and down the slot easy. If you put enough tension on the halyard, you get a straight luff line. It also makes reefing easier. Also if you are coming into port just to pick up or drop off you can leave the sail stop in and just lower and fold the main and have it ready to go back up without rethreading the rope up.
Battery:
Definitely up front... you want to offset the weight of the passengers and motor etc in the stern. Some people like to place it as low as possible, so they put them on the cabin sole. I like having the porta potty under the hatch at the rear of the sole and I need the floor clear to step on for lowering the main or fooling with other sail related stuff (clearing a hung jib line or setting and taking down the whisker pole etc) I mounted a battery frame instead of a box. It has two bolts from the base and a frame piece on the top that holds the battery firmly in place... also... you will want to go with an AGM battery as it will not leak when you heel over... it will also not emit hydrogen gas when you charge it (especially nice in a confined area like the bow).
Here is the link to the restoration job I mentioned earlier
http://intranet.quigley.com/gallery/view_album.php?set_albumName=restoration
As Craig mentioned, he didn't actually remove the deck, but it shows a little of what is involved. Also in the compac manual there is a drawing of a cross section of the hull/deck joint. I'll try scanning or shooting it and sending it along so you can see what is in between... it's not much.. just some microballoon filler and the wood strip screwed in from the inside.
The measurement on the sail is definitely 15'4". I've been through this with the factory and a sailmaker. The boom slides down from the slot but not all the way down.
After going through what you're about to do... you owe yourself a present and you owe the boat a new set of sails... (keep the others for your "B" rig)
Fair winds in the future
Dale
Rick, All four of my boats had slugs so I can't compare performance with a standard bolt rope, but they work fine. My only issue is when attempting to flake the sail on the boom the slugs fall out the sail track cutout.
As far as the battery is concerned, I have a big deep-cycle for the trolling motor in the hatch under the tiller and use screw-terminal 6 volt batteries in the compartment in front of the compression post for the running lights. I mostly sail during the day, but they work well when I need them.
You can buy, or make up, a bolt like fitting that slides into your sail track after all the slugs are in place that locks down. This keeps the slugs from sliding our when you stow your sail.
The device is like a 1/4 inch bolt about 3/4 of an inch long. The head portion slides into the sail track and a 1" round threaded "nut" tightens on to close up the bottom of the track.
I bought one made out of stainless steel for about 8 bucks at my local sailmaker's shop.
I'm with Dale on the slugs/bolt rope question. I have slugs on Epiphany, and used to sail Hobie 16's a lot, which had bolt ropes.
One thing not mentioned yet is that slugs, besides being easier to hoist and drop, also make your sail last longer - you don't get abrasion from the fabric against the sail track. On the Hobies that was a big problem - every couple of years, you'd need to fix up the fabric in the area of the tack, it would always wear out first. Something to keep in mind...
My last boat used a rope. It made a beautiful seal between the mast and the sail, but is was nowhere as easy to take the sail up and down. The rope stretches over time and you will need to have a sailmaker stretch and remove a short section or else the sail will jam everytime you raise it.
If you are a serious racer (most CP sailors are not) you would want the rope, otherwise go withe slugs as they are much easier to deal with. Typically, the act of raising and lowering sail can have some safety issues and the easier the sails go up and down, the better I like it.
I have found the CP16 to be a lazy crew's best boat to sail. My wife and I can perform just about all the required sailing functions without ever leaving our seats.
I've been keeping a daily journal of what's entailed in the restoration of Sweet Laraine. If anybody's interested, I'll put it on a web site for review. Lots of editorial comments such as what happened today. Trying to lay new carpet inside Sweet Laraine was interrupted when the toilet violently overflowed. My wife was less than understanding when I wanted to go to West Marine for some electrical wiring. After two hours of trying to unplug whatever plugged the plumbing, I declared the problem unsolvable and plan on summoning the plumber in the morning. My frazzled wife (the original Sweet Laraine by the way), was at wits end, in part due to the toilet and in part due to one my sons who recently graduated from Columbia and is en route to San Francisco to begin life but not before cleaning his room per Mom's instructions. Anyway, I told her to join me in the garage with a glass of wine while I worked on her namesake. She complied and, just as she was relaxing with a nice red Spanish wine, a huge Texas snake made it's appearance. Of course, her chair took the opportunity to collapse although, to her credit, she held her wineglass all the way down. My son appeared and we tried to salvage the snake to be taken far from home. Having other plans, the snake bolted into the garage behinds years of accumulated junk. We pushed aside coolers, gas cans and the like and, lo and behold, the snake appeared. Our original charitable intentions having faded, we pounded it to death with blood pouring onto the garage floors (Texas snakes are large). I'm not sure my wife will want to participate further in the restoration of Sweet Laraine.
Rick, I think perhaps the snake was intended to solve your plumbing problems! I've heard that many people use snakes to clear a clogged toilet... maybe you have to bait it with a rat or something? Should we properly assume you DID NOT attempt to clear the toilet by flushing the poor pummelled snake? :cry:
Also, thanks for posting your pics, it looks like a great boat, and you're doing some nice work! Do you have a bowsprit? I couldn't tell from the photos. ttfn 8)
bro t. from Upwest Maine
We've recovered from the snake incident although I can't say I'm looking forward to laying down on the garage floor again while putting on the bottom paint. At least I was able to scrub the snake blood away last night. Ironically, I had used a metal snake in my effort to open the clogged plumbing and had set it outside the garage to dry. It was there that the real snake appeared? Maybe some kind of misguided love interest between the two.
Anyway, Sweet Laraine does not have a bowsprit. She's hull number 546 which was apparently some time before that was added. Because I tend to nose into docks bow first to offload passengers, I'm hesitant to add one. Do they make that big a difference? To cure the anticipated weather helm, I ordered the Idasailor foiled rudder and have a 150% genoa. I'm hoping that will do the trick.
BTW, I was able to purchase a brand new, fully battened main (complete with slugs and one set of reef points), a 150% genoa with CDI roller furling and protective sun strip on the leech for a grand total of about $800.00. Obvoiusly, the roller furling & protective cover drove the price up. If anybody is just interested in a new main & genoa, they can be had from National Sail for something in the ballpark of $450.00.
I'll be posting new pics soon showing the status of the restoration. The entire interior was gutted and has now been rebuilt. The old gray paint was removed and three coats of West Marine's best topside linear polyurethane applied. I made the mistake of using white paint which makes the cabin bright but cheap looking. So, after the first coat, I had it tinted to an off white (not quite almond) and the result was so much more pleasing to the eye. I'm not using cushions since, at my size, I can't afford to lose any more headroom by sitting on an extra inch of padding. Instead, I've all but finished cutting and laying a Navy blue ribbed indoor/outdoor carpeting in the forepeak and both berths. When you see the pictures, I hope you all agree it looks great. I'm just finishing up on some wiring which I'm running under the berths to a bus mounted near the companionway entrance along with a stereo system. She's gonna look good.
Hi Rick...
I know that you aren't planning to lift the deck.. but I said that I'd send this image from the manual about what's in the joint.
http://www.com-pacowners.com/4images/details.php?image_id=212
Best of luck... you've got the winter to work now... it's actually bearable to be in a garage (New Orleans summers rival Texas or Fla. or so I'm told)
Dale
Dale, thanks for the cut out diagram on the deck. I was sorely tempted to remove the entire deck since it would have made crawling around so much easier. However, I just didn't have it in me. I figured the weight of the deck would have made lifting it hard or, worse yet, that I might break it if lifted improperly. But, although it took a lot more time, I think I've just about got the cabin done. It's amazing to me just how much time I spent refurbishing such a tiny space. I haven't spent that many hours working on my house in the last year.
Anyway, for those of you interested, I have a web site with more photos. You can see it under the Sweet Laraine section at www.evanssailing.com. Don't mind the other goofy stuff there.
I know... this "just messing about with boats" can be quite addicting... I am self employed, so the "discipline problem" of doing real media production has come up... since both my studio and the boat are both downstairs off the garage area.
It's kinda like... mentally you're out there sailing when you are working on the boat. ENJOY! It's really satisfying... oddly... you may feel a loss when you complete it... but there will always be "little tweaks" and project lists. That's somehow reassuring in a way.
Dale
You're right Dale. Working on boats can get addicting. Somebody coined some phrase once to the effect that "nothing's better than messing around on boats."
I want to thank everybody for all their help in my restoration project. Believe it or not, I'm about 75% done with the restoration. I'll post some updated pictures soon. The entire cabin has been rebuilt from bare hull outwards. I poured more cement in last night in the bow to form a flat surface to hold a wheelchair battery. Using a plywood template which I sunk into the concrete, I created an indentation to hold the battery. Also some upside down U bolts were sunk to either side of the indentation which will hold a bungee to further secure the battery.
I also put the final coat of Cetol and Interlux non skid additive on a plywood piece of birch which I have cut to fit the cabin sole. A ribbed outdoor carpeting has been glued in place along with stainless steel staples to give a custom fit to the forepeak and both berths. All wiring was first run through conduit under the berths and secured in place with expanding foam (which you never, ever want to get on your skin, trust me). I'm still waiting for the sails to arrive but the CDI furler is already in. The bottom has been sanded clean and the old knotmeter paddle wheel through hull hole has been patched with three sheets of biaxial fiberglass cloth and copious amounts of epoxy. I rebuilt the motor mount and the rudder stock has been stripped clean and given several coats of a linear polyurethane paint. The wood bright work has been stripped and sanded smooth and is now on it's second coat of Cetol. After all this work, I sure hope she sails.
Hi Rick,
the quote you refer to is from The Wind in the Willows by Kenneth Grahame, in which Mole reveals to Ratty that he's never been in a boat before! "What?" cried Ratty. "Believe me, there is nothing -- absolutely nothing -- half so much worth doing, as simply messing about in boats." :D A neat little company makes t's, sweats, and tote bags to this effect, I bought the tote years ago at the Wooden Boat Show, it serves me well for water, snacks and towels, and lies in the hall ready to sail at a moments notice from June thru October. Their website is //www.messingabout.com and the magazine is the whole phrase messingaboutinboats.com', but that's articles, news, cool smallboat stuff, etc. We Compac'ers may have transgressed the wood vs. fiberglass line, but fun vs. maintenance IS an issue for some of us, too. I respect those who build wooden boats, I've done a small rowboat myself, but it takes a hunk of time, and I'm also on too steep a place in the learning curve to build something my family of 6 can all (safely) squeeze onto. Take care, I enjoyed your postings and pics. You'll LOVE your new cp16!
Rick, (or anyone with the knowledge)
I just purchased (yesterday) a 1989 16/3 and am fortunate that my girl is presently serciceable and a delight to sail. Though, I did find that the plywood underlying the side berths on my boat was also rotted. The water appears to have found it's way in via a leaky companionway, as new puddles appeared there after washing her. What has been your experience with repairing/replacing these fixtures? (Please keep in mind that I never took "shop" in high school, so this is OJT) Will any marine grade plywood work here? Any special way of fixing it to the bulkhead, etc? Other recommendations?
Thanks for your help!
VR,
Jonathan Clarke
Hi Jonathan,
Read your post and I have some potential information for you re leaks, etc. Two and a half years ago I bought a pristine looking 1990 CP16/3. To make a long story short, it had 3 sources of water getting into the cabin - leaking scuppers, rub rail leaks and leaking round hatches on the seats at the stern.
It took me a bit to figure where the water was coming in. I found the bilge area at the stern full of water afterr sailing or a heavy rain. (I would reach in through the inspection hatches on the seats)
I wound upp removing the rub rail and resealing the hull deck joint, replacing the inspection hatches and bedding the mounting plates real good and sealing the scuppers both inside and outside. The scuppers were the worst leak and the hatches second.
There is much info on all this on the Yahoo site. It is all evidentally a common thing due to aging, even in fairly young CP16's like ours.
My wife and I love the boat . . . .these craft are comfortable and stable and great sailing bots!
Jonathan,
If water came in just by washing your boat, it shouldn't be that hard to pin it down. If I were you, I'd dry it thoroughly and then seal it up with you in the cabin. Then, have your wife or kids blast away with the hose at every angle they can think of while you watch for water. If it's not obvious, one old trick is to apply a thin layer of talcum powder over the inside of the boat. When you wash it from the outside, the talcum powder should show the source of the leak. Yes, I know. It's a little messy but it makes the boat smell nice and is very easily vacuumed.
If it is the companionway door, you can order a new one from ComPac. They aren't terribly expensive and are cut to fit perfectly. I can do wood work well enough but I found it easier just to buy it. They sell solid teak and a teak laminate which is less expensive and just as good. Before you put on a few coats of Cetol or Armada, just use acetone on a rag to clean the finish of teak's naturally oily surface. The companionway is pretty good a keeping water out but, unlike a larger sea going craft, isn't completely water tight.
You'll want to do something about those rotting plywood berths. Mine were totally shot and I had to remove them completely and replace them with half inch marine grade plywood which I cut to fit. You may be able to get away with drying them well and then mixing up an epoxy resin to paint them with. You can also saturate some fiberglass cloth and press it into your epoxy paint job and paint over the cloth to provide a super stiff and solid base. You might also consider drilling a few holes into the plywood and then squirting into the cavity some of that expanding foam you can buy at Home Depot. Just don't over do it.
Hi,
I have a 1988 16-3 and have finally stopped a minor but aggravating leak onto the port cabin berth. At first I thought it was coming from the chain plate/rub rail notch. After taking it apart and sealing it... I still had a tiny streak of wet on the port side but only after sailing in really rough conditions. I did what Gil suggested and stood inside the cabin while spraying the side and voila! a small trickle of water was coming in around the forward port hole. I had taken them off to paint them black and thought I had gooped them enough when replacing them. The area is now dry when sailing AND washing it down. So go inside and keep a look out for leaks.
The previous owner had already done the scupper area and my bilge area stays totally dry.
You are sure to have years of enjoyment from this great little boat.
Dale
I too have been busy ripping up dry rot, painting and cutting in new woodwork in the cabin. The previous owner had floored planks across both berths. I've cut out the midsection and gained 4.5 inches of headroom! :D In a 16's cabin, that's a lot of space. My plan is to use a cockpit footwell cover for sleeping in the cockpit on summer nights, and when necessary, moving the same cover below between the berths to give us a wider sleeping area. I plan to mastic and lay linolium between the berths. I also made cockpit cushions that can also double as mattresses below.
I'm about done with the rudder foil ( 18 ga aluminum over 5/8th in nylon ribs. I routed out a 1/4 in. slot in each rib and slid the up the rudder blade.
I was delighted to learn the purpose of the pvc plug and pipe under the forespeak. I knew it was too small for a fishing line and a silly design for a drain. Everytime I look here I learn something new. Great community for obsessed sailors.
Once my son shows up with a digital camera, I'll post some shots.
By the way, outside of the lazareth hatch, what inspection hatches does a 16/3 have that we don't?
The 16/3 does not have a lazarrette. It was replaced by a teak seat with fuel tank storage underneath. Two round hatches were added on each seat. For those who like an outboard with external fuel it allows for greater range. I like the easy access to storage through the lazarrette.
Craig
Fellas, I just put the sliding hatch and find that it hits the companionway drop door. There isn't enough room to lift the hatch up and over the door. I ordered the door from Com Pac and it looks to be a good fit but the fact remains that when the hatch is slid forward, it hits the door. I can't lift the hatch upwards to go up and over the door because the wood trim pieces on either side of the hatch don't allow for much, if any, vertical movement. Any suggestions? Cut the hatch down. Put washers under the wood trim pieces to raise their height so the hatch can be lifted up a half inch or so? Help!
Rick
Hey Rick -
I have to lift Epiphany's hatch a bit to sneak it over the boards. I think cutting your new ones down just a smidgin would be easiest. I wonder if Hutchins ships them just a bit large on purpose, so that noone will have them a bit too small? Hmmm, the mysteries of the Universe... ;)
Hi Rick, I would be much more inclined to leave the top alone if it had a nice finished edge, and take a very slight amount off the side(s). Remember that with the trapezoid shape you might only have to shave off 1/16 inch from the edge to get 1/4 inch or more drop in height. Less is more here, even a sander might take off enough to do the job, and then you haven't messed with a factory cut. But, if they left a ratty edge, I s'pose that might be the cut to take. Good fittin'!
You should be able to raise the horizontal sliding hatch a bit then it drops down over the top edge of the vertical companionway hatchboard. At least that's how mine is. It kind of keeps the top sliding hatch in place.
Dale :?
What started as an innocent, "let's fix the cabin up," has turned into a complete cabin overhaul for me and my new CP16.
Turns out that the brittle foam flotation under the berths acts as a wick and holds any moisture present against the fiberglass hull and wood below decks. Not good. I've ripped all of it out down to the hull to start fesh with the berths. Some of the supporting wood was wet (but not rotten) and I intend to salvage it with some Minwax wood saver.
After a thorough drying, I plan to fiberglass any remaining wood bulkheads into proper bilges, complete with a water resistant bilge paint. Adds weight, yes, but prevents future water problems (and adds hull stiffness). A water resistant replacement for the flotation is yet to be determined. Any suggestions?
Finally, new plywood berths are in order (high quality exterior grade plywood), fiberglassed to the bulkheads and painted with alkyd enamel.
I have not dismantled the forpeak structures, but they seem dry enough, as far as I can feel. Any comments or suggestions? I hope not to mess with this part unless somenone can convince me I REALLY need to.
Thanks fot the forum and comments/suggestions.
-Jonathan Clarke
Beaufort, SC
Jonathan,
The front of the older 16s is pretty easy to inspect. There is an inspection part that allows you to feel the bulkheads. If it's all solid that you can feel I wouldn't mess with.
Keep your project documented with pictures and post them for us to see.
Craig
Foam flotation is closed cell foam so I don't understand how it would act as a wick relative to water. It should resist water. On the other hand, open cell foam, like what is in the bunk cushions, sucks up water like a sponge.
I'm not sure if the under-berth flotation is open or closed cell, but it was very wet and so was the adjacent plywood and fiberglass. I would recommend pulling all of this out and replacing it. Not sure what to replace it with, though.
My forepeak structures feel dry and solid (through the inspection port), so I'm not touching them.
I will get photos up soon.
-Jonathan
Jonathan,
My 27 year old CP 16 sat with water filling the cabin like a bathtub for ten years. You can imagine what the insides were like. The wood was all still there but the consistency of wet paper towels. It just shredded apart. I ripped it out and made a template by which to fit new marine grade plywood in place. You probably are going to find that you won't be able to make the berths as long as they originally were. There just isn't enough room to slide in a piece of plywood over 8 feet long. I think the best I could do was something like 93 inches or thereabouts. It left it about 10 inches short in the aft section which, in my view, is meaningless. I'm 6'2" and still have much more than enough room to stretch out.
I used pressure treated 2 x 4s running down the cabin sole on either side of the berths to support them. They went on either side of the cement bilge. Unlike the original CP16 in which the berths come to a V shaped point forward, mine are cut straight. You can see pictures of them on the owners gallery web site under Sweet Laraine. Cutting the berths straight really opened the cabin considerably. I can also slide a cooler forward whereas before the V shaped precluded that. Another "improvement" was that I cut out square holes in the plywood to have an inspection port under the berth. In case water gets it, the holes are cut over the lowest part of the hull so I could use a bilge pump to get it out. I also provides great storage. I saved the piece I cut out and fitted it to cover the hole using 1 x 2s under the plywood to hold it in place and provide extra stiffening. Then I used contractors foam and squirted it inside the berths to provide the flotation ComPac originally intended. It's not as extensive as the original flotation but is spread out over a greater area and should provide equivalent flotation.
Like you, my forepeak area was in pretty bad shape and, frankly, should have been completely replaced. However, enough of it was salvagable that I was able to do just that aided by lots of epoxy resin & fiberglass which is pretty easy to apply. Both berths and the forepeak are covered in a flat nap indoor outdoor carpet. It's still comfortable and sound deadening without adding the extra height of the cushions. I'll be posting some more pictures of Sweet Laraine today so you'll have a better idea of the finished project. Let me know if I can help.
I'm about 90% done with the restoration of Sweet Laraine thanks to all the help and input you've all given me. I posted a bunch of new pics on the owner's gallery today under Sweet Laraine if you'd like to see how she's shaping up. The transformation has been pretty remarkable. My latest project which I finished yesterday afternoon was to install CFI roller furling. That proved to be the hardest job of all since none of the original CP rigging would fit the roller furling. I had to cut the forestay, re-swage it and add various turnbuckles & plates to make it work but the effort was worth it.
Rick, did you find your sails? The best place to get them is Sailnet, www.sailnet.com. They have all the proper measurements. I am not sure what the retail price is from them. I have discovered that Sailnet will posibly send them to you quicker than ordering after market from Woody. 8) (this is me incognito)
Please note that the "P" measurement that has been published for the 16 is incorrect. It usually appears as 16.25 feet and it really is 15.25 feet. Measure carefully before you order!
Craig
I did, in fact, get the sails from National Sail in Florida. Dirk was incredibly helpful and had the proper measurements. They've arrived and are as crisp as a cotton shirt fresh from the laundry. The genoa is designed for the CFI roller furling and therefore isn't a hank on type but instead feeds up the foil. Trying to make the foil fit the original forestay rigging is a story and 6 pack of beer in itself. But, after a half dozen trips to West Marine and multiple designs, I've got one that works great now. The main feeds into the luff track by slugs which I have to admit I prefer over the rope feed. Much easier to flake. At least in my driveway. Sweet Laraine still hasn't seen water for over a decade apart from that left standing in her cabin all those years.
Sweet Laraine is all but finished. The only major project left is an epoxy bottom job. Here's my question on the eve of her maiden voyage. When trailering distances of less than an hour, can I keep the base of the mast attached to the cabin tabernacle or must it all be unstepped. I've built a mast crutch to hold the mast at the stern but would like to avoid having to take the mast off the tabernacle. It doesn't seem like it would be too much strain on the cabin roof but I must defer to those with experience. What's the collective wisdom out there?
Rick, disconnect the mast. It is worth the few minutes it takes to disconnect/reconnect the mast to avoid a much bigger problem which could arise if not. By no means would I suggest keeping it attached for transport.
I was afraid you'd say that Margie. And it makes sense. The extra few minutes saved by not disconnecting the mast isn't worth the risk to weakening or ripping out the cabin roof. I guess I was just looking for a simple way out.
One other question if anybody knows. I've got a long shaft outboard motor. Is that okay? The Com Pac literature recommends a short shaft for the CP16 but I would think long shaft couldn't hurt and, in choppy seas, would actually be better.
Most CP 16 sailors I know, including myself, use long shaft outboards. With a short shaft you would need to lower the motor mount to probably its lowest position. It is much easier not to have to do that and it is easier to use the motor when the head is higher and closer to the operator.
Long shafts are fine!
Hi Rick, the mast crutch is great to have anyway, to carry the aft end of the mast, the fore end resting on the pulpit rail. This distributes the mast weight nicely to avoid stressing the mast, keeps it off of the hatch, and also keeps the mast out of the tailgater's windshield, which is good, because accidents happen, idiots drive, and one bent mast can ruin a lot of good sailing days! I thought a longshaft was necessary for a cp16, and didn't know short was an option, but will guarantee that the long is nice in a choppy sea, and can also still get cooling water even when the motor mount is up (I know this because I've done the motor her off the rock into a headwind thing, which does NOT work with propellor on the rock). Also, the long shaft has an advantage of putting the prop below the rudder bottom, avoiding sub-hull conflicts in tight turns. Happy New Year and joyous maiden voyage in new Sweet Laraine! :D
bro t. from Upwest Maine
Rick,
Take the mast off for transport. It is simple to build a holder for the mast to rest on the pulpit.
And, I have a short shaft outboard on my 16. Works fine. The advantages of the long shaft have been noted. The advantage of the short shaft is the ease to clear the prop from the water when sailing. Yes, I have to lower the motor mount to get the prop in the water, but with a 14 lbs 2 stroke it's not hard, and I have never had any problem with the prop pitching out of the water nor getting the water intake sufficiently submerged.
The greatest advantage of the long shaft for you is that you already own it. As long as it runs good don't replace it, just use it!
Craig
What do you know about blisters? Sweet Laraine's bottom is littered with them. Nothing soft or mushy but small, almost invisible bumps here and there. Some quite small and some about the size of a quarter. She obviously has spent some extended time in the water in her prior life since blisters typically never form on boats who live on the trailer in between weekend trips to the lake. I've heard two sides to the story. Some say blisters are cosmetic only and really not a cause for concern unless deep and mushy. Others act as if a blister were the equivalent of a cancer diagnosis complete with horror stories about delamination or worse. Anybody with experience with them?
What I did was sand them along with the entire hull below the waterline. Then, I put on three coats of Interlux Micron CSC which is one of those anti foulings which you can use on boats hauled and relaunched (unlike other anti foulings which lose effectiveness when exposed to air and therefore once applied must stay immersed). By the way, the color charts by Interlux aren't exactly reliable. I bought Shark White thinking, naively, that it was white. That belief was fortified by their color chart which shows a nice, bright white color. I was a little worried when it was gray. I thought I mixed it wrong, that it was an old can of paint, or something. I called them up and learned that white is gray in their world. Anyway, do you all think this treatment is all that's necessary?
Rick,
I have small blisters that run down the port quarter from the hull to deck joint to below the waterline. I haven't done anything with them an they have not changed in the 6 years I've owned the boat. I've read one surveryor's opinion that blisters are caused by voids in the laminate from the fiberglass not being fully wetted out with resin. The Cape Dory 14 I had was truly poxed, but the underlying laminate was strong as the day it was laid up.
The only suggestion I have is next time you do the bottom add a layer of epoxy barrier coat before you put on the antifouling paint. This will help eliminate osmosis that gets water between the gel coat and the fiberglass and forms blisters.
Craig
Craig,
If the blisters haven't changed things are OK. Another cause of blistering is water or just dampness inside the hull. My GP14 hull blisterd a lot on the outside of the side flotation tanks. When I had the blisters removed and bottom coated with epoxy barrier coating, the marina shop also cut holes and installed hatches (like on the seats of my CP16) so I could leave the air tanks open when the boat was not being sailed to keep things dry inside. Condensation caused the problem.
Having been through a bout with blisters, I am a firm believer in barrier coat and then bottom paint. My CP 16's previous owner did both and I apply new bottom paint every year or two. The bottom of my hull is in perfect condition form this effort.
Rick,
I use Shark White Aquagard Bottom Paint . It is also light gray and it works great. It is water based, easy to use and doesn't smell like most bottom paint.
Thanks for the input on blisters. I wish I had put on some epoxy barrier paint first but it just slipped my mind. Hopefully, it won't make a difference. If you're interested, here's a link to a yacht broker near where we keep our other boat. He wrote an article on blistering. It's a big and very reputable brokerage so I would think he should know what he's talking about. http://www.yachtworld.com/sealake/sealake_8.html
On the other hand, I ran into a fellow who had plunked down $400,000 for a brand new Gozzard yacht. He's owned it two years of which all but a few months it's been out of the water due to major blistering problems.
Rick,
In addition to my actual experience with blisters I have read and heard lots of opinions. I believe that there are so many variables involved from a boat's actual hull construction the day it was made, to usage, water and storage conditions that anything is possible. My GP14 had a few large (quarter size) blisters on its sides above the water line that stabalized once I got the hatches put into the flotation tanks so I vcould keep the tanks dry inside. I do believe that the bottom would have become a problem had I not repaired the blisters and barrier coated it. After the work we sailed that boat three more seasons and the gelcoat remained stable. I know the guy that bought it and the bottom, two seasons later, still looks like new - and the boat is a 1967! We kept it in the water 5 months a year.
I too have heard horror stories from people whobuy a new expensive boat and it then blisters. I have heard that amny dealers don't mention barrier coating, or make a big deal about it, to kep the price down in order to make a sale.
I was lucky to find 1990 CP16 with a pristine hull, above and below the boot stripe. As mentioned, it came barrier coated and by using bottom paint the hull is still in perfect shape after we have sailed it for two seasons.
Personally, I will always use a barrier coat and then bottom paint. Some boat bottoms I see where I sail when they are hauled out for the season are UNBELIEVABLY NASTY - 2 inches of green stuff hanging off another inch of flaking bottom paint, etc. Typically these are the same boats using clothes line for the running rigging.
I wanted to share a tip with you all just in case you're as dumb as me. Sweet Laraine came with the original trailer which, despite its share of rust, was in acceptable condition. I replaced the lights which were totally shot. They didn't go on. I checked my car harness and it worked on another trailer so I new the car part of it was fine. So, I replaced the trailer lights a second time thinking the first replacement kit was somehow defective. Again, no lights went on when I connected it to the car. Yet, when I connected it directly to a 12V battery, the trailer lights went on. Any guesses what was wrong?
My trailer has a pivoting tilt mechanism on the tongue which allows one to tilt the trailer up or down when launching/retrieving the boat. The practical effect of this is that this is a two piece trailer and the rear end isn't connected to the front for purposes of grounding. It took me awhile to figure it out but finally I did. The solution is to screw a wire into the tongue leading to the rear part of the frame after the pivot point so the two parts of the trailer are electrically connnected for grounding purposes. Maybe this was easy for you guys but, for me, I was stumped.
Rick,
:D As I was reading your post (and before I got to the end) I thought to myself, "The trailer is not grounded to the tow vehichle properly." Having struggled with similar issues it's one of the first things I now check. A rusty tow ball or hitch will cause the same problems.
Craig
Are there any reports of anyone having used the tilt feature? Two boats ago I used my trailier's tilt feature with great success. Seems most CP sailors ignore it or say it doesn't work?
The grounding issue is a good one - thanks Rick
Gil,
I've got it but have never used it. My experience launching so far has never tempted me to try it. Maybe I ought to just to see how it works.
Craig
I have the Hutch Tilt Trailer for my 16 and every so often I launch at a ramp that I'll use the tilt function. Generally, I'll have to use the tilt to launch the boat but about half the time it's not necessary to tilt the trailer to recover the boat.
It's easy to use and always works great. Just don't forget to put the locking pin back in the trailer tongue.
Yo Ole RB . . . thanks for the info re the tilt function. My problem has been at retrieval. I now use an 18" hitch extender to haul my CP16 out and it keeps my tires high and dry. I have pondered using the tilt feature but never tried it. It might align the boat real well on the trailer too.
You are a lucky man owning to CP16's. That's a new one for me.
Talk about DUMB! I beat Rick, big time. This past season we hauled the boat out, cleaned it up, packed it up and then I removed the hitch extender. I didn't reseat the lynch pin in the hole in the receiver (I was behind the receiver not realizing the hitch was too far out) and when I went to "go" the hitch pulled out and the trailer plopped down. Talk about feeling DUMB! It was on grass and the "plop" was maybe 10" so no damage was done. My first mate yelled and I immediately stopped my truck. Talk about feeling stupid!!! I thought I had done all those stupid mistakes before? Live and learn! I am sipping some ole Southern Comfort here which is probably why I told this story.
(There are dumber people and better stories though . . . one guy sunk his truck at the ramp this year and there were several other mishaps. You need to really be careful launching and retrieving.
On a related topic, I just posted a picture of my wife and I in the Image Gallery in Com-Pac People (ignore the non Com-Pac boat). You all will now be able to recognize us at the Sail Expo show in Philadelphia later this month!
Regards, Ole Dumb Gil
PS/ Keep your comments to yourself regarding this post!
:D Gil,
LOL!! We've all done dumb stuff! Now I really do want to hear how someone managed to turn his truck into a submersible! :lol:
Craig
PS. Maybe it's time we start a new subject. This one has gone way off topic.
Hi Gil,
my cp16 came on a 'Magictilt' trailer, and it is VERY handy on shallow ramps. I don't put the car or truck in more than a couple inches of water, and the boat literally rolls off and on the bunks quite well, other than the launching being dry! :( The retrieval especially is easy when the tilt goes up about 2 feet, and just rolls smooth and centered. 8) How could we actually start a new subject, this one covers everything!?
Bro t,
Thanks for sharing your positive tilt trailer experiences. My trailer is the standard hutch trailer which I assume is a MagicTilt? It does have the tilt function. At my ramp, when I get the trailer far enough into the water to easily pull the boat on, it typically doesn't always go on perfectly straight. It occurred to me that by using the tilt function and not backing in so far might center the boat a tad better?
Good point on this thread going off topic. Since Rick finished his teriffic restoration of Sweet Lorraine we all kind of got side tracked here. Why don't we consider this thread closed ( unless you want to address the Sweet Lorranine project) and the next person to post a reply open a new topic?
Later, Gil
I have not had any problems launching/retrieving since I made the trailer extender... the boat just floats off and I even have to pull up some when retrieving because it actually goes a bit deep.
The tilt mechanism has always frightened me... the idea of the boat launching at an angle like that and gaining momentum... but then I do the operation with the rudder locked in the "down" position and have never had a problem. It seems like the rudder would have to be locked "up" for the tilt launch or else risk breaking off at the transom or worse.
here's the link to see the extender:
http://www.com-pacowners.com/4images/details.php?image_id=173
Went sailing today... temps in the low 70s wind at start 9-11 and at end 11-13 ( I checked the wind observation link when I got back... in case you can input a different zip into it... here it is also:)
http://www.srh.noaa.gov/lix/cgi-bin/previous2.php?pil=LIXOSOLIX&version=0
I know we'll have major payback for this nice weather come next summer! but for now... :D
Fair Winds
Dale
Hey, one more thought on the launching with tilt: I do leave the rudder up while launching, and I try to wet the hull and bunks a little to help the slide. :? But in shallow launches, where the keel is submerged, but not the hull to waterline, I unhitch the winch rope and clip on a 20' line, then push up on the bow or the tongue, it takes about 50 (?) pounds of lift, for a guess, at most, and then the roll begins and its off to the end of my lead. In some ways it's a bit hokey, but I have had good success with this since I tuned the bunks to the keel rollers, so the rollers really do all the carrying and weightbearing. You lucky dogs that go sailing in January. :? I've been cross-country skiing nearly every day for almost a month, so I can't complain too loudly! (another favorite thing to go and play). Happy Sails To Y'all. 8)
bro t. from Upwest Maine
Gentlemen,this weekend, God willing, Sweet Laraine will be launched. The restoration is complete. Two nights ago I installed the Garlick swim ladder and confirmed that, at least for my hull, it is solid glass although maybe I just got lucky with the mounting location. A Weems & Plath oil lamp hangs in her cabin along with a brass bell by son got me for Christmas bearing the name Sweet Laraine on the side. Any last minute words of wisdom? I have no clue what it's like to sail a CP 16. But, after a couple hundred man hours and about $2,000 in new stuff, she's ready to go.
BON VOYAGE!!
Rick,
Let us know how it goes. My only advice is take it slow and be deliberate about setting her up for her relaunching.
Craig
The fact I'm posting this message means I either chickened out or made it back alive. In fact, it's the latter. Sweet Laraine and I made our aquatic debut at Canyon Lake, Texas. 63 degrees and not a cloud to be found. Also, no wind to be found either but that was probably a good thing since it made it easier to rig & launch her and putter around on the 4 hp Suzuki to see how she responded. And, we did get a few puffs or two so I could sail a few miles. Here's some observations & questions I've got for you fellows.
I now know what you mean when you say she has a big boat feel. She reminds me of my old Catalina 22. A hefty, solid girl. I also own a 16 foot Wayfarer which is renown for it's seagoing ability and it's records crossing the North Sea. Yet, by comparison, the Wayfarer is like a Sunfish. Very tippy and absent wind, you can't just sit on one side or the other without causing too much heel. By contrast, I could lounge on either side of the cockpit without that much impact. The cockpit seems bigger at sea than on land. Easy to stretch out with a cushion against the transom and still have room to spare. I also found that the long shaft motor is definitely the way to go. I'm able to keep the motor mount in the up position even when under power making it easier to start & turn. I lowered it once and found it to be a pain in the rear to have to lift to the up position to tilt the motor clear of the water when under sail. If any of you are in the market for a new motor, I would certainly encourage the long shaft version.
After a few hours and a six pack of beer, I was ready to head back having had a great time. But, here's a list of new questions perhaps you'll be able to help me with.
First, and I'm confident this will get me permanently booted off this site, but I'd like to test the honesty of my fellow CP 16 owners. Be honest now. Just how many of you have found the scuppers to be a semi private urinal? I've got to confess that with a few beers I didn't feel like going down below to use the porta potti and there were just one too many boats out there to just stand up. I doubt Hutchins planned it this way, but it seems to me this is one of the more useful design characteristics of the boat. Please don't tell me I'm the only one to have thought of this.
Second, is there any way to launch without getting wet up to your knees. I found that I had to back down the ramp to the point that my rear wheels were in about 3 inches of water. I could then push her off but, to get to the point that she could be pushed, I had to get in knee deep water. To walk behind the car and stand on the trailer tongue still was pretty wet. That's fine in the summer but, despite the sunny weather yesterday, it was cold enough that I wondered if there was any easier solutions? I've seen people with lighter boat fly down the ramp backwards, slam on their brakes, and the boat glides off the trailer into the water. Can this be done on a CP 16?
Third, where do you keep the boom while in transit? Mine is just about 18 inches too long to be able to fit in the cabin. My solution has been to keep the mainsail foot attached to the boom, roll the sail around the boom, and then bungee the boom to the companionway hatch with the boom running back to the transom parallel to the mast. I've got the mast resting in two crutches forward and aft and my rigid roller furler bungeed alongside the mast. Is there any more convenient way to stow the boom other than this? It's sort of like a third wheel.
Congrats Rick...
Any outing you return from is a good one... my maiden voyage was a drifter also... which was probably a good thing too as it was less hectic sorting out the running gear out without a lot of loading forces involved.
About the inboard cockpit urinal concept... you're on your own there... you see, I'm one of those scupper pluggers so distained in this group... but heck, I usually have a crowd and seldom ship water into the coclpit, so...
With regard to the launching, I can help you out there... after my first launching where I had to do the reverse-slam-brakes-slide-off launch and wet tire retrieval... I set about designing a simple yet really useable trailer extension... here is the link to an image of same:
http://www.com-pacowners.com/4images/details.php?image_id=173
It has been one of the most useful, inexpensive, home-made devices...
I walk from the back of the van and down the tongue and don't even get my feet wet.
The Boom goes into the van for the most part and if towing with the car, it goes under the mast and partially into the companionway like you're doing.
Best of luck to you...
ENJOY!!!
Dale
Rick, as for the call of nature, I have found it's a good excuse to take a swim, but that is really difficult on good wind days unless you are good at 'heaving to'. However, my sister's Welsh terrier found that the entire hatch does eventually drain to the cockpit, where certain guests did the limbo over the seat on the lee. Needless to say, the Captain was of a mind to walk the dog (down the gangplank!) and keelhaul the owner who forgot to curb the pup! (Which owner spoke overly sympathetically to the aforementioned canine, while the Captain raised his voice with outstretched bailing jug, demanding immediate attention to the swabbing of the deck!) It may be useful to consider a drink less diuretic in nature, especially on crowded lakes or with company on board. We still carry the pac-a-potti (I have kids). As for launching dry, Dale says it all (I figure the water is part of the experience - at least for now). In regard to boom-tying, I use only one crutch (in the cockpit), homemade 'X' shape, so the mast goes on the pulpit rail through the top of the 'X', and then I just tie the boom to the mast at either end, but outside the 'X', so they don't abrade. It's ugly, but cheap and quite stable; so far no probs, I've been a long road that way. Congrats on a happy maiden voyage! :D
bro t. from Upwest Maine
Just FYI, last night I reviewed a diary I kept to chronicle the restoration of Sweet Laraine. The total cost of this little project was $4,500 which includes the cost of the boat & trailer which I bought for $1,500 (probably more than what it was worth). So, I spent twice as much to restore her as I did to buy her. Now, in fairness, I hasten to add that some of the expenses were either unnecessary or would have been incurred even had I bought a brand new boat or a second hand boat in good condition. For example, $100.00 of this is for license & registration. I spent about $250.00 for a stereo system. I bought things like a tool kit to keep on board and spare parts. Also, she boasts brand new sails and a roller furler. Even brand new boats don't have these unless you add them as options. And a good second hand boat, although cheaper, wouldn't have these items either plus it would have second hand sails, maybe an old style rudder, older trailer tires, etc. I question if I could sell her for what I put into her although, on the other hand, I've seen plenty of used CP16s at $3,000 to $3,500 in good shape but still with ten year old sails, no stereo, furler, etc.
The total time I spent on this project was 101 hours most of which was done in 3 hour snippets over almost exactly 2 months. One couldn't do it in much less time than two months because progress had to be halted while waiting for paint to dry, adhesives and epoxy to set up, etc. I hasten to add that this 101 hours did not include the one billion trips to West Marine and Home Depot. Okay, maybe not quite that many trips but I can guarantee you I spent about another 24 hours collectively in driving and shopping. So, even if I could sell my baby for what I put into her, all my time would have been for nothing. Of course, this is all academic because it was a labor of love and more fun than work. If I didn't want to do it or didn't enjoy this kind of stuff in the first place, I would have just taken the $5,000 and bought a slightly used boat ready to go.
I've got one other question you might be able to help me with. When rigging Sweet Laraine for her maiden voyage last weekend, obviously I was no longer in my garage near my handy step ladder. So, I found myself climbing in and out of her by standing on the wheel fender and pulling myself on board and then jumping off. It really was pretty easy given my height of 6'2" but does anybody have any other solutions? I'm sure you don't bring a step ladder with you but do you use a step-stool type device? On bigger trailerable keel boats, I've seen some trailers with a little ladder welded on the tongue by the winch which you can climb to get on and off the bow. Has anybody done something like this? How about the swim ladder on the stern?
Rick,
At 6 foot even I just step on the fender and throw my leg over the side and climb into the cockpit. I've been doing it for 6 years with no ill effects to the fender(s) or its owner.
Craig
Yeah... the fender...
One thing to make sure of... and this only applies to those using the hitch extender ( or doing work in the garage ) ... Make sure the trailer is either attached to the vehicle or has jack stands under the rear of the frame.
Once while setting up at the ramp... I walked to the stern and the boat started to rock backward... needless to say... it's the type of thing you do only ONCE :oops:
One thing with buying these boats used is that you will always be able to get your money out... it's the guys who buy new that take the worst hit on depreciation. You will also have more "pride of ownership" than if you had bought new.
Congrats... I've enjoyed folowing the saga.
Dale
Rick - YOU'RE BANNED FOR LIFE!!!
LOL, just kidding. :mrgreen:
Here's what I do when I can't swim to pump my personal bilge:
Get a gallon jug (water or milk jug works fine, but a bleach bottle lasts longer). Opposite the handle, near the top, cut a 8-10" circular hole out of the bottle. Pump bilge wattle into bottle at your leisure, sitting or standing in the cockpit or cabin, dumping ex-bilge-contents overboard when finished.
I named this invention of mine "The Harbor Head", since it is useful when other folks are about, and less likely to cause stares than standing and dangling off the stern in public. :mrgreen:
Rinse the Harbor Head immediately after use, and it also makes a handy-dandy general purpose bucket that has many other uses. Urine is nearly sterile, I've read, but it has enough biologicals that your scuppers will grow green with a steady diet of liquid nutrient, unless rinsed. The Harbor Head also works well the boat is underway, maing it more likely that you'll stay aboard when bilge-pumping.
Congrats on the first sail, Rick, and thanks for all the info. :)
I like the idea of the harbor head. If anybody saw it, at least they wouldn't know exactly what it was or think you were some type of wierdo. I had thought about keeping one of those portable urinals like the type you get when in the hospital but that's a dead giveaway. Way too obvious. The subtlety of the harbor head may be the answer. Certainly the option of giving up beer isn't. I'm not sure I'd know how to sail without beer.
I plan on keeping in touch because the story of Sweet Laraine isn't over. Once I get my sea legs on her, she's going to Mexico via the Gulf of Mexico. I haven't figured out the details yet but I'm convinced I can make the trip. I'm only 2 hours from Corpus Christi so I can launch her there and be on my way. I'll let you know when I get the plans firmed up.
I also plan on inventing a better way to jump in and out apart from the fender method. It worked for me and I sense that's what everybody else does to. I'm going to see if I can come up with a better mousetrap. I'll let you know.
Well, I went to manufacture my Harbor Head and my wife said the dimensions for the hole didn't need to be that big. She suggested that I could just punch hole in the bottle with a finishing nail and that I'd have room to spare. So, I'm now accepting new names for Sweet Laraine since I certainly won't be calling her after my wife anymore.
LMAO! :mrgreen:
Maybe you could rename the boat "Sarcastic Laraine"? ;) :lol:
Thought I'd check in to give ya'll a report on an interesting sail I had this past weekend. I went out to our local lake with my son knowing there was a risk of afternoon thunderstorms with the approach of a mild cold front. It didn't happen but there was enough of a pressure gradient to kick up Beneteau. Unbelievable!