since im fairly new to sailing and have previously owned a hobie 16 and a 15' mutineer, i need some advise on anchoring my cp16. the anchor is i imagine one that came as original equipment in 1981. its a danforth with a length of chain and about 60 feet or rope. on my fishing boat i use bow "gripper" cleats but im unsure what i should tie the rope to on the cp16. i know the question sound rather "basic" but i would rather do it right than srew things up.
Not the bow eye!
Rather the bow cleat. Regular figure eight hitch typically found on cleats should be fine.
Many years ago, I found a great all round small boat primer entitled "The Complete Sailor" by David Seidman. It's just right. Not too much information, but over simplified either. If you are new to sailing, it may be another good choice for good information.
Hope this helps,
Paul
Roland:
Please, 7:1 scope on your anchor line. Iv'e seen adequate anchors, chain and line not do thier job because of not enough line out to maintain proper scope. Rule of thumb: 7 feet out for every 1 foot of water depth.
Bob23 in "Koinonia"
Hi Roland, Bobs right on here, in rough seas without enough scope you will lift the ancor instead of pull on it. BILL
as always thanks for the good advise. i pretty much sail a fairly shallow lake and would most likely anchor in 8 foot or less. my main concern is attaching the anchor rope to the boat. i would never use the bow eye but is the cleat just behind the forestay attachment strong enough. I was thinking of replacing it with a "gripper" style like i have on my fishing boat. never had one fail to hold. thanks again
8 times 7 is 56, with 60 foot total rode you should be OK, but cutting it a bit tight. I would make sure your anchor setup is beefy enough to take the pull of your boat in the highest winds, and then double the strength. Rodes tend to break down over the years and you want plenty of backup. Nothing like cutting loose from your anchor at 3 in the morning in gale force winds, esp. if you are next to a rocky leeward shore or in a tight anchorage.
Not to scare you, but if you are serious about anchoring overnight- I like to use two in a Bahamian moor if it is going to be rough, and get something besides a Danforth- a CQR is the one I have on my 23... but I may be overdoing it. What does everyone else think?
Quote from: newt on March 30, 2008, 10:53:00 PM
8 times 7 is 56, with 60 foot total rode you should be OK, but cutting it a bit tight.
Remember to add the freeboard! 8 feet of water plus three feet of freeboard would be 11' feet times 7, or 77 feet.
'Least that's how I was told to figure it.... :)
Ah,,,that sneaky freeboard. I anchor in 4 to 7 feet of water usually. (Our bay is shallow) and carry 100 feet of 1/2" line plus 10 feet 5/16 inch chain. I'm in the process of upgrading to 200 feet of 5/8 line, same chain. (Too cheap to buy more chain!)
Newt's advice is good. I carry a spare anchor and using 2 anchors, I keep the swing to a minimum. I also fly an anchoring (or riding) sail at anchor. It cuts the swing in half, degree-wise, puts less strain on the anchor and line, and boat and is much more comfortable. I bought mine at a yard saile but Banner Bay Marine makes 'em. So does any good sailmaker.
The factory cleat on my 1985 23/2 has never failed me. It's held the boat at anchor in 25-30 knt winds plus 3-4 ft waves. Not so much as a surface crack on the deck. The Hutchins boys do it right!
Bob23 in NJ and warming up!
Hmm... probably right about the free board, although he did say a length of chain rode before the rope rode. I would still get rid of the original equipment and get a real anchor with a new rope rode, at least in addition to the Danforth. BTW, how high above the waterline is the bow of a CP 16? Is it really three feet? I thought that is about what my CP 23 is.
Hi Bob! Good to talk to another 23 sailor. I just got mine about a month ago and I am already sold on her...she save my bacon (see "can you tip these babies over")
Back to the subject...What type of anchors do you find useful?
Newt:
I have a custom (read: homemade-by-someone) stainless steel Danforth style anchor. Bought it at a nautical flea market along with 400' poly line for 20 bucks. Not bad. I also have a large, cast Danforth, don't know the number and it's raining out now so I won't go out and get it.
I looked for a 23 for a few years before this one (1985) came up for sale a few years ago. We've been in love ever since. I hope I can learn to post photos here...I've done quite a bit to her. I guess soon she could use a new suit of sails although the originals are still in good shape.
Newt, where do you sail?
bob23 in NJ
I charter down in Florida and the Bahamas, but I bought my 23 to get my fix here at home...sailing in the Great Salt Lake. Its amazing how much like the ocean it is, except very little traffic and no fish :(. The landscape reminds me of pictures of Baja. It is desert and isolated around the lake, but I like it that way. Nothing like anchoring out and listening to classical guitar when you are the only person around. Haven't done any extended trip with her yet, but I will, once I get a little sea sense to how she reacts to different situations.
Salty but inland
Newt
hello
one more idea on anchoring. everone right on the scope issue,the main point is to keep the anchor flat on the bottom. how much chain you have and the water or weather conditions 7to1 is a good start point. as current and or wind picks up you need to let more line out. however some times there just isn't enough swing room. that is where other options come into play. I have tried the two anchor systems and found you can wake up to a real nightmare with tangled lines. I like to send down a sentinel variation and had nothing but good results in some real blows and extream currents. What i doe is first send down my large danforth with chain followed by braided nylon. On this I then send down a small danforth with a ring on the shank. the main anchor line is passed through the ring. I have a suitable line hooked to this ring so that after first anchor is set I can lower the small anchor which also sets and works to keep my main anchor line parallel to the bottom. the trick is to get the small anchor down to the chain which lets the nylon float off the bottom. in rocky ground you don't want your line to rub and cut on the rocks. Chapmans "Piloting" has a good section on this subject. Some times you can find a copy at a used book store or chandlery for not a great sum of money. A good book to have at any price.
Then I would look to see how bow cleat is mounted. When in doubt up grade or why not tie end of line to something like the bow pulpit(down low) then use cleat to take load of anchor. I always check gps position a couple of times before settling in for night.
most important practice in safe area before heading out into the unknown.
good luck
mrb
I was wondering why not use the bow eye... or at least running through the bow eye to the cleat... isn't it strong enough to haul the boat onto the trailer and hold it there on the highway? It eliminates the freeboard... I run the anchor rope through a loop in a "bridle" rope that goes back to the cockpit for easy retrieval without going forward. I have used this method for "casual" anchoring for brief activities (lunch or wading).
One thing I found at one of the boat shops is pretty cool... it's called "anchor buddy" and it is an anchor rope with essentially a bungie cord at its core... it still has the nylon outer rope for strength, but its stretchability takes the strain off of the anchor when waves rock the boat and helps to prevent the anchor from breaking loose... I have used it mostly on sandy bottoms and it really smoothes out the "ride" on the boat if you are sitting on it at anchor.
Cheers
Dale
HI
the bow eye looks inviting,low freeboard and strength. Problem is if you have to get the anchor up fast or wind and or waves pick up
you may find that laying over the bow to get a hold and the anchor is not something you want do do. On a 16 there is not that much room between the forstay and pulpit stanchions. For safety you should be able to get the anchor on deck quickly and easily once you start the retrieval process.
good sailing
mrb
You're right about wanting to get to it quickly if necessary. That's why I run the anchor line through a loop on a rope that is led to the cockpit... With the anchor line attached to the bow, I can still get to it without leaving the cockpit. (for this I use the line that runs from the bow to the stern cleat when docking).
All the best.
Dale
Thats a good idea, running the anchor line through a loop and lead back to the cockpit. I will reamember and use when needed.
Do you keep your bow line pulled back to the Stern while sailing. I do because being a solo sailor it's nice to step off the boat with both bow and stern line in hand.
Good sailing
Melvin
I keep the dock line with the looped short line there while sailing because I use it to hold the boat to the dock while I move the trailer to and from the parking lot. I mostly single hand, so there is no one to hold her while I deal with the trailer. I leave the docking line attached to the bow and stern cleats and it's just long enough to go around a couple of posts without too much surplus to wrap up. When I launch... I have it attached to both ends and hold the "looped" short rope in one hand while I drive down the ramp... when the boat floats off, I walk it down the pier and since the line is attached to both bow and the stern, I no longer have the problem of the wind taking the stern into the other side of the narrow slip (crunch!)... I lift it over a couple of pilings and stowe the trailer... When I return from sailing, the dockline is right there to loop over the pilings while I get the trailer... The short rope has a bowline tied in one end and slides along the docking line. I use the same length for the anchor when I have the rare occasion to use it.
Cheers
Dale
Quote from: roland cobine on March 12, 2008, 08:45:04 AM
since im fairly new to sailing and have previously owned a hobie 16 and a 15' mutineer, i need some advise on anchoring my cp16. the anchor is i imagine one that came as original equipment in 1981. its a danforth with a length of chain and about 60 feet or rope. on my fishing boat i use bow "gripper" cleats but im unsure what i should tie the rope to on the cp16. i know the question sound rather "basic" but i would rather do it right than srew things up.
What you need to anchor depends on what type of anchoring. Anchoring overnight in unprotected water you'd need more in the way of ground tackle than having lunch on a small lake.
What you have sound like a lunch hook. You can anchor safely with a 4:1 scope if you are just having lunch in fairly light conditions and keeping watch. If you plan to leave the boat or go to sleep, then this won't do.
The bow cleat is where you are supposed to secure the anchor rode. Avoid the tow hook.
Curtis
Hi Curtis,
You're just about right... the "casual" anchor is a little flooke type... it holds pretty well... but when we overnighted at Ship Island (13miles off the Coast of Mississippi) I used the danforth with about 75 feet of line in just six feet of water... PLUS the little bungie rope anchor.
I just saw the pics of your boat... it's gorgeous... it looks new... people ask if mine is new sometimes... they do hold up if you take care of them... Looks like a great weather day that you had. I finally went sailing Sunday from a different launch. The Mandeville yacht club one is going to be under construction for the quite some time... the dyke keeps breaking before they have a chance to pour the concrete.
The season will be over soon down here anyway... just a few more weeks then it's going to start roasting and boiling up the thunderstorms 'till fall. Enjoy your summer up there...
Best Regards
Dale
"Chapmans "Piloting" has a good section on this subject. "
Just picked this bible up. It will take a year to get through it!
Hopefully I made the right decision on a new anchor purchase for the 19-won't know until next year.
Working Anchor
9lb Danforth Anchor
12' 1/4 chain
200' 3/8" rode
Heavy Anchor
19lb Plow with 6' 1/4 chain, thinking about a real long chain if I can find on discount (16-20')
Haven't got a rode yet, thinking two 200' rodes.
Lunch Hook
4.5lb Grapnel
? chain, maybe 5'
100' rode..will use in shallow inlet
My dilemna with anchors are twofold. There is a large and very tall dam on the water I sail in. One could stall their engine out of the marina and with the wind blowing at 15knots from the North, you'll be clinging to the barrier rope in under a minute!! And...the water is about 90 feet at it's deepest, which is most of the interior of this small lake. Near the dam it goes from 80' to dam level quickly. There is a slight current towards the dam from a river down in the depths. MSo I need an unusually long rode just in case. And of course smart entry paths into and out of the marna to sail out of a problem.
You guys think the heavy anchor will stop the CP19 is bad situations.??
O
If your trying to anchor in 90 feet maybe you need a sea anchor:) I see your dilemma, and I would approach it in a different way:
1. go out of the marina with a sail up- the one you can best sail away from the dam with. If your engine poops, use your sailing skills sailor! At the very least you can sail directly over to the side and anchor there till you get the motor worked out.
2. Have oars on board and know how to use them. Although my outboard has never failed me yet on my CP, I occasionally take it out with just oars and sails. It is amazing the peace of mind you can get knowing if any one thing failed on your boat you would have a backup.
Just my 2 cents...
Problem with a sea anchor is it won't hold the boat still long enough for help to arrive. The dam is not just a wall with rocks--it drops off several hundred feet after a very small ledge which looks to regulate the water flow. A walking bridge is over the water regulation. So the boat would either get trapped over the "falls" or slip under the bridge and down, down, down.... Either way, would be the death of the boat and probably me.
Your points are very well taken here. Normally I have the main sail ready to raise as I'm motoring out of the marina for the purpose you mentioned. I may just raise it all the way and loosen the sheet until just clear of the marina where normally I kill the outboard and sail off. That will give me another minute or so to react. I'm sure I can sail out of the situation if I'm ready for it. But in case I cannot due to wind direction, it would be nice to know that I can throw over a huge anchor and stop the boat until help arrives. And if I need a min 5:1 scope, preferrably 7:1 or more--that's a heck of a lot of rode!
Oars probably will not work for me in a CP19 under bad conditions. I have one and will stow it onboard, but really don't expect much since the boat is so heavy.
If the wind is not blowing to hard , I raise the sails and motor away from the dock, of course wind direction and speed can make this a handy way to get out of harms way. I actually back my boat off the lift with the sails up with my 5 hp.......Phil
Quote from: Salty19 on December 16, 2009, 12:37:09 AM
You guys think the heavy anchor will stop the CP19 is bad situations.??
O
Unfortunately, the answer to this...like many other things in both life and sailing...If you really need it it probably won't work.
Not to say it's a bad idea, I'd just not plan on it being your only course of action. Like others suggest, raise the main in advance, have the oars on standby, make sure your rode is not knotted up. Any one of these plans may or may not save you from a catastrophic encounter with the damn dam, but making sure you have the ability to employ all of the plans is really the best way to mitigate your risk. I don't think you'll find any 100% foolproof solution to your dilemma...other than perhaps not leaving the dock at all. I suppose that's the best way to assure your boat doesn't go near the damn.
--Greg
- If you didn't know how to fly a plane but might have to do it, and had a chance of learning only one maneuver well... which one would that be...?
- Landing!
- And if instead of a plane it was a sailboat...?
- ...
Do you catch my drift? Good! because if you fail to properly anchor no one else may catch yours...:).
My recommendation:
Complete Book of Anchoring and Mooring
by Earl R. Hinz,
2006
Cornell Maritime Press, Inc.
J.
I would recommend towing a barrel. If your motor dies, go over the falls in the barrel. Much safer.
Anchor Setting Comparison (Video) - SailboatOwners.com
http://forums.sbo.sailboatowners.com/showthread.ph...
skip.
Salty- there was a smilie after the sea anchor- It would not work with the current going toward the dam. Oars on the other hand, if set up correctly on your boat- might. I used to row my 27 foot Catalina (8000 lbs) in and out of the marina quite often. My 3000 lb Compac is much easier, and I think you should be able to get some good boat speed by rowing your 19 ft compac.
Once again- just trying to be helpful.
newt--sorry, I guess I missed the humor-my fault.
Your advice is spot on. I used to be ready to raise the sail upon motoring out of the marina, but I think I need to go ahead and raise it prior to backing out of the slip (with sheets loose). If a line got snaged or something, the act of raising the sail prior to needed it could save me several seconds and give me a chance to sail away from the dam.