i plan to do a lot of singlehanded sailing this year and would like some tips on raising the mainsail while on the water. in the past i have raised the main on the trailer leaving the mainsheets loose. it hasn't been a problem but i have been told that i am making a mistake and will eventually damage my boat. im assuming that i should rig the main to the boom attach the main halyard leaving the sail in the cocpit. once i have the boat away from the dock, should i heave to and then raise the sail? i have a roller furling jib so that isnt any problem singlehanded. i know this seems pretty basic but i hope to benefit from the expierence of others . thanks
As for the CP-16 just point her into the wind and hoist! Also works well on a mooring. Hoist than cast off. It helps if you can secure the tiller amidships. You start out in "irons" but it's easy enough to veer off.
ick
thanks rick, appreciate it.-----sure shows that i havent really sailed for near 20 years.
Roland,
Do you have a topping lift to keep the boom up? You can flake the mainsail to the boom. As Rick said, just point into the wind and hoist. Raise the main first.
Good luck.
have topping lift-----hmm raise the mast first----thats an idea
Quote from: roland cobine on January 24, 2008, 10:51:26 AM
i plan to do a lot of singlehanded sailing this year and would like some tips on raising the mainsail while on the water. in the past i have raised the main on the trailer leaving the mainsheets loose. it hasn't been a problem but i have been told that i am making a mistake and will eventually damage my boat. im assuming that i should rig the main to the boom attach the main halyard leaving the sail in the cocpit. once i have the boat away from the dock, should i heave to and then raise the sail? i have a roller furling jib so that isnt any problem singlehanded. i know this seems pretty basic but i hope to benefit from the expierence of others . thanks
Roland,
I'm not sure I understand why there is a problem. On first read I was thinking "raise the mast singlehanded", whiich is a challenge but then I noticed it was raise the mainsail.
I have a boomkicker which is great but a topping lift is all that you really need. I'm on a mooring. Raising the main before dropping the mooring pendant is essential if you want to avoid hitting other boats or going up on shore. Same applies if you've motored away from a dock (or better yet rowed away :)
It helps to have sail stops. Load all the sail slugs into the mast slot and then put the sail stop in place. Just make sure the sail slugs can run clear and pull on that halyard. Up she goes. A good tug or a little extra tension using the halyard winch and then engage the rope clutch. Bear away and your done. The raising the main part takes about 10 seconds once you get the hang of it.
The main should go up first. You should be headed not quite to windward for the sail to go up easy, slightly off the wind so you can bear away quickly.
Curtis
Roland:
I routinly raise my main on my 23 by meself. The sail always lives on the boom while at mooring. Sometimes I'll raise it at the mooring and sail off, other times, I motor off, point her in the wind, and up the main goes! I do use a winch to help- I had rotator cuff surgery on 10/06 and theres no point in overworking it.
Having a topping lift is a must; keeps the boom up while I'm fussing with the main. Having roller furling, I use the original jib halyard for a topping lift- works great!
Happy raising, Roland!
Bob23 in NJ
Curtis,
I had a boom kicker on my little H-170 and was thinking about adding one to my Eclipse. the boom kicker is really great addition. what size Boom kicker are you using and what size boat do you have ?
Glenn
Quote from: Glenn on January 29, 2008, 09:54:59 AM
Curtis,
I had a boom kicker on my little H-170 and was thinking about adding one to my Eclipse. the boom kicker is really great addition. what size Boom kicker are you using and what size boat do you have ?
Glenn
Glenn,
Late reply. Sorry. Been busy and dropped out a while. I sail a CP23 and the Boomkicker is the model 750.
Curtis
Just because I am curious...
Does a boomkicker have a advantage over a topping lift in a boat of this size? (16 or 23) If so, what is the advantage?
And does anyone heave to when the wind is really up and you want to go to the mast to mess with the main? I'm finding heaving too is one of the really nice things to do out there...when something gets stuck or I need lunch or whatever...
Newt, I don't have much input on the boom kicker but I agree 100% with heaving to. I've been singlehanding this boat a lot more than I thought I would and we've had quite a breezy winter and spring in FL (so far). In a day's sail, out single, I'll heave to maybe a half dozen times for many different reasons.
How do you leave your main sheeted when you're hove to? I've found the main sail sheeted tight and the headsail a little baggy balances best.
Careful though with the gusts. I stepped below for just a moment one day while hove and the boat was hit by a gust and knocked me on my butt. I popped out the companion way freaked out, but by then the boat popped back up and was heaving along like nothing happened. Good thing I wasn't up on the lee side taking a nature break!
--Greg
Hi Greg
I have a 16 so may not work like your boat, however worked on two other boats I've had.
Just raising a sail or grabbing something close, I sheet in the main tight, let the tiller go and do whatever I have to do. Usually raise or drop jib.
If I'm heaving to because of weather or have to be away from tiller for some time in bad weather, I sheet in main as if I was on a close reach, lash the tiller all the over to same side. Then sheet the jib to windward ( opposite side). The boat slowly drifts down wind and works slowly forward. Gives a comfortable ride and gives you time to do whatever. You do want plenty of room between you and shore though.
I practice this with each new boat and well before I actually need to use.
Happy sailing
Melvin
On the lake last friday: Winds 22 kts Swells about 2-3 feet, too rough to sail and eat lunch- so I heaved too with the main tight and the jib tight cross sheeted. I was running close hauled and was just too lazy to do anything but tack without tending the sheets. Worked like a dream, and the waves did the mellow out thing that the Pardey's describe in "heavy weather sailing". The only thing I didn't like is the boat kept on sailing a bit, enough to get us out of our calm water slick ever so often. But I can work on that.
Yeah...I'm addicted:)
There is another trick to calm the waves, however I don't think it would be looked upon to kindly now days. My first boat was a life boat which came fully equipped: sail, sweeps,canned rations, every think you could want, EVEN A CAN OF OIL TO POUR ONTO THE TROUBLED SEAS. I was given the boat in 1965 and all the goods were labeled 1941. It is kind of interesting to watch what is acceptable and state of the art once become unacceptable over time.
Good Sailing
Melvin
Melvin:
Interesting oil idea. I've read enough books by circumnavigators to know it works. More interestingly is how little oil you need. The oil creates a membrane on the water, calming the waves. I haven't had occasion to need this, and here in NJ one would probably get 20 years to life for such a crime.
If I were offshore and in a life threatening condition, well over the side would go the oil. I don't think you need crude or crude based. Even vegetable oil would do.
Bob23, using lots of olive oil on everything!
Bob
Thats what this oil looked like, regular motor oil. I think I'll do the same thing if out on a ocean crossing. carry a few cans of vegetable oil and use if needed.
Melvin
wait wait wait-HOLD THE PRESSES!
Do you really believe that you can dump enough oil out in the ocean to smooth out large swells coming toward you? Or even stop breaking waves? Now an oil slick may work by placing a layer of oil between your hull and the ocean, perhaps allowing a better righting movement... but I would have a hard time believing it could abate a storm or even a strong gale. Of course if I am out in a hurricane I would probably try anything.
Alright, I am a skeptic...but how do you say that it works? How many here have first hand experience with this?
Newt:
I have not had first hand experience at this but have read many books by circumnavigators both recent and in the past. It apparently won't calm the sea the way Jesus did. That took a miracle. However, it creates a thin membrace on the surface that smoothes things out a bit. If I can think of what books I read it in, I'll get back here.
I may just try it in the bay here in NJ on a blustery day. It should work on a small scale just as a large scale. I'll post my result back here. If I'm jailed for this, I guess they have computers at the State Penn!
I very old book worth reading is "50 South to 50 South". The story of the Wander Bird and here westerly rounding of Cape Horn. This book was written in 1938, is a bit hard to find, but worth it and loaded with lots of photos. I believe they used the oil trick in this voyage.
Bob23, slathering on the olive oil!
Newt,
My grandmother told me of using oil to calm seas. She was a licensed skipper/USCGaux commander, and had used this technique, especially when coming along side another vessel in heavy seas. Her method was to put a bit of salad oil into the toilet, then flush it overboard.
I did a very short web search and came up with this result:
http://www.peters-bey.com/Katalog%20PDFs/400RettBoot.pdf
It is the inventory of a (very large?) life boat. They carry two cans of "wave calming oil", a 1 liter and a 5 liter. Also, the first listed item is an "oil bag" to release the oil more slowly, allowing a better chance of rescue.
Ernie (Molly 23/II, 1984)
Its my scientific training. I have no doubt that it has been used, but what evidence do we have? I mean can we get a mechanism of action? I am thinking of trying it someday when we are trying to get people or goods from the dingy to the boat. I would try a small amount, just to see if it works. (and far away from any civilization)
Or maybe not....
O.K. Here some info and sources. 1 I like Bob23's idea just slaver it on and when seas get rough jump to windward. Good effective way of spreading oil and get clean at the same time.
Now on a more serious note.
Chapman's book PILOTING SEAMANSHIP & SMALL BOAT HANDLING has a good write up on oil with sea anchors and Using oil on rough water. In my copy they are in chapter 10 titled special seamanship techniques.
These cover when, how to best use and types of oil.
Also my family ran salmon boats in northen California in late 40's until a few years ago. My mother is the one who first told me about oil on water.
The key to all this is use only in emergency. It does work but best to study how to use it then save that knowledge for when it may be needed in such a way that no one is going to cite you.
On the Oregon coast some of the coast guard has become so (can't describe it) that they are asking if you have navigational books and such on board. They accept Chapman's.
My copy is 56th edition
Melvin
Quote from: newt on May 11, 2008, 04:01:45 PM
Just because I am curious...
Does a boomkicker have a advantage over a topping lift in a boat of this size? (16 or 23) If so, what is the advantage?
The advantage is slight. One less line. Not much room at the masthead.
Its also like an inverse vang when you sheet in the main and don't have a traveller (all cp23 and smaller unless owner added) gving you a less flat sail with the vang eased out. But its no substitute for having a traveller. A heavy bungee cord topping lift might do the same.
Curtis
ps - on the oil issue - a drop of oil covers a square inch or so if I remeber correctly from back in chem doing the oil drop experiment to measure avagadro's number. A cup of cooking oil would cover a large area and it does seem conceiveable that it would lower the friction between air (wind) and sea and keep the swells from breaking. I wouldn't try it these days. I hope never to be looking for desparate measures to keep afloat.
Tonight I was browsing the book section and came across a post by Rick Klagas about an on-line book titled "Boat Sailing in Fair Weather and Fowel". I have to recommend taking a look at this post if you were interested in any way in the oil and water conversation. Chapter seven has a good wright up on heavy weather sailing with and use of oil and sea anchors and tactics.
The whole book is worth looking through and is set up in chapter and content form so you can look at what is of interest to you.
From a dark and stormy day in Arkansas, Hope you had better weather today.
Melvin
I was talking to a fellow at a July 4th party (at my sister in laws) and he was off
Gloucester harbor (Massachusetts) about 10 miles out with a friend's family in a Grady White which was refurbished.
The owner asked if he could investigate the "sloshing" sound so he openned the bilge and there was 35 gallons of fuel in there. The fuel tank had ruptured... They closed up the bilge, turned everything off, got on their PFDs and radioed the Coast Guard for help.
The CG reponded immediately. and towed the boat back to shore and then confiscated the boat. The owner was hoping that he could trailer the boat to his home and clean up the mess, but the CG said NO.
I bet this will cost a couple of dollars in hazardous waste fees.
The fellow said that the situation was quite hair raising.
BC
The first and only time I had a coast guard tow was 1966 or so. I was out on lake Pontchartrain in my life boat (first trip) with two friends attempting to Cross lake from NewOrleans to Mandeville. Had a strong easterly with Huge swells running evenly.
We made the mistake of going under the Causeway(24 mile bridge connecting New Orleans with North shore). The causeway sets up a wind shadow which with the swells we could not cross back to the side we needed to be on to get to Mandeville or New Orleans and it was beginning to look like a long day and night. Problem was one of the friends was being inducted into the army next day. The coast guard was passing and stopped to see if we needed help and we asked for a tow. They passed a line which we attached to bow and the advised we sit down. We soon found what a Nantucket sleigh ride was all about. One really cool ride. They towed us to entrance to New Orleans yacht harbor, stopped and retrieved their tow line and left with have a good day.
The next time I might have taken a tow was was within last ten years. I was sailing from Umpqua river outlet (Salmon Harbor or Windy cove depending which basin your from) South to Coos Bay, Oregon. Had a great wind nice easy rolling swells. Had sails sheeted in tight and lashed rudder to hold coarse. Went below and fixed a big mug of coffee and oatmeal then returned to deck to enjoy a perfect morning. A few minutes latter I heard what sounded like little bells, then a big crashing sound. The windward shrouds let go first the lower then upper then I was dead in the water with mast and sails to leeward. Ouch. After looking situation over I did the only thing possible, pulled sails in, unhooked for stay and pulled mast where I pull it up on deck and stowed as neat as possible.
My location was a few miles closer back to the Umpqua but my truck and rig was at Coos Bay so I decided to continue south to Coos Bay. Besides they have a good marine supply store for the fishing fleet there and I figure I can have mast back up with little trouble there. Well I started South and all went well for a hour or so(even finished my breakfast) then seas started building to point where I would clime one wave and fall off into the trough banging the bottom of boat where I though it would pound my hull apart so now I turned around to run with the waves and wind.
Fog started setting in and visibility dropped to hide shore. Waves continued to build and would get cross flowing wind waves that would hit side of boat and splash over. I had a early Magellan that showed coarse,distants to way point and eta. When I was close to outer sea buoy visibility was really down but the Umpqua light flashes red and white. Never saw the white but that red light sure looked good,just like a light in the window guiding me home. There is talk of shutting lights down because of gps but let me say that light was much more reassuring than the gps signal.
Any way as I approached entrance I heard a large engine sound close so I shut down then out off the gloom a Coast Guard cutter slipped by. I guess most people would have signaled them but I law low until they passed then entered mouth of river. Swells were running across batr and breaking in places so I paced myself and picked out best route.
Once inside I pulled into a little turning basin and neetend boat up before heading to docks. Earlier when under sail I had been pulling small inflated dink but when I went under power I had to pull it up on for deck so I needed to get it back into water and clear deck for better visibility in dock areas. While I was doing this I heard the same engine sound of cutter pull up behind me. They were not happy and told me two men would meet me at guest dock.
To jump back a ways, my radio went down when mast went down (that antenna thing) and when on ocean and crossing bar I had on a float coat and inflatable life jacket, this one was a navy rescue swimmer jacket. All my vests and coats have attached strobe lights, whistles and rocket type flares.
When I reached guest dock there awaited two P.O. 3rd class coast guard men.
Give them credit they asked permission to board, I granted. This was before 9-11.
This was first time I experienced the quick draw stance. They checked all my gear and everything was good. While the older of the two was checking the younger and I was talking. I showed the older standard vest but the younger was interested in my coat so I showed him what it was and also the inflatable. He was interested and showed eagerness to learn where he could.
After the older guy was done with paper work he said I was OK and he could not site me, however he began to lecture me about not having life vest on while crossing bar and furthermore I crossed bar at the wrong point and I should have used radio to call for help. The younger man said, well I think his radio was not working due to antenna being down. I pointed to float coat and the younger man again said that I indeed was wearing life vest and showed and explained my equipment to the older. I told him also that when crossing a bar a skipper sometimes has to use his best judgment. Even after being shown coat and radio the older guy didn't tone his demeanor down. That scares me more than the ocean.
Later I asked my cousin who ran a large tuna boat from that harbor what was going on between the coasties and boaters. I said you fishermen should be taking fish over to the base and sitting down to get to know each other. He said that was the way it was in the past, my Grandfathers and Fathers time, but now the couldn't communicate. Seems we are all a little poorer for it.
Find great pleasure in simple things
Melvin
Quote from: mrb on June 29, 2008, 12:09:44 AM
Tonight I was browsing the book section and came across a post by Rick Klagas about an on-line book titled "Boat Sailing in Fair Weather and Fowel".
Melvin
Thanks for the shout out but I can't take any credit!
ick
Back to the "raising the main" topic...
When I'm single handing (a lot of the time), I head into the wind usually) with the motor running)... raise it as far as I can, then lock the tiller... and wrap the halyard behind my backside and use my legs and body weight to pull back enough to straighten the luff. I have the lines led aft with V cleats on the cabin top, so when I have the line tight, I just pull it down into the V notch and then tie the end to the cabin top cleat just in case. If it should come loose while sailing, I don't restart the motor... but quickly repeat the above.
The only difficulty happens when I have my wife and daughter or other crew aboard as they need to briefly move to allow me to get to the cleats. If I have "helpful" crew aboard, they either hold the tiller or haul the halyard. Avast ye lubbers! Arrrgh...
Dale
Sailing solo all the time I pull 'er up as far as possible, then with tiller locked and heading up wind usually with motor running to maintain steerage, I continue to straighten the luff by wrapping the halyard around the port side winch and cranking till my 'Pentel' mark is seen in the rope clutch. She can't go any higher or tighter. Hint...my replaced halyards and sheets are both an extra 6 foot longer then stock and this additional footage allows me to 'winch' the headsail from the port side if I want to.
On the oil on water thing I assume [??] this higher viscosity created by the oil makes water 'thicker' thus harder to move? A guy could also toss over a 3 lb coffee can with a bridle and cleat that off as well; acts as a 'shock absorber' when rolling at the dock or can. A bridle keeps the can vertical.
I got a kick out of the do gooders and environmental wackos who washed shore birds for thousands of dollars per bird that were oiled up and then scrubbed up to 'de-oil them' then turned loose only to be eaten a moment later by killer whales. That is an expensive foul meal. Snicker-snicker. The solution to pollution is dilution. Consentrate it and it becomes a problem. It's a big world.
This 'salt-water' and crossing the bar was a great story...me too for this--->"Even after being shown coat and radio the older guy didn't tone his demeanor down. That scares me more than the ocean." Military tight butt guys...saw an e-mail just now from the wife. The vessel's name on the stern of a freighter out of Hong Kong was Titian Uranus. Must be full of Toyota pick-ups and scared seamen.
"What's the name of this town??? [incert name] Where men are men and sheep are scared. Say it ain't soooooo" a funny.
skip.
Skip, these posts about losing things overboard reminded me of an incident we had (probably in 2002) just in front of the condos that are west of the Harbor Grand docks, (toward the bay). We were sailing out to the bay when my wife snagged her new (over $2,000) tennis bracelet in the life lines and overboard it went. I am sure it is still living on the bottom about 200 ft from shore. Needless to say she doesn't wear expensive jewelry anymore when we are sailing. We had purchased a Cape Dory 30, dark green hull, from the PJ brokerage. You may even know the boat as it was owned by a person from the area and was custom built for him at Robin Hood Marine, the last on ever built as far as I know. We spent a couple of months at the hotel docks and became friends with the Captain and engineer of a boat being built at PJ named the Anson Bell, we were on her several times over a couple of years and were actually invited to go on her first shake down cruise but couldn't make. Since we own a SunCat I must say I'm impressed that someone would sail one across the lake as we have spent many years sailing that area but the smallest boat was the Dory, I just wouldn't do that.
Jim
sun17cat,
Yes I imposed my will on unwilling aluminum hull plates of the Anson Bell. A fine ship indeed.
As a panel beater she made all of us sweat as we labored to embellish her flatness with beautiful curves.
The 'owner's Party' on board a new ship is a joyous occasion. The party on Four Jacks was the best I ever attended.
One owner years ago before my time flipped the bill to fly the entire crew of "shop rats and tie guys and short skirted sexataries" to Las Vegas, NV for a Friday, Saturday and back on Sunday with spouses to 'Sin City'.
And we had the King of Spain chased in our parking lot by his son using the King's hoovercraft that was the 'Captain's gig'. That was funny. The King could run...
Nobody building nothing there now. It has not been fun to work there for a few years now. Sad to see a good company die again. The wealthy feel they will not be so wealthy anymore under high tax liberalism. So it became "pay a little and walk away from the contract". Wealth does indeed trickle down. Watch what happens at Mercury Marine. The union shot themselves in the foot. GOOD!!
The PJ vender's have PJ on a 'cash only' deal for materials and componets such as...$1,000,000 per each V-16 twin turbo 4000 kw German made Mann Diesel for instance and with five [5] $44 million dollar or so yachts built but not sold cash from the consortium of investors put together by Timmor is tight, people are gone. A 150 foot Sport Yacht was taken to Dubia's boat show did not sell so she came back to Marseille, France as a dock queen to wait for a buyer. I wish PJ's would get back to building truly custom yachts like the former tri-decks. Each boat was different. Not like the current Sport Yachts, they all look the same. We shouldn't do 'cookie cutter' type boats, whats the fun of owning a boat for $millions that looks like your dockmates boat?
Please understand that PJ LLC-Sturgeon Bay, WI is a subsideray to PJ WORLD.
WORLD marks up what we build. Therefore PJ owner, Timmor Mohammad, now living in London, UK can have his boats built not in Sturgeon Bay but anywhere in the world and so he can beat us down in the build price to around $18 million per copy. "We make Millionaires out of Billionaires".
That would be Stone Harbor with it's associated condos and diamonds on the bottom?
As soon as I step aboard my ship Comfort & Joy every thing in all of my pockets is stowed below in a special Velcro pocket attached to the vee birth bulkhead.
Dad and I would sail our Star boat from Belmont Harbor, Chicago to Benton Harbor, MI and back for the week end. I have a picture of the Star after being knocked down in a puff of air with zero fwd motion. No big deal. Dads buddy took the pic. He was just behind us and we kind of stopped sailing so Warran and son John could catch up.
skip.
Skip, Stone Harbor it is, god it's hell to get old. Harbor Grand is in New Buffalo where we owned a slip. Any way we had some memorable times in Sturgeon Bay and love that area of our country.
Jim
Yea, it is a great place to knock about. Sturgeon Bay, Wisconsin.
Even better with a boat!
Were going to have some colorful landscape out here in a short while.
A bit nippely out today at 51 deg F. and a north/northwest wind at 9 with 1 to 2 foot seas...
Guess I'll go sailing a bit later, beautiful sunny day.
skip.