2007 Nissan Versa (ft wheel drive), what do you'all think (be gentle) --- Pat
Well, Pat, way back when, Hutchins touted the CP 16 as being able to be towed by a Pinto! I believe a couple people on this forum did just that. But, the Pinto might be a bit bigger than the Versa (don't know for sure)! It'd be best to check the Versa's towing capacity. Good luck!
Ralph
(http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e148/Mercrewser/100_0189.jpg)
My biggest worry be pulling the boat out with the fwd, if the ramp is slippery you might have a problem.I haul 14 wide swiming pools with a hot shot rig. Nomatter what you tow with alway give your self twice the normal stopping distance, most of the time it's not the towing but the stoping. HAPPY SAILING BILL
If you think about it any car can tow a load. The driver will know by the feel of how hard the car or truck is working if the tow is too heavy.
So what happens if the tow is too heavy?
1~The valve train of the engine begins to labor. As the more explosive air/fuel volume is introduced into the combustion chamber...temp goes up, pressure goes up, valves labor to contain and open to exhaust after combustion. Actually the valves begin to pound harder on to the valve seats. The valve seats begin to recess into the head. [Iron or aluminum, don't matter]. Resulting in a junque head .
You can do this for a while, in out seasonally. But every week end...? It's your car.
2~Piston tops take a beating as do every componet down stream of the piston.
3~But the real problem is stopping and securing the car's tow hitch into the bottom of the sheet metal trunk. Put some extra meat in there!
My buddy who rebuilt Edan's Expressway in Chicago said when he pushed earth with his Catipillar all day and shut her down at the end of the day and he heard knock, knock, knock, knock from the Cat engine he knew that in about a half a year the motor would need rebuilding.
When he pushed with the Japanese dozers and heard the same knocking, he had about four days before that churn needed rebuilding. You decide. skip.
Mr. Burgess in his book Handbook of Trailer Sailing [or something like that] towed a 16 and/or 19 with a Pinto.
I saw a Ford Model A toe a 18 foot Montgomery and launch from a boat ramp. That is mechanical brakes!!!.
I tow my CP 16 with my Toyota Corolla, 4-cylinder. No problems yet after about a dozen launches. The boat launch is about 5 miles away (Venice, FL). That being said, I wouldn't want to travel long distances with it.
Ironically, one day after sailing we were bringing in our CP 16. The launch ramp setup is typical, with two boats being able to load/unload at the same time (left and right sided dock). A truck was trying to pull out a small powerboat, and the rear tires were losing traction on some wet leaves that the tide brought in. I saw this and thought that I was going to be in big trouble... To my pleasant surprise, however, my front tires were well above the waterline, and I pulled out my CP 16 with no effort whatsoever! I didn't even lose traction once.
The powerboat did indeed get out after several attempts (the driver decided to be more gentle and even with the throttle).
More photos: http://www.com-pacowners.com/gallery2/displayimage.php?album=131&pos=14 (http://www.com-pacowners.com/gallery2/displayimage.php?album=131&pos=14)
(http://www.roblash.com/images/launch1.jpg)
(http://www.roblash.com/images/launch2.jpg)
i use a ford winstar van----fwd but 200 hp. i like the longer wheelbase for stability down the road, and i never had a problem on a slippery ramp even on kentucky lake.
I use a Chevy Tahoe (07). 300 hp and rear/all/four wheel drive! I tend to forget the boat is even on the hook. Little or no effect on fuel economy.
ick
i tow my 16 with a 96 winstar with 135000 on the clock. i dont even know its back there and ramps are not a problem. one thing about front drive , the front wheels are usually not in the water unless you did something terribly wrong.
Skip-
Hate to tell ya, but you have some bad info there.
The transmission, axles/driveshafts, U-joints, and main crank bearings (and suspension!) tend to see more wear when you tow. But this is strickly due to the design of the said vehicle. Valves are not tied directly to the load of the vehicle. It's mechanically tied to the crankshaft via a chain or belt. Bogging a 4 cylinder engine with tow in load and 5 speed transmission is murder on the drivetrain in general.
That being said, the reasons why I would NOT tow this boat with an economy car are mostly related to safety. Are the brakes strong enough to get you stopped when some idiot does something stupid to force you to stop quickly? Or it's a downhill grade? Probably not. Is the suspension able to properly distribute the load across the frame, allowing for a neutral handling car...not a chance. If the back end is sagging, you sacrifice steering control and front braking..typically 70+% percent of stopping power is in the front. Another problem...maximum load capacity.
If you take the GVWR on the door sticker and subtract the actual weight of the car, full tank of gas, you and partner, gear, etc you'll typically have only a hundred or so pounds of leeway in an economy car. Subtract the tonque weight and that's your margin for safety. In an economy car, that margin is probably very low. In trucks and "real" SUV's with actual frames (not unibody) that margin is still in the 700lb + range and probably more. With no or little margin in an economy car, you're asking for trouble.
Heck I recall tossing about 1k pounds of sand in the back of a 95 Saturn SC2 (that's the twin valve, 16 valve head). Simply said, the car hated me for it. The clutch got very hot and started to slip, the rear sagged so bad it felt dangerous to drive. That was about a 15 mile trek of city driving
My $.02...if you tow with an economy car, keep towing distances short, keep speeds way down and drive very defensively. Also, don't exceed the towing limit of the car. If there is not a tow rating...the lightbulb should be going off. the Versa has no tow rating!!!
Nice truck, Rick! Have an 05 V8 4runner myself...gotta love the V8's and AWD!!!
But I am one of the few that actually off-roads my SUV. Plus it's great for boondock camping and the snowy weather I see in Great Lakes country. I drive a car whenever possible to save gas and to extend the life of the truck. I'll be hanging on to this jem for many years to come.
I agree with Salty 16,
The power train really takes a beating when towing, That being said, there is nothing like having the right tow vehicle for what you expect to be towing.
I towed my Eclipse home from Tucson AZ with my 1996 Chevy Blazer with a v-6 and towing package, the Blazer had 140,000 miles on it before I did this and ran pretty good and towed well.
The results are, my valves really clatter now and my transmission is begining to slip a bit.
Not necessarily do to the towing the Eclipse home over a distance of 500 miles vs normal wear on the engine but I didn't have these problems until I got home and the car sat for a couple of days.
When I started it up it sure made a lot of noise, thought I had a diesel !
I added some Marvel mystery oil to it, help some but I'm looking at a new motor and transmission........I might start looking at a used tow vehicle that is 1 or 2 years old, alot of good prices on vehicles that people no longer want to buy gas for.
Glenn
I can't quite say that I find anything incorrect about what you guys are saying...
...but, I'll keep taking my chances. (I'm the one above with the photo of the red Toyota Corolla 4-banger).
Of course, the public boat launch is only about 5 miles away, and the only real hills we get around here (Venice, FL) are some mean fire ant mounds...
What I am trying to say, I think... (and this group should find a spot in their hearts for this) ...is that I like my car but I LOVE my Com-Pac 16.
Quote from: Salty16 on January 31, 2008, 11:32:20 PM
Skip-
Heck I recall tossing about 1k pounds of sand in the back of a 95 Saturn SC2 (that's the twin valve, 16 valve head). Simply said, the car hated me for it. The clutch got very hot and started to slip, the rear sagged so bad it felt dangerous to drive. That was about a 15 mile trek of city driving
IMHO, that was way more dangerous than towing a compac 16.
The tounge weight of my boat and trailer is the same as one adult riding in the back seat. I feel that I am within the tow rating the manufacturer rated this car at so I am safe. I tow my boat often, 10 miles or so to the lake, and the car (1996 Saturn 140k on the odometer) has its original cv joints and brakes are fine. I would expect warped rotors if I was working them to hard. I love my Saturn, but I may have to let it go, and I am seriously considering a Honda Civic, using it for the same duty. An automatic transmission would rule out any clutch issues.
ive towed boats with rear and front drive. i think a lot depends on wheelbase. i had a ford bronco two years ago and although it had enough power it could be a little squirly at times. especially braking. the old ford aerostars i ve had both did an excellent job . they were both equiped with 3.73 rear axles. when i bought this 96 windstar 6 years ago i was leary of the front drive, but i had seen a couple of dodge caravans pulling big skiboats so i thought id give it a try. the first thing i did was install an auxillary transmission cooler. put on a receiver hitch and some new brakes. well about 85000 miles later with 135000 on the clock i havent had any problems. the farthest ive had towed a boat (welded duracraft jon boat, 40 horse mariner, two batteries, 12 gallons of gas on a heavy duty haulrite bass boat trailer was to door county wisconsin from stlouis. i had no problem whatsoever. on the flats i can run overdrive but i usually leave it in drive about 3300 rpm at 70 mph. most of us have to compromise with a tow vehicle. we only tow so much and gas milage is a factor. ill probably replace the old van this spring, problem is every time i buy a p/u truck i wish i had a van. call me a soccer mom but a minivan fills the bill for me.
Well, since I'm actually the instigator on this one, I thought I should post an update.
I'm Pat's son (one of many!) and I am the one who set all common sense aside and attached my Nissan Versa to the front of my Compac 16. Believe me, no one is more surprised than I am that the car isn't parked on the bottom of Lake Eustis here in Central Florida!
Before I tell everyone how amazingly well this is working, let me qualify this by saying that all the warnings in this thread are true, if in doubt, go with the 4 wheel drive 500 hp V12. That said, this is working amazingly well!
The car does not have a tow rating here in the states, but I checked overseas and it is rated for 2000 lbs everywhere it is sold under the Tiida nameplate. Several custom hitches are available and it is a snap to install one. With about 100-110 lbs of tongue weight and two kids in the back seat, the rear end of the car barely budges. Naturally I took all excess weight out of the boat and I leave the car out of overdrive, but I don't think it really cares. I barely notice it back there and Nissan must have put in a super low first gear because pulling the boat up our local boat ramp, the steepest one in North America, is effortless.
This does not serve as a recommendation, but having towed this boat and my Dad's with at least five different vehicles, 4cyls, 6cyls, 8cyls/sticks and automatics, this is by far the best combination I've found. I watched a pickup slide backwards into the lake last weekend and, oddly enough, my front wheel drive had no problem with the wheels above the "dead fish line". The brakes seem more than adequate and I do my best not to tailgate.
Granted, I don't live in the mountains and I don't plan to haul it more than 15/20 miles at a time, but still...if anyone out there is on the fence about whether they should buy a Compac 16, go for it, you may be surprised to find that your car can handle it.
I will post an update if I blow the car up!
Thank you to all who posted!
Ryan McLaughlin
Eustis, Florida
(posting as my Dad until my id is "admin approved")
I guess the fwd's do a better job than I thought. I tow with a JEEP and every says ( JEEP forum) do not tow with it. I know every one who tows a COM-PAC will be extra careful out there. HAPPY TOWING BILL
Mercrewser-You're right, hauling 1,000lbs of sand in a Saturn was not so smart!
My concern for the small car owners isn't so much about tongue weight as the dead weight being towed. Tongue weight is important for vehicle handling and sway control. But the "dead" weight is quite a bit for an economy car, IMO.
GCWR (Gross Combined Weight Rating) is the max allowable weight a vehicle can tow including GVWR (Gross Vehicle Weight Rating).
So GCWR-GVWR=max weight allowable of people, trailer, boat, boat gear, hitch if not factory equipped, aftermarket accessories, cooler, etc.
I figure around 1850lbs with a CP16/I, 200lb captain, 140lbs first mate, cooler, lines, misc boat items, trailer, outboard, etc is the number we'll want to stay under for max allowable weight. YMMV.
Personally I wouldn't. The first issue I would think of is your transmission. The Versa has an optional CVT and CVTs just really aren't designed to pull any kind of load. Second is whether or not you can actually get a decent hitch for the Versa. I was looking at putting one on my Audi A4, but the only kind that was available bolted through the sheet metal of the spare tire well instead of actually attaching to anything structural. Lastly the Versa only has a 1.8L engine which would likely be on the anemic side for towing the CP16.
Wow, hobnob..bringing this one back from the dead?
Trip report: Towed my Cp16 395 highway miles each way from Columbus, OH to Carlyle, IL last weekend for the midwest rendezvous. 2005 Toyota 4runner AWD V8. 65-75mph. This is sport version with big brakes. Piece of cake, towed like a dream.
Transmission still feels brand new, and I tow with it often-sometimes with 3,000 lbs loads on it.
Wet mossy ramps are no problem with AWD and Bridgestone Dueler Revo tires. In fact, I can climb fairly steep hills on ice/snow and not have a problem, so boat ramps SHOULD be easy. I also sometimes use a rural dirt/mud ramp at a lake. Still no problem, it's soft mud the whole way down the ramp.
Last month had a camping trailer on it packed full of camping stuff for a week, climbing the mountains of West Virginia on highways, backroads, and mud/gravel roads. Piece of cake too, but heavier feeling.
Now for all those V8 SUV haters..I understand why--but keep in mind some of us have them for good reasons. Like towing boats and trailers in the mountains, winter driving (real winters, not "Carolina snow"), hauling crap from home depot, and off-roading. A car cannot get me to my camping spot, nor can it haul a weeks worth of gear for camping.
Towing in flat Florida for a few miles is probably not that big of a deal. Provided the weight rating is not exceeded.
Salty:
LOL about "Carolina Snow." I live in the foothills of NC. I don't think we even got any snow this past winter. Maybe a dusting, but that closed the schools anyway. ;) Any excuse, I guess. :)
Yes, an SUV is handy, when it's used for it's intended purpose. Glad you guys had a good trip.