I just started sailing my new Sun Cat (Hull# 541) and after today out on Albemarle Sound ended up with about 3" of water in the cabin. According to the manual, you can only bail or use an external manual pump to get the water out. After trying that method for a while and the water level not significantly dropping, I figured what the heck and used the onboard manual bilge pump - which did drain the cabin. I'm assuming the water came from the centerboard somehow and Com Pac has changed the drainage in the cabin to run to the bilge. Does anyone have any insight to this situation? Weather was clear, light winds, no rain. A few days ago, she was dry as a bone.
Cabin meaning inside under cover, not cockpit? (verifying)
I removed and replaced the companionway in my 2010 Sun Cat, and learned there are large openings beneath it right into the bilge. So, if your bilge is full to the point it overflowed, yes, it will go right into the cabin from under the companionway step. Using the bilge pump would therefore lower the levels and, if you're not balanced fore and aft (ie, popping a wheelie), drain the cabin.
This leads to potential usual culprits of scuppers, drain pipes, folded mast open to the sky, etc.
A new boat shouldn't take on water sailing in those conditions. I assume it's under warranty.
You say it was bone dry a few days ago. I'll infer that the boat is in the water, or on the trailer somewhere that you don't visit daily. Was the boat dry at the start of your sail? I'll assume it was, and that it's not rainwater.
That's a lot of water from a leaking centerboard pivot seal, regardless of age. If your trim was way off, heavy in the stern and the scuppers submerged, you'll have water back up the drains. (With an oversized outboard for example.) I don't know at what point that could start flooding the cabin and/or cockpit but I don't recall complaints from SC sailors about the cabin flooding routinely.
At this point I'd guess a defect in the drains or centerboard pivot. Once I spent some more time trying to isolate the problem I'd call Com-Pac.
Thanks for the feedback everyone. The motor is a Torqeedo and I'm not that fat so no excessive loading at the stern. I'll check again this afternoon and see if there is any water. Bilge was pumped out after sailing yesterday. I did notice some water sloshing out of the centerboard line slot in the cockpit, but assume that's normal and would run out the scuppers.
Bilge should be dry and dusty.
It's common on centerboard boats for water to squirt up the tube where the pendant runs down to the board. Water sloshing in the centerboard trunk needs relief, and the tube is the only escape at the top of the trunk. Never much volume, and the cockpit drains should take care of it.
Three inches is a lot of water -
Shoot water down the drains and see if there is a crack in one of the return pipes.
gotta be the scupper tubes. if they are anything like a cp16 then they are pretty thin pvc and prone to damage
Not getting a warm fuzzy with my new boat! She's been sitting in a slip for a week with no additional water in the bilge, so it's only occuring when sailing. I'll have a chat with the factory. There is an older post about leaking from the scupper valves or such, but it wasn't clear what needed to he sealed.
Can't blame you, but it is hull #541. If people were routinely getting 3" of water in the cabin during a sail in calm conditions that would be well documented
I'm not fan of Com-Pac's scupper design at the transom (glassing PVC pipe at thru-hulls rather than using properly-gasketed thru-hull fittings), but I'm not sure that's even relevant here. If you can't find the leak that's OK, tell Com-Pac of your problem. They'll be concerned, and do their best to take care of it.
Hmm. Try sitting well forward of the tiller, shifting balance/trim to keep the scuppers above the water while sailing. If it stays dry, that's a good diagnosis without hauling her out. Feeling lazier? Plug the scuppers from the transom, outside in, like a garboard plug. The scuppers leak because the drain pipe is flimsy and can crack, plus they can break free where they exit the hull. They're not actually through hulls, just glassed in basically. I forget the specifics on how to remedy it, but it's on the forum somewhere. Don't limit your searches to just sun cat page.
Little to add but an observation about water in the cockpit: once when considerably overweight, with 4 in the cockpit and 2 in the cabin (most not lightweights, either) we took on maybe 3 or 4 inches of water in the cockpit which would not drain as the scuppers were no doubt submerged. In that setting the cabin remained dry.
We continue to get water in the cabin after a big rain, and the source of those leaks is stubbornly resisting diagnosis, but these are drips in the cabin and a small puddle at the mast step. Sponge quantity not pump!
I agree that the factory will be responsive and will be interested in their comments and resolution.
Quote from: OldSarge on June 05, 2024, 02:53:21 PMThere is an older post about leaking from the scupper valves or such, but it wasn't clear what needed to he sealed.
These threads cover the scuppers themselves pretty well, but no scupper will stop water from coming up the drains is all conditions. The best, IMO, ball scuppers, will be sucked off it's seat once you get some way on.
https://cpyoa.com/forum/index.php?topic=12575.15
https://cpyoa.com/forum/index.php?topic=11757.msg88922#msg88922
I suspect your problem, as others have said, is in the drain piping.
I finally put my Cat back on its trailer to inspect the scupper drains & flaps. Turns out the lowest drain had bad sealant that allowed water to bypass the drain tube and enter the bilge. Rich at Hutchins was very good about communicating and was ready to do whatever was needed to resolve this issue, but as you can tell it's a very simple fix. I pulled all the others and re-bedded everything with marine adhesive & sealant since if you do one you might as well do all!
I'm glad you found the problem, and stopped the leak. I'm glad Com-Pac responded well, as they should, but a new boat shouldn't leak at the thru-hulls. The design of the drains at the transom is a known issue, as I mentioned earlier.
On the PC, the flat transom has a 3/4" plywood core, same thru-hull design. Not sure if or how the curved Sun Cat transom is cored, but if water continues to leak there any wood will rot making a much bigger problem.
Leaks at the Sun Cat thru-hulls are seen, but, if caught early, generally the damage can be limited.
you have to admit that it is a poor design at best. im guessing it saved money. what else. thats how companies get a bad reputation. in the end they lose customers and money. a shame
"Used a marine adhesive and sealant". I hope you didn't use 5200.
Interesting. I was just sitting down to post about the same problem. I have an 09 and just finished the Salish 100. One point during the trip I noticed the floor of the cabin was quite wet. I thought it must have been a spill of my water jug. On the way home I took my daughter and son in law on a sail on the Columbia River. It seemed that the stern was dragging and that a lot of water was backing up in the cockpit. Later I inspected under the step and flooring under the bridge deck. (earlier I had cut away part of the floor in the area each side of the centerboard trunk so that I could inspect he deep bilge and the bilge pump intake.) There was quite a lot of water in this area. I realized that the boat must have been sitting a lot lower with all the extra water in it. I will take a look at the drain pipes to see if there are any leaks. Overall I have been quite frustrated with this boat. There seems to be one problem after another for a boat that had been "restored" prior to my purchase. Someone in Port Townsend was really interested in it and at this point I am tempted to sell it.
I tested the cockpit drain system by partially plugging the three lower flapper valves in the transom and partially filling the cockpit with water. I could see that there is a pretty big leak at the center scupper and a very small leak at the port scupper where the pipe enters on the back side. I will try and access these and patch them. I have two screw in access ports in my rear deck so that will help. I will either try Marine Tex or thickened epoxy.
It is pretty much impossible to get at the back side if the center scupper. I have a 6" deck plate installed at the base of the starboard boom gallows stanchion. This allows me to barely reach it, let alone do any work. It appears about the only way to really work on it would be another deck plate in the transom, but I will not take this route. Two possible options I explore today. One is to sleeve the 3/4" pvc with 1/2" that goes all the way through from transom to the gas locker. This would be bedded in sealant. The second would be to put transom plugs in each end of the tube from gas locker to transom. This would then rely only on the forward cockpit drains but would definitely solve the leakage problem.
I finally decided to plug each end of the center scupper that leads onto the fuel locker. At the interior I used a rubber expansion plug. At the exterior I used a stainless steel flanged scupper with a screw in plug. I used teflon tape on the threads and after a short test so far the bilge is dry. The end of the bilge had exposed concrete that was under water when the bilge was flooded. I decided this was probably saturated, but worse, may have also allowed water into the keel. At this point there is not much to be done about that. I let it dry for a few weeks. I then glassed in the lower portion of the concrete, leaving the upper portion exposed to continue drying. With an automatic bilge pump (next project) the water should not get deep enough to soak the concrete again. For now I have put the boat back in the marina and use it a while, monitoring the bilge as I go.
Odd question, but has anyone measured the volume capacity of the Sun Cat bilge? I found myself in a situation where the water was in cabin due to Hurricane Milton and a biblical amount of rainfall. Luckily this happened while the boat was on its trailer. If this had happened while afloat, at what point during the pump-out operation do you start considering this water might be coming from below the waterline?