Posting this in the hopes it might help others with a lesson I learned the hard way! I've picked up from multiple authors over the years who've stated that building a boat from scratch is easier than refurbishing (George Buehler comes to mind here). Starting to think they were on to something.....
So some background - '79 CP16, bought as a project, knowing the whole interior would need to be replaced before it'd be launched. I did my research and dove in head first. I'm experienced with woodworking and fiberglass, what could go wrong?
Removed the deck, and over the last 7 months glassed in new stringers, bunks, and everything else inside the hull. Chipped out loose ballast and repoured concrete. Made it "bulletproof", with all new work being epoxy and cloth encased, and tabbed to the hull to make it super rigid and indestructible. Refinished tiller, rudder, brightwork.
After a month+ of waiting for the ballast to cure, paint followed and the end was in sight. After all these long hours of work, sweating away last summer, and freezing this winter, I might get to finally launch this spring.
Got the sealant, rivets, pneumatic rivet gun and lowered the deck onto the hull. Started at the rear stbd corner, and used the factory rivet holes in deck and hull so everything would line up.
Then came the heartbreak......
The last few holes at the bow were off by about an inch, and wouldn't budge. Checked aft corner where I started and fasteners had pulled free there. Crowbars and straps couldn't get the bow lined up, fiberglass cracked as I tried my hardest to wedge it true, but no dice. Somehow, despite never moving the hull off the trailer, she twisted ever so slightly during the rehab (maybe from when the deck was first removed). All the new work tabbed to the hull had made her super stiff, and now she'll never be true again.
Sigh...... maybe it's for the better. The deck needed a lot of work anyhow, lots of gelcoat chips, holes to fill, and a questionable gunwale repair by the previous owner (bondo!). Some people pay good money for an education. Here, the cost of the lesson was fairly cheap: the low original purchase price, materials, and my time. Not life-ending and I sure did learn a lot.
SO... I'm thinking my options now are:
1) Maybe there's another soul out there who thinks she can be fixed. Sell for cheap, giving full disclosure to the new buyer. If no takers, haul deck and hull to the dump, sell remaining bits and trailer to recoup losses.
2) I've been wanting to build a boat for a while, but wouldn't until this one was finished. Here I have a hull and trailer that's ready to go. Build new deck out of plywood (thinking... Badger style, flush foredeck, large cabin, small cockpit). Unstayed mast, junk rig! She's basically worthless in her present state, so why not?
3) Or, any other suggestions? ??? ? What would you do here?
Add Bench Seat and oar locks. :-[
Looks like beautiful work you have done! Your attitude is admirable. I have no boat building experience and no right to venture an opinion (but that never stopped me before). I would consider securing the stern corners and the bow, allowing some offset wherever. Bolt what you can then fiberglass the rest of the hull to deck seams. There have been successful production sailboats that were not completely symmetrical. Best of luck. Eddie C.
You could build a new deck. I always thought the Compacs would look a bit nicer with another 4" of cabin height.
I know how you're feeling. I completely refurbed a boat only to have the deck destroyed in a storm. I didn't want to go through it again with that boat so I sold off all the bits and pieces. I made more money from selling the parts than I paid for the boat and trailer! Then I got a check from the insurance company for a little over twice what I had into her. I ended up way ahead of the game. I delivered the hull to the dump, and 2 weeks later another sailor offered to buy it to make a trawler from it. :o
If your thinking about building a boat you have a great start with the hull you have. I would add a deck and cockpit and you'd have a great day sailor. Just my idea will I'm setting her in Iowa waiting for the snow to turn to water so I can sail on it.
ROGER
Possible to separate the bunks from where they attach to the hull around the perimeter with a roto zip to give relief to the improper set? Remove the new build complete as its own structure. Place deck back on top to reset proper form. This point add temporary cross stringers to hold shape as deck top removed. Place bunk structure back in position adjusting fit for tabs. I know this is a lot of input from the key board side. Hope you can save her.
JP - this is heartbreaking! Your work on the boat is beautiful.
If there's a lesson here, it is that fiberglass hulls are surprisingly flexible. Took me a while to realize that when the rigging on my 19 was properly tensioned with the boat in the water, it was guitar-string taut when the boat was on the trailer. Gravity alone deformed the boat out of the water enough to allow the deck to sag and pull the rigging dangerously taut.
Probably you would have been better off reattaching the hull to deck joint earlier in the process when it would been easier to bend it into position. But I wouldn't have thought to do that either. Maybe your bad luck will save someone else from this experience.
Wes
Quote from: Eddie C on February 25, 2021, 06:16:26 PM
Looks like beautiful work you have done! Your attitude is admirable. I have no boat building experience and no right to venture an opinion (but that never stopped me before). I would consider securing the stern corners and the bow, allowing some offset wherever. Bolt what you can then fiberglass the rest of the hull to deck seams. There have been successful production sailboats that were not completely symmetrical. Best of luck. Eddie C.
Good idea. Had I thought of that while the adhesive was still wet, I would've attached the bow first and made a 2nd attempt.
However, only two of the three corners will line up. It's a slightly skewed triangle now.
Quote from: Cats Paw on February 26, 2021, 04:22:50 AM
Possible to separate the bunks from where they attach to the hull around the perimeter with a roto zip to give relief to the improper set? Remove the new build complete as its own structure. Place deck back on top to reset proper form. This point add temporary cross stringers to hold shape as deck top removed. Place bunk structure back in position adjusting fit for tabs. I know this is a lot of input from the key board side. Hope you can save her.
Thanks for the suggestion.
That's a possibility, but also means I'd basically have to demo some heavy glass work and start over. Bunks are tabbed to the hull with three layers of cloth tape, with epoxy based filler in between. It's way thicker than the hull now. Yeah I could cut it all out, but... what a job.
Thanks everyone for ideas (and, support). Keep 'em coming.
Just sitting here at my work desk on a rainy Friday morning, daydreaming instead of working (I'm certainly not the first to do this!)
For cabin ideas, here's Badger, Auklet, and a sketch I did two years ago in paint using the 16's hull profile.
Auklet is a Phil Bolger "Glasshouse Chebacco" (19.5'). Its sheer line and plumb bow is similar (in my eye) to our ComPac 16 hulls.
Badger, of Pete and Annie Hill fame, is a Jay Benford double ended dory. Maximum interior room was a major design criteria, as this was their home.
Quote from: _JP_ on February 26, 2021, 09:10:08 AM
Thanks everyone for ideas (and, support). Keep 'em coming.
Just sitting here at my work desk on a rainy Friday morning, daydreaming instead of working (I'm certainly not the first to do this!)
For cabin ideas, here's Badger, Auklet, and a sketch I did two years ago in paint using the 16's hull profile.
Auklet is a Phil Bolger "Glasshouse Chebacco" (19.5'). Its sheer line and plumb bow is similar (in my eye) to our ComPac 16 hulls.
Badger, of Pete and Annie Hill fame, is a Jay Benford double ended dory. Maximum interior room was a major design criteria, as this was their home.
Look at it this way... you have repaired the keel and cleaned up the internal part of the hull. If you remove the bunks they can be cleaned up for reuse. Rest of the boat is ready to finish the restoration. If you give up now its a total loss.
I sort of did the same thing. Cut my boat in half re did everything. Glassed in all the wood before re-seating the deck. Started to get a hint of worry as I thought about putting it back together.
When I sat the deck on the hull and clamped them together, it wasn't a perfect fit.
I started by lining up the bow and clamping back from there.
It was a bit wonky, I had to shove a coerce the flanges to line up, eventually they did. Problem was the stern deck was almost an inch proud of the transom.
Devastated.
My thought was that without the deck on the hull when I glassed everything back in, the hull had widened, and thus, shortened the length.
Well, I drilled the holes for the bolts on the sides, and I thought about my problem and all the possible solutions, but first I tried something simple.
With my wife's help, I stuck a screwdriver in the gudgeon and cranked that sucker. It pulled in the too wide back corners and evened the aft edge between the deck and hull.
Clamped and drilled.
It all worked out.
Maybe if you start at the bow and work backward it could work.
I know how much effort goes into rebuilding these beautiful works of joy, so I would hate to see it end in heartbreak for you.
Feel free to message me to ask any questions.
Chris
I also used ss bolts instead of rivets. They were either 1 1/4" or 1 1/2". This allowed me to leave about a 3/4" gap between the deck and hull in which I was able to apply 5200 and not stress. Afterwards I snipped them down with a bolt cutter and installed the rub rail.
The tension between the deck and hull allowed the gap to maintain itself so I could apply the sealant adhesive.
You've put so much work into her already, I would hate to see you give up on her.
Jim: Don't give up! You have a rare opportunity to start with a clean slate, cabin and deck wise. Sit back, mix yourself a nice Dark and Stormy and think about the possibilities!!
Bob23
Hi Jim ,
I built f/glass yachts back in the 70s and because we were experimenting I guess the hulls were laid up thicker and stronger and yours I guess would be the same .
Unfortunately as soon as they come out of the mould they are quite floppy and I know that?s not helpful.
But because the Hull and decks were joined after coming out of the mould we put full length stringers and bulkheads in the hull to help hold the shape but even then the deck alignment wasn?t easy .
I think Jim in your case I would take the deck back off an start putting it back on at the bow , then I think I would cut the transom down the centre line to the top of what looks like a reinforced section and you may be able to splay the sides of the boat out if that doesn?t give enough flex then yo may have to cut the stern out leaving a small flange to redo the transom .
I don?t think you would notice the stern being out of square so to speak ,but if you cut the bow down ,I think it will look terrible and be out of alignment and will spoil the look of the boat.
You have done a great job and I think you will get the deck on with a bit of perseverence.
Good luck
Des
Interesting. Com-Pac back fills the coaming on the PC (and I expect other models) with foam, not for floatation but for support. I never understood why this area would need support, the boxy coaming would have some rigidity, but I can see how this could help hold the shape if things were floppy. Easy to apply, no real downside, like additional weight high, except it makes installing backing plates for hardware a pain.
How your heart must have dropped when you got to the bow. Looks like you are bouncing back with some creative ideas that you have been mulling. The owner of Auklet is a friend. A number of us have traveled Down East to her harbor for annual junk rig junkets, except for this past summer. I was converting my 16 to the rig before I got the 19. The junk sail I made for it now flies on her Pep Hen with one reef permanently tucked in. If you decided to go with the rig there are great resources. I might have saved some old sail plan drawings. I think a pilot house with a junk rig might make quite a boat.
My first junk was back in the early 90's. I bought a storm damaged O'day 23, no mast or sails. A blank canvas as far as the rig. I decided to experiment with a standing lug rig but came across a new junk sail that was close enough to work with a few alterations. Western versions of the rig were using flat sails without camber at that time. The Practical Junk Rig had just been published so I had some direction. The late Phil Bolger designed a simple wood mast and tabernacle for it. Today many including me are using aluminum tube or a combination of aluminum and wood. There is so much information and many resources available today,
Sorry that with all of your beautiful work you haven't reached your goal. If you choose to keep the boat you certainly have many options and a solid hull to start
Phil
ps On another post I'll try to add a pic of my 19 and and another junk rigged 19 ft boat that was professionally custom built starting with a motor boat hull. Having trouble sizing the pic down. We are on our way to one of those junkets.
My two cents is cut her in half again and try one more time before you scrap her. Start at the nose and work your way aft while clamping her as you go.
Consider using nuts and bolts instead of rivets.
I had to "persuade" the sides a bit, but was able to clamp so I could drill new holes. Maybe yours will align.
I saved the stern/transom for last after I had already bolted the rest. The deck was longer by an inch or so. I then persuaded the transom to the correct position, clamped then drilled.
Then I pried the deck up from the hull on the long bolts to apply the 5200. Then screwed them down, but not quite all the way to allow the 5200 to set.
You've got nothing to lose other than your time, effort, and a few bucks on nuts and bolts.
I would remove the deck and clean it up and then use stainless steel bolts as Chris D suggested. I would do a dry fit starting in the middle and put one bolt on the starboard then one opposite on the port. Do this moving torwards the stern and towards the bow. One question, how did it sit before you started to fasten it?
Ahoy, JP!
The weather is just getting warm enough in the U.P. that I started working on my CP-16 project. I have the hull and deck separated, and I have begun cutting new bulkheads and bunks. The only difference in my project is that I replaced all the concrete with lead in an epoxy slurry and glassed over in the keel.
Anyhow, I cut the bulkhead where the compression post attaches, using the original as a template. I noticed already how much the hull has already flexed and bowed out of shape. Seeing your predicament, my first question is did you use the original bunks and bulkheads as templates? I am now rethinking what I will do, and I may reattach the deck before I tab in the bunks and bulkheads. Of course, this will not be as easy, working in a confined space, but I might avoid the problem that you are having now.
Thank you for sharing!
Robert
She's sold!
Sorry I haven't been back for a few days. I got overwhelmed with projects around here and decided to post her for sale locally, just to see what happens. Although lots of folks wanted parts, I was hoping to sell everything as a lot, with the hopes she'd be put back together. One person was interested in the whole package, and was looking for a project. He had a Compac 16 many years ago and shared some fond memories as he looked her over.
I shared the suggestions from this forum, mainly with starting at the bow to refasten, and he decided he'd like to take a stab at it and purchased the whole lot. And just like that, she was gone less than 24 hours after first listing her.
So, I'm "Compac-less" for now, but always have an eye open for the next project. Although.... I think I'll keep the hull in one piece this time! ::)
- Joe
Quote from: philb Junkie19 on February 28, 2021, 11:44:13 AM
....
Sorry that with all of your beautiful work you haven't reached your goal. If you choose to keep the boat you certainly have many options and a solid hull to start
Phil
ps On another post I'll try to add a pic of my 19 and and another junk rigged 19 ft boat that was professionally custom built starting with a motor boat hull. Having trouble sizing the pic down. We are on our way to one of those junkets.
Hi Phil. I came across your junk'd 19 a few years ago (YouTube maybe? Or JRA forum) and was quite impressed. We may have even talked in the past.
I sold the boat yesterday, as detailed above. With the newfound room in the garage, I'm thinking I may try my hand at boatbuilding. Last year, I purchased Dave Zeiger's T16 plans, which includes plans for a junk rig option. Based on Phil Bolger's Birdwatcher, I think it'd be a good fit for the type of boating we'd like to get into.
http://www.triloboats.com/intro.html
http://www.triloboats.com/T16_Study_Plans.html
We'll see what happens!
- Joe
Quote from: LazyDog on February 28, 2021, 10:55:05 PM
I would remove the deck and clean it up and then use stainless steel bolts as Chris D suggested. I would do a dry fit starting in the middle and put one bolt on the starboard then one opposite on the port. Do this moving torwards the stern and towards the bow. One question, how did it sit before you started to fasten it?
How did it sit? Well it was always on the trailer, and I wouldn't think it would've moved much while working on it.
Although I checked for level at various points fore/aft/amidships, during reconstruction, I soon realized that was a futile effort.
I had purchased SS bolts and locknuts for this job, but the thickness of the deck's lip varied so much that the length (3/8"?) wasn't sufficient to use for the entire job. So, instead of purchasing additional bolts, I went with aluminum rivets and washers.
- Joe
Quote from: Hutch on March 11, 2021, 09:10:23 PM
Ahoy, JP!
The weather is just getting warm enough in the U.P. that I started working on my CP-16 project. I have the hull and deck separated, and I have begun cutting new bulkheads and bunks. The only difference in my project is that I replaced all the concrete with lead in an epoxy slurry and glassed over in the keel.
Anyhow, I cut the bulkhead where the compression post attaches, using the original as a template. I noticed already how much the hull has already flexed and bowed out of shape. Seeing your predicament, my first question is did you use the original bunks and bulkheads as templates? I am now rethinking what I will do, and I may reattach the deck before I tab in the bunks and bulkheads. Of course, this will not be as easy, working in a confined space, but I might avoid the problem that you are having now.
Thank you for sharing!
Robert
Hi Robert.
I
did use the original bunks and bulkeads as templates, and made sure they were level to each other (and the top of the hull) when they were tabbed in.
After I was finished with the interior work, I ran across another fellow who installed temporary braces across the hull top, to keep it's form while the deck was off. That's a great idea, but I don't know how to implement it (for instance, the braces should be installed
before the deck is removed, but then how is it attached to the hull with the deck on?).
After my experience, if I was to do this again I would replace the bunks with the top on. This would have to be done in pieces of course in order to fit through the companionway. If not the entire bunk, at least what's possible. Once tabbed and cured, then the deck could be removed. Either that, or install bracing across the hull top in the various places to preserve the hull shape, and then remove the deck.
In your case since the deck's removed already, perhaps lay the new wood in the hull and then temporarily put the deck back on, not completely fastened, but enough to line everything up. Only when you have the hull and deck flanges mated and lined up, then tab your new work to the hull. If you can't get
all the glass work done with the deck on, get at least enough tabbed to the hull so that you feel it won't move too much when the deck is removed again. With the deck back off, you can finish the job and make it pretty.
A pain in the butt for sure, but don't take any shortcuts!
I got a feeling that this problem is more common than it appears on the web, and that others just didn't share. I mean, who wants to show the whole world that they messed up? My feeling is that hopefully I can prevent another catastrophe for someone.
- Joe
Joe, I think the T 16 would make a great project. My first reaction was puzzelment trying to picture how it all comes together but knowing that Dave Z is a serious innovative and unconventional designer I kept looking. Phil Bolger, (I has the pleasure to meet him in the early 90's when I had a project boat with no rig and was thinking about a balanced lug rig to go on the O'day23.) has used plumb high sides to give great bouyancy when healed. Looks like Dave Z writes about and makes advances on that concept to make that small no ballast boat self righting. The Bolger Birdwatcher type open top cabin certainly gives a protected place to sail from. What really caught my attention was the boat on its side in T16 prototype slide show. It looks like an pretty easy build. Of course you may have to get used to being stared at. And thanks for cutting me slack on my sometimes less than desired memory.
http://www.triloboats.com/T16slides.html
i thought restoring my 52 ford p/u was a project. it pales by comparison to sailboat restoration