As Darth Vader said so well "Resistance is Futile" and with that I'm the proud new owner of a 2010 Sunday Cat. The relief of not worrying about a boat this summer was great but every time I saw the neighbors cruising past in their sailboats it pulled at me.
The Sunday Cat is a good fit of lower maintenance, an ability to handle moderate winds and that gigantic 9 foot cockpit for the family to spread out. She's not without wounds from the previous owners so there with be a boat unit or two to bring her back to her rightful stature but that's always part of the adventure. Learning to sail a catboat will also be an adventure so The Competitive Cat book is already set for Christmas from the kiddos. I'll be posting more so sure and will be definitely be part of BBB 21.
Congrats on the "new" cat! Our experience with the Sun Cat, now just past our third season, suggests that to an extent, sailing is sailing. The cat rig will challenge only a few of your cherished assumptions and the Sun and Sunday are truly forgiving boats. We find that the slightest breeze will move you along and more serious wind can be handled with relative ease (do learn a bit about reefing in gentle weather, so you are ready when it is needed).
Lovely boat. Sunday Cats are definitely harder to come by, but just perfect for a post-social distancing sailing outing. Hopefully that describes 2021 well.
Congrats on the new boat.
Hi,
Some years ago, I had an '04 Horizon cat. After a while I thought I needed more room and moved to a 26' Hunter. But two years ago I moved to a new (to me) 2014 Horizon Day Cat.... yes these are fun and flexible. My wife and I found we weren't overnighting.
I agree about the pleasure of putting the boat onto a trailer whenever a hurricane starts sliding up the coast. There are even times when I unstep the mast while on the water to get under a bridge or in preparation for trailering.
I was looking pretty hard for a Sunday Cat, but before I could find a good one, I came across the Day Cat.
These are great for sailing in the lower Chesapeake. Enjoy!
Good Luck,
Steve
Welcome, Reighnman.
I sail a 2012 SunDayCat which was new-to-me 3 years ago.
Have modified it a bit from what the previous owner had, to better suit my needs.
The more successful modifications include a 2:1 throat halyard, and a gaff downhaul.
Congratulations on your new-to-you SunDayCat.
Regards, Roland
Hey there Ryan! Congrats on the new ship! And we're all looking forward to the Barnegat Bay Bash, 2021. Unless you plan to sail all the way from your home to the Bash, I know of launch ramps and transient slips.
I do like the idea of a smaller boat but I'm still in love with my old 23 so it looks like we're in it for the long haul.
Cheers!
Bob23
Roland- Do you have a picture of how you rigged the 2:1 throat halyard?
DanM,
I don't have any pictures readily available but I'll try to describe it:
I hung a becket block from the lower of the two bails on the mast.
(I'll be making a custom bracket during this winter season to improve this part of it to reduce congestion and interference at the bail.)
Used a Harken 57mm Carbo single sheeve becket block, which can be locked into either orientation, or left free to pivot.
I used it locked so the the sheeve axis is perpendicular to the mast, with the block itself lying against the mast.
I attached a turning block to the gaff gooseneck where the throat halyard previously attached.
Again used a Harken 57mm Carbo single sheeve block also locked into the same plane as the becket block above.
A longer line is needed of course. The new throat halyard is routed from the upper block's becket, then down around the lower block, then up and around the upper block, and back down to the turning block at the base of the mast. The line goes around the blocks so that when the line returns down it is slightly offset to the side (starboard) where the mast base turning block is.
It has for me significantly reduced the difficulty raising the sail, although you must pull a greater length of line.
My arrangement at the lower mast bail needs to be improved, which is why I will be making a custom bracket. (Fortunately, the small company from which I retired does a lot of stainless steel sheet fabrication and I will enlist their help making something from their scrap.) To test, I had temporarily moved the block from that lower bail to the upper bail and routed the peak halyard directly up to and around the block at the upper bail, then around the gaff's turning block and back to a 'becket' on the block at the upper bail. Fortunately the block which I had there, not the factory original, could be used as a pseudo-becket block.
The original throat halyard cheek block has been abandoned but not removed. These are all bolt-on changes and could be readily removed to return to the factory configuration. But I am pleased with the change and will not be undoing it. But it does give a future owner the option of returning to the factory configuration.
There is an alternate 2:1 arrangement that could be done if you are willing to move the throat halyard cheek block higher to accommodate the length of the turning block at the gaff gooseneck. Here you anchor the halyard line high on the mast. Route it down to the gaff gooseneck turning block, back up to the halyard cheek block and down to the turning block at the bottom of the mast. This requires fewer parts, but the cheek block must be raised higher, a longer line is still needed, and a turning block at the gaff gooseneck is still needed. I believe Bruce had this arrangement put on his PicnicCat by the factory when he purchased it. Perhaps he can give you some insight on how well that works for him.
Regards, Roland
Hey Dan,
Roland is right. I knew I wanted 2:1 purchase on the throat halyard, to match the peak halyard, so I had Com-Pac do it for me. There's been no issues other than I replaced the swivel block they used at the throat gooseneck with a fixed block. The halyard would twist no matter how careful I was to remove/avoid any twisting in the line.
The halyard is fixed to an eye strap at the top of the mast, above the shroud and below the lower bail for the peak halyard. It runs down to the gooseneck block, back up to a cheek block opposite the eye strap, and down to the cheek block on the mast stub. All blocks are Harken 40C.
The first photo shows the halyard as it is currently. The second and third show the eye strap and cheek block at the top of the mast (red marker). The last photo shows the twist I got with the swivel block, sometimes I'd get two twists.
The extra length of line doesn't bother me, I'd much rather haul the halyards at the same rate. It does add some friction, but not much. Many have already added a throat downhaul to assist dropping the sail with the 1:1 purchase.
Thanks guys, for the explanations and photos. The SC is put to bed for the winter, but I'll think about this for a Spring project. The first mate sometimes struggles with raising the throat all the way (as others have mentioned). I was considering putting a small winch on the cabin top, like I've seen on the Horizon Cat. The idea of a 2:1 purchase seems a more elegant solution! Cheaper and easier, too. (And no head-banger bolts on the ceiling of the cabin, too.)
Finally raised the mast and yeah it'll be a curve for sure. Not even sure I'm following everything written. My first question/concern is the mast seems racked, is this standard? And is the tiller suppose to touch the bottom of the insert it goes through? It's pretty scratched up and I'm not sure if the first owner installed an aftermarket tiller. He did take a heavy sander to the teak laminate drop boards so it's basically trash. I was under the impression Compac only used solid teak for it's boards so perhaps it's after market.
Dan,
Easy enough to test to see if it's going to work for you, before you get too fussy. Just need some kind of block to fasten to the throat gooseneck, and any old line that's long enough, temporarily fixed at the top, to the peak halyard bail for example.
Bruce, .yes, a temporary mock-up like that is a great idea. It occurs to me that if I start screwing or riveting hardware into the mast, I also have to make sure to protect the internal wiring to the masthead light. Thanks for the idea. Again, a good project for Spring. Dan
DanM:
Precisely why my 2:1 throat halyard modification is entirely a bolt-on arrangement.
Regards, Roland
Reighnman:
Comments about your mast rake aft:
My SunDayCat mast positions fully vertical within the mast hinge collars.
Your collars appear to not be fully seated together.
even though they are together enough to engage the curved safety pin.
Please check whether the side shrouds are overly tight, and thus restraining the mast from going further vertical.
Also, your forestay cable, between mast and gin-pole, may be a little long.
Please check whether the previous owner added any extra length to it with miscellaneous shackles or whatever.
My ginpole, which Com-Pac calls a leverage yoke, is perpendicular to the mast. Yours is angling downwards.
That takes away working length for the forestay block and tackle.
If the block and tackle (not shown in your photo) is pulled fully closed, it cannot be pull the mast further forward.
By the way, you do not want the mast raked aft. That will induce further unwanted weather helm.
Regards, Roland
Greetings all,
Does anyone have a preferred Loos gauge setting for the side stays on the Sunday Cat [besides being equal :-)]? Gerry didn't have a recommendation when I bought the boat.
After two seasons I want to inspect the tension before sailing next season...
Happy Thanksgiving!
- Stay positive and test negative
Regards,
Mike
I've been wondering about this too. So far I've heard "not too tight" which I didn't find exceptionally helpful. I did tighten each side a couple turns late in the summer because the slack on the lee shrouds seemed (symmetrically) excessive.
I've always tensioned my shrouds by sailing close hauled in winds around 10 mph. If the lee shroud has any slack I hand tighten it until I can't turn the turnbuckle any further by hand. Then tack and do the same for the other side. Once back at the dock sight the mast to be sure it's still plumb. At that point I can plumb the mast if needed by loosening one side and tightening the other an equal number of turns without changing the overall tension.
No idea if that's the correct way but I've been using this method for decades and have never had a problem.
Fred
I agree with Roland, that the shroud in Reighnman's photo looks to be too tight. I've never heard of anyone purposely raking the mast on a SC.
I understand the desire to quantify shroud tension with a Loos gauge, but in the 10 years I've followed discussions of SC standing rigging I've seen little support for that.
Here's some links from this forum. Capt. Nemo (aka Don Nelson) liked to take on the topic.
https://cpyoa.com/forum/index.php?topic=7150.msg52383#msg52383
https://cpyoa.com/forum/index.php?topic=4869.msg33950#msg33950
https://cpyoa.com/forum/index.php?topic=4869.msg33946#msg33946
Here's some links from the Catboat forum on the TSBB (previously active, now dormant). There is content, if you can wade through the banter.
https://forum.trailersailor.com/post.php?id=1234975
https://forum.trailersailor.com/post.php?id=978111
https://forum.trailersailor.com/post.php?id=977018
The lee shroud will always be loose, I wouldn't make adjustments underway, I think you'll get way too tight. The step on these boats is not designed for heavy downward loads, and the forestay lever will be a bear. In addition to the suggestions in the links, sight the mast under load. If it stays vertical then the rigging is doing it's job. A buddy boat may be helpful here.
One of the issues causing confusion on my end was the differences in the set-ups between the Sunday Cat and Sun Cat. Seems the Sunday has a block/halyard system and the Cat has a quick release system. I've loosened the tension and the mast is now much closer to vertical. For those that keep their boats in a slip, do you lower the mast or leave it up? I'll do a search as I'm sure this has been discussed.
The block and gin pole system I believe is now standard. My 2004 Suncat does not have it, and once I figured out line organization on takedown, I don't really feel like I need it, at least at this point. Com-Pac sells the retrofit for those who want it.
Most of the difficulty I've had with raising and lowering the mast on my own (100% trailer-sailor) arises from the Lazy Jack system installed by the PO. It works fine, but it's a two leg per side system that becomes quite slack when I lower mast. This creates loops that seem to have an inorganic genius for hooking around the gaff or the boom on the next raising.
Honestly, I don't think I'd miss the Lazy Jacks if they were gone, but a simple topping lift might be essential. I may just try that out in the spring. Has anyone else gone that route?
Renae, I agree slack lazy jacks can take perverse pleasure in tangling in the sail bundle, the peak halyard is a distant second in that.
My broker had his sailmaker set up our lazy jacks. I've made several changes to the hardware, but the layout has remained the same. A line made up to the boom, port side aft, that runs up to a block attached to a line fixed to the port mast head, then back down, under the boom, back up to a block attached to a second fixed line at the stbd mast head and back to a cleat on the boom opposite to were the line started. It has a particularly long tail, that confused me at first, but once I recalled the broker's instructions it all made sense.
The point was, before dropping the sail, slack off the lazy jacks, bring the legs on both sides forward and loop them over the long pin, and snug them up. The lazy jacks now lie tight along the mast and boom, and don't get tangled in the sail bundle when the mast is folded down. I do the same with the peak halyard.
Hopefully the photos make sense. The lazy jacks have the blue marker, the peak halyard is green, and the the throat is red.
One more reason for me to eventually get a long pin.
Ryan,
Congrats on the Sunday cat.
My cp 19 originally had laminated drop boards. I ordered the replacement teak ones form Hutchins.
Ryan,
Can't say about SC sailors, but most PCs leave their mast up in a slip. The sail or a boat cover could be modified for the standing peak halyard, and lazy jacks if applicable, or the lines could be brought forward to the long pin as above. We dry sail, I'll let others say what kind of halyard slap you'd have with all those lines running up the mast!
I have seen it suggested that you could just slack the peak halyard so it sags down, and put the sail cover on and let the peak halyard emerge from the open seam under the boom and just flop around. Maybe for the short term, pretty low on the Bristol scale.
Renae, my original long pin, just hanging on the lanyard, had been snagged a couple of times raising the sail. The second time it went overboard. I made up a new one out 1/4" SS rod, and mounted a holster on the front of the mast stub so it wouldn't foul as readily. I made the pin longer (8") to make looping the lines over it easier. It's worked well.
I had the same hangup problem with the long pin that Bruce describes. My solution was a threaded bolt about 1/4" longer than the span and a plastic piece I found in the bins at the hardware store that I could thread to hand tighten. We are now (well, not right now) in a seasonal slip and leave the mast up (why wouldn't you?) so I could put a lock nut on the bolt since it would only be installed/removed on one launch and retrieval.
Our SunCat is on a mooring ball all season (without a cover) and we leave the mast up. Just raise it once in the Spring and drop it once in the Fall. No problems with that (except when spiders build a web on the windex!). By the way, this is maybe obvious; but if you drop the mast and don't use a full boat cover, you have to make a cover for the mast hinge so that rain doesn't go down the open mast stub and into the bilge. Sometimes I have the SC on land with mast down and not covered, like when I'm working on it, so I cut the side out of a detergent bottle so that it slips over the whole assembly and then tie it on. I guess you could make a fabric boot instead.
DanM:
Check out this thread for a source for a canvas mast hinge boot:
https://cpyoa.com/forum/index.php?topic=11087.msg83661#msg83661
Regards, Roland
good tip in the "mast sock" thanks. a more elegant solution and easier to store, too.
Thanks for the insights on mast or down. The boom appears to have all the hardware for lazy jacks, not sure if that's standard by Compac but it helps me for sure. Bruce, your lazy jack system sounds great, and the photos really help too.
I do like the single cleat, back by the helm. It doubles as a topping lift as well, of course. After I raise the mast I tighten the lazy jacks until the boom hovers about an inch over the gallows, and tighten it down to the gallows with the sheet. When I raise the sail the lazy jacks go slack, and don't rub on the sail, so no adjustment is necessary. The only disadvantage I see is the long tail. I store it on the boom with a bungee cradle, that works pretty well.
I've seen two-line systems, with cleats on both sides of the boom. Not sure of the advantage.
Mine originally had a horn cleat, which I'd rather avoid on the boom. I prefer a faster acting cleat, with less snag potential. I went to a cheek block and a lance cleat. I did work on decreasing friction where the line passes under the boom. Two fairleads made up out 3/4" StarBoard, and 2" Teflon tape. Runs better, but not a huge improvement.
Rather than dealing with a long tail on the lazy jacks, I recall a friend used a gathering line on his PC, that he learned of when he was a Florida Bay Mud Hen owner.
He installed a horn cleat on the front of the mast stub to store the line, but as you'll see that isn't really necessary. The line would come into to play just before the forestay was released and the mast folded down. Before dropping the mast, the gathering line, made fast to the cleat, would be passed outside of the shrouds, peak halyard, and lazy jacks and brought back to the cleat. The mast would be dropped, and all the lines mentioned would lie in a heap wherever they wanted. He would haul on the gathering line and bring the tangle of lines forward to the stub, straightening as they went, parallel to the boom. He then brought the line around the top of the mast stub, and back along the boom, tying a series of running half hitches to neaten the sail and spar bundle. He finished with a clove or rolling hitch. He started with 30' of line, and trimmed it shorter when he saw how much he really needed.
I use a Star Brite Sail Lash Centipede to bundle my sail, which I like, so I would forgo the running half hitches. Minimally, all I'd use would be the line, made up to something on the mast stub, around the standing lines, and back to the mast stub. After you've straightened the lines in the bundle, you don't really need to cleat it off, its work is done. To raise the mast, the line needs to loose, of course.
I can see some potential for snags in the bundle, but this could be very effective, and very easy to try with any old bit of line lying around. I'd love to hear feedback on how it works for others.
Great info Bruce! On a more rudimental note, I'm confused with halyard setup. The peak and throat halyard are currently run on the starboard side of the coach roof with cam cleats and cleats. There's a cleat and fairlead on the port side with an unused block on the mast. What is the standard setup for the Sunday Cat? From the video by Compac I see the port cleat in use.
It was intended for the boom downhaul, 2:1 with a block on the gooseneck. I know several have repurposed it. The luff is easily tensioned with the throat halyard and a simpler downhaul made up to a horn cleat mounted in the track in the mast stub.
I don't have a good photo to share, hopefully someone has one to post.
On our Sun on the port side there are two rope clutches. One is used as a boom downhaul, the other attached to the reef tack ring to pull the luff down and secure from the cockpit (when reefing). There have been enough mods by the PO that I have no clue whether these were original, but these have made sense to me and remain.
My Sunday Cat is 2 seasons old and has one boom downhaul on the port side. Starboard is throat and peak halyards. All OEM.
@Bruce - your lazy jacks are interesting. I used much thinner line since there isn't much pressure on the rig and have the bitter end tied off to the mid-boom attachment point after going through a cleat. I'll have to try bringing it forward to store. I generally just tuck the LJ lines into the sail ties before I put the sail cover on.
Regards,
Mike
Hey Mike,
No argument from me on either point. There's no great load on the lazy jacks, even if being used as a topping lift. To me, it's about handling the line, and how skinny do you want to go.
Bringing the line forward works well, of course. Here I would argue that, as the primary trimmer, I want the action to be back at the helm. There is a second point that is specific to my role as a PC sailor. The boat is so light that any shift in crew weight is significant. If my 200 lbs. go forward to the mast, for any reason, it's a big deal. I have several friends who have downsized from bigger boats. They like the PC, but readily admit it's not the easiest to single hand, due to the live ballast issue. I won't pretend to speak for SC sailors on this.
Had my first sail on Saturday and I must say I was overly impressed. It was blowing solid 15 with gust up to 20knts and waves were 1-2ft. I tried starting with a reef but couldn't get good shape to the sail so I let it out and away we flew. We hit 6.1 but that was tide assisted. When I lowered the centerboard you immediately felt her dig in and she wanted to go into the wind. Decided to raise it back up since we were just beam reaching back and forth but it's really nice to have when needed. Can't say enough good things about it so far, it was great being back on the bay sailing and able to dip my hand in the water. I loved the 25 but there's something about being right down on the water in a smaller boat. I did miss the ease of starting with a key vs. reaching off the back with a pull cord though. All in all I can see why the Suncat and Sunday cat are a wanted vessel.