Hello PC Nation, just wondering if the self bailing cockpit drains well while underway. I was wondering if anyone has tried this and if so did you remove both stern plugs or will removing just one stern plug will do the trick. Thanks, C.B.
No, the drains are too close to the waterline. Most are trimmed down by the stern and water comes up the drains.
If you're in threatening conditions, where you need the cockpit to drain as soon as possible, then leave the plugs out. Otherwise, like the rest of us, put the plugs in and avoid wet feet. At rest, and slow speeds, ball scuppers work well. The rubber flaps are ineffective on the PC. TH Marine makes the ones most commonly seen. The fastener holes line up perfectly with what Com-Pac installs.
https://thmarinesupplies.com/products/flow-max-ball-scupper
Bruce, when I board the boat, I "try" to remember to put the plugs in as soon as possible, then manually bail whatever water remains in the stern. Will the ball scuppers make enough of a difference to reduce that?
Yes, they will. We dry sail. We take the plugs out when get home after a sail so the wash down will drain out of the cockpit. If we then forget to reinsert the plugs for the next time, we can launch, board the boat, set everything up, back away from the dock, and power up for our transit out of the cove before we'll realize that we've forgotten the plugs. The scuppers will remain sealed until we are going a few kts., at that point the balls will get sucked off their seats and water will enter the drains, if we are trimmed down in the stern. When we're sailing, we can trim the boat on its lines so the drains are out of the water, we carry about 100 lb. of sand in gaffer bags in the forward locker for that purpose, but I can assure you that if I'm back at the motor, the drains will be submerged. At least I can blame any recent weight gain on COVID 19. ;)
A friend installed ball scuppers on his PC, that he kept on a slip. Made all the difference, he could board and go to the stern to install the plugs, remaining dry.
Thanks Bruce, I will look into those ball scuppers. Any problems with installing them? Removing the existing ones? Thanks, C.B.
No, the fastener holes matched perfectly, in 2011. Just self-tapping screws into the plywood-cored transom, so I bedded the screws in Sikaflex. I didn't bed the scupper itself, the layer next to the hull is the soft silicone gasket material that the ball seats on so I trusted that to seal to the gel coat well enough.
I'm always concerned about all of the fasteners in the transom, but haven't heard of any rot problems. Certainly potential for it, especially for boats left in the water.
CB, I just ordered a set from Amazon. The TH Marine link Bruce provided is not currently taking orders, but the same product was available elsewhere. At about $20 each (x2), it seemed a little pricey considering it's just plastic, but I like to keep my feet dry.
I know we've been cross-chatting about this on two different forum topics. I'll post an update on both once I install them.
Thanks Bruce and Glenn. Stay safe!
Same to you, Bob.
I see the self-draining cockpit as a marketing opportunity. I've drafted a press release.
"Always the innovator, in the Picnic Cat Com-Pac provides a novel self-filling feature, designed to replenish the cockpit live well and foot wash with locally-sourced, fresh and sparkling water. Farm to table for your summer dining!"
I have the ball scuppers installed. To keep feet dry, I also have installed a cockpit grate. Easy to build one for astern of the centerboard for when using motor.
Bruce, this is great!
Quote from: bruce on April 29, 2020, 07:58:53 PM
"Always the innovator, in the Picnic Cat Com-Pac provides a novel self-filling feature, designed to replenish the cockpit live well and foot wash with locally-sourced, fresh and sparkling water. Farm to table for your summer dining!"
just curious. when boat is moored and its raining hard does it self drain?
Roger, from what I have read the boat will self drain until you get in it. Then it's time to get your feet wet while you are putting in the stern plugs. C.B.
I finally got my 2018 PC out of the water after two years, and one of the maintenance things I did was to replace the OE scuppers with the TH ball scuppers. I always sail with the drain plugs in, but I keep them out at the dock (even though I have a full cockpit cover) so the cockpit could drain if needed. The ball scuppers let far less water into the cockpit than the OE ones when I hop in the boat and scramble to get the plugs in. https://www.wholesalemarine.com/t-h-marine-flow-max-ball-scupper/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI1cjmmMzP6QIVGcDICh0XtgAqEAQYBSABEgJMLvD_BwE
Just curious, PawsCat, about how many PCs have been built. What's the hull number on your '18?
I installed the TH ball scuppers a few weeks ago. I think they are marginally better than the original flaps, but not enough to really make a difference. I still end up with a pint or 2 of water in the stern before I can get the plugs in. I did notice that the original flaps were bent outward a bit. Maybe if I turned them around, they would be more effective (or would that prevent water draining out?). The other thing about the balls is that I've noticed them fouling a bit already. Will probably need to remove & clean them periodically. Not a big deal, just trying to avoid bailing every time I go for a sail.
Glenn,
I was out yesterday, with the ball scuppers and very tired, 10 year old drain plugs. No water came up the drains, and I'm sure it wasn't because of the plugs, they are hard and loose. I'm sorry you're having problems, but they ball scuppers have worked well for me, and many others.
The rubber flaps don't seat with any authority. They might be suitable for a drain well out of the water, against a significant wave, but not the drains on the PC. The seal of the ball to the silicone seat should not leak, if installed correctly.
Send some photos if you want help troubleshooting!
Glenn, how's your trim fore and aft? The scuppers should be out of the water by an inch or two when you leave the boat. Our boot stripe is about 4" above the waterline, and parallel. I just checked with a friend who kept his PC in a slip on Cape Cod Bay, and he didn't experience fouling with his ball scuppers. He had the same problem, that water would come up the drains when he boarded and headed aft to install the plugs. The ball scuppers made all the difference.
Here are two pictures: the first taken from above, with me in the boat leaning over the stern. The scuppers are completely submerged, but this is maximum weight in the stern (not typical). The second has only the weight of the motor (taken from a dinghy behind the boat). You can see the fouling, but it seems to be mainly on the plastic casing, not the ball or the silicone seal. This is only 3-4 weeks after installation, so I'll need to keep cleaning them. At least the case is easily removed, though the set screw is a little awkward to get to with the boat in the water. But it seems the weight of the motor is keeping the scuppers a little lower than optimal. It's a Tohatsu 3.5 and weighs about 43 lbs. Not much I can do about that. So with a little wave action, a small amount of water freely comes in & out. If I had longer arms I might be able to put the drainplugs in before I get in the boat. Not much I can do about that either.
Thanks, Glenn. A couple of quick questions just to cover the bases. Do the ball scuppers work when clean? Both sides? I didn't use bedding compound under the silicone ring, relying on the silicone to seal on the smooth/flat gel coat. I was concerned the bedding compound wouldn't be as flat, and could distort the silicone ring and seal. I did bed the screws in the transom, to protect the plywood core.
43 lbs. for the motor is as much as I'd want, but should be OK. My Honda 2 weighed about 30, but the Lehr 2.5 and my current Spirt 1.0 are around 40. I'd try playing with trim first. Looking at the overall load, and shifting, or possibly adding some forward. Obviously you want any water in the cockpit to drain, but you might be able to gain an inch or two at the scuppers. On our boat, the CB trunk is within a degree of being parallel with the boot stripe, so I use a level on the CB trunk to test trim. Easier than looking over the side.
Unless you object, I'll post your photos on the PC Groups.io list and see if anyone there has had similar issues and found a solution. I'm not the one to ask, but that seems like a lot of growth in 3-4 weeks!
I think you're right about the trim. Even when the scuppers were new, they sit right at the water line and any wave action sloshes some water in & out. The balls Seem to bob around if they're not fully submerged. The motor is a Tohatsu 3.5. More than I really need, but not looking to invest in changing it. What would you suggest to add forward weight? A sandbag in the front compartment? I don't keep any gear that has heft to it, just some lines and fenders.
Thanks for the feedback. Sounds like you're super light, so some extra weight won't be a problem.
I use 100 lbs in sand in gaffer bags for trim when it's just my wife, our Scottie, and me sailing. I'm the heavyweight, at the helm, so I put them in the forward locker. If we do have additional crew, I can take the bags out, if I remember. Weight in the bow isn't good in general, but what the boat lacks in fine entry, it has plenty of buoyancy. We also have an anchor on a bow roller and rode up there. Still, at rest, our boot stripe is roughly parallel with the waterline.
Experiment with whatever you've got handy. Jugs of water would work. I don't secure the sand bags, but it would be better if I did. If we do turtle, they'll find the new down.
Thanks Bruce! I'll give that a try.
I know it isn't apples to apples, but I had a fairly serious problem of shipping water up the scuppers on my 23. I removed a 104 lbs. 9.9 el four stroke and replaced it with a 59 lbs. 6 hp sail pro and have not had a drop since. The lighter motor also solved several other problems, the most impacting was trying to get it to lift up when not in use. The spring assist on the lift was not what was needed for that weight and my poor back took up the slack. With the sail pro, the lift does all the work.
I agree, Brackish. I thought he might be trying to use a motor that he already had, or came with the boat, that was clearly too big. 43 lbs. for a PC is an upper limit, but I bet he can trim to balance the motor effectively, before springing for a new motor.
We have the opposite problem with the motor mount. The spring rate on the mount Com-Pac provides is overkill, we have to cut 1-2 of the 8 lift springs to get the motor down without climbing on top of it.
Wow - that has to be one of the best $5 investments I've made! I added two 50-lb. bags of sand in canvas duffels in the front locker. My scuppers are now about 2" above the waterline (boat empty). My prop is out of the water too, which is an added bonus since I was thinking of replacing the motor mount next year to keep it from fouling. The motor came with the boat - if I ever replace it, I'll go with a smaller one. Chipped a few barnacles away from the prop and the scuppers and I think I'll be good for a while. Thanks again for the idea!
Excellent, Glenn, I'm glad it helped. I see Tim's checking on your avatar issue. Hopefully he can sort it out.