I just purchased a beautiful fresh water picnic 14 in Texas. Not a mark on it Will be towing it to our home in Pittsburgh then later on to the Jersey Shore (Surf City in Barnegat Bay) Any other owners down that way please speak up. Might be fun to get together.
In addition here is my concern. Has anyone ever swamped a 14? Do they sink? Any flotation? I heard some folks put those flotation bags that are used in the Optimist pram inside the side lockers.
Hey Roger, welcome aboard!
No need to panic, the PC is no more prone to capsize than any other, non-ballasted, center boarder. Yes, they can capsized, but in the 20 year production run, there are only a few instances of this happening, and, what should be reassuring, the times it's happened have been split between experienced and inexperienced sailors alike. I, like many, install floatation bags, the installed floatation is minimal. I also looked at the Marshall Sandpiper 15, and the recommendation was similar. Catboats, as a class, are suited to protected waters, with their broad hull form they have great initial stability, but once the righting moment is exceeded, they will go over and likely turtle. It would be a bad day, but I know of no injuries or boat losses.
Lots of experienced sailors here, including on Barnegat Bay. The PC is a safe boat. Let us know your intended use, and we can make recommendations.
Thanks for the reply. I will be mainly on Barnegat Bay which is tame but sometimes can get really nasty. I have been boating on it many years in my various sized Boston Whalers . I have learned to read the sky pretty good but the pc is a lot slower than the whaler in trying to get back so I will most likely invest in air bags and a good plastic bucket!
Any other bags around other than the ones that are used for the Optimist prams?
Hi Roger! While I don't live in Surf City, I do work on LBI and my 1985 23 was moored for years at the end of North 2nd Street. She now resides in a marina in Waretown. I'd love to get together sometime when you're here. Every Summer we host the Barnegat Bay Bash which traditionally has been held near Tice's Shoals. Not sure if that's going to be allowed this summer but we still plan to get together! Stay tuned...check the events section. Welcome aboard. And ignore the lies that are being spread about me! Lies, all lies!
Bob23
Quote from: Bob23 on April 25, 2020, 08:08:00 PM
Welcome aboard. And ignore the lies that are being spread about me! Lies, all lies!
Except that one, though. Right?
Hey Roger,
Not sure if we're talking power or sail on your Boston Whalers. We avoid iffy weather as well, but have been caught out a few times. I've seen 5.6 kts., SOG, on our PC, once, 5.4 kts. several times, but if the chop is up we won't be getting close to that.
There are lots of ways to add floatation but we like the 43L Optimist floatation bags. We have 8 and still have plenty of room for gear, about 800 lbs. of floatation. Two jam nicely in each stern quarter aft of the side lockers, two I suspend athwartships, tight under the deck, aft of the mast stub in the forward locker. The last two tuck under the sole against the centerboard trunk. I replaced the long pointy self tapping screws that Com-Pac used on the hatch hinges and mast collar with machine screws and cap nuts if I felt the bags were threatened. I don't remove the bags seasonally. They lose pressure in the cold weather, but with warmer temps and they'll be fine. If you did pump them up cold they could over inflate when it warms up.
Another thing we did was mount a lanyard on the CB so if we do turtle there's something to grab to pull the board out. The EPDM weatherstrip we attached to our hatches isn't watertight, but should slow the flooding down. I should make up a plug for the hawse pipe for heavy weather, but haven't got around to it.
Thanks for the input. Please explain the lanyard to pull the board out?
I assume from the pics that you just drilled a small hole in the board and put a ss bolt and washer through it?
Nothing fancy, just a simple pull tab to have a chance of pulling the 75 lb. board out of the trunk if the boat has turtled. I got this one at West Marine.
https://www.westmarine.com/shackle-lanyards/_/N-1z13m1j
I haven't capsized my PC. 30 years ago I would have done it for the fun of it. These days, I'd gladly watch someone else do it to their boat, and help with the recovery until it wasn't fun. ;)
Putting weather strip on the hatches is easy and will slow any flooding. The boat will trap air, but the factory installed floatation is minimal. I'd guess, without additional floatation, upright the boat would settle with the coaming barely exposed. But, bottom line, the boat is very stable and not easily capsized.
Roger,
I too have a PC and sail on the Barnegat. Beware of Bob, jist make sure your dues are paid up.
I mainly sail north of the rt 37 bridge, but plan to explore the southern bay more this year. I hope you will join us for the Barnegat Bay Bash!
I have the scupper ball set up, and a cockpit grate, and that works pretty well for me.
See you on the bay.
Brian
good suggestions.
I will do a few of them
what is the cockpit grate?
what is a cockpit grate and the scupper ball?
sorry, im new to this
Hi Roger,
Although I have neither on my PC or HC, a cockpit grate is just that - a grating over some or all of the cockpit sole that elevates your feet an inch or so while allowing a bit of water to slosh around below it to help keep your feet dry. The scupper balls are one-way fittings that go into the scuppers to allow water to drain from the cockpit but not back in.
Andre
Check this thread for more on the ball scuppers.
https://cpyoa.com/forum/index.php?topic=11784.0
Here's photos of the cockpit grate that Com-Pac sells as a $995 option, shown on hull #282 before delivery. That gives about you about 1 1/2" above the cockpit sole, to help keep your feet dry. Easy to make yourself, there's just longitudinal cleats under the athwartship boards you see. Teak is pricey, I'm sure you could do it for less in wood or plastic.
I didnt think the boat gets that wet?
I'm surprised PC's get that wet. I have a cockpit grate in my SC, but the only water that ever comes in comes over the coaming. :o
No, as I've described, the water backs up the drains routinely. If the boat is on its lines, as it will probably be on a mooring or slip unless you've got a lot of extra weight somewhere, it will be fine. An oversized motor on the transom will upset the trim. But, step on the boat and head aft, and the drains will likely submerge. It's a design flaw, but easily dealt with. I still like the boat.
The problem is the boat only displaces 500 lb., so is very sensitive to live ballast. Having the cockpit sole higher, with more slope in the drain, would solve the issue. Or, embrace the cockpit live well and foot wash. ;)
from the pic of the board lanyard you sent it appears that you just drilled a hole in the board and put a stainless bolt and washer through it or the lanyard to attache to?
I used a small bow shackle. Gives you something to attach to the board and tie on to. I got one from West Marine with a 5/32" pin, part #5253539. The pin is tight, and won't vibrate lose, so I didn't bother mousing it (seizing the pin with wire to prevent it from unscrewing).
Chafe won't really be a problem unless it's under load, i.e. pulling out the CB, so lots of ways to do it. There is a slight chance of something catching on the shackle and lanyard as it streams through the water, and I'm sure it generates a little turbulence. You could tie a line directly to the board to mitigate that even further. No need to tie a loop or stopper knot on the end until you're sure you need it to get a grip. You're just looking for some way to grab the the board as you splash about. I hope to never use it!
Bruce,
Do all picnic cats have an anode on the centerboard, or did you add your later.
I keep mine in the trailer, or at best 1 week in brackish salt water. I never thought about it before.
( and don't want to climb under if I don't have too.)
Thanks,
Brian
Roger,
Just a quick note, Barnegate bay is relatively shallow. The chance of going turtle is low. You mast will get stuck in our famous mud before you go full over.
I have gone turtle before when I was a kid on a snark wildflower, and luckily a retired couple came up in their cat boat, threw us a line, and with their motor theey gave us a quick pull, to break the suction.
On Barnegate bay, help is usually close. I fear hypothermia more than turtle-ing.
Bruce really knows his stuff, but I did not add the lanyard to my centerboard. I am not sure I could even pull up the board weight while standing on an upside down wet hull.
I do wear life jacket when sailing alone. I have a good waterproof marine hand radio, and waterproof case foe cell phone, and 6 optimist floatations bags. Sea tow (aka "sea vultures") are a common sight.
Also, I have learned not to drill holes in a boat if it can be avoided.
Hope to see you out on the bay. I am trailer launching my picnic cat next weekend. Spent this beautiful weekend getting boat, and myself ready.
Again, Bruce really knows his stuff, and I have been very pleased with his help over the years.
Regards,
Brian
Hey Brian, no, not all PCs have zincs on the CB. Mine came with them in 2011, but I didn't request them. I would have thought your boat, built later, and known to be going to NYC, would also have been so equipped. I don't need them, I dry sail!
Roger, Brian is an experienced sailor, also owns a CP 19, and sails your waters. I would encourage you to meet up with as many Barnegate Bay sailors as you can, before you plan too many mods. Local knowledge is invaluable!
Also, I'm guessing at this point, that your Boston Whaler experience is on powerboats and not a Harpoon, Supercat, or Squall. That's great! The better we know your background, the better we can field your questions!
I did have a Boston Whaler Harpoon 5.2, for 2 seasons. She was fast, and very tender, but was too worn out, and hard to maintain/repair.
I guess "race horse" may be best that I can say.
I haven't sailed one, but that's what I figured.
There's a chance they'll open the state ramps around here this week. What that will look like as far as traffic is anyone's guess, probably crazy for a while.
Thanks to both of you.Most helpful indeed.
Yes my BW experience has been on powerboats. So its mainly the weather watching in the area that I am familiar with. Years ago I did sail a hobie 16 and later a 17ft Slipper. Fall and Spring the sailing will be in Pittsburgh on Lake Arthur
One more thing. I am picking the boat up in Fort Worth this week. How sturdy is that boat top cover that goes over the boom?
Should I remove it when highway traveling or will it shred?
We trailer a lot, but only a few miles to the ramp. ;D
Lots of folks here have logged serious miles and I'm sure will chime in about how to prepare for a long trip like this, the trailer and the boat.
Com-Pac ships the boat with the sail rigged, and sail cover in place. They wrap the whole bundle tight with stretch wrap. Any loose fabric or line will flog away smartly, as you expect. The boat cover should definitely be stowed in a locker, IMHO.
I towed my new Sunday Cat from Lake Lanier, GA down to Eustis, FL. The sail, rigging, and sail cover were all wrapped in stretch wrap reinforced with duct tape in some places where it touched hard rigging. Both are available at big box lumber stores or maybe Ace hardware. All survived with no damage! Good luck and congratulations!
//Bob
Roger,
The boat cover should be stowed while trailering. It is not aerodynamic, and too expensive to risk.
Make sure mainsail cover on, and wrapped tight. I use elastic sail ties with the balls in the end, and also a few short old lines.
Make sure you put up the mast and take her down again. This will let you see that lines and stays are clear. These should all remain attached for the trailering, except the forestay. Always make sure all is free before raising the mast. So if previous owner is willing, probably good to have him raise the mast. My side stays always need to have the turnbuckle pre-positioned, otherwise they will jam when you raise the mast, and you end up an inch or two too short to pin the mast.
On long hauls, I try to stop once an hour to check that the boat is OK, and to feel the temperature of the wheel bearings.
Always make sure the boom and gaff are below the mast hinge, before lowering the mast. Many of us forgot and you can easily damage the sail slug track. It happens so often, Hutchins can supply a plate for the repair, if needed.
Roger,
Given the discussion so far, I'd be most concerned that the trailer was up to the trip. You'll likely be focused in issues with the boat, but the trailer can leave you on the side of the road.
Unless I felt confident that I could evaluate the trailer's condition, I would want independent confirmation before I headed out for a long haul. A few minutes at a trailer shop could be invaluable. Certainly I'd check the wheel temps frequently, as Brian suggests, I'd use a hands-free IR thermometer, but what if they are elevated, what do you do then? I'd check before I started out, even if it meant an extra night.
BoatUS has trailer insurance that might be worth considering. Like AAA, it will take them a while to get there, but they have the network to help you out no matter where you are. Lots on boats make long trips without issue, but we've all seen some poor guy in the breakdown lane and thought, "man, am I glad that's not me."
Good luck! I sent you a PM, check My Messages.
Bruce,
Great point. When I bought my CP-19, the trailer looked ok, form what I could see with the boat on top. Wheels good, axles ok. After moving boat 30 miles and having it lifted, I was shocked at how rusted the frame was. My next stop twitch trailer was the junkyard. I never did get another trailer for the 19, which explains why I have a PC now. The ultimate easy tow and launch sailboat...
I can attest to the value in checking the trailer thoroughly. When I bought my boat I had a long drive home. We Checked the tires, and greased the bearings even stopped to check for heat a few times. Everything was great. Unfortunately, I never even thought to look at the u-bolts that hold the axle to the springs. About 4 hours into a 10 hour drive, One of em broke. and the axle shifted.Tire rubbing on the frame, smoke pouring out like I was James Bond. I hadn't arranged for boat-US or alternatives. I did have AAA but they wouldn't help with a trialer. My Boat US membership had expired and renewing it at that time wouldn't help as it was a pre-existing condition. It was Memorial day weekend so it cost me two nights in a hotel and $500 on a 6 mile tow, on top of the repair bill. Fortunately, a repair place was near by.
I later learned that my primary auto insurance carrier would have covered the tow (when trailer is attached to my truck they consider it part of the vehicle) had I elected their roadside service for $5 a month prior to the trip. That's what I run with now, but in retrospect I should have checked the u-bolts and I should have signed up for some roadside service before the trip. Either with my carrier or boat-us.. once you have an issue it's too late and could be costly. I'm thankful nobody was harmed and the axle and boat stayed on the trailer. I also wish you all the best with your new boat and your travels.
Roger & Finbar Beagle --
I'm a new Sun Cat owner in the Philadelphia area, not too far from Barnegat Bay. I plan to keep the Cat (have to rename her but am still casting about for the ideal name) at a slip on the Delaware, close to home so that can get out as often as possible. I'm new to sailing with only limited experience, all on J-27's out of Philadelphia, so need some time to build up my cat boat skills.
Once I build up my sailing skills a bit though, I'd love to trailer her to the shore. Barnegat Bay would be a welcome change from sailing on the Delaware where I need to be concerned not only with the tide, but also with tricky winds due to the buildings & bridges, commercial shipping & ferry traffic, dozens of jet skiers and an incredible amount of flotsam.
Would love to meet up at some point - perhaps we could shot for something late summer.
sounds like a plan. I named mine Second Wind
Chase and Roger,
Would like a plan to meet up on the Barnegat.
When you rename your boat, remember to pay homage to Neptune. He needs to recognize the boat under a new name.
When I renamed Cork Cat, we had many offerings of rum to the powers that be, and several to ourselves. I definitely worked as Cork Cat has not let us down.
For experienced sailors, and others, I can highly recommend Bill Welch's book.
https://www.amazon.com/Competitive-Racing-Small-Gaff-Rigged-Catboats/dp/1419683829
There are some racing tips, mostly it's about sailing a catboat well.
Quote from: Finbar Beagle on May 25, 2020, 06:13:53 PM
Chase and Roger,
Would like a plan to meet up on the Barnegat.
When you rename your boat, remember to pay homage to Neptune. He needs to recognize the boat under a new name.
When I renamed Cork Cat, we had many offerings of rum to the powers that be, and several to ourselves. I definitely worked as Cork Cat has not let us down.
Re: Barnegat meet up. In year's past, I would have suggested using my brother-in-law's place in Brick Twp, though it's technically on the Metedaconk. Alas, Hurricane Sandy has removed that option: No house there anymore and no dock left to speak of. I'd be trailering from the Philly area, so more southerly would be easier. I think I saw that Surf City was home port for one of you, and if that's the case, maybe something around Egg Harbor would be good. Will have to be later in the summer as I need time on the water in the Sun Cat beforehand.
As to names, my favorite fictional hero is Captain John Yossarian, and I was leaning toward naming her "Cat-22." That moniker is presently under review by the Admiral.
I will handle things with Neptune/Poseidon, and as a homebrewer, plan to use my latest creation - a farmhouse ale of my own recipe that I'm calling a saison marron - in the the renaming ceremony. While I can't promise that samples from that particular batch will still be available in July or August, I can guarantee that some manner of homebrew will be provided during a Barnegat meet-up . . .
I think the cockpit grate is just a little bit over kill. The boat is fairly dry and the grates would add a bit of weight to the boat. I bought my PC used and if it did come with the grates I would probably remove them. I just carry a good bucket and a gallon water jug with the bottom cut off. Haven't had to use either yet. Keep dry! C.B.
Quote from: Renae on May 02, 2020, 06:34:29 PM
I'm surprised PC's get that wet. I have a cockpit grate in my SC, but the only water that ever comes in comes over the coaming. :o
In our SC we get cockpit water backing in during bigger weather and serious heel. Of course, then we are on the high side so rarely get our feet wet (except as we come about...). Oh, and that time we WAY overloaded with 6 aboard, several of whom I will charitably suggest were carrying above their optimal weight. We had a good 3 or 4 inches of water in the cockpit that would not drain no matter what. Lesson learned.
I love the cockpit grate, and also have it on my CP-19. I guess it is the traditional look/feel of the wood, and how it gives a clean appearance. Price was the biggest drawback.
Traction is much better than the wet fiberglass.
I really did not notice the weight, but I have not added any weight that is not functional, like a spare torqeedo battery in bow storage and anchor/rode, and cooler.