Does anyone know what is involved in removing the handrails on a Com-Pac 23? They appear to be thru bolted through the cabin top and there are a series of nuts on the headliner under the handrails. I would think that removing the nuts would allow for easy removal and simple replacement of the handrail.
I'm thinking of doing this instead of sanding and finishing in place.
Before I did this I thought some input from other Com-pac owners might help me.
Has anyone done this? Thoughts?
Thanks for the help,
Roger
I wanted to remove the handrails on my CP19, but when I tried to remove the nuts on the cabin overhead the whole nut/bolt assembly turned. I think you have to drill out the plugs on the top of the rail to get the bolts out in order to remove the rails. If you you don't have any leaks and the rails are in decent shape I suggest you leave well enough alone and finish them in place. You can masking tape off the deck under the rails and do your whole teak restoration of choice from there. My rails are finished with Starbrite Teak finish. I redid them today with a small foam brush along with all the other topside teak in about an hour without the tape. I keep a rag dampened in mineral spirits and a small putty knife to whisk away mistakes. Working on sailboats is almost as much fun as sailing them. Steve
Steve,
Thank you very much for the reply. I can see how what you describe could happen.
My handrails are not leaking and other than needing sanding and refinishing they are in fine shape. I've had enough experience in my life with trying something that I thought would be simple and having it turn into a major project. Sometimes leaving well enough alone is the best advice.
I will finish them in place.
This is what I appreciate about this kind of forum.
Roger
Roger:
One of the first projects I tackled when I bought my 1985 23/2 was the removal and refinishing off all the exterior teak. I had no problem removing all of it with the exception of the cabintop trim over the portlights. I sanded everything, applied 7 coats of Flagship varnish, and reinstalled using a bedding compound. A lot of work, but beautiful. Removing the teak allows you to also seal the bottoms of the wood, thus eliminating bare wood where moisture would love to enter.
Have fun! Bob
Just curious, how did you refinish that trim? Everything else looks easy to remove. Did you remove it or refinish in place? If you removed it, how did you do it?
LConrad:
For the cabintop trim, I had to use the caveman method of sanding in place and, again, applying multiple coats of Flagship Varnish. I masked off the area around the trim with blue painters tape, 2 layers to prevent drippage but also to prevent touching the gelcoat with the sandpaper. A sanding block worked well.
I took a lot of patience and I'll apply 2 more coats next week before launching. I try to have her perfect at launch time so I don't have to work on the boat once she's wet, just sail!!!
Bob
Handrails on my C-P 19, from the factory...are
1-drilled and a screw thread [machine thread on the other end, the end inside the cabin top and held tight to the cabin top with a washer and acorn nut] inserted into each surface of the handrail that touches the outside of the cabin top. Where the anti skid is not.
2-Drilled holes with enough clearance allow the screws in the handrail to 'show' inside the boat.
3-HEAR Here! Not only are the handrails bolted to the cabin top they are also gooped down with 3-M 5200 sealer.
So...with a heat gun and a rubber mallet tap and beat and right/left beat on the hand rail till it pops loose. One can also just re-start the acorn nuts and tap on them till the handrail pops up then remove the acorn nut and finish pulling off the handrails. skip.
It's going to take some doing.
Skip,
Thanks for the detailed i info on how the hand rails are attached. The fact that they are "gooped on with 3-M 5200 sealer" is one of those tidbits that you don't want to discover the hard way. After hearing that it sound far easier to sand in place and refinish. By the time I go through all the work of removal I'll have them done. I guess it's like the Geico commercial. "So easy a caveman could do it">
Have a great season of sailing... the best is yet to come!
Roger
I removed, stripped, sanded and rebedded everything but the eyebrow trim this past weekend. My 1992 had very little sealant and it was not 5200. Everything came off easily. I was afraid I would have to go through the teak plugs on the handrails to hold the bolts but did not as they all help tight.
Ramble On
Same here for the sealant on my 1985. The handrails, and all trim with the exception of the narrow peices above the portlights came off easily. After refinishing them, I rebedded them in bedding compound (Interlux, but I prefer Dolfinite) so the next time they'll be even easier to remove (next time? Yikes!!)
Anyone read the book "Brightwork" By Rebecca Wittman? Great book, easy read and has some indespensable advice for finishing brightwork. I basically followed her procedure for finishing teak and am quite happy with the results.
Bob
Bob,
What did she recommend for rebedding hand rails?
I was under the impression that 5200 was for items you never wanted to move again. Am I wrong?
Paul
Paul:
I believe you are correct. I don't remember if she addressed rebedding but I use bedding compound from Interlux. Comes in a can. Sort of resembles plumbers putty. I used it exclusively where the fitting or wood might have to be removed again. I have removed a few fittings that were bedded down for a year with no problems. This stuff never hardens. It is not an adhesive or caulk so it needs a mechanical fastener to do the holding-dowm. The compound just seals the joint. They say that 4200 is removable. I haven't tried it.
Bob
I just refinished the handrails on a 2000 CP/23. Whatever ComPac used, the hand rails came off without too much trouble. I'll try GE clear marine silicone putting them back. That has worked pretty well on previous projects. It sticks but not too much that it can not be removed later.
Bob, Congratulations on your patience for the trim. Any chance you would like to do another boat?
I'd love to. Send it on over with a blank check! Honestly, now that it's done, it looks great. But it certainly was a lot of work. I guess I can't help it...I'm a woodworker and just felt that the teak on the 23 should be bright. Guess I've been to too many Woodenboat Shows!
Last year at a small boat show here in NJ, I saw a new 23 that was being delivered to it's owner. I was surprised to see no finish on the teak, plus it didn't have the dark, rich look that mine had. Maybe if one buys a new boat, it can be requested unfinished. Maybe that's just how Hutchins does it.
Mine had Starbright teak finish on it when I bought it and it looked terrible. Looked like they applied over grey and weathered teak. For me, there was no choice but to start from scratch.
Have fun...it's worth it!
Bob
Since you are a woodworker, some of the teak veneer came off the plywood hatch cover. The previous owner covered it with StarBrite.
I ran it through the planer to remove the veneer along with part of the next deeper ply. I resawed new teak veneer, laminated it to the original plywood, back through the planer and finished with Flagship varnish. It is beautiful now. Hopefully the glue and varnish will hold up. I really like the Flagship varnish.
Wow, LC. Sounds like a lot of work that will be worth it. I didn't have any conditions quite that serious. I also like the Flagship- suppose to have a high UV resistance. Of course, anything clear lets the sun through so we'll see. It seems to be quite hard once it's cured. I did a test on my both my framing and trim hammers (wood handles) and they've held up well.
The Starbrite on my boat resembled brown paint. Why anyone would use it is beyond me. How did you treat your interior teak? Mine initially got a mild bleach washdown followed by fresh water rinse. ( I had a lot of mold to deal with) After that, it's teak oil through and through. Each season, I go over all of it with a light teak oil wipe down and it looks great.
I did, however, make provision for constant air-flow by installing a Nicro solar powered vent on the cabintop hatch. Seems to do the trick, plus I air the boat out when I can. She likes to breath!
Bob
According to ComPac, the trim along the side is screwed in with wood screws and then plugged. If somebody wanted to remove it, you should be able to remove the plugs and unscrew it. No need to worry about interior nuts like the handrails. I may take a shot at making new instead of refinishing.
LC:
That may be true according to Compac but mine had some kind of reddish-brownsih adhesive under it that would not budge. I presumed that it was applied that way at the factory as there was no evidence that any of the other teak had previously been removed.
I wanted to remove it but made a mess of the portside one so bad that I left the starboard one on. When I did finally get the portside off, it was in many pieces. I made a new one, varnished it and installed it this winter past.
Fair winds, my friends, Bob in "Koinonia".
Where do you get teak veneer?
Try doing a Google search under "teak veneer" and you will find much info. Believe it or not even amazon.com has teak veneer available.
Good luck.
Roger
Bob:
Kind of sounds like the reddish material tenaciously holding the teak could have been epoxy. West System has a blending agent (407), read fillet glue, that bonds hardware. A previous owner could have possibly used that to attach and seal the rail. Personally, I don't recommend it for the very reason you explain in your post. However, if it were epoxy (there may be more on your vessel if the PO used it on the hand rails), heating it first will weaken the bond and make removal a little easier.
Just my $0.02
I was the first to put Comfort and Joy in the water as she was laid-up for a few years while the first purchaser recovered from the death of his wife. From the factory my boat came with no finish on the teak.
I washed and brightened the wood and Cetaled it, kind of orange. But I like it.
All the wood down below deck is hand rubbed with several coats of Minwax Floor wax...But I like it too.
Soon after I bought my boat the first owner purchased a Sun Cat. All is well. skip.
Skip,
The "redish stuff" must have come from the factory, It was under the handrails of my 27 as well. It was also under all the other topside wood that I have removed. Almost like a 5200.
Jim
Paul:
Thanks for the feedback. Whatever that reddish stuff was, it didn't want to budge. Must have been added by a PO. It was only under the custom winch pads that are on my boat. I haven't seen these on any other 23. The good part is that they were done well and provide a mounting surface for both the bronze cleats as well as the Andersen winches that some previously-more-wealthy-than-I onwer installed in place of the bronze winches that were original equiptment.
I consider myself quite forturnate not only to own a 23 but also to own on that PO's actually made improvements instead of "improvements". Most of the work was done well and she's been well cared for in her past. I'm just carrying the torch till the next owner comes along, which won't be too soon, if I can help it.
Bob in "Koinonia" out!!!!!!!!!!!!
That's good fortune that the PO made quality improvements. If some folks have "sealant" from the the factory, then it may be teak colored 5200. I don't know when 3M started making it in colors, but colors are optional in current catalogs.
I suppose if the bonding material is hard, it's epoxy; if it's soft, it's colored 5200.
My theory is that the "reddish brown" stuff is teak colored "Life-Calk". I've been using it on our boat for years now, and it behaves (and looks exactly) like the original sealant under the handrails etcetera. It has a less tenacious grip than 3M 5200. The maker of Life-Calk sells a solvent and cleaner for it.
Ernie
Cool. Do you think it's any easier to work with than 5200?
Paul
Yup, it is very weak when compared to 5200, at least for handrails. The eyebrows were probably attached to the boat with Life-Calk also, but they do not budge. I didn't think to try the solvent on them.
Ernie
Once again, this site is great.
I took off the acorn nuts, got a block of wood and hammered not so lightly. Didn't budge. So I searched the site for "handrails" and this thread came to the top of the search.
So I got the heat gun and sure enough warmed up the handrail joint and with a few firm hits with the wood block and 4 lb hammer and each one popped out. Thanks to Skip and others for the advice. This thread was still as useful as ever 6 years later.
The handrails are now scraped and one is sanded (36, 60, 150, 220) and teak oil applied. Last year I made a new solid teak hatch board set and refinished most of the exterior teak with just teak oil. Looks great either grayed or after applying oil again. This year I'm doing the handrails. I sanded the eyebrows in place but next year I may make new ones.
For the better part of 10 years I used cetol. Now only the bowsprit has cetol on it. The rest is oiled.
Curtis
The hatch boards came out nice. Here is last years photo of the hatch boards.
(http://localweb.orleans.occnc.com/photos/2012/20120708-hatchboards/photo01.jpg)
I have photos of the work done last year and now the handrails if anyone is interested.