Ok so here it goes....
I'm trying to refit rather than restore. Budgetary constraints and a rather impatient streak I have won't allow anything else. I love my boat. It's a '78 Hull. Still has factory paint inside and the factory companionway board. I've sailed it two seasons and decided I really like the boat and want to keep it.
I'm trying to decide how to pursue a few nuisances with the boat.
First: keel. Mine is fine, it has loose/lost cement but the keel is in tact. No holes no leaks. The middle area between the quarter berths right now is not really user friendly. It has rough and crumbly cement. My tabbing has cracked and there is water in there sometimes. I think I have found the water coming in from a notch cut in the aft hatch in the cockpit I assume to let a fuel line or cable out under the cover. When it rains it runs in there. I'm going to patch the glass there. As far as the cement and keel. I've seen a lot of posts. Question is: what is the consensus on the best material to put over the cement and level out that bottom? Also, when original, did the cement fill the whole area between the "stringers" running fore and aft? Or was it just in the keel area with Hull showing around it?
Second electric. I would like my battery anchor and Rhode all up front. But I need power in the back. I was thinking of running wire on top of some wood ribs along the inside but up top, close to the flange area. Is there a better way? How do I attach wood to the inside of the Hull?
Third, I'm looking for a light 2.5-3hp outboard. Integral tank, the manual says short shaft. I have the mount that moves up and down. My question is: all the short shaft motors in that hp range seem to be tiller steer. I'm fine with that but... It looks like when I put the short shaft on the mount and push the mount down the tiller is going to be pretty close to the transom... Does this work?
And third... Thank you for all the help you have already been. I've read allot already.
s
Water after rain
Center
Cement
I'm very interested in the answers that you get to your questions as I am working through a couple of the same issues with my '78 vintage 16 at this time also.
I removed the covering over my keel as one of the first things I did after bringing the boat home - going on three months ago now and still working on it. What I found was a single layer of fiberglass/resin tabbed on each side to the risers for the bunks and to the mast step forward. The material below that I think is some sort of concrete grout likely put in to level the top of the pour when the keel was filled (guessing here.) On mine the grout material was broken in numerous places and was wet. I could remove handfuls without tools or problems. So I removed all the loose stuff with a shop vac and a dust pan. The grout was only about 3/4 inch deep and the material below it seems solid. I ran a fan on it for a couple of weeks before the dewpoint got so high and the surface is dry to touch. As to the best material to cover it. I don't know what I'm going to do yet. Epoxy poured over it will seal it, but I want to be sure I've got all the water out that I can, so I think in the short run, I'm going to just make a covering of several 1 x 2s cut to length and laid in with a couple of cross pieces to hold them in place.
I can't comment on electrical or lighting as I haven't gotten that far. Mine will need to be redone, but It's further down the list.
As for the motor, I bought a Suzuki 2.5 long shaft. I have yet to mount it, but have figured out that in order for it to be able to tilt when It is raised, I need to mount a block between the transom and the base of the motor mount and increase the length of the mounting plate on the mount so that the motor attachment screws are at the height of the top of the transom with the mount up. Maybe a good used minkota with about 55 lbs thrust isn't a bad way to go?
I use a 55 pound now. It pushes it around the ramp and gets you around when there's no wind. It's ok. I'm looking to get a gas job for a more robust power plant. I think a 55 thrust is about 1hp ish someone feel free to correct me. I really don't care to motor much but when you need it you need it.
Good to know about the trolling motor. I've seen several posts where folks are satisfied with the amount of power but suspect I'd want more as well. To amplify my post above, the block mounted between the transom and the base of the motor mount is to allow room for the tiller on the outboard to extend to it's normal position and still be able to swing through 180 degrees. On mine, the block thickness is 1 1/2" and I cut it out of a 2 thicknesses of a piece of 1 by oak I got at lowes. I'll epoxy it and maybe put on a layer of fiberglass before bedding and bolting it to the transom.
That makes sense. I was afraid it wouldn't really have enough room. I'm surprised the manual says it's designed for a standard shaft motor because of the space issue.
s
Make sure you know where the water is coming from. I picked up a '76 c-16 this spring. I had water inside after the first sail, & discovered that there were cracks in the keel fiberglass. I had to have the keel re-glassed.
I'm in the process of running wiring. In the electrical section of building supply stores like Lowes or Home Depot there are small adhesive backed squares that accept wire ties.
https://www.lowes.com/pd/Utilitech-10-Pack-1-in-Nylon-Cable-Ties/50005764
These work well for a while but the adhesive weakens over time. Because of this I use epoxy to attach them to the hull.
mike
Cool,
I've used the blocks before on other projects but epoxying to the Hull is exactly the clue I was looking for. I might try to integrate some woodwork and wiring that way.
Water is an issue I have my boat on the trailer in my driveway. When it rains I have water inside. Not tons, but maybe a half gallon all together. I can't figure out where it's coming from. I think I'll have to try the hose trick. No water comes in when I'm sailing, but everytime it rains.
s
the usual suspects are: hatch/hatchboards, hawse pipe, foredeck vent or hatch, & lazerette hatch (on older boats). Where do you find the water?
mike
It's always down along my cement, and in the little front storage area behind the compression post. A little on the quarter berth decks along the downhill edge where it meets the Hull. I'm wondering if it's the deck seam?
s
That does sound likely. It would be easy to check out with a water hose. If that's it, you'd pull the rub rail & assess the nature/extent of the leak. It could be as simple as re-caulking the seams.
Keep us posted. If it happens to your boat, it's likely gonna happen to someone else's.
mike
"If it happens to your boat, it's likely gonna happen to someone else's. " Amen to that Mike. An education in small boat repair. Ain't it great!
Well Saturday is here.... Going to try and get an answer. It's supposed to storm this afternoon, so if I have time earlier I'll use the hose... If not I'll sit out the rain inside...
s
or you could just spread some newspaper around to see what gets wet.
mike
I use cheap paper towels but I suppose it's about the same thing. I'd tape a a section along the bulkhead below the hull/deck joint and them lay more out along the sole. Since water is collecting foward of the compression post, look also at where your mast foot is mounted if it is through bolted. It shouldn't be but that doesn't mean it isn't.,
Ok so.... It's for sure the Deck to Hull joint. It has already been band-aid fixed before me. Someone cut down the length of the rub rail squeezed a bunch of what looks like white silicone caulk in and glued it up. You can see gaps in the joint under that spot and others. So....
I'm actually really excited because I was putting off a full split where I totally refit the interior, did my ballast and keel to my liking, add my lights, add a real pumping bilge (for the water that will eventually get in again) do some minor fiber glass repairs, add interior lights and storage, anchor locker, re bed deck fixtures, reinforce cockpit sole, make cockpit grate, and totally replace berth wood and stringers.
Now I HAVE to do it... Right? I actually have the admiral convinced and she hasn't vetoed the design brief to this point so... Here we go!
First things first...I need to brain storm ideas. Any input is welcome. I really want this boat to be a center piece for our family going forward. I have a three year old boy, a 1 year old girl, and one on the way! (Not sure which) anyway, my boy wants to anchor out and sleep in the boat, and really wants to learn to sail. I'm going to do some shore camping and small weekend trips with the kids... And maybe even one it two without! I'll be sailing in Chautauqua Lake, and lake Erie. I'm tossing around the idea of using material that is rot proof for the interior stringers and the berth. Like Corian. Use my old wood pieces as patterns. LED lights, I'm so excited. I'm losing my mind.
s
There are several threads, some with pictures, regarding the split.
I'm not sure what year the construction changed, but a lot of boats from the '70's are wood cored (as is mine, a 1976). This is a particular problem with the cabin roof. The split is often used to re-work this problem area.
Be sure to to do as perfect a job as possible. That will help with the re-sale. With a growing family I see a bigger boat in your future.
mike
I had no idea that any of the 16s had wood core! What is the problem with the cabin roof?
I agree, we've thought about a bigger boat but we like not paying free over winter....I can pay to keep a little boat in great shape with good sails.... Maybe we'll just have 2 16s once the kids know how to sail. Then we could race! There is a 16 near here for sale $1000 takes the Cake.
I'm worried with a bigger boat I will have a problem that could be so expensive I wouldn't be able to afford to repair it. Maybe after I go through this little boat I'll have more confidence to do my own work.
s
For what it's worth, the core in my '78 is green foam. I've found it in the cockpit sole and also on the foredeck. I haven't had occasion to drill into the cabin top yet, but won't be surprised to find it there also.
Green foam sounds better than wet wood.
ike
Interesting. Inside my cabin, there is foam like material overhead under the fore deck that looks like it has "cracked" from deck flex. Is that what we're taking about? Almost looks like great stuff or something that was put inside. Flex caused cracks.
s
To be clear, the under side of the Deck looks like they put fiberglas foam or something on the inside to add thickness or something. It has cracked from weight flexing the Deck enough to make it split below. This has occurred in the cockpit sole area too.
check with geeman on that one.
mike
The structure on mine is basically a foam sandwich. When they layed it up, they put gelcoat, then a layer of fiberglass cloth/resin, then a sheet of green foam (looks like the stuff you'd get at the dollar store to do school exibits with), then a layer of cloth /resin. From inside the cabin, it looks like painted over coarse weave cloth. A photo if you've got one would help, but what you describe does sound like the structure might be broken in a place or two.
Pictures
More
Also, I saw a post earlier about a companionway hatch board that reversed and had a shelf with cupholders in it. There was a picture. I can't find it again I've been all though the DIY posts. And there was another post where someone had made very smart "cubbies" on the bulkheads just inside the companionway hatch. I want to ruthlessly steal these ideas for myself, and I can't find them now.
s
And also for posterity
The photos of the overhead in the cabin do look like cracks to me. If you stand on the deck, can you feel it flex under your feet? It shouldn't have much (if any) give.
Yes a little. Not tons. I'm hefty too so that doesn't help. But the one that bothers me is right along the bottom corner of the cockpit sole facing the quarter berth. That one is going to be trouble sometime. Can I fix them?
s
Yep. That's the cool thing about fiberglass. There are a lot of youtubes that deal with making repairs but in short, you grind a bevel, lay in layers of cloth and resin and then finish with thickened resin. Epoxy resin is the way to go. Not really sure from your description exactly where the crack is that your describing, but it can be fixed.
The cracks in those pictures seem non structural to me that's why I included the one with the glare on the cockpit ceiling looking out of the companionway. The irregular shape is the"foamy" stuff the cracks are in on the inside. The Hull sides don't have this layer, and you can plainly see the fiberglas fabric pattern there. But on the bottom of the decks there is this other layer. Yours has the same fabric pattern on the cabin ceiling geeman?
s
Yeah. The overhead is smoother, but still looks textured. If you look up at the underside of the footwell it is more like unfinished fiberglass with just a coat of paint on it - mine is grey, but I have no idea if that is original.
Interesting. The Deck doesn't really feel bouncy or damaged on mine. Almost no give, those cracks in the picture are in a layer of something I think someone must have added. It's not hard, like the glass on the Hull sides. Interesting stuff.
s