There has been much discussion of biminis. Kurt, I think you recommended for a CP 23 a 72" long, 73"-78" wide and 46" high bimini made with 7/8" diameter aluminum and sunbrella from Overton's. Questions: 1) if one was purchasing a custom made bimini what precise measurements should one use so that the bimini does not interfer with the boom or mainsheet and allows access to the bow? 2) is stainless steel worth the extra cost? 3) presumably the bimini slides fore and aft on a track, and if so can you use the jib/genoa track? 4) if you have to install a separate track, what size and length do you use? 5) since the tracks will no doubt not be precisely parallel, is there enough flex in a stainless steel bimini for a change in width? 6) Is the geno track long enough to permit the bimini when not in use to rest either on the companionway hatch or the stern pulpit? 7) How restrictive is the bimini to view of the sails, boat traffic, etc. I think Curtis Villamizar stopped using his bimini from Hutchins after a while because it was too cumbersome. 8) are there better alternatives for sun shade? Thanks, Jay.
Jay - those dimensions sound right, I don't recall exactly but could measure this week if you'd like.
Quote from: jaguaretypeQuestions: 1) if one was purchasing a custom made bimini what precise measurements should one use so that the bimini does not interfer with the boom or mainsheet and allows access to the bow? 2) is stainless steel worth the extra cost? 3) presumably the bimini slides fore and aft on a track, and if so can you use the jib/genoa track? 4) if you have to install a separate track, what size and length do you use? 5) since the tracks will no doubt not be precisely parallel, is there enough flex in a stainless steel bimini for a change in width? 6) Is the geno track long enough to permit the bimini when not in use to rest either on the companionway hatch or the stern pulpit? 7) How restrictive is the bimini to view of the sails, boat traffic, etc. I think Curtis Villamizar stopped using his bimini from Hutchins after a while because it was too cumbersome. 8) are there better alternatives for sun shade?
1) Assuming those are the same dimensions as mine, that is about as large as you could go, except maybe in length (another foot or two would also cover the companionway opening, but make cockpit egress/ingress a lot tougher). I can sail with the bimini up (and do, often), and only rarely does the mainsheet wrap a corner of the bimini. I think that the size is good, as large as possible without being overlarge. I have made a simply fabric "thingy" that I use to bridge the space between bimini front edge and forward limit of companionway opening. I'll post some pics and dimensions soon on that project. It's an easy, very useable piece of gear.
2) If I could do it again, I think I would go with stainless. At the time, cost was a consideration because I was buying *lots* of boat stuff. :)
3) I guess you could use the genoa track, but I have a dedicated track for the bimini that is 36" or 48" long, mounted inside the genny track. The genny track also is not parallel, this would limit the range of motion fore-and-aft, as well as interfere with the sheets if the bimini is in use under sail.
4) See above. :)
5) I think there would be enough flex to handle minor variations.
6) On the track I installed, I can put the bimini forward onto the companionway, aft onto the pulpit. or aft under the lifelines right on top of the cockpit coaming. Also, I can lash it up to the boom.
7) A window to observe the main would be nice. As mine sits, I have to scoot back to peer over the bimnin from behind to see the main when sailing. I generally sit on the windward side of the boat, or else I could just check from the side.
8) There are other, and there are cheaper, sunshades, but none that I know of which you could use while under sail. I love the bimini, it's one of the better things I purchased to use when boating or anchored.[/list:u]
We have the Stainless tubing on ARWEN and think that it goes a long way. Especially since it is less prone to bending (sometimes we're not as graceful as we'd like under sail.
My wife and I sail with the Bimini stowed folded forward in front of the companionway. I can sail with it in that position with the hatch completely open and unobstructed. We're fairly novice and still getting to know our boat, so any obstruction to view is unsettling
It has its own track that allows it to slide back to the end of the main, or forward to cover the open companionway (handy for keeping out the rain and retaining ventilation). Whole set up was easily installed and does not
get in the way. SS looks nice with whole package, but does come at a price $$.
We can't stow at the end of stern due to presence of stern rail seats. They look nice, but tend to clutter full range of motion with outboard and rudder.
I'll try taking some pics this weekend while I'm out to give you some idea
of how it works.
Thanks Bob, the pictures will help. I've gotten alot of different responses. Some 23 owners prefer aluminum to SS because the lower weight makes moving the bimini easier. Some have placed the slide track further aft and on the rub rail so that the bimini doesn't interfer with the winches and will store over the stern rail. They attach the mainsheet to the boom with a snap block so they can easily unhook the mainsheet from the boom to store the bimini. The original size of the "Hutchins" optional bimini was apparently 60" long x 78" wide x 39" high. Many have used Westland Industries biminis sized at 72" long x 73" - 78" wide x 40" - 46" high. Most people seem to use a 24" slide track. I use a boom vang when sailing and the bimini needs to fit comfortably between the vang and the main sheet. I'd also like to avoid interference with the jib/genoa winches. Finally, I need reasonable access to the foredeck when sailing. Any advice you can give on the preferable size, location and installatiion of the bimini would be much appreciated. Jay.
I have a Com-Pac 23/3 (1985) and am considering purchasing the Hutchins bimini, but I'm trying to do a little research first to find out if I should do that. I live in South Carolina (Lake Murray) and it gets really hot here in the summer. Here are my questions:
1. Is it easy to install?
2. Can I sail with the bimini open?
3 Is it really cumbersome to use and will it get in my way when Im sailing (ie is it worth the any aggravation it might cause).
4. Are there any better alternatives, ie other brands that work better and where can I find these brands? Thanks. Fred.
Hi Fred -
Epiphany doesn't have the Hutchins brand bimini, so consider that when regarding this input. Her bimini was purchased from Overtons, and is aluminum.
Installation was easy, just the matter of some screws, and adjusting the straps. I sailed a lot in the summer down here off the coast with the bimini up. A clear vinyl window in the top would be nice, so you could see the main for trimming sail, without having to peer out and around the bimini.
Having done it, I consider the addition of a bimini a necessity, not a luxury. From rain at anchor, to June/July/August Carolina sunshine, the bimini makes the cockpit a much more liveable area. It was probably one of the most-used pieces of gear on the whole boat. :)
Hi CaptK,
Thanks for the input. What are the dimensions of your bimini and did you install a separate track, if so, does that track come with the bimini package or do you have to order the tracks separately? Also, did you order from Overtons online or by phone (any problems either way)?
By the way, I saw the photos of your CP23 on your website. Nice looking sailboat. I especially like the photos of your dogs. I have a Golden Retriever that looks just like yours. I plan to take him sailing, but am worried about him jumping in the water in the middle of the lake. Do you have any problems with your dogs jumping in?
Thanks, Fred
Fred -
I don't recall the dimensions exactly, and Epiphany is in NC now, so I can't measure for you. However, I did install it onto a (24"?) track I purchased along with the bimini from Overtons (via telephone, IIRC). The track sat on the deck, inboard and to the forward end of the genny tracks, overlapping a bit. Positioned there, the bimini frame can interfere with the sheets, but, for me at least, that was a very rare occurence, and not a big enough problem to recommend positioning them elsewhere.
Thank you for the compliments on Epiphany - she is a great boat. She left here the day before yesterday with her new captain Greg Cowen, who I am sure will be taking excellent care of her. Neither of my dogs ever jumped off, but they both mind me really well, knowing that the Captain is both tyrannical and in charge of rations. ;) :mrgreen:
CaptK,
One last question. When you received your bimini from Overton, did you have to cut 6" off of the height pole to shorten it from 46" to 40", or did you just leave it at 46"? Thanks, Fred.
PS - Although you have sold your Com_Pac, I hope you are not giving up sailing.
Fred -
No trimming was necessary - it worked fine with the default dimensions. :)
I could never give up sailing, short of dying. :) Though it will be a while before I can sail her, I have another boat. I will be rebuilding her hull out, which will take a while. She's a 1966 Pearson Ariel, hull #370. She's been neglected and needs a lot of work, but should work fine for offshore journeys when I get her done. Hello Bermuda! :mrgreen:
(http://liquid-epiphany.com/images/photoalbum/11/DSC00143_web.jpg)
Now, that sounds like fun!
I recently purchased and installed a new bimini on my 1990 23 D. The particulars are: Ameri-Brand Products, Inc. (http://www.websweeper.com/php/bimini_tops/bim-001.php), aluminum bimini top BIM-A4675U (78" wide, 46" high, 72" long) for $262.69 and a pair of 3' aluminum side tracks 62001 for $23.75, shipping from California to Arkansas for $24.00, and a price discount for $26.27 with a total order cost of $284.17. The top and track came with all the necessary fittings and screws, however, the screws for attaching the tracks and padeyes to the deck seemed oversized and therefore I replaced them with smaller screws pruchased for a few $s from Home Depot. I am very pleased with the quality of the bimini, and Ameri-Brand offered all the Sunbrella fabric colors thereby enabling me to match the original brown fabric on the mainsail and tiller covers. The cost was less than that for a bimini from Overtons. JSI provided the OEM biminis to Hutchins, and according to them the OEM bimini measured 78" wide, 39" high, and 60" long. The additional foot in the length of the Ameri-Brand bimini poses no problem, particularly when the bimini is mounted on a track. The track enables me to either slide the bimini back so that when folded it can rest on the stern pulpit against the backstay (after unclipping the main sheet conected to the boom with a captive pin D shackle), or to slide the bimin forward so that it can rest against the cabin top. I had to drill out the rivets holding the fittings to bottom of the main bimini tubes, cut-off 9.9" to reduce the height of the bimini, and then rerivet the fittings. Since the main tube rises at a 45 degree angle to the deck when the bimini is unfolded, cutting off 9.9" lowers the height by 7" from 46" to 39". As the boom seems to have quite a few inches of clearance over the 39" height, some may want to cut fewer than 9.9" off the tube. While you can purchase stainless steel rather than aluminum tubes from Ameri-Brand, the weight of the stainless is a disadvantage. Ameri-Brand uses double wall tubing, and the strength of the tubing is not an issue. Jay.
Hi Jay,
Thanks for the post. You indicated that after cutting 9.9 inches off of the tube you still had several inches of clearance. If you left the height at 46" and not cut anything, would there be any clearance or would the bimini top interfere with the boom? Fred.
Fred, I think you could cut less than 9.9" off the tube and still have plenty of clearance. The amount of clearance is obviously both a function of the bimini tube length and the boom height, which in turn is a function of the length of the main luff and how high the main is hoisted up the mast. With an original main hoisted to the top you could probably cut off less. Its best to measure. Jay.
Fred, after looking at you question again, I'm not sure my answer was adequate. I believe a 46" length will be too high, and that at least a few inches will have to be cut off. Incidentally, the height of the tube can not not only cause interference with the boom after the bimini is unfolded, but it also can make folding the bimini a bit more difficult if your intent is for the bimini to rest forward on the cabin when not in use. Although when unfolded the main tube is a 45 degree angle to the deck, in order to lay the folded bimini forward, the main tube must pass through a 90 degree angle to the deck. Although one an physically lift the boom somewhat to enable the folded bimini to clear the boom, this is not easily done when under sail. This having been said, you might want to try folding and unfolding the bimini before you decide the clearance is sufficient, particularly if you think there might be an occassion when I would want the bimini, when not in use, to to rest forward on the cabin rather than aft on the stern pulpit. Jay.
Jay,
Thanks for your comments, they are very helpful. I have just received by Bimini but I have not installed it yet. I think I will line everything up first before I do any cutting. I do have one additional question. Can you sail with the bimini open? If you can, do you have to have the boom attadched to the backstay with the pigtail (to keep the boom high), or can you still sail with the boom unattached? When I look at the boom when it is unattached to the backstay, it seems awfully low, in fact too low for a bimini to clear it. I was hoping I could sail with it unfolded. Maybe I just need to raise where the boom and gooseneck attach to the mast. What do you think? - Thanks, Fred.
Fred, you should be able to sail with the bimini unfolded, and if not then you should shorten the main tubes. Obviously, the bimini does impede your forward view and view of the sails. The pig tail is used in lieu of a topping line to hold the boom up when the mailsail is furled. Assuming you unfold the bimini when it is slid aft as far as it will go, you shouldn't have to hold the boom up with the pig tail when unfolding. Again, all of this depends on the length of the main tubes. Jay.
Just an FYI that I just bought and installed the Ameribrands bimini as well. It was the 78" wide, 46" high, 72" long model. I cut about 7" off to get 41" high, and it seems to be working well. The double wall tubing is solid. I upgraded to stainless steel fittings (not the tubing). I would recommend this one.
Thanks to all the folks who posted this discussion topic. It was a big help to me.
Old thread but I figured I'd update it... I just finished installing the bimini from Ameri-Brands on my 23/3. The manufacturer is Carver Industries and it looks well made. I went with the stainless steel tubing since I'm on the ocean and True Brown sunbrella which will match my sail bags. I cut about 8" off the main tube to get the height down.
I went with a 4' track (which is aluminum) and it just fit to give a wide range of positioning. With the bimini all the way forward it covers the companionway which could be nice at anchor. Couldn't sail that way as it blocks the winches though.
Shawn
Shawn:
Thanks for the revive. I am interested in seeing what you've done. Any chance you can post photos or email 'em to me? My address is in my profile. Thanks!\
Bob23
Shawn,
Mine is about the same as yours. The first shipment from Ameri-Brands was the wrong shade of blue and the stainless was scratched. However, they quickly made everything right. I also used 4 foot track, but generally don't use that much.
Bob,
Sure, here are some photos....
This is roughly where I think the bimini will need to be to sail. Maybe slightly forward from this position. Access to the foredeck is still not too bad with the bimini up. It seems easier to get out of the cockpit then it is to get back in.
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3358/4633442725_5e76345e92_b.jpg)
Zoomed out a bit:
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4027/4634037954_d8eb8b6e70_b.jpg)
Track installed:
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4054/4633444933_4e64a2ca90_b.jpg)
Bimini all the way back on track. I didn't bother to tighten the rear straps.
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3363/4633447385_3f2a02b45f_b.jpg)
All the way forward on track.
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4036/4633450257_286e2e6810_b.jpg)
Another view all the way forward:
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4023/4634050000_7cb250dfeb_b.jpg)
As you can see the forward eyestraps are not positioned well for when the top is all the way forward. I'll probably just hook to the handholds when I have the top all the way forward. I put the eyestraps where they are to try and keep them out of the way from going forward when the bimini is in its typical position for sailing. Even at this position they straps are slightly to long so I have to wrap them around the tube one turn to be able to tighten the straps down when in the sailing position.
Depending upon where the bimini is in the track the lifelines will either go on the outside or inside of the frame.
Shawn
"I also used 4 foot track, but generally don't use that much."
I went with it as I liked the flexibility it gives as far as where I store the bimini when it isn't up. I think it will let me put the top in front of the companionway hatch when it is closed which is good. I can't have it on top of the hatch as my 40w solar panel is there.
Where do you like to store your bimini? Does my sailing position for the top look about right?
Thanks,
Shawn
Looking at these pics is funny... when I first went to look at Serenity (she was not named that then) I liked everything about it...except the brown.
However, it has really grown on my though, just looks very understated and classic. Good thing too since I did the name/registration numbers in the same color and bought a foredeck and mainsail bag in the same sunbrella True Brown.
Need to get her to the water......
Shawn
Quote from: jaguaretype on January 25, 2005, 11:22:50 AM
I recently purchased and installed a new bimini on my 1990 23 D. The particulars are: Ameri-Brand Products, Inc. (http://www.websweeper.com/php/bimini_tops/bim-001.php), aluminum bimini top BIM-A4675U (78" wide, 46" high, 72" long) for $262.69 and a pair of 3' aluminum side tracks 62001 for $23.75, shipping from California to Arkansas for $24.00, and a price discount for $26.27 with a total order cost of $284.17. The top and track came with all the necessary fittings and screws, however, the screws for attaching the tracks and padeyes to the deck seemed oversized and therefore I replaced them with smaller screws pruchased for a few $s from Home Depot. I am very pleased with the quality of the bimini, and Ameri-Brand offered all the Sunbrella fabric colors thereby enabling me to match the original brown fabric on the mainsail and tiller covers. The cost was less than that for a bimini from Overtons. JSI provided the OEM biminis to Hutchins, and according to them the OEM bimini measured 78" wide, 39" high, and 60" long. The additional foot in the length of the Ameri-Brand bimini poses no problem, particularly when the bimini is mounted on a track. The track enables me to either slide the bimini back so that when folded it can rest on the stern pulpit against the backstay (after unclipping the main sheet conected to the boom with a captive pin D shackle), or to slide the bimin forward so that it can rest against the cabin top. I had to drill out the rivets holding the fittings to bottom of the main bimini tubes, cut-off 9.9" to reduce the height of the bimini, and then rerivet the fittings. Since the main tube rises at a 45 degree angle to the deck when the bimini is unfolded, cutting off 9.9" lowers the height by 7" from 46" to 39". As the boom seems to have quite a few inches of clearance over the 39" height, some may want to cut fewer than 9.9" off the tube. While you can purchase stainless steel rather than aluminum tubes from Ameri-Brand, the weight of the stainless is a disadvantage. Ameri-Brand uses double wall tubing, and the strength of the tubing is not an issue. Jay.
I want to give a huge "thank you" to Jay for this post, even though it is ancient. I took this info and used it to order a bimini from the same outfit using the same specs. The price, of course, was not the same! I installed my new bimini last week, and on Friday, it had its maiden voyage. Everything seems perfect! I love when things like this happen! Jay did the research, and I benefited. Thanks!
-Speak