I need to purchase an outboard for my new CP19. Do I need a 25" shaft or will a 20" do? I was thinking 6hp since I'm in coastal waters. What's your recommendation?
Congrats on your new 19!
If you are outboard shopping I'd suggest the 25 inch shaft. I am so much happier with the extra long shaft outboard that replaced my 20 inch on my cp19. Most of the time the 20 was just fine but there were occassions when it would cavitate in a steep chop when I needed to make good progress. Both my outboards are early 1980s, 2 stroke and 7 1/2 hp. The one I am currently using is a Johnson sailmaster. Despite its age it has been very dependable. (knock on wood) Its only quirky feature is that it always takes about 8 pulls to start when cold. A six hp outboard pushed my 3200 lb O'Day 23 just fine on a large lake where I sailed. I was happy with an 8hp on a 5000lb Albin Vega for coastal sailing. I'm guessing the 6hp will be fine for your 19.
My 23 calculates to have the need for 5.6 HP for hull speed. I initially had a 9.9 electric start four stroke that came with the with the boat. It was too heavy, caused stern squat, shipping water up the scuppers, and difficult to remove for travel. I bought a 6 hp Sailpro with a 25 inch shaft. The aforementioned problems gone. No electric start, but it will pull start easily, usually taking two or three pulls even if left idle for months. I never run it dry, never disconnect the fuel line unless I have to fill the tank, only use non ethanol gasoline and put a spot of sea foam in it, and pour it in my truck if a tank sits more than six months. This process has allowed me to avoid the normal problems with these little carbs.
I would suggest you resist the normal tendency to overpower. The Sailpro would probably be fine for your 19. It is, after all, a sailboat.
Sailpro, in the Nissan version, now comes as propane. Same displacement as the gasoline, but the HP is derated to 5 because of the BTU difference in the fuel mixture. If I were doing it today for a 19, that is what I would get. Unlike Lehr it is a proven name with parts availability worldwide.
I'm running a 6hp Tohatsu long shaft on my Eclipse, about same displacement as CP19, and it pushes her to hull speed under 1/2 throttle in calm waters. Plenty of power, I wouldn't go higher. Brackish is spot on with fuel use/storage advise. I prefer Sta-Bil over Seafoam but it's doing the same thing.
Thanks for all the good info. It appears that Sailpro is the only one offered in a 25" shaft, which is a big investment. I can find used 20" shaft motors (at 1/3 the price of a new motor), but will they work.
Will a 20" shaft small motor be sufficient with the CP19? Any one running one?
With a short shaft you'll find that any time you shift your weight forward of the cockpit the prop will come out of the water. It's also likely to do this in a choppy sea. The 19 unfortunately has a high freeboard for a boat of this size.
I can't say this has ever caused me any motor damage but it's very disconcerting when it happens. I'd consider a long shaft to be a must-have. You don't have to buy a new motor; there are lots of used ones on the market.
Wes
I am running a long shaft (20") 1998 Yamaha 8 hp 2 stroke twin, 59lbs and it's perfect for this boat. The 6hp version is basically identical with the exception of tuning (reeds, carb settings mostly). Both are the same weight.
However, I'm on a small lake with very little current, no tide and waves won't exceed 2 ft. I have sailed on a larger lake with bigger seas, and didn't have any trouble with the prop coming out. However, I'm sure it would with any larger waves. It's generally advised to go as long as possible, especially if you are expecting any seas beyond about 2-3 ft. And if you are on deck often to anchor, especially solo, this situation may cause the outboard to come out. You don't want the water pump to run dry too much, so this is another case for an ultra long shaft.
Personally, I like two stroke twins for their smoothness, low weight and reliability. "Mileage" isn't as good as 4 strokes, but it doesn't matter to me on a small lake. However, I've had reliability issues with 4 strokes related to ethanol and spark plug fouling and had to rebuild carbs far too often for my taste.
How are the waves in your body of water? Are there local outboarded sailors nearby that you could ask about their setup?
Don't be afraid to travel for a deal, too. I drove about 100 miles to buy (used) my outboard. And another 40 to sell the Nissan 6hp 4 stroke that I absolutely hated. Not a big deal in the end.
Think it comes down to your realistic traveling range and conditions. If you're gonna head down 20 miles in 25knts on the bay then the 25in 6hp might be good insurance if you've gotta run back into that chop. Given the age of most 19's you might be in the market to replace the outboard bracket which could increase your vertical drop too. I had a 4hp 20in Yamaha and loved the engine and never had trouble with it popping out but did find reverse a bit lacking. Keep on eye on Facebook market for outboards, found a Tohatsu 3.5hp last fall for cheap. The hunt is always fun!
I have a Tohatsu (affectionately named "Sue) on my 1985 23/2. 6 hp, 4 stroke, 25" shaft and I couldn't be happier. Of course being a single cylinder Sue tends to vibrate more than my old Miss Nissan, size 82 cylinder. the 25" shaft is a must, my old Miss Nissan was a 20" shaft and would cavitate when riding through waves.
Sue sips fuel, never complains, and usually starts on the first or second pull and we easily reach our cruising speed of 5 knots max with about 1/3 throttle. I know the 23 has a theoretical hull speed of 6.02 knots but 5 max feels right under power. Yeah, Sue is a keeper!!
Hope this helps you!!
Bob23
82 cylinders, Oh My!
My 19 sports a 2006 Yamaha LS 4hp 2 stroke, sips gas, hull speed at 1/2 throttle, and is RELIABLE.
TG
Yes, these 6 hp sailpros are attractive but price got me shopping used. Find a dependable used 20" , 6-8hp and go sailing. Sell the 20 or have a spare if a used 25 shows up later. The 19 I have is a 1983. It was sailed, apparently successfully enough, in New Hampshire and Maine bays, river mouths and cosasts for over 30 years with the original 1983 7 1/2 hp, long (20in) shaft. When it died I bought an '82 8 hp long shaft and used that for several years until I found the lightly used, '83, 7 1/2hp, freshwater, extra long shaft Sailmaster.
I should add that I was able to buy my Sailpro used with only a few hours on it. Local here in NJ.
Tim, yes- this is a rare 82 cylinder model...I'm glad I don't own Miss Nissan anymore- spark plug costs were killin' me!
wish I could agree with everyone regarding a 4 hp merc. mine starts up but has never idled correctly. after three years of messing with it I have put it up for sale on craigslist. funny how I can put any kind of fuel in my Silverado and it will run just fine but in what is essentially a lawnmower engine -----not. you would think that its a Ferrari. im going to get a two stroke if I can find one
Ah, those teensy-weensy little carbs with their tiny passages are very susceptible to ethanol-induced gunk. Had this problem with a Honda 2.3 - tried to clean the carb but the passages are so small they are nigh impossible to clean using a spray can of carb cleaner (had to bring it to a dealer for ultrasonication). My understanding is that the newer 4-stroke 4 HP mercs suffer from this issue. I suggest you use high test gas without ethanol, if you can find it. In Canada this can still be had through Esso gas stations
"Restless" came with a 2002 6 HP 2-stroke merc which runs very smoothly, delivers plenty of power and just sips a wee dram of gas to get in and out of the harbor. Carb sometimes gets gummed up toward the end of the season from old fuel just sitting in it all Summer. But at least its easy to clean by conventional means, and will even respond to a good spritz of Seafoam.
Still very happy with my Torqeedo 1003, but I do not reach hull speed, and only use in tight areas. It is an acquired taste. Love the simplicity,and the lack of gas can...
Should have it, and the extra batteries, paid off this decade or next...
tried the non ethanol fuel, removed, disassembled and cleaned the carb numerous times with little or no success. all I know is that all of the two strokes I have owned including a 40 hp mariner and the 1989 80 hp 2 stroke triple on my bass boat do (not) require special fuel or constant fiddling to run. they just start up and run. im done with a 4 stroke
Thank you all for the helpful advice. I found a Mercury 5 HP 2 stroke 20" shaft for $500. I really wanted a 2 stroke for the above mentioned carb concerns. I'm looking forward to spring to try it all out.
Quote from: Finbar Beagle on January 11, 2019, 09:14:04 PM
Still very happy with my Torqeedo 1003, but I do not reach hull speed, and only use in tight areas. It is an acquired taste. Love the simplicity,and the lack of gas can...
Should have it, and the extra batteries, paid off this decade or next...
I, too, am very happy with Torqueedo (on a SunCat) so long as I don't think about what we paid for it. Quiet, reliable. Need to consider range, of course, which can be extended with extra battery, solar panel or both. We can easily hit hull speed on this smaller boat, and we have had to fight significant wind and waves at times, without issue.
Curious about electric propulsion: if you were out on an extended cruise and depleted your batteries (say, if you had to hightail it to a distant anchorage), would a solar panel (e.g., 60-100 watt) be capable of fully recharging your lithium battery in couple of sunny days or so while you are out?
Quote from: Jackrabbit on January 14, 2019, 04:57:12 PM
Curious about electric propulsion: if you were out on an extended cruise and depleted your batteries (say, if you had to hightail it to a distant anchorage), would a solar panel (e.g., 60-100 watt) be capable of fully recharging your lithium battery in couple of sunny days or so while you are out?
I don't have direct experience with this (yet) but have started to look into it. With Torqueedo's solar panel, which is expensive (hey, it is from Torqueedo) -50 watts at 12v - I am given to understand (by someone who has tested it out) that you can run direct from the panel in good sun at low power - if memory serves, 1/4 power - if the battery is exhausted. I have a 12v power cord that I can run from a small battery bank direct to the motor and have hooked it up just one time, with the battery still around 50%, and it seemed to increase my potential range; these batteries would be easily topped off with a modest solar array (I think, in my case, 50 watts would do fine). I need to try that out next season with a low battery...To top off the Torqueedo battery via solar should be easy enough, too but I don't have the specs to offer timing; but the techs at Torqueedo are pretty responsive to questions and I bet they could offer very specific advice (which, of course, might be to buy their pricey panel).
I looked into the panel a little bit, but the size of the Torqeedo one pose challenges on my 19. I also thought most high wind days for me are overcast. The thought of deploying the solar panel in a heavy wind will probly result in poor crew moral, and split rum.
A second battery is best security, in my humble opinion.
The notion of electric auxiliary propulsion is very compelling, perhaps more so as I just read that your Prez is now mandating E15, which spells sure doom for small gas engines. Here in Canada we generally have 10% EtOH, though I've no doubt our environmentally-obsessed Prime Minister will eventually follow suite on E15. Already I have experienced carb issues with ethanol fuel using regular gas, stripping & cleaning the carb now being an annual ritual, and up here the only place you can get ethanol-free gas is Esso, though you have to buy their high test gas, which is really not what the manufacturer recommends for my trusty Merc 6 HP 2-stroke. Sigh...
Fortunately, my main cruiser, an Aloha 32, has a venerable Westerbeke, though even diesel is coming under attack these days, and I'm sure our politicians will soon have those engines on the ropes before the next decade is out.
Looks like its soon enough gonna be electric for us all, me laddies...
Oh, dear, how will I ever cut my lawn in the days to come?
Although, I suppose another alternative would be propane outboards, Lehr comes to mind. Anybody out there have any experience with those?
I will further add that up here in the Great White North the only advantage of Ethanol gas is that we no longer have to add gasline anti-freeze in our car tanks, though that's small consolation indeed for the boating imperative!
Jack:
Nothing wrong with Hi-test in your motor. I use it in mine as well as generators and chainsaws. I've been using a product called "E-Z Zorb" which somehow absorbs the ethanol in the gas...or something like that. All I know is I never have outboard motor or small engine problems since I've been using it. A marina owner turned my onto to this and because it's so concentrated, a bottle goes a long way, unlike Gosslings Black Seal rum which seems disappear quite quickly around here!
Bob23 in NJ
<<<Oh, dear, how will I ever cut my lawn in the days to come?>>>
I am happy to report that the first mate loves her little electric mower, best purchase I have made in recent years. I only need to make a gesture toward cutting grass and she takes over! Ours is small, for a modest yard but I am seeing more, better and bigger battery mowers (which I consider way better than the corded ones, since running down the cord at some point seems inevitable).
...... I just read that your Prez is now mandating E15, which spells sure doom for small gas engines.
Not sure what you've read but "mandate" is not an accurate term. Here is what is actually happening:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/ellenrwald/2018/10/09/trumps-new-ethanol-rule-wont-change-your-gasoline/#2c6faec07d96
It is not even available where I am, however there are three stations within 5 miles of me that sell non ethanol fuel. I'm sure they will continue. And that is all that my Marina sells. And that is all I use in my outboards and small engine lawn equipment.
With regard to Lehr, I have heard nothing but bad, not because of propane but because of quality of build and parts availability. As I mentioned earlier in this thread, Nissan now offers propane in the Sail Pro model. I would have no qualms about going in that direction. In fact I'm hoping they will come out with a conversion kit. Very few parts to change for that. Carb off, propane mixing device on and the cylinder head has to be replaced. I think they also add an inlet solenoid valve for safety I may just try to do it with service parts depending on total cost.
I saw it recently as a news item on my Google feed. Guess I mis-understood it, though in my neck of the woods most gas has 10% EtOH, and its hard to avoid. In any event, would a propane conversion kit only work with 4-stroke engines (because they have an oil sump to provide lubrication)? I really love my merc 2-stroke 6 HP, it is the most reliable, smooth running outboard I've ever had. Starts on the first or second pull every time, even at the first try after Spring launching. I guess the reason I've experienced trouble lately is because I seldom run the engine in the Summer as I now spend most of my time with my Aloha. The Compac 19 sits idle in her slip much of the Summer, with only a few jaunts out on the lake after work now and then, and I barely go through one 3 gallon tank the entire season. Also, I really only ever need the motor to get in and out of the harbour. A Torqueedo would make a lot of sense for the way I use the boat, though the price tag is so staggeringly high, that I guess for now I'll just keep to the routine of cleaning the carburetor every Winter (last two seasons the problem I experienced near haul-out time is that the engine runs on idle but bogs down when I open the throttle) . I do disconnect the gas line from the tank and run the carb dry if I know I'll be away for an extended period, though I don't know if that really gets rid of all the residual fuel that might dry and cake the jets.
This EtOH thing is going to make carburetor experts out of all of us!
S.V. "Restless"
I do disconnect the gas line from the tank and run the carb dry if I know I'll be away for an extended period, though I don't know if that really gets rid of all the residual fuel that might dry and cake the jets.
I do just the opposite. I never disconnect the gas line from the tank and never run the carb dry. Water(from the air) condenses in empty cavities with temperature changes. I don't have carb problems due to fuel. Now dirt daubers in the engine cowl, that's another story. That is some really fine dirt.....
My neighbor goes to the airport and gets aviation gas for all his lawn equipment and 9.9 kicker outboard used if his main engine dies offshore.
I always run stuff with Stabil, even in the summer. Knock on wood, I haven't had any issues but do run all of my lawn equipment most of the year. In the winter, I just run them for a few mins every month. For the Diesel, I use a stabilizer and biocide.
talked to a friend of mine who is going to soak his carb in seafoam. I might try that
does someone make larger jets for these merc 4 stroke carbs?
Larger jets will make the engine run richer, not a good thing. Don't try to change those out!
I've never had luck just soaking jets or full carbs, it loosens the deposits, but you really need to get in there and mechanically remove the buildup. Most of the carb cleaning tool kits don't have wires small enough to get into these tiny holes. The best tool I've found is a set of 61-80 number drill bits that can be found at Grainger or online. Just using your fingers holding the bit start with a bit that fits the hole loosely and work up one larger at a time until you feel just a bit of resistance. don't go too large to where you are removing metal from the jet or carb passage. Go through every single small hole in the carb blowing out each passage with carb cleaner as you go.
Kick, have you eliminated the float valve as the cause of your problems. If it starts, runs a short time, then stalls, the valve may be sticking closed. If it runs then you idle back and it will not run at idle, and floods the valve may be sticking open. I've had floats that opened and let some fuel in which causes them to be heavy and not rise properly. Lots of time that is the problem but folks blame clogged jets.
I've had my carb completely clogged up with fine dirt dauber silt. Took two cleanings but finally got it right. Those pressure cans of cleaner have always worked for me. My car rebuilding BIL used to swear by soaking but claims the soak has been watered down in its effectiveness due to EPA banning certain chemicals in them.
as soon as the weather warms im gonna attack the thing again. I don't think the float or valve is the problem but I will not count that out. its probably 20 degrees outside so im not in a big hurry. hate to sell the motor. damned thing is like new and uses very little gas. starts up fine just wont idle worth a (*^*&^&%
Hey Kick---if you can get that 49 Ford humming, that outboard should be easy. Go buy one of those gallons cans of Gunk Carb Cleaner. Tear that bad boy apart and let 'er soak for a few days. Spray with Gunk Carb cleaner and soak another few days. Once it's nice and sauced up, spray it real good with compressed air and a little flexible hose to get in passages. A small package of model (CA) glue tips with the compressor at the big end and the tip down holes will work great.
It will run like new until next year when you'll have the same problem, but it will give you something to do next winter!
you would think that after resurrecting the 52 that I could fix that little lawnmower like merc. I will take your advice unless some buys it first. theres always a cruise and carry. those two little motors both run and idle fine. if only they weren't so noisey and old (from the 60s I think