Whats peoples experience with having 3 or even 4 average adults on a 16? it would seem to me that this is really a boat for solo, up to 3 people, but that 4 would be pretty cramped. Anyone experience otherwise?
I see you're new here, welcome to the forum.
Well, the cockpit is rather long for her size but the beam is fairly narrow. You'll bang knees before elbows.
Another issue beyond crew comfort is the amount of weight aft you'll carry with a full load. She'll sail poorly with too much weight aft, so don't make it worse by using a big outboard and do load dense weight in the forepeak to offset. Maybe put the lightweight crew aft too.
I've done 3 adults and 3 adults with 4-6 yr old girl several times when I owned a 16. Nothing serious, just a small lake with no performance expectations and good conditions. We were fine for the 2-3 hours, but sure it's going to feel tight much beyond a short sail. I suppose it depends on the size of crew and tolerance of each other. Safety wise I'm not sure I would want 3 or more crew aboard in anything too challenging unless all are good sailors.
we're with Salty
3 adults tops and less than 600lb
unless you have installed an ankle strap
for hiking out
distribution of adults is important for
helm balance
our 3 cents
thank you both! I am new indeed to the forum, about to buy a 1978 16 for bay sailing in cape cod. Your answers confirm my expectations, and thanks again
Ah, Cape Cod.
I imagine a well setup 16 would do great on those waters. Be sure to factor in getting a new foiled rudder in your purchase, and maybe new sails if they are old. They will make a huge difference in performance.
Also don't forget about the $5,000 new membership fee to Bob23. Read other posts for ideas how to avoid this fee.
Most I ever had aboard my "Foundling" was during her shakedown cruise in April (http://cpyoa.geekworkshosting.com/forum/index.php?topic=9865.msg76339#msg76339). That was three lumbering galoots for those keeping score: Danny, then owner of the local sailing school (who was always interested in the whole "rescue" of this poor abandoned gal), his buddy a tugboat captain, who just happened to be around, and myself. None of us is exactly petite. The worn out scupper valves on the stern, since replaced, leaked merrily into the cockpit, but we were just fine for a few hours in what were some unusually fresh winds for that typically mellow stretch of the Potomac--with maybe 35 mph gusts. Danny had some students out in a couple of his Catalinas testing for their ASA certifications, so we just lumbered elegantly around thither and yon observing their progress. A splendid time was had by all, and was wholly unplanned. My original plan was just to dunk her to see if she'd sink right there at the boat ramp. Here she is having just come back:
(http://bukmop.com/ComPac16/FirstSplash.jpg)
They may not be speed demons, but those CP 16s are astonishingly stable and surefooted, and offer a remarkably commodious cockpit for their size. We could have easily taken on a fourth if we'd liked and been perfectly comfy. If memory serves, I believe the CP-16s may be rated for 6 passengers maximum, but that would be a bit of a crowd--like in some sort of rescue scenario. I'd do 4 folks without a second thought though for a normal little day sail on the river. Your mileage off the rollicking Cape may vary.
Bilge, love the lifelines on your CP, did you install them yourself? Looking for advice. I have three kids I like to take with me and mine does not have lifelines and I would feel better with them.
Quote from: greg988 on November 17, 2017, 09:12:56 AM
Bilge, love the lifelines on your CP, did you install them yourself? Looking for advice. I have three kids I like to take with me and mine does not have lifelines and I would feel better with them.
Greg,
Sorry for the delay in response, but to answer your question, those lifelines were already on the boat when I got her. My hunch is that the good folks at Com-Pac/Hutchins Yachts (http://www.com-pacyachts.com/) might be able to square you away with a set. Might be a challenging installation.
we replaced the cockpit lines with 7/8" SS tubing (defender $$)
covered with 1/8" cording wrapping (SS gets hot in the sun), which is much sturdier/safer for young hands; although we kept the lines forward.
The 7/8" tubing now makes a complete SS railing around the cockpit
since we also moved the mainsheet to a 7/8" SS tube traveler
connecting the aft port/starboard pulpits.
Ahoy Captain;
Would ye have any pics of your SS mods? I'd sure like to do something like that on my new-to-me 16.
Thanks!
I've had good luck with 3 adults: 2 in the cockpit and 1 in the cabin. Yes the cabin. Experiment with various seating. A padded board athwart ship works best for me.
Roller furling helps a lot.
For ballast I carry several plastic coated 10 pound weights repurposed from a weight lifting set. (Why anyone would "lift weights" is beyond me.) Experiment with moving the weights around, depending on the conditions and your personal preference. Even 30 pounds in the bow will make a difference.
Smooth sailing!
abousall, one of the challenges with the CP16 is the scupper placement, as mentioned by a few others.
I've been sailing my CP16 between NY and ME for the last few years and whenever I have more than two adults in the cockpit water is coming in (especially if you are sailing in anything more than a moderate sea) and swashing around. This is fine south of us, but in New England the water is cold, as you know, until August so you end up having to sail in rubber boots if you load the boat down.
There're scupper values as Bildgemaster mentioned, but I have never found a great working and long-lasting design. Rerouting the scuppers to a through hull type design is probably the best solution IMO.
Good luck buying the boat and getting her ready for CC waters.
Tim
If water is just coming in through the scuppers and not from over the rails couldn't a couple of corks be used to keep the water out. Pull them out in the rain, at mooring or if the water is coming over the rails. My friend Sam Adams and I just thought this up.
Corks are wonderful things. Best to be used when necessary and not all the time. That way, one doesn't forget they are in and get swamped, possibly.
TG
Quote from: Tim Gardner on December 09, 2017, 06:59:48 AM
Corks are wonderful things. Best to be used when necessary and not all the time. That way, one doesn't forget they are in and get swamped, possibly.
TG
True that! Just make sure that the two corks you use did not come from the two bottles of wine consumed while out! Good chance there might be other issues besides just a little water coming through scuppers! :)
We have had 4 fully grown (can't call any of us adults!) folks in a 16 navigating the tricky waters (read current, waves and shoals) between Ocracoke and Portsmouth with no problems, well a few bugs once we got there!
two, unless they are really, really small
Mas,
I made that run in a 16 foot fiberglass canoe with two adults and one teenager. While the boat had positive flotation, it was not self rescuing. I checked out and back in with the Coast Guard at Ocracoke. The largest misquotes I have ever seen. One of the best days of sailing I ever had.
Dave
Quote from: Citroen/Dave on December 17, 2017, 11:52:36 AM
Mas,
I made that run in a 16 foot fiberglass canoe with two adults and one teenager. While the boat had positive flotation, it was not self rescuing. I checked out and back in with the Coast Gard at Ocracoke. The largest misquotes I have ever seen. One of the best days of sailing I ever had.
Dave
Yup ditto on boh bugs and sailing! We took our 16 almost around to the ocean side of the inlet so as to avoid the bugs and kept letting out rode as the tide changed. Pretty impressive currents there.
You gunna make it to CBMWG 3.0 this year? Check out the cruising grounds there for a summer trip.
What about the cabin, can 2 adults fit comfortably? I'm torn between the 16 & 19. If I knew my wife & I would be comfortable in the 16 cabin I'd have a decision. I'm 6'4" and she's 5'8" and were both thin. I'm not sure my size 12 feet would fit under the quarter berth. I'm planning on doing weekend and some week long cruising on the Chesapeake Bay and surrounding coastal areas. Any thoughts?
I'm 6'5" and have slept (if you can call it that) on a 16. wouldn't do it again. that's why I bought a catalina 18. a cp 19 has far more room than a 16 and is a better sailor. it might take a little more time to rig but I think its worth it. always want to keep your lady happy. off and on I have succeeded in that for over 41 years
Quote from: kickingbug1 on January 18, 2018, 04:51:17 PM
I'm 6'5" and have slept (if you can call it that) on a 16. wouldn't do it again. that's why I bought a catalina 18. a cp 19 has far more room than a 16 and is a better sailor. it might take a little more time to rig but I think its worth it. always want to keep your lady happy. off and on I have succeeded in that for over 41 years
Hey Kick, I would say a different sail. the 16 sails like the 23, whereas the 19 is a more upright sail. Different hull designs.
The 16 and 23 are the same hull design. I have never been out on a 19 in heavy weather so can't speak to their qualities but both the 16 & 23 handle weather pretty well and don't pound but they will hobby horse. Heck most small boats will hobby horse some.
MGS, the berths on the 16 are useful as foul weather weekending but are not where we spent most of our time sleeping. We either beached her and slept ashore or we had a small platform that could fill the area of the footwell in the cockpit and we slept there. Queen sized and almost 7 feet long! If you wish to trailer often then i believe you will find he 16 much easier to trailer, rig and launch.
Mas--I think what Kick is trying to say is the 19's point significantly better than the 16's and are vastly more stable and comfortable to sail. They also are much quicker given the same captain skills. Also the interior cabin room is night and day. Two people in a 16 is TIGHT and UNCOMFORTABLE. The berths are like coffins. Two in a 19 is doable. The interior volume of a 19 is about DOUBLE the volume of a 16.
I think the big issue is the 19's are a lot more work to rig if you're a trailer sailor. I for one would not want to rig it each time, it would deter me from going sailing, but the 16 would not deter me. However I don't enjoy this process and perhaps you may not think rigging it is a big deal. But if one will primarily go out for an overnight or longer, the extra rigging time is less of an issue, and with some creative rigging (ie quick disconnect blocks on boom, short battens, mast raising system) wouldn't be an issue.
We have raced these boats quite a bit at the CLR. With the exception of Matt in his 16, who is practically a professional racer, the 19's will outsail a 16 every time. I recall one year in a tough upwind race when I beat a 23 in my 19 (barely, but it counted) and all the 19's placed ahead of other boatsm including an Eclipse. There was a 45 minute difference between them over about 4.5 miles. The 16's could not point as high and had to tack many more times to make the same distance over ground.
I love the 16's--they are great little boats and will own one again to trailer someday, but the 19's really outperform them and offer so much more space.
MGS--I would say that two adults will NOT fit comfortably in a 16. The bunks are coffin-like, the beam is narrow, the roof low and very little room for you both and your gear. With that said, people have crossed oceans in smaller boats--it's all about your tolerance level I guess.
I'm 6'2" and have slept comfortably in my 16 with a 3/4 trermarest mattress - yes it is like sleeping in a pup tent cozy - but I slept pretty well
Ken J
Last summer I went on a 5 day trip to the north channel with a buddy of mine and stayed aboard my 16 the whole time. Sleeping aboard wasn't great but that was not the boat's fault. Read that as two old guys who have to get up during the night multiple times. I am not a small guy and the berths in the 16 are fine for me. I sleep with my head on the shelf in the front of the cabin using a minimal size pillow. I cannot sit upright in the cabin, but my friend could. I doubt that I will ever sleep in the cockpit because I would be devoured. I can lift the cockpit grate up to make the cockpit a sleeping platform, but unless there is snow in the air, I won't do that.
My 16 came with a pair of rubber plugs for the scuppers. I haven't needed them. However I have only sailed with one other person, and the water in the cockpit was limited to the rear of the footwell.
Al
How much time does it take to rig the 19? I have historically been a trailer sailor, but intend to use the boat for overnight & extended sailing. I also have options to pay for a slip, although I know ultimately this will end up limiting where I sail.
Well it takes the Admiral and I about 90-120 minutes to get the 19 going, but a few things slow us down:
-Trailer extension takes a few more minutes to unhitch, extend, rehitch
-Full battens take longer to insert as they are too long to just leave on and stuff main sail in the cabin
-Harken roller furler takes some extra care to keep from sliding too much on deck, scratching boat or hatch
-An extra halyard for the drifter to untwist and secure
-I remove the boom entirely and store in cabin so I have to rerig the main sheet. Leaving boom in cockpit or A snap shackle end of boom block would save time
-We store motor in truck so I remount and dismount each time
-I mount the anchor before launching in the bow sprit in case I need it if motor won't start (don't ask me how I know this)
-We only rig once of twice a year since we have a slip so we're out of practice each time
-I usually remove all lines to wash them over the winter so while I have re-mounted them before launching, they always get twisted and need tweaked rather than
falling into place naturally if they were left on the boat.
-Boom vang bail can be a little bit of a PITA to mount with it's spacers.
-General checks, rechecks and triple checks
I'm thinking if some of these hindrances were not present and we rigged more frequently and had a better "system" the rig time could be dropped to an hour.
Still that's about twice as long as we could rig the 16 and be underway.
You'll probably want to hear from others on this as we're just one of 624 boats out there and are not trailer sailers :)
Also with any Com-pac, there is an audience affect. We always get people stopping by to admire the boat and want to know more about it.
i think you could rig a 19 in a lot less than 2 hours but you have to plan well and limit your trips for and aft as well as from the ground to the boat as much as possible. i use an "easy up" telescoping mast crutch which helps immensely. the mast on my catalina 18 is heavier i think but i can easily walk it up unassisted. I also stow my outboard and rudder in the truck and have two tongue extensions (a telescoping one on the trailer and a seperate 40" one) but i can have the boat in the water inside of 40 minutes. one hint, don't let anyone talk to you while you are rigging. that will invariably add time. after you get your boat, whichever you choose, practice, practice, and practice your rigging. you may even want to make a written set of rigging steps. whichever boat you choose you will be happy with a com-pac. if i could afford an eclipse i would have one. for now the cat 18 does the job rather nicely and at 1500lbs trailers easily. doesnt have that sweet sheer line though
I checked all the marinas near me and slips are too expensive. I think I'm back to considering the CP16 as my boat. I'll just compromise cabin space for ease of trailering (not having to purchase a heavier tow vehicle) & setting up. If KenJ and others can do it, I can too. I use to backpack & tent camp years ago. I prefer to keep things simple.
I don't think you can go wrong with that plan, MGS. If you feel it's too small you could always save up for an Eclipse and get more space with ease of rigging.
We are very pleased with our CP19, but we have a slip close to home, don't have to rig her often and have her nicely customized.
Oh, please don't forget about paying Bob23's new member fee. You better get the boat soon, I think he charges more for non-Compac owners.
yeah. he stuck it to me. made me drink a pbr
Yea - if you are a camper/backpacker - you won't have any problem sleeping in a 16 :-) - I have thought many times about getting a larger boat - but I always come back to my 16 as it is so simple to sail and trail - on other boat I might consider is a Suncat
Yes, the Suncat is nice. I like that rounded aft cockpit. The price is what stops me though. I believe that the 16 is a good boat for the money. The mark 3 or XL has most if not all the features I'm looking for and only 4" additional draft.